Pan Xiangli: Read ancient poems with Gu Panshengzi's eyes

Writer Pan Xiangli.

Interviewing Pan Xiangli in Beijing is the mid-spring season. She is dressed in a plain and neat outfit, and she talks very well. Ancient poetry has long been integrated in her veins, and when it comes to Su Dongpo, Yan Jidao, Du Fu, and Xin Qijie, her eyes are sparkling, with drowning, sincerity and fanaticism, lest the other party not appreciate the wonders of her poetry and its people - in Pan Xiangli's own words: "I am 'pushing'. ”

In the spring of March, Pan Xiangli's new book "Classical Spring Water: Twelve Lectures on Pan Xiangli's Ancient Poetry" was published by the People's Literature Publishing House. This is the third work written by Pan Xiangli to appreciate ancient poetry after "Looking at Poetry Is Not Clear" and "Meibian News: Pan Xiangli Reads Ancient Poems".

Pan Xiangli's father, Pan Xulan, was a doctoral supervisor at Fudan University, a famous critic and essayist. Influenced by her father, Pan Xiangli was immersed in the world of classical poetry from an early age, and the various versions of the poetry collection in the family were the closest friends in her life. They were silent and ironed, accompanying her through the ups and downs of life, and Pan Xiangli said: "These books have the shadow of my laughter, the shadow of my tears." Every time I picked it up like an old friend meeting. I never thought I was reading, that's how I was living my life. ”

Ancient poems silently water her life, and her understanding of poetry is closely intertwined with life experience. Rather than saying that Pan xiangli reads poetry, Mo Ruo says that she is reading people, reading about the heterogeneous human nature, reading about the breadth of time and the limitations of life, and the unknowable and irresistible fate. Thousands of years later, Du Fu's "Gift to the Eight Virgins" still makes people feel like ice charcoal, and Xin's "shoot the railing all over, no one will, and climb the landing" still resounds with a great sigh of ambition, as the literary critic Li Jingze said, Pan Xiangli "actually put her life, put her emotions into it to re-read, reinterpret, and re-make these poems our own." ”

She also especially admired Gu Sui, with a pious mood, and regarded herself as a primary school student who "audited" in the corridor outside Gu Sui's classroom. Because Gu Sui is funny and affectionate. "When he looks at life, his eyes are full of hope. He looked at the ancient poetry with these eyes, and what he saw was the lively ancients. ”

So naturally, Pan Xiangli achieved "poetry for life". She inherited Gu Sui's eyes, saw Gu Sui's "indispensable generalization" like a soldier, and also saw his "extremely delicate and extremely feminine" and "deeply affectionate and soul-sucking"; she saw Su Dongpo's vast and mighty talent "come out of nowhere"; she also saw that he "could hardly have affectionate words" and "was good at knotting and understanding"; she saw Lu You's "sincere feelings" and "a lot of thoughts in his heart"; and she also saw Yan Jidao's extraordinary posture of pursuing physical and mental freedom and going to the end.

It seems that every kind of joy and sorrow in life, compulsion and freedom, liveliness and loneliness, can go to the ancients to seek verification. And these words, these interpretations, and these feelings she wrote are indeed like the vast and vague spring water, so lively, new, and broad, and breed a moving atmosphere in the landscape of contemporary people's hearts. Pan Xiangli was proud to have "saved a large number of students who had been demoralized by the Language teacher", and readers often confided in her the inexplicable reasons for reading. But she is also self-absorbed, like a self-conscious poet under a tree on the side of the road, and people inadvertently "walk by and look at it, and they will laugh or cry."

They are like sheep fat jade, which I have plated out of the "pulp"

Nandu: There are many works on the market about the interpretation of ancient poetry, what drives you to write a book that introduces ancient poetry? What do you think is special about your writing about classical poetry?

Pan Xiangli: Many of the studies on poetry are well written. But why study? I am a contemporary urbanite, and my foothold, the "burst point" or "flash point" that I am touched by poetry, is more resonant with today's people. It is difficult for a person in the late Qing Dynasty to have so much resonance with the people we have today.

I have a lot of advantages. First of all, because of my family background, I have been immersed in ancient poetry since I was a child. Second, because of my professional background, I came from a master's degree in literature. Third, I am a novelist. Fourth, my daily life is inseparable from ancient poetry. I can only go a day without reading ancient poems, not for an entire week. For example, Su Dongpo's poetry collection has more than a dozen books in our family. There are about seven or eight copies of Xin Abandoned Disease. "Dream of the Red Chamber" we have about nine sets in our family. When I'm happy, I take a set out and turn it over, and turn to which page is which page. I don't really deliberately study the versions, they are a bunch of good friends to me, get along when I get the chance, and say a few words.

I have reached this level with these books: they know how many years I have had setbacks, how many years I am very unconfident, how many years I have been emotionally battered, how many years I have been sick, how to hold on to the disease when I am sick, how to tears. These books have the shadow of my laughter, the shadow of my tears. Every time I picked it up like an old friend meeting. I never thought I was reading, that's how I was living my life.

Or else? How can you always find such a high and wonderful person in your life? Like this for thousands of years, the treasures of our Chinese nation are absolutely unattainable. They are like mutton fat jade, after thousands of years of washing, more and more polished. And I've been discing it for decades, and it's been "wrapped up" by me. And then I proudly said to everyone, you see, how beautiful it is.

Nandu: You quote a lot of Gu Sui's interpretation of ancient poetry in the book "Classical Spring Water". Why do you particularly appreciate Gu Sui?

Pan Xiangli: Gu Sui is Ye Jiaying's teacher. He is the scholar I most admire for studying ancient poetry. Gu Sui himself is an interesting person, he is funny, he is affectionate. Amorous does not mean that he wants to hook up when he sees a good-looking woman, but when he looks at life, his eyes are gu pansheng. He looked at the ancient poetry with these eyes, and what he saw was the lively ancients.

He talked about Su Dongpo, Xin Shuyi, Tao Yuanming, and even Wang Ji, a very unknown poet in the Tang Dynasty, all of whom spoke very, very well. Ye Jiaying recorded his lecture notes " Ancient Chinese Poetry "Feelings", which I read more than a dozen times. Even if you don't want to study ancient poetry, but he talks about life from aesthetics to feelings, you should still read it. Gu Suiyi stomped his feet not as a scholar, but as a life teacher.

For example, he talked about land travel. Lu You is not very "poetic", but Gu Sui especially likes Lu You. He felt that Lu You was "sincere and sincere, with a whip and a trace, and a slap of blood." So Lu You and we are in the same group, he is really in love, really painful. For many experts, the truth of life is disconnected from the beauty of poetry. In fact, everyone wants to live with poetry, but it is difficult to integrate the two into one. In this regard, I have a great affection for Mr. Gu Sui. To me, his greatness is no less than that of Cao Xueqin.

Nandu: You place a special emphasis on the "emotional drive" of writing in your book, which is rare among contemporary writers and critics alike. The contemporary literary world seems to be advocating a kind of "technocraticism"?

Pan Xiangli: Gu Sui's lecture, there is a section that says that Du Fu's tempering is touching, while Huang Tingjian and Yang Wanli are not moving, "Gai qi's starting point is reason, but it is to suppress feelings." Ye Jiaying had a confrontation when taking notes, she said: "Ying thinks that the feelings are not enough at all." "I don't think a lot of times it's a matter of skill. Now many of the tricks that teach people to write are to whitewash the canal. No one thinks about where the source of the water is, and whether the amount of water is enough. If the amount of water is enough, as Su Dongpo said, "Wuwen is like the source of Wanhu Spring, and it can be produced by any place,...... Always do what you should do, and stop at what you should not stop."

When we teach people to write, we often teach others to dig water channels, you have to dig like this, you have to dig like that, do you have the desire to express? I used to be an editor, and I've been exposed to a lot of these kinds of articles that don't have enough internal drive at first glance. You are a skilled worker, I know, the canal is well dug, but the water is very weak and reluctant to come.

In the book "Classical Spring Water", I think my feelings and hair generation associations are very abundant. When I write, I often stop and think, should this sentence be added, will it affect the tone? Every time I go to a place, I face a lot of forks in the road, I have to restrain myself, think about it, and don't go too far and not come back. I am like a tree, not a branch blossoming a flower, but a tree full of flowers. I have to cut it myself, otherwise it won't look good.

In addition, this time I was not at all "Tu Poor Dagger See", but at the beginning I made up my mind to rush up with a dangling dagger, all of which were my own things, happy and concise. Even my favorite Mr. Gu Sui, I will say, "I stand Ye Jiaying in this sentence."

We need some people who "can't think straight"

Nandu: In this book, you put your fathers, teachers, and even masters on an equal footing. For example, do you think that Su Dongpo's poems are "not only good in every capital, but also those that are quite famous and sometimes not artistically superior"...

Pan Xiangli: The characteristic of Su Dongpo is that his feelings are not strong enough, and he is too easy to relieve while knotting. Too wise, it will be less emotionally intense works. But Po Xian must have one, he is like religion to us Chinese, and everyone can find sustenance and comfort in him. But it is not okay for poets to become all Po Immortals, we still need people like Xin Renjie and Lu You, people who "can't think", people who step on the same land as us, people who die, people who are stubborn, he will have pain, there will be thoughts, there will be impulses to hit the wall, there is mud on this ground, not beautiful, but we have to stand on this ground, we will love him like this.

Nandu: So what about Du Fu, and what kind of du Fu belongs to?

Pan Xiangli: Du Fu was with us. But the advantage of Du Fu is that he has everything, and he is not particularly extreme at any pole. His emotional genealogy is relatively well developed. Therefore, I agree with Liang Qichao saying that he is a "love saint", this "love saint" is not in the love of men and women, he has all kinds of feelings, love the country, love his wife, love his friends, and love the bottom. Everyone he would worry about. A neighbor had a woman who went to beat people's dates, and he wrote a poem to the people who moved into his original home, "In front of the church, the jujube is the neighbor of the west, and there is no food and no children." Wouldn't it be better to be poor than to have this? Only fear turns to kissing. ”

If it wasn't for the war, so poor that there was no way, how could she come to beat your dates? He really loved his neighbors. Everything in his daily field is documented. In our daily lives, we will look down on such people and steal the fruit trees of our neighbors, but Du Fu can understand a lot of helplessness in this world. I studied abroad at my own expense, just paid the rent, had to pay the tuition, and in Tokyo, I didn't spend a penny on the family. With this experience, I think I suddenly understood that Du Fu was really a gentleman, a hot sausage in the ancient way.

Some of Du Fu's poems are not so beautiful and trivial. If I had been asked to compile Du Fu's poems when I was young, many poems might have been screened out, and I would have left them now, and I would have written annotations like this. "Classical Spring Water" is actually my poetry selection first. The words in the book are my dense annotations, which pour out my feelings, my tastes, my outlook on life, and my life experience.

Nandu: Have you considered writing a monograph on poets?

Pan Xiangli: I was invited to write about Li Shangyin and Li Qingzhao. First of all, I will not write a monograph.

I'm a professional writer, and I'm going back to writing novels. I'm a fan of poetry. I can't faint because I sang a few times as a ticket holder and everyone applauded desperately. I have to step down and go back to my business.

Written by: Nandu reporter Huang Qian