To give birth, or not to give birth? An unavoidable question
"Kim Ji-young in '82"
In the past two years, everyone has clearly felt that young people do not like to have children.
This may be because everyone is more and more aware of the "truth" behind parenting, and deciding to have children is not a simple choice, but a showdown with reality.
Japanese documentary journalist Haru Sugiyama's nonfiction book "Parenting Abandonment: Trapped Mothers and Neglected Daughters" tells the story of a real-life case of a three-year-old girl starving to death at home because her young parents neglected to take care of her. After this incident, it caused an uproar in society. But instead of public opinion, which condemns parental dereliction of duty, Sugiyama has collected court trial data through multiple interviews with the parents involved, their families, child protection organizations and hospitals, providing us with another perspective on this case: What can happen when a young girl becomes a mother without being prepared at all?
The tragic ending in the book is only an extreme case, but the difficulties and pains of parenting faced by women through the incident are relevant to each of us. But these things are rarely seen, talked about, or written.
What kind of attitude should we take to "procreation"? To what extent does the "shame" of motherhood, which has always been ignored by the public, bind women? How should women fight back after getting into parenting? To this end, we invited psychological counselor Li Songwei, director and screenwriter Shao Yihui, writer and speaker of the ideal motherhood book list Hong Zhou (soon to publish "I Don't Want to Be a Great Mother"), let's start with "Parenting Abandonment: Trapped Mothers and Neglected Daughters" to talk about these neglected topics.
"Parenting abandonment", what is abandoned?
Hongzhou: When we discuss this book today, many people will feel that this tragedy is far away. But when you look closely at the details depicted in "Parenting Abandonment", you will find that the author describes the psychological changes of the young mother "Masami" very delicately. She was also looking forward to becoming a mother at first, but then tragedy happened step by step.
Behind the tragedy is not only personal reasons, but also family reasons and structural problems of society as a whole. Reading the latter I feel like an analysis of an extremely tragic case of our East Asian women's fertility dilemma, what can happen to a girl when she becomes a mother. I never thought this book was just a story outside of real life, a story that was relevant to the current situation of women.
The topic of our conversation today is: I am not ready to be a mother. This is also an original alternative title for the book, in which the heroine becomes a mother in an unprepared state. I want to ask the two teachers first, when you read this book, what did you feel particularly impressed and felt straight to the heart?
Li Songwei: The title of the book "Childcare Abandonment" is the name given by the Japanese. It expresses the concept of "ignoring". This concept I studied in psychology is one of the irrational parenting styles. There are many types of unreasonable parenting, such as physical abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse, and one called neglect. When I learned these concepts at school, I felt that they were cold, and the story of this book is even more bloody, and it directly leads to the death of a child who is "neglected".
When we study this part, it seems that this concept ends there, representing parents who treat their children in an extremely cruel and inhuman way. Our attitude is certainly critical. And this book completely opened my understanding of the individual psychology of the "neglecter". I just thought they were demons, completely irresponsible, very bad people. But this book uses the perspective of empathy to understand the parents, who became parents when they were just adults and were still very immature. In the description, the author's perspective, although critical, is more warm, and she is trying to understand what is really happening in the hearts of the two young people.
After reading this book, I felt more very sad, very sad, and for the first time I realized that this thing was different from what we imagined. It's not just that we just have to blame this mother for being inhumane and condemn her. On the contrary, we can see the apathy, incomprehension, and even accusatory attitude of the whole society, which does not actually make things better, but becomes a part of the tragedy. Everyone's attitude towards her mother's isolation and accusation, as well as her mother's wariness of external criticism, have led to her increasingly evasive attitude. This book gave me an understanding of the inner characteristics of the "neglecters" who were previously only viewed from the label, and how the environment pushed them into that position.
Shao Yihui: I have been reading this book for a long time, and when I read it, I already know what story it tells about, and I think many people will have an idea when they read it, wondering how this tragedy happened. The book tells the story of how the young mother, Masami, spent her childhood and adolescence, how to read, how to fall in love, and so on. When I saw the previous part, I kept thinking about what she actually presented, that is, a girl who was quite sensible and sensitive, and was forced to grow up. Nothing out of the ordinary.
So you're curious to know how things got to this point? When I watched it, I also thought of Hirokazu Kore-eda's movie "Nobody Knows", which also tells the story of children starving to death. I think the mother in the movie is also a little similar to "Masami", and she looks like a very normal woman. As for childhood trauma or bad memories, in fact, each of us also has it. The mother in "Nobody Knows" is at most an occasional trip home and stays outside the rest of the time. The movie doesn't tell what she went to do, she said she went to work to earn money. Her four children, the big one and the younger one, starved to death step by step.
"Nobody Knows"
When I watched the movie, I noticed that their mom kept telling them not to go out or play on the balcony so that they would be seen. In fact, there are many welfare institutions or children-related institutions in Japan, and even ordinary passers-by have a strong sense of responsibility for neglected children, and a child who sees himself playing on the street can call the police or take certain measures.
So moms in movies can't let their children be seen by others. Only the older children could lead the smaller ones to hide, which eventually caused tragedy. When I read this book, I felt angry because there were actually several times when outside organizations could help Masami. I think their system and procedures are already perfect, and there are special people to do this, to supervise or check how the children and mothers of each family are. But even so, it can starve children to death. So I feel that after reading this book, my doubts have not been solved. Because I feel that all this is not enough to cause the final tragedy.
The shame of being a mother
Hongzhou: At the beginning of this story, the overall condition of her daughter Nami has improved, she can start to say some simple words, she can say delicious, she can call her mother. But then her mental and physical condition began to deteriorate sharply. One important reason is the shame of the mother. I wrote a guide to this book called "The Shame of Being a Mother", as long as her daughter has a little mistake or is not as developed as well as other children, the mother Masami wants to hide the child. The process of hiding the child step by step is also a process of gradual disintegration of the mother's psychology.
Shao Yihui: I feel the shame you just mentioned, especially when Yami is in contact with the outside world. I think this shame is understandable, everyone is afraid that others will blame themselves and feel that they are not a good mother. I think shame at most does not want the child to have contact with other people, but when the child is sick, it must be very uncomfortable, will not understand, when there is only her and her daughter in the space, she can feed the child well. She actually didn't like her children enough later.
Hongzhou: I think this is related to Yami's childhood experience, Yami is actually a neglected and abandoned child, just like her husband. So she doesn't see it as a kind of abandonment, but rather as an outcome that children in families like theirs have to face. She put her growing habitual thinking on her children. But Japan's social structure has changed a lot from when she was growing up, and Masami was able to live more closely with her grandparents when she was growing up, so even if her parents gave up, her grandparents could still take on some family responsibilities.
When it was her turn, her parents and her husband's parents didn't offer her much help. Coupled with the problem of her mother-in-law and daughter-in-law at the age of 19, it is difficult for her to deal with such complex interpersonal relationships. After the multiple buffs were superimposed, so that she gradually gave up on the child. In fact, it is a bit like the domestic childcare environment, for example, when we were young, we could also go to the nursery of our parents' large state-owned enterprises and be taken care of. But now the main force of children's parenting support is basically in the family. If the elderly do not come to help, all the responsibility for childcare is on the husband and wife. In a patriarchal society, if everyone tacitly assumes that women should take on most of the child-rearing responsibilities, the last perpetrator of this tragedy will become a mother.
Regarding the matter of shame, I would like to ask Teacher Li, as a father, a man, and a psychological counselor, do you have shame in the process of raising children? For example, do you feel that you are not doing enough, or that the child is not good enough, not good enough, not well-behaved enough, is it my father who did not teach well?
Li Songwei: I think we have to answer at several levels. First of all, I think that as the caregiver of children, under a large East Asian common culture, we may have a consensus that when the child is particularly young, the child's performance largely reflects whether you are a qualified parent. To say a very common example, I believe that all parents of children have experienced, such as taking a train, taking a plane, the child is crying, and then you feel the eyes of the people around you, that gaze is not how condemnable, maybe those people themselves do not want to exert pressure, but as long as a few people glance over, parents will immediately rush, eager to do something immediately to eliminate this cry. Otherwise, you feel that you are causing trouble for others.
On this basis, one more distinction is made. Just now we also talked about mom and dad. I'll be honest, I do feel that if it's just me with my kids, the shame is mine, and I'm going to take on all the pressure. But if I, my wife and the kids are together, I feel a little relieved in my heart, and I feel like it's almost a cultural unconscious. Unconsciously think that mom should take more responsibility for this matter, and dad is on the side to assist.
When I say this, I am not saying that this thing is reasonable, but I was very surprised when I realized it myself. Because I didn't have any education about "raising a child should be a mother's business." Even so, at the moment when my child cried, when both parents were present, I felt as if I only had to bear 30%-40% in my heart. It's really a subtle feeling. As a man, intellectually I certainly know that women actually take on a lot in this process, but in terms of empathy, I may not feel so much, and this matter seems to have indeed become a conventional unreasonable distribution of gender.
Hongzhou: Yes, in the hearts of East Asian women, some of the disciplines and requirements we have received since childhood are very strict. For example, one of the most common words I heard when I was a child was that if you did not perform well, or if you looked crazy or not quiet enough, well-behaved and sensible, and your academic performance was not serious enough, you would define our life too early and think that your life was over. We grow up with high demands on ourselves.
The mother in this book also has many such moments, such as the child's developmental delay, she will feel a big blow inside. The authors write that when confronted with their children's shortcomings, weaknesses, or obvious differences from other children, many mothers experience strong emotional ups and downs and become sensitive and nervous. It's a subtle feeling, as if someone is announcing to them that you're a bad mother. But people feel that they are bad, and it is their children who make this bad public.
"Nobody Knows"
A friend once described it as saying that sometimes children will tear down the curtains of their parents' hearts and expose the hearts we want to cover up. As a mother myself, I am sometimes in such a subtle fluctuation in my heart.
Li Songwei: I want to add that Teacher Hongzhou used the word parent just now, but in this book, her mother Masami has strong self-blame and shame. But Dad is playing games, of course, you can also understand playing games as some kind of escape or self-isolation, but he has the ability and space to choose to let himself play games.
Hongzhou: Yes, you will find that male characters have a retreat in the family, but women do not. Especially when she first became a mother, Masami has always cared about the eyes of others. She will also feel that the housework should be mainly borne by her, and in the end she gives up childcare, and I think she has not only given up her daughter, but also herself. Later, she fell into card debt, kept shopping online, and owed a lot of money. From a psychological point of view, Teacher Li analyzed, is she desperately trying to escape, wanting to carry out psychological hoarding?
Li Songwei: I was surprised by a translation in this book, which says that the word abuse is abuse, and its other meaning in English is abuse, which is actually addiction, for example, alcohol abuse is called alcohol abuse.
I didn't realize that in the English I learned, abuse, addiction and abuse were one thing. In fact, Hongzhou-sensei just said that in the final stage, Masami and Tomozori fell into some kind of desperate addiction. One is using games, one is using excessive consumption.
The core mechanism of addiction is actually an escape or self-isolation, your external life, your real world is already too bad, at this time you can only bury your head like an ostrich in a relatively comfortable thing, get a little pleasure and stimulation, help you forget all the pressure in reality. But when you bury your head in escape, it can cause your reality to worsen.
Just now, Teacher Shao said that simple shame is not enough to make things develop to such a vicious point. But in fact, once we deal with shame in an evasive way, it becomes more and more serious. The reason why shame can become so hurtful is because people can't turn for help. Not being able to open the door of my house and tell someone that I am having trouble and that I need help.
In this book, although Masami's environment is relatively cold and polite, there are still many potential resources to help her. But in the end, Masami even lied to cut off the channel for help. This is because she has no way to face the outside world anymore, she has no way for the outside world to see the scarred self, because she feels that her appearance is too bad, she wants to hide herself too much. I feel that in addition to her simple inability to bear the pressure, there is still a stigma or shame at play - I am a bad person, as a mother, when I can't fulfill the duties of a so-called good mother, I don't deserve to face the world, this society, I feel that this thing is the core of her inability to seek help.
Why don't mothers tell their daughters about the pain of childbirth?
Hongzhou: Yami has a lot of things in common to East Asian women, first of all, shame. In addition, whether it was her own belief or what her female elders told her, it was as if motherhood was a natural thing. In fact, those of us who have been mothers will know that motherhood is not natural and needs to be learned.
In the process of being a mother, we as women actually have a lot of shortcomings and misunderstandings, such as Masami does not know that the baby's head cannot be shaken violently, and her husband Chi does not know. Masami also didn't know how to feed her daughter, hold her or teach her to talk. Behind these seemingly trivial life cares is the transmission of love, the binding and connection between lives. So when her child doesn't eat and cry, she simply thinks that she is naughty and disobedient. She didn't really know that a hug or a kiss could resolve her daughter's anxiety or agitation.
After reading this book, I feel that many things have subverted my cognition, I don't know if Shao Yihui has such an idea, because there is a saying in the book that "parenting is reality itself, it is a real knife and a real gun of victory and defeat", although you have not yet become a parent, do you feel that the process of parenting when reading this book is actually a process that constantly subverts and challenges an adult's cognition?
Shao Yihui: Although I have not yet given birth, I have studied fertility since I was a child. When I was in adolescence and after I had a boyfriend, my mom would always tell me how painful it was to have a baby, including her postpartum depression after giving birth to me. Of course, she didn't know at that time that it was called postpartum depression, that is, she was very uncomfortable, and she wanted to jump off the building every day and wanted to commit suicide. So she told me from a young age that giving birth is painful, in addition to physically, there are all kinds of mental torture. I thought this was the norm, but when I grew up, when I interacted with other women, including public opinion on the Internet and in society, I realized that there were very few people like my mother who told the truth.
And I'm really curious, every mother with a daughter, she must have experienced childbirth, that kind of hard childbirth. We are all ordinary people, we have no money to go to any confinement center, and we have no good medical conditions. Especially for our generation or more mothers of the previous generation, the environment and medical common sense, parenting common sense at that time are not very good, including postpartum repair is not very understood, which shows that the probability that every mother who has experienced childbirth actually knows how painful and unbearable this thing is, how can they forget these things, or how can they not tell their daughters?
"Home on the Ramp"
Li Songwei: I can answer that question, and that's why we're going to talk about why it's about shame. The shame is not that I went through a painful thing, but that I am a terrible person, and I am not a good person. I think your mother's message is very clear, she told you that this is not okay, it will make any normal person feel overwhelmed in this matter. But most people actually feel that during that process, I feel bad, I feel weak, probably because I am not good enough. She probably didn't think it was painful at all. Instead, I think that I am not good enough, so I can't admit that this thing is really that difficult, but I will glorify this thing and say that this thing is not difficult. It was a little bit difficult, but you know that's how everybody comes and everybody goes through. She would rationalize things in this way.
Shao Yihui: Fortunately, the times have progressed, and many people on the Internet will talk about the results after giving birth, whether it is body shape or body leakage of urine, such as your whole life will be tied to your children. I think even if you don't talk about this, everyone should know, because in our ordinary family, my mother is the one who has worked hard all her life.
I am also curious why daughters see their mothers, in most of the current dual-income families, mothers have to work, take care of themselves, and endure all kinds of irresponsible fathers, so after a lifetime, why dare to have children? I think it's normal not to dare to give birth. I want to say that I really appreciate the Internet now, especially women are willing to talk about the pain of childbirth, slowly throw away the shame, tell everyone these truths, and then you choose.
I remember reading a book last year called "The Choice to Become a Mother", the English translation is "Regret Being a Mother", which is full of people who regret being mothers after giving birth, and the children are normal, not any disease. The voice we heard from childhood is that a woman has no regrets as long as she has a child, so you see that now with a book like this, I think it's good. Because there are all kinds of people in society, there are those who do not regret it, there must be regrets, but why can we only hear one voice? I think every woman should read that book more, childbirth is really not easy, dare to give birth is a very courageous thing.
Li Songwei: I think one of the things that Mr. Shao just said is very important, that is, we should not read "Parenting Abandonment" as an extreme case, if you take it as an extreme case, you will think maybe I won't be so bad, I won't have that kind of dilemma. Of course, that dilemma manifests itself as such an outcome, which can be extreme. But the dilemma itself is not a minority, but universal and obvious.
Shao Yihui: Yes, and when I watched it, I wondered if they were not educated enough, and Teacher Hongzhou just said that after the child is born, many reactions need to be learned before we can know. Is that because Masami didn't study, or the two of them weren't educated enough, so they didn't know this?
Hongzhou: I think it's because she doesn't think it's something that needs to be learned. The prerequisite for learning this is that you acknowledge that these things need to be learned. This is actually a psychological relaxation. If everyone tells you, including yourself, that you are born to believe in it, everyone will. You blame yourself.
Shao Yihui: Yes. The overall environment tells every woman that she should have children. It seems to be simple to say, like eating and drinking Lazar. So in extreme cases like this, Masami will feel that every woman can do it, why can't I? If these young girls are shrouded in such lies, of course, they cannot be called lies, but can only be said to be one-sided truths, not the whole truth.
As I read the first half of this book, I wondered why it was so easy to have a baby. After you said this, I can understand it now. Including some of my junior high school classmates and so on, there are many people who have already given birth, especially in small places, and everyone feels normal. Women don't have children, so what?
And since it's so simple, what's so hard about having a child and raising a child? So I think this system is in the same vein, and if you are wrong at the beginning, there will be more and more disasters later. I think it is difficult to raise a child well, make him physical, mental, and spiritually healthy, not necessarily need to have any social achievements, but need him to be a healthy person, which is difficult.
The only progress now is that we are willing to admit that we are not healthy, which is a small improvement, but I think our shortcomings are still very big, and this is actually related to our step-by-step education.
Li Songwei: On the basis of what Shao Yihui just said, I would like to add one thing. The mothers of the previous generation, or most mothers around us, expressed that childbirth seemed to be a normal thing and an easy thing, and if we took these as lies, it was unfair to them. So I would like to say a few more words for them.
In fact, only a very small number of people in this society will really have the courage to face the truth that "I may not really be that strong, just this ability". If you don't take on the role of mother, it means that you may have to take on a lot of other pressures in your family or personal capacity. But there are many ordinary people in society who simply do not have the strength to fight those pressures. So she will be forced to go down this path, and of course she will hold on. I think East Asian women are sometimes great because they can really stand up, and she is very hard-working. Sometimes, people's cognition is also weak, and she can't bear the pain while telling herself that I shouldn't bear it. Few people can withstand such a pinch. So I need to do a cognitive shift, which we call cognitive dissonance, which means that I have to change my perception, to convince myself that this thing is affordable, even something I love.
Why do many daughters see their mothers working so hard, but they can't feel that childbirth is such a painful thing? It is because these mothers squeezed out a smile on their faces and said to their children, I am not bitter at all, I love you very much, this is a very happy thing. I want to say that they are not deceiving people, they are not trying to deceive people. If you lie, they are actually deceiving themselves, because under the protracted pain, they can only convince themselves in this way.
Shao Yihui: Yes, I agree. If these mothers don't convince themselves like this, she will collapse, what is the purpose of the first half of her life? So they have to tell themselves, "I'm worth it," "this thing is worth it," or "motherhood is great."
Women should dare to express their anger
Hongzhou: So, I think from another point of view, the matter of being a mother is something to be learned, and if you do it wrong, it doesn't matter, you should accept this. I think it's also a reminder to men that this can't be known only to women. Men can't demand or acquiesce that once a woman becomes a mother, she is born to do a lot of things, and if she doesn't do a good job, she can't. Instead, we should know that everyone should bear it together, half and half of it.
"Home on the Ramp"
Shao Yihui: People who will change don't need to be told to him. I think it can only rely on the next generation, mothers who have already given birth to sons, can tell her son from an early age, how you should treat women, how to become a good, qualified person, not just men, what you should do when you have a family in the future. If he is already twenty or thirty years old, I don't think he can really change it. I also went researched and did some work, and I found it really difficult. Because you are asking them to give up their vested interests and give up their comfortable lives, who wants to give up their privileges?
Li Songwei: I think the idea Shao Yihui talked about is also very good, mothers can tell their young son what he has gone through. In fact, there are many women who realize that these things are very painful, and they will choose me not to be a mother first. I think that's at least an option that women can make. Instead of reforming my husband or a man, it may be easier to protect myself first, and if I am not prepared, I can not be this mother.
Hongzhou: I think when people recognize that this is a common good, men will learn. I once shared in a company where a boy said he was a new dad and that the child was only a few months old. He asked a question that shocked me, and he said what the hell can I do to help my wife share more? His wife was about to go back to work after maternity leave, and he began to worry that his wife would not be able to take care of the children when she went to work, and the elderly at home did not have much to help. In such a situation, he, as a man and a father, should take on more responsibility for taking care of the children. Because childbearing is a joint decision, not a unilateral decision of the woman. He recognizes this because he considers this matter comprehensively from the perspective of family development, and he thinks that this matter is important to him.
He said he recalled his childhood when his father was like a piece of furniture at home. But when he became a father himself, he found out that this was not true. Growing up, his father was invisible and he wanted to communicate with him. So this boy in the process of parenting, I feel that I have to constantly help my child and constantly love my child. He even thought of becoming a stay-at-home father, wondering if he would simply go back to full-time for a year with his children, and then return to the workplace.
Is our society now giving men more childcare care? For example, maternity leave is for girls, but maternity leave does not allow us to rest after giving birth, and going to take children after giving birth is more tiring than going to work. If this maternity leave can be given to men at the same time, such as some measures that have been implemented in some Nordic countries, Korean men also have one year of maternity leave. Of course, awareness is important, but there is also the parenting policy of society as a whole. From the level of rational public space and parenting policy, giving these to men is a bit like letting men passively do this thing and learn how to be a father in the process of maternity leave. I think subtly, the man's thinking mode and some of his behavior patterns will gradually be changed.
Shao Yihui: I want to give an example, both parents are on maternity leave, and finally my wife collapses, and I hope that my father will go to work quickly, because his maternity leave at home is equivalent to his vacation. So I think there can only be a change in mindset first, and if they are only given holidays now, and they don't have that concept, it's really hard to do it.
Hongzhou: I'm curious if Mr. Li, as a man and a father, has experienced some psychological changes?
Li Songwei: I would like to add a very important personal experience, I have come across many family cases, and I think a very important factor in this matter is that women must learn to be angry, to learn to be angry. In this book, after Masami enters the detention center, she expresses her anger at her mother for the first time. Masami's personality is also the epitome of many East Asian women, who have suffered greatly, but what is left outside is always a smile and sunshine. In her heart, she always rationalized all this thing, thinking that this thing is something I should bear, and if I can't bear it, I am ashamed, uncomfortable, and avoid the eyes of the world, but I always feel that it is my fault in my heart.
But if she realizes I can be angry, why is it important for me to talk about it? Including the previous I said that in fact, girls can refuse to have children, that is, if I am not ready, I can not give birth. This is the only thing women can do to protect themselves and take control of their lives. Only on that basis can I agree that there will be a very small number of men who may progress through self-knowledge or by whatever means. But many men, not forced to the last moment of helplessness, he does not want to change at all. A person in the comfort zone will not want to actively step out of the comfort zone unless he is thrown out by a broom.
I see a lot of men get to the moment of divorce and he panics; Or maybe his wife is already depressed, because depression seems to me to be a very gentle way to express anger; Or he finds out that his wife does not give birth in any way, that is, refuses to have children, and only in this case will these men realize that this is our common interest.
If the man feels that I have changed or changed, she will do what she should do anyway, in this case, you have to actively rely on the change of male consciousness, which is really too testing.
Hongzhou: Also, in marriage or intimacy, anger is one aspect, but some men can interpret it as a kind of hysteria that women are unreasonable. She is unreasonable, unreasonable, and crazy, which is the most common rebuke that men make to women. As women, one skill we may learn is to give our own negative feedback with good reason.
Li Songwei: I don't think there is a need to be justified, I think this is still a discipline for women in our society. As if your expression must be within a range that makes sense. Otherwise, men will say that you are crazy, that you are unreasonable, that you have no logic in this matter. In my counseling, when I meet so-called crazy women with their partners, first of all, I don't use reason to discipline women to say don't go crazy, because I know that by doing so, I am telling them that this is not right, that your emotions are not right. I'll just look at this man with a look full of compassion and pity and say, "The good days are over, buddy." "He has to be aware of this, and after that, he has to find a way to let his wife's emotions have some outlet or ease it, which is his responsibility."
Hongzhou: I don't think it's necessary to think that "reasonable" is a requirement of women to themselves, it is just a strategy. When you want something, whether it's getting the respect and understanding you want in the relationship, or the support you want in parenting, you have to use these things as a strategy, not mental exhaustion like Masami.
Li Songwei: I completely agree that if there is reason and good for you, you will have reason and good evidence, and when it is beneficial to you, you will spread and roll.
Hongzhou: I think the strategic thing is that women also need to let go to a certain extent in parenting. Because whether it was the discipline she received from childhood or the influence of her mother's generation, she would take it for granted as if it was something I should do. You can put aside these habits, Dad will not die if he does these things, then let Dad do it.
Including breastfeeding, there are many men who say that parenting before the age of one has nothing to do with me, and I don't have milk. But in fact, many of our parenting styles today are negotiable, we are already a modern society, not a primitive state. If men still take it for granted that they have to return to a very primitive or natural state to raise a child, then there is nothing to talk about.
Shao Yihui: I suddenly remembered that a few days ago, I saw some men posting on Weibo, teaching other brothers how to make his wife never work with him again, such as when breastfeeding the child, the milk was very hot and burned the child, and then he said that his wife would never let him care about this again. There are also men who say that the first time I was asked to make rice, I burned it and my wife never let me cook anymore.
Li Songwei: A default premise of these things is that we still feel that this responsibility is first in women, and then women send it out, but if you send it to me and I don't take it, or I take it but I can't do it well, you can only take it back. But this premise itself I feel should be broken. Who says the responsibility has to lie with the girls? We don't have to assume that men are doing these things and only doing women a favor.
Hongzhou: From the perspective of social construction, when we encounter these tragedies, our focus is still on child abuse itself, or condemning mothers themselves. Of course, there is a problem, and the minor parents must bear legal responsibility. But if we stay at this level and do not pay attention to some factors of cultural level or social structure and gender structural inequality, this tragedy will not stop.
It is a pleasure to communicate with the two teachers today. I think we talked about a lot of details in this book today. I think it is very worthy of reading in terms of language, logic, and writing composition, especially for men. If you were to recommend this book, would it be for men or women? Anyway, I would definitely recommend it to my male friend or partner.
Shao Yihui: Yes, I also think that men should be allowed to watch, girls have seen too much.
Li Songwei: I would recommend it to my fellow counselors, I have always felt that in the narrative of psychological counseling, we will still subtly have an attitude of condemning the mother, or will simply attribute this matter to the mother is not good enough. So I really want them to read books like this and understand it from a more fair perspective, or a bigger perspective. Because in the cases they encounter, there will be a lot of neglect, abuse, such childhood trauma. I don't want this stuff to just finish the narrative with a tone like "you met a bad mom."
Hongzhou: I think that every "bad mother", or "bad wife" or "bad woman" that everyone thinks of has many reasons behind them, and there are many figures and voices that are not understood and cannot be seen.
Shao Yihui: Yes, and every time we talk about "bad mothers", it seems to be very serious. But when it comes to bad dads, doesn't that think it's normal?
Hongzhou: Yes, it may even be funny, just laugh it off.
Shao Yihui: Yes, so this concept will take a while to change slowly.
Parenting Abandonment: Trapped Mothers and Neglected Daughters