Zhang Zhimin and Fang Hui
Zhang Zhimin Is a former president of Shandong Academy of Arts. Vice President of The Chinese Painting Society, Director of the China Artists Association, Researcher of the National Academy of Painting of China, Honorary Chairman of the Shandong Artists Association, Professor and Doctoral Supervisor.
Fang Hui Doctor of Fine Arts of China Academy of Art, Associate Research Librarian of Fine Arts Research Institute of Shandong Academy of Arts, Vice President of Zhejiang Huang Binhong Painting Institute, Landscape Painter.
Interview time: April 9, 2022,
Interview location: Shandong Jinan No. 9 Bing Station Studio
Fang Hui: Hello Teacher Zhang, Mr. Huang Binhong is the greatest master of landscape painting of the 20th century, and his art has had an important and lasting influence on the Chinese painting world since the 1980s. Like Li Keyan, Zhang Tong, Chen Zizhuang and Lai Shaoqi in the field of landscape painting, Lin Sanzhi in the field of calligraphy, Pan Tianshou in the field of flower and bird painting, Wang Shiqing and Wang Bomin in the field of art history, and Shi Gufeng in the field of appraisal have all been taught by Huang Binhong. However, at present, many friends who study landscape painting are not clear about the path of studying Huang Binhong's landscape painting, and it is difficult to interpret his art. As a contemporary landscape painter who integrates the north and the south, can you tell us about the topic of "how to understand Huang Binhong's landscape painting", so that friends can have a way to study and study the master?
Zhang Zhimin: Okay, to understand Huang Binhong, I first suggest that friends who paint landscapes should start with Mr. Lu Yushao's "Law" and then pay attention to Huang Binhong at the same time. Because this is like learning any industry, we must first pass the technical threshold, the industry without the technical threshold is definitely a low-level industry, the same is true for Chinese painting, we must first do the pen and ink method. Lu Lao's "pen and pen have a method", and the next pen pays special attention to "lifting and pressing the turning point", and the three parts of the pen tip, the pen belly, and the pen root are well used, and they are the masters of the "law". I think that in the 20th century, Lu Lao's landscape painting was the first of the "law", he never did special techniques in painting, completely relying on pen and ink to express the taste of landscape painting, and also expressed his temperament and realm. In 1985, when I was studying at the Zhejiang Academy of Fine Arts, Lu Lao once told me that his young friend Han Tianheng once suggested to him that Lu Lao should plan his artistic style in stages of fifty years, keep the tradition fifty years ago, and try to innovate and try new techniques fifty years later, abandoning the past. Later, we saw that Lu Lao did have many ways to try innovation in his later years, but for the modern spirit of Chinese painting, there is no doubt that Huang Binhong stood on a higher realm.
Watching Huang Binhong's paintings will make us forget the pen and ink techniques and feel the rhythm of nature's life and the self-confidence of national culture. I think it's like a conversation between Zen Dharma Guru and Erzu Huike, Hui ke kneeling in the snow and asking Dharma to help him feel at ease, Dharma said, "You take your heart, I will give you peace!" "Hui Ke is confused, where is the heart?" Suddenly there was an epiphany. Huang Binhong's painting is like this Zen method of mind, it "settles" our Chinese heart, "settles" the soul of the nation, and the Chinese painting returns to itself, rather than like a surgical operation, cutting open the chest, removing the heart, and then installing it back. Therefore, whether you learn Huang Binhong's painting method or not, any artist will have a harvest as long as he flips through his album, of course, people with different life experiences will have different gains. Huang Binhong's return of landscape painting to the dialogue with nature and the spirit of heaven and earth is his greatest contribution, Huang Binhong shows the realm of things, but also the most important thing in Chinese painting, I think this is what Lu Lao lacks.
Works by Zhang Zhimin
Fang Hui: Lu Lao is 44 years younger than Huang Binhong, and is the disciple of Huang Binhong's contemporaries, Wang Tongyu and Feng Chaoran, and I remember that Huang Binhong had a free talk with Lu Lao in Shanghai in his later years, probably in the early 50s, both of them were very happy, and Lu Lao had great respect for Huang Lao. Later, someone asked Huang Binhong, how did Lu Yushao's understanding? Huang Binhong praised Lu Lao as "a genius and considerable scholar", but did not praise his "experience".
Zhang Zhimin: As a painter, these two masters must learn everything, and there should be two states in their lives, one is to constantly study the "Fa", the other is to experiment freely, and constantly find the emotion of dialogue between the self and nature.
But it is not right for our theorists today to take some modern thinking and methods to make random comparisons, because for culture, each has its own good, Western art has Western art, Chinese art has Chinese art, and the evaluation system and standards are different, all of which are irreplaceable. As the saying goes, "Wen has no first, Wu has no second"! Mr. Lu Yushao's good is different from Huang Binhong's good, because their understanding and pursuit of art are different. If you make random comparisons, it is often easy to distort some of the characteristics of Chinese culture itself. All artistic concepts are derived from different cultural concepts, and the differences of their respective cultures should be preserved, and we often confuse these differences today, which is a big problem, and some people also like to compare Li Kuchan and Pan Tianshou, and compare Picasso and Qi Baishi to score high, which is all laymen.
Fang Hui: We are influenced by some secularities, often ignoring the elements of culture and preferring to argue more about phenomena and styles, which will lead to the confusion of our current art theory evaluation system, so the public will lack the ability to appreciate Chinese painting.
Zhang Zhimin: Lu Lao's usual dress is very exquisite, Shanghainese are too smart, go out either shirt or tie. Although Huang Binhong is also a southerner, he understands the culture of the north, has lived in Beijing for a long time, he paints a lot of faces, many states, sometimes like Balzac wrapped in pajamas walking back and forth in the courtyard thinking about his literature, his studio is also messy, but the picture is very orderly and lawly. We Shandong people like Ghost Guzi, Lao Zhuang, Mo Jia, and some heroes who perform heroic deeds in "Water Margin", drinking wine and eating meat, simple and free, it is not Lu Lao's character. Lu Lao's painting often sits, with a wolf or a small brush dipped in water and then try a few times and then dip some ink, the center of the pen begins to outline, there are pushes and setbacks, pay great attention to the thick and light changes in a line, the ink is dry on the momentum of a few times, or sometimes just like the sketch tone of the random rubbing a few times, after wiping and then suddenly turning the pen to outline, the ink on the pen has again, become the outline of the thirsty pen. Lu Lao is a stroke of calligraphy, sometimes sketching a piece is very orderly, not sloppy, splashing ink dot dyeing is also a pen and brush method, calm and painful. If an unexpected piece of black suddenly appeared, he would feel something was wrong. Huang Binhong's painting is complicated, he is deliberately confused about the picture, what brushwork is mixed in, if you accidentally suddenly appear a piece of black ink, he also has a way, or use water to open, or use the pen to open, the method is more casual.
Works by Zhang Zhimin
Fang Hui: You said before that painters in the north pay more attention to the overall sense of the picture and pay less attention to particularly subtle changes.
Zhang Zhimin: Yes, this is the difference between the north and the south style, the pen and ink changes in the northern line are less, but the overall sense is better, focusing on the big momentum. But sometimes I look at the calmness and caution of Lu Lao's pen is not exactly the concept of "cherishing ink like gold", but the same as playing Go, it is in the cloth chess pieces, doing the overall consideration, the pen and pen hair, especially the point, the pen is more and more dry, the point is cang, the point is spicy, the ink is still gone, and it is forced to rub it somewhere else, break it, and we all don't pay much attention to these methods. Lu Lao's pen is very much like fighting and playing chess, he first finds the corners, and then thinks about how to attack to eat the other side, the warriors can't fight in a line, they have to be disconnected, and they can't let the other party eat. I remember that in the past, some people in the society criticized Liu Jijian's paintings in Tianjin, and he was one of the most popular painters in the Chinese painting world. At a lecture in Beijing, Liu Jiji deliberately asked him, how to compose a painting? This is an important academic issue, the purpose is also to provoke, not easy to talk about, as a result, Liu Jijian said a sentence "occupy a corner", and will not say it again. This is a pun, understand that the secret of whether it is landscape or flower and bird composition is to occupy the corners in order to break through, and his other meaning is that no matter which style has its own status and position, it cannot be denied.
Although Mr. Tong Zhongtao uses Li Keyan's pen and ink method, the rubbing is also used very well, and he often writes a piece of backhand and suddenly falls! But in a piece, there are suddenly real objects such as bamboo forests and houses, so these rubbed virtual pens are very important, there is no waste of pen and ink, and I think there is still the influence of Lu Lao.
Works by Fang Hui
Fang Hui: Yesterday I saw that Huang Binhong had an article on calligraphy and painting with the example of Go, and he said that the blank space of the chess piece layout should be a "uneven arc triangle", which is the same as the "cloth white" of calligraphy and painting, which occupies the position, and the blank space is full of living qi. A lot of historical materials say that Lin Biao commanded the PLA to fight in a group of three, with an attack, two assists, and a formation of "uneven arc triangle" to move the offensive and assist defense, which is both stable and flexible, so that in the storm attack will reduce a large number of casualties due to machine gun strafing, which is a scientific and effective attack, which is the method you said.
Zhang Zhimin: Huang Binhong's Go game may also be playing very well, and I am also learning Go.
Fang Hui: Yes, his friend Guo Xuchu is a master of Go, and they often discuss. Huang Binhong once wrote an article entitled "Yi Tong", which specifically discussed the problem of the commonality between calligraphy and painting and Go, and he said that black and white chess pieces are the ink thinking of Chinese painting that attaches importance to "inner beauty", which is "seen by the law", and the pieces are virtually formed into "uneven arc triangles" for the sake of living eyes.
Zhang Zhimin: When a painter reaches a certain age, he must study other studies, poetry, seal engraving, Zhou Yi, Go, etc. should be studied, do not just keep a routine of painting, the brain must be alive, and the knowledge should be comprehensive.
Works by Fang Hui
Fang Hui: In the past few days, I have watched a passage of Huang Binhong talking about taijitu, which probably means that taijitu is not a very mysterious thing, and the ancients found tadpoles and shrimp toads swimming in the water, circling and contending with each other in accordance with the ancient "I Ching" and abstracted taijitu, he said that this is the ancient calligraphy "counting white when black" is the recipe, not profound.
Zhang Zhimin: Yes! This is why Huang Binhong combines the matter of painting with the laws of nature in heaven and earth, so I think Huang Binhong's contribution to the history of Chinese painting is particularly great, because people with a sense of life and a realm will understand that he likes him, but those who are particularly untalented cannot do it. In that year, when Emperor Wu of Liang greeted Dharma, he asked Dharma, I have built so many temples, is there any merit? Dharma said you have no merit, Emperor Liangwu was very unhappy, he did not understand, he did not understand, he did merit, not merit, Dharma then lost interest in communication with him, came to the Northern Shaolin Temple alone.
Fang Hui: Mr. Hu Shi believes that in the era of Emperor Liangwu, before the arrival of Dharma, the formalism of Chinese Buddhism was already very serious, and it was especially necessary for Zen Buddhism to break it. Emperor Wu of Liang often led officials to strictly check the time and rest of "not eating at noon", and could not make a mistake for a minute, but did not study the buddhist spirit. But also because of love, Emperor Wu of Liang also made a lot of cultural contributions, he was the earliest scholar in ancient times to collect and study epigraphy, he sorted out 120 volumes of golden stone evidence, although it was lost in the war, but he was after all a pioneer, Huang Binhong is also taking this academic route, borrowing the spirit of studying Chinese culture through the study of gold stone evidence.
Zhang Zhimin: These allusions in Zen Buddhism are very important, and they should be carefully pondered and not easily slid over, so that we can understand Huang Binhong's paintings.
Fang Hui: Mr. Huang Binhong attaches great importance to the idea elements of Fan Kuan, Dong Yuan, and Mi Fu, "accumulating points into lines", accumulating lines into surfaces, and the picture is all points out layer by layer, the advantage of this method is "thick Huazi", but the disadvantage is that it is easy to be trivial. I think you changed this drawing method to the combination of "dots, lines and surfaces", and the picture has changed a lot, and it is more whole, which is innovation! It's not death studies, it's living Zen.
Zhang Zhimin: Some students once asked me, how many trees are in Huang Binhong's painting? I said how many trees can you count when you look at nature? We can say thousands of trees, or we can say that there are no one, which is the magic of Huang Binhong, which is both pen and ink and nature. The ancients said that "the foreign teacher is created, and the source of the heart is obtained", and I added another "return to nature", and Huang Binhong drew out the natural spirit in his heart, which is the third Zen realm of "seeing the mountain and the mountain". Mr. Li Keyan is a student of Huang Binhong, but he pays more attention to the theme of creating more things, painting Jinggangshan, Lijiang, etc., for the river and mountain, so the picture is different from Huang Binhong's effect, he pursues the temple style of art, we can not take Huang Binhong's standards to ask him. Chen Zizhuang is also, he turned Huang Binhong's grand natural realm into another kind of pastoral scenery, the pursuit has changed, the picture has changed, Huang Binhong is like the poetry of the Tang Dynasty, Chen Zizhuang is an idyllic school, full of rural flavor, but the pattern is small.
Fang Hui: Huang Binhong said that the light of Gong Xian's paintings is too dull, bright and dark. He said that Chinese painting should pay more attention to contour light, ambient light, and reflected light, just like the Impressionists went from indoors to outdoors, to discover nature. Mr. Lu Yushao also talked about the problem of contour light, he found it after the rain on the Xin'anjiang Reservoir, and his painting has a blank space like a dragon and snake flying. But Huang Binhong's integration of light and shadow into pen and ink is very successful, very natural, and it is a Chinese culture itself, not an imitation of the Western or a simple fusion of painting styles.
Zhang Zhimin: We can study Western paintings, see how they paint, absorb some things, but we must retain our own original methods in China, so that we can develop better. Zao Wou-Ki and Zhu Dequn were all painters who were later influenced by the West, and their paintings can be called modern ink painting, but they are not the essence of Chinese painting, so don't compare. Lin Fengmian and Wu Guanzhong are also incomparable, Lin Fengmian has a deep understanding of Western modern art, Wu Guanzhong is a late era, some of the meaning of the fusion of East and West, but it seems that it is not enough, he is also influenced by some of Pollock, his early oil paintings like Jiangnan sketches are good. We are afraid of eating raw rice, the painter tradition does not understand, the West does not go deep enough to have only popularity and qualifications, so it is difficult to understand Huang Binhong.
Fang Hui: Very wonderful, thank you Teacher Zhang for your explanation, I thank you on behalf of my friends!
Zhang Zhimin: The question is well asked, it is representative, let's communicate more in the future!
(Fang Hui finished)