Photo/Courtesy of respondents
On February 25, Pan Xiangli opened his WeChat circle of friends, and for 4 and a half hours, he continuously saw a news item on the Shanghai channel of the People's Daily client - "Pan Xiangli, a deputy to the National People's Congress: It is recommended that the same crime be punished for buying and selling and ending the tragedy of abducting and trafficking women and children". Swiped. The news was viewed more than a million times in a short period of time.
Many people told her, good job. Shame, she said. "A writer, a deputy to the National People's Congress, put forward such a bill, and he got such admiration, and I think there is also a layer of sad background." Pan Xiangli took out his mobile phone and sent me the full text of the bill. This is a few days after the end of the national "two sessions", Pan Xiangli sat in the lobby of a hotel in the east of Beijing, talking about his experience in the past month or so. It's a European-style place, more like Proust's place to eat "Madeleine's little snacks", but the topic is not easy. She will take part in an event about her new book, Classical Spring Water, at a bookstore next to the hotel, one of several in Beijing. She was taking throat lozenges because she was talking too much in a row.
"For the first time, I felt the unbearable weight of the three identities of people's congress deputies, writers, and women." Pan xiangli said. Throughout the afternoon, our interviews revolved around these three identities.
In this just-published book on ancient poetry, Pan Xiangli writes about a story about Xuanzang told by poetry connoisseur Gu Sui. When Xuanzang went to the Western Heavens to learn the scriptures, he fell ill when he saw an eastern earth fan. There are monks who smell it, the Tao, a good amorous monk. Gu Sui commented that if he could not be sick for this one, he would not be able to make a wish to go to the Western Heavens for a Tibetan sutra. Pan cites the story to Li in order to tell the story of "those who are not affectionate and have poor speech". Pan Xiangli is a lover. She shed tears more than once when she was talking about writing bills. She said that she was not emotionally rich, but actually emotionally fragile. She felt that she was "affectionate" in writing bills — unable to stand reading news and materials about abducted women and children ; "stopping etiquette" — expressing her opinions and suggestions in formal and solemn bills.
Is this "seeking kindness and benevolence", or "gentleman is not instrumental"? Pan Xiangli said that for himself, this is to reduce the psychological burden. "I think I'm an intellectual, but I'm an instigator, and I'm not actually suitable to be a deputy to the National People's Congress."
She felt that writing bills was "popularizing the law" and speaking poetry was "popularizing beauty". For both, there is a word for "argument". Writing bills is a "debate" with existing legal provisions and realistic notions. Speaking poetry is a "debate" with scholars and readers who hold different views. She has had this habit since she was a child. Her father, the scholar and critic Pan Xulan, who was writing in the study, would be dragged into the living room by her, where he would argue with her about Zhuge Liang, Du Fu, and Li Hou in a few cups of tea.
When speaking ancient poems, she has a potential defense. For example, Su Dongpo wrote about his friends Wang Dingguo and Rou Nu who returned from exile in Lingnan. Both the master and the servant have the air to transcend the predicament. Regarding this poem, previous generations have commented: "The servant is still like this, let alone the master?" "She was angry. She felt that Su Dongpo was praising women, an independent woman who was not afraid of hardships, not a woman who was a male attacher. She is not afraid of offending anyone, she wants to argue, she believes that the more she argues, the clearer the reason. This is especially true of the provisions of the law on abducted women and children. She believes that the dark stuff won't go away, but "we're going to put a wall of consensus and hold the ugly stuff in the corner."
She originally thought that such a bill or proposal, there will be a lot, do you want to write it yourself? These constantly entangled thoughts made her feel tired. Pan Xiangli worked at Wen Wei Po for 22 years and became the chief editor. In May 2020, he was transferred to the Shanghai Writers Association and was one of the vice chairmen. She is one of two NPC deputies in Shanghai who have the status of a writer, the other being Wang Anyi.
During the Spring Festival, she was ready to write a novel at home that had been conceived, but looking at the news, she couldn't write it, and the novel was never written. Originally planned to consist of ten short stories, there were only nine. "What else to write?" She decided to write the bill. She is good at writing novels, essays, and essays, but writing bills gives her headaches. Bills have three paragraph formats of "cause of action", "case evidence" and "plan", which cannot be quoted or annotated. After the bill was partially published, she said in the circle of friends that people she knew would definitely thank the scholars who provided these views.
Although she has always said that she is a lazy person, she has a certain hardness when she gathers her will. She had no objection to saying she was hermaphrodite. The last chapter of the new book is written about Xin Abandoning Disease. "If you want to relieve the world-weariness and indifference, read Xin and abandon the disease." To break through the exquisite self-interest, read Xin and abandon the disease. Want to vibrate sluggish and bored, read Xin abandon the disease. If you want to cure the loss of qi and blood, weakness and decadence, you must read Xin Ren Disease. "She ended it with that." Nowadays, the world is full of exquisite and self-interested people, reading Su Dongpo and Xin Abandoning Disease, is it okay for the inner universe to be slightly enlarged? "The whole book, the twelve lectures, without Li Qingzhao, is all male. She never considered herself a feminist, and she felt unaware that her gender was the right one. "There's nothing that women have to do."
In her eyes, "Su, Xin" is the highest peak of Song Ci. "Su Dongpo will certainly not shed tears when he talks like I just did." He must be a man who doesn't shed tears easily. Literary and artistic works are the product of the knot of the heart, but Su Dongpo untied the knot while knotting. Su Dongpo is a master of self-forgiveness. He was so wise. "She said she was really crying and laughing, very silly.
A friend discussed Song Ci with her and said that he didn't like Su and Xin. Pan Xiangli said to him, then I will go back and write a "letter of renunciation with so-and-so". Even Su and Xin don't like it, can they still say that they like Song Ci? Pan xiangli said that this made her angry, and she felt that she had reached the extreme of indignation. Now, she felt that it was not enough, "Better than the kind of person who says that the village of not letting a single stick buy a daughter-in-law will be destroyed." ”
She doesn't like to write too directly, and there is only one mention of the epidemic in the book. When I wrote this book, it was exactly two years of the epidemic. "Ouyang Xiu wrote, 'I was once a guest of Luoyang flowers, and although the wildflowers were late, they didn't have to be whisked.'" It is enough to have the beauty of the heart, which is the source of strength for a lifetime. Pan Xiangli said that this was "the song that fell generously."
"There really is a five-star hotel there, no need to go to work, let you stay for a lifetime, you can't stay. The essence of life is time, time flows non-stop, we should not be too attached to the present, nor can we be too indulgent in our emotions. Lost or not, can't think about it, time has passed, a bit of a pity, this is what I only want to understand in middle age. Pan Xiangli said, "You don't know what tomorrow will be like, what you want to do, do it now." ”
On April 20, 2021, police in Meizhou, Guangdong Province, rescued an abducted 9-month-old baby. The next day, the baby returned to the arms of his family Photo/Guangdong Provincial Public Security Department
People: Southern People Weekly Pan: Pan Xiangli
NPC Deputies: A solemn channel of voice
Person: As a deputy to the NPC at the "two sessions," what motions and suggestions have you put forward?
Pan: I have a Bill on Amending the Criminal Code for the Crime of Abduction and Trafficking in Women and Children. There are also two suggestions: one is the "Proposal on Setting Up a "Gap Year" for Colleges and Universities. After the college entrance examination, many people simply did not have time to stop and think about where I had talent, what I really liked, and when I went out of college, I didn't choose a way to find a job. Give them a "gap year", pause a little, sober up, face the real society, and see what they are suitable for; the other is "It is recommended to strengthen the copyright protection of "script killing" and promote the healthy and benign development of the market." We should regard the author of the "script killing" as part of the writer, and the rights and interests of the "script killing" author should be protected.
People: The bill on amending the crime of abduction and trafficking in women and children in the Criminal Law is of greatest concern to everyone.
Pan: Some time ago, I was reading the materials of abducted women and children day and night, and I couldn't bear it and couldn't write anything. I'm not the only one, but a lot of writers can't write anything anymore. I don't know much about writing skillfully. I really mobilized all my feelings to write something, otherwise it would be a dry water in Baotu Spring. I can't pass off tap water as spring water.
I'm a writer, I'm a woman, I can't stand it, and I'm a deputy to the National People's Congress. I don't think I'm suitable to be a deputy to the National People's Congress, and there are many reasons why I' I am a person who is poetic when I am in a good state, decadent when I am not in a good state, hiding at home, no one sees, and the curtains have to be pulled up. How is such a person suitable for such a hard work that requires super rationality? I think npc deputies are a solemn job. With regard to the crime of abducting and trafficking in women and children, I consider taking a formal channel, and there is no stronger place than the platform of people's congress deputies.
Man: Is there a process of convincing yourself?
Pan: Although everyone does not have high evaluations and expectations for writers now, I still regard myself as a reader and an intellectual. These things will bring you a lot of silent and invisible pressure. Since you say that you are an intellectual, can you relieve yourself of the burden of conscience? This kind of burden, we will certainly carry for many, many years. Not necessarily these sisters were rescued and we could be unloaded, probably still, but I felt that I could alleviate it a little so that I could resume other work.
I thought, I have to write. When I wrote, I had to look at the case first, and I watched it for three days and cried several times. These cases, you let me see for a year, will not be able to stand. I felt that I could not read any more, so I chose a few of the most typical cases and began to write. I couldn't stop writing it at all, and my tears were rushing. For the past two and a half days, I haven't even touched the door where the bill was written. I knew it wouldn't work, so I overridden it. The first step is to read articles by legal professionals, such as jurist Wang Xizin. The more I read such articles, the better I am. The legal profession is very professional and very helpful to me.
People: What legal opinions do you see?
Pan: In a nutshell, three opinions. One of the most conservative opinions is not to change the criminal law, and there is nothing wrong with the current law, only a matter of implementation. Buyers are now sentenced to a maximum of three years, mostly about one year. But there are many provisions that can be added, such as rape, unlawful restriction of personal freedom, injury, insult, etc., which can be added upwards, to more than twenty years.
The second opinion is to change it to the same crime as buying and selling. Sentences are five years, up to the death penalty. Because of such a common crime, the punishment for both sides is as severe as buying and selling guns and drugs. There is only trafficking in children and women, and there is a big difference between the two sides.
The third is to buy and sell the same crime, and raise the starting point. The sentence is twenty years. This is the law of severe punishment. Unforgivable sins, violations of human rights, destruction of families, etc. I agreed with the reason, but twenty years to the death penalty, which I did not adopt. While it may seem more relieving, we have to consider the legacy of history and the space to rescue trapped women and children. I was very cautious when I wrote bills.
Man: What is the idea of the whole motion?
Pan: First, we cannot compromise with the ugly customs, we cannot compromise with the interests of reproduction, we must be guilty of the same crime, and we should be sentenced from five years. Secondly, it is not just the protection of women and children, not the protection of vulnerable groups, it is the constitutional guarantee of basic human rights. Personal safety, personal freedom and human dignity are the core interests of a social community. I hate the argument that I wrote a lot of clauses and dragged on the back – women and children need to be protected. That's not true. That is human rights. Could it be that a woman or a child is abducted and sold and suffers terrible losses only by the woman and the child herself? Isn't there that father, that husband, that boyfriend, that brother? Aren't there frightened relatives and neighbors? Some people will say, what about those bare sticks? If you don't sympathize with them, they're miserable. Can't marry a daughter-in-law for a lifetime, or the village disappears? My answer is that there can be no preferential gender. There is no such underlying logic that women cannot be made to pay for anyone's interests, customs and prejudices anywhere.
Man: How did you amend the bill?
Pan: When I wrote the second draft, I was much calmer. The first drafts were all case studies. In the second draft, I added a lot of opinions from the legal profession. According to the custom of writers respecting copyright, I will write, "As Professor Wang Xizin said", double quotation marks open, double quotation marks off, clear and clear. I handed over the bill, and the Shanghai Municipal People's Congress staff said that this would not work, and that the bill could not quote others. I asked the professionals of the Municipal People's Congress to help, made adjustments, and wrote for ten days.
Person: What about after the bill is submitted?
Pan: The bill needs to be supported by 30 representatives of the same delegation. Our Shanghai delegation is relatively small, and there are dozens of DEPUTies to the National People's Congress directly under the central government, and it is quite difficult to support the proposal. Moreover, it is not possible to solicit votes across groups.
I received 30 people's support, including Mr. Wang Anyi. Because some people are saying that writers don't speak up, I have been helping people explain everywhere in the past two days. I said, no, no, no, don't say so, I said our Shanghai delegation, teacher Wang Anyi agreed. Everyone has their own way. If you look at my circle of friends those days, you will also feel like I am a dead person: What is Pan Xiangli doing? Isn't she angry? Don't say that. Maybe someone uses works to reflect. Literature has always been behind the palace. It's not surprising that you can't ask a writer to be on the front lines like a journalist. This is how I understand my peers that most writers are rich in heart and beautiful in spirit, and they cannot simply predict how they will react to everything in the world and when they will react.
Man: What is the process of obtaining support?
Pan: We had a pre-departure meeting in Shanghai. In the past, it was a meeting in Beijing to collect joint proposals, and it was necessary to go up and give a speech. I've spoken, and I'm nervous. One by one, go up and talk, and each person will talk for a few minutes. Others say that when I spell fast, Pan Xiangli is very dominant, because I speak quickly.
Now there is an epidemic, and this link has been cancelled. In order to prevent the epidemic, we changed it to soliciting signatures at the pre-departure meeting. Meetings in a large conference room. People will flip through the motions. A formal form with the name of the motion, and the person who supports it will write down their name and number, as well as contact information and address. The relevant ministries will also reply to the representatives who support the proposal. On that day, I successfully recruited more than 30 representatives to sign the joint signature.
Person: What kind of feedback have you received since your bill was partially published in the media?
Pan: I'm in a much better mood. Stress comes from two parts: one part is to say that you don't have to do it. The authorities will take care of it, you don't have to shout there; the second kind of pressure comes from friends who are more idealistic than I am. They say I'm not happy at all. They felt that they should "be sentenced from 20 years onwards, and try to be sentenced to death." As long as you sell it and buy it, you will be punished for several crimes at the same time, and all of them will be severe and fast. There is also a saying that you are a legal layman in the end. You talk so much about the Constitution, human rights, gender priorities, why do you talk about this, your weaknesses as a writer are all exposed, you have no power at all.
People who say that I am adding to the chaos, I will say, see the wisdom, I think I am helping. People who say that I am not addicted to writing, I said, don't need you to do too difficult things, you send me a circle of friends to see, let me refer to the reference. Calling me a layman, I said, I'm a legal literate. When I start with the Constitution, I don't talk about emotions, I don't want to vent my emotions. My bill is very rationally written, and I think it's better than dry scolding.
Writer: Something that really moves people
Person: What are the characteristics of this book about ancient poetry, "Classical Spring Water", compared with your previous book?
Pan: I wrote this book, there is an advantage, I have done a lot of homework behind my back, there are a lot of subtexts, but I don't have to write it all, I must highlight the sharpest and most shining things on the iceberg, and write out my most sincere things. I think the real thing is touching.
People: After writing for so many years, how to evaluate yourself in terms of writing?
Pan: I think I'm a very good person in terms of understanding, and my comprehension is very good, which has nothing to do with the profession. I dare to say, there is no twisting and pinching. For example, my affirmation of Liu Yuxi in this book, many people dare not say. I said that his insight into nostalgic poetry surpassed du fu's. Many people feel that Du Fu's status cannot be shaken. I said, I am not a scholar of this profession, I am the willfulness of a writer. As a scholar, you will consider his teacher, you will consider his teacher's teacher, you will consider the position of your brother, and you will consider whether your sister will run out of food. Probably because of his point of view, a topic will be ruined, and a doctoral dissertation will not pass. I don't have to think about it, I'm a writer, I don't have to worry about that.
Man: How is it different to write a novel?
Pan: I write novels very subtly, and it is not fun to point out and break. But in the novel, I will also push the protagonist. I wrote a novel called "Old Love", where a man faced the difficult situation of his ex-girlfriend, anxious and sympathetic, and did not know what to do. As a novelist, I pushed him, pushed him half a step that he didn't express.
Man: In reality, does this "one" exist?
Pan: If I knew, I would push too. Don't be so cowardly, don't think so much, people are going to die, there's nothing to be afraid of. Life is full of twists and turns, full of unknowns, don't think so much. Like a person to express, when you want to get married, the heart will act. You think too much, the front is a horse Flat River? Walking in the flowers, walking on the velvet carpet? This is ridiculous. I'm just not so optimistic about life. I'm a pessimist, so I'm very enthusiastic and very supportive of everyone a lot of the time. Friends want to get married, I will say knot, bless you. Want to get a divorce, leave. That's the kind of person I am. He/she wants a divorce, why not support it. Support, I hope he/she has a second spring, no, the third spring. Bravely go to the knot, to admit it. It's time to slap you in the face to receive it, to take that shot, and to be true to your heart.
People: Some commentators say that your work doesn't seem to be strong enough.
Pan: Some people say that the subject matter I write is a little narrower, always writing about urban and white-collar workers, and they are some people whose livelihood is not a problem, saying that I rarely write about survival and struggle. I think it's a matter of interest, not that I don't know, not that I can't write. It's aesthetic taste, it's another part of the job, it's artistic work. A writer does not dare to insist on his own tastes, and what kind of writer to be.
If I lack a bit of strength, it's hard to argue, but it also contains a long-standing stereotype of urban literature. I think that powerful literary works that shake people, and works with aesthetic feelings that moisturize people are all valuable. Rhythmic gymnastics can't be judged by weightlifting standards, right?
Women: I'm not a feminist
Man: In this new book, you write about Su Dongpo's praise for Rou Nu.
Pan: In the appreciation of ancient poetry, sometimes women are not fairly evaluated and appreciated. Of course I'm upset. Countless women are like this. In the end, they are praised, and they are just an image of gentle and frugality who is ready to sacrifice for men. But I think the beauty written by Su Dongpo is really a great beauty, and it is not divided into men and women. He felt that Jono was very beautiful, and he admired this woman and wrote her very highly. In my book, it is said that the words he used on the rouner were usually used to praise the noble scholars. Su Dongpo was originally a scholar, and he could use the word of praise for a scholar to a woman, which was a great compliment. You are my friend, you are my peer. I think that when Su Dongpo saw Wang Dingguo and Rou Nu, he met two friends and two confidants. Su Dongpo regarded Rou Nu as an independent person, not a vassal of Wang Dingguo. It's not that you're very good, you're loyal, and you're suffering with him. That's not what it means. You're amazing, and I'm giving you a thumbs up, in person. I'm so happy, I'm your fellow traveler, and that's how I survived. I think that's the subtext, isn't it? Su Dongpo also wrote a preface in front of the word, I am afraid that you will not understand.
Su Dongpo has always been equal to women. The wives of many of his friends and disciples admired him and were his fans. When Su Dongpo was exiled, he would even get clothes made for him by his disciple's wife. He talks to people whose wives will hide behind screens and listen all the time, and then tell their husbands that they must follow him. These people are not ordinary "star chasers", they must feel that he is a kind of true benevolent person, very tolerant and elegant, with a simple view of gender equality.
Pan Xiangli (right) at the book launch
People: Su Dongpo seems to have some kind of modern consciousness in him.
Pan: Yes. That's the kind of person he is. He is a very "sensible" person. He didn't have logic, he didn't divide men first, and then divide the elegance among men, the high and low, the points were interesting and boring, he wasn't like this, he felt that people were people. For example, when he went to Danzhou, Hainan, he didn't speak the language, and he would also chat with the woodcutters of the Li ethnic group. Su Dongpo is a person who is common to everyone.
People: From childhood to adulthood, has your feminine consciousness changed?
Pan: No. The rose-colored part is still rose-colored, but limited to a small range. Realistic things, wind knives and frost swords, chai rice oil and salt have all been experienced and understood. There's a lot of pain, there's a lot of trials, but that's not to say, I didn't have a feminine consciousness before, and now all of a sudden there is.
Man: Are you a feminist?
Pan: Never. I think that's how you should be human. I feel lucky that this normal thing hasn't been crushed. I have not had a process of being destroyed and crushed, and I have always been in a state of relatively fullness of self. Some people's lives are very unfair to her, crushing her, and then she slowly repairs. I wasn't particularly aware of gender. I didn't take advantage of me because I was a woman, nor did I lose anything because I was a woman. Some feminists are anti-men – men don't have a good thing. I've never thought of it that way. In my book, you find that there is none, it is all men. There is no Li Qingzhao. I shouldn't have been able to say anything interesting about her, so I won't write about it. I think she can do it, and Jonu has done it. In fact, she was luckier than Jono, she was born in that kind of family, married to such a person, she could be a little older. Although she also has "born as a master, died as a ghost male." So far thinking about Xiang Yu, refusing to cross Jiangdong" such a sentence, others say that this person is very masculine, I think it is just this one, can it be a little bigger? She was still small. She did it to the extreme in a small way. But as far as this extreme is concerned, there is Zhou Bangyan.
Man: The male author you like is intellectual?
Pan: I like scholars, I like people with great temperament.