China News Service, Vancouver, April 16 (Xinhua) -- Why do we have to "step on two boats" to translate Chinese poetry?
——Interview with Canadian sinologist Wang Jian
China News Service reporter Yu Ruidong
In the eyes of a Western scholar who has a deep study of ancient Chinese poetry, where is the beauty of Tang and Song poetry? What are the challenges of translating ancient Chinese poetry into English? Jan Walls, a well-known Canadian sinologist and translator, recently gave an exclusive interview to China News Service's "East-West Question" in Surrey, Metro Vancouver, sharing his feelings about the beauty of Chinese.
The transcript of the interview is summarized below:
CNS: How did you get acquainted with Chinese and enter the world of Chinese culture?
Wang Jian: Until I was about 18 years old, I still didn't know anything about China. Before college, I grew up in Indiana, USA. Later, during my 4 years in the Navy, I studied Chinese in Monterey, California, and became interested in Chinese culture. After retiring from the army, I returned to Indiana University to continue my studies in Chinese Chinese culture. At that time, my mentor was Liu Wuji, the son of Liu Yazi, and I didn't know the importance of this relationship at the time, only to find out later that I was lucky. I majored in Chinese and minored in Japanese at university. The Japanese have been very interested in China and Chinese culture for more than a thousand years. There is hardly a Japanese middle school student who does not know how to recite "the bright moonlight in front of the bed, which is suspected to be frost on the ground". So I had to learn Japanese.
On February 9, 2024, Professor Wang Jian was photographed at his home in Surrey, Metro Vancouver. Photo by Yu Ruidong
China News Service: What is the beauty of Chinese that has attracted you to study for decades?
Wang Jian: In the early 70s of the 20th century, when I was teaching Chinese at UBC (University of British Columbia), especially in the intensive class, I not only asked students to read textbooks to learn Mandarin, but also taught them to sing some Chinese folk songs, so many students would sing ("Treading the Snow and Looking for Plum Blossoms"): "The snow is sunny / The wax plum is fragrant everywhere / Ride a donkey to cross the bridge / The bell rings and jingles ......". I also taught them to recite Tang poems. Traditional Chinese recitation of poetry is not like today's people, but chanting (with tunes). Therefore, many students here will learn to chant Tang poems. There is no corresponding habit in the West, it is all dramatic recitation. I appreciate the traditional Chinese way of chanting poetry.
Chinese like to use four-word clichés (colloquialisms), or four-word idioms. If you don't know how to use four-word idioms, you can't speak very natural Chinese. Chinese like to use figurative expressions, less direct descriptions, more idioms or proverbs to describe things, including interpersonal relationships. I think this is one of the loveliest places about Chinese.
Chengdu Du Fu Thatched Cottage. Photo by Yu Xiangquan
There are so many idioms and proverbs in Chinese. They describe things just right. For example, the Chinese say "blow the horn on the plane - sing a high note". I like them all, but it's hard to explain them to foreign friends.
The structure of Tang poetry is very important, and the stereotype is obvious, and I appreciate the diversity of Song poetry even more. The book "Empty Bird Tracks", which I co-translated with my wife, Professor Li Ying (Note: Professor Li Ying passed away in October 2023), contains more than 130 poems by Wang Anshi.
Young people in ancient costumes play music in the Zhongshan Literature Museum in Nanjing. Dinglin Villa, where Zhongshan Literature Museum is located, was originally a three-hall garden building enclosed by a group of curved corridors to commemorate Wang Anshi, a politician and writer of the Northern Song Dynasty. Photo by Yang Bo
China News Service: What are the difficulties in translating ancient Chinese poems into English? What are the biggest challenges?
Wang Jian: Actually, most of Bai Juyi's poems are easier to translate. Li Bai has thousands of poems, and his works are also relatively famous, and I have translated many of them. I appreciate Chinese poetry or poetry, mainly for translation, but more from the perspective of a translator. Because I've translated hundreds of poems, sometimes when I look at a poem, I know it's "the old lady is on her heel—it's hard to translate." Maybe I wouldn't dare to translate.
Dance drama "Li Bai". Photo by Luo Yunfei
And my translations must be able to be recited in the tone of a chant. For example (Wang Wei's "Bamboo Pavilion"):
独坐幽篁里/弹琴复长啸/深林人不知/明月来相照。 Bamboo grove alone /Strumming humming tones /Deep woods, no one knows/ Then comes a full moon.
Another example (Li Bai's "Silent Night Thoughts"):
床前明月光/疑是地上霜/举头望明月/低头思故乡。 Moonlight all around/ Like frost on the ground/ Look up a full moon/ I miss my hometown.
For me, whether it is good or not is a good translation refers to whether I can recite and chant in English. I focus on chanting because it's a Chinese tradition.
Chinese is easier to rhyme because Mandarin has only more than four hundred syllables. If the translation is to be chanted, it is better to rhyme as well. But I am not limited to the English translation into rhyme, because English has thousands of syllables, so English rhyme is sometimes reluctant, and it is easy for readers to think of "limericks".
The most difficult thing about translating poetry is to "pedal two boats". It is best to be faithful to the length of the sentence in the original text, especially the words, not the poem. At the same time, do not go against the spirit of the original text. The way the Chinese think is of course expressed in poetry or poetry. However, experience creates expectations. If (the translator) does not have the experience that the average Chinese has experienced, it will be difficult to find a natural way to express it in English. So to find a translation of the expression "pedaling two boats". This one is complicated.
Quanzhou Nanyin repertoire exhibition brought Tang poems to the stage. Photo by Dandan Vo
China News Service: What are the main differences between China and the West in terms of expression?
Wang Jian: One of the reasons I appreciate Chinese culture is that for a cultured Chinese, when discussing a complex topic, he will use a four-word idiom to fully capture the whole atmosphere. It's hard for English-speaking Americans, Canadians.
The Chinese I know seem to appreciate this. He appreciates when a conclusion is provided in an indirect, rather than direct, way. And the "foreigners" probably think, why don't you say it directly and say it quickly?
For the average American, China belongs to "the mysterious Orient." But the way of thinking of Chinese in the 21st century has changed compared to that of Chinese in the 20th century. This is thanks to the Internet and digital communication technology. Moreover, young Chinese people are now in contact with foreigners more frequently. The more you communicate, the less "mysterious" there is.
In December 2022, the "Echoes of Tang Poems" concert was held in New York, USA, and the young Chinese bass singer Bu Le performed "Silent Night Thoughts". Photo by Liao Pan
China News Service: There are many differences between the cultural genes of China and the West. Do you think that the cultural development of China and the West will necessarily go their separate ways, or will they end up in the same place?
Wang Jian: When Chinese say "what song to sing on what mountain", when using Chinese, we must use the Chinese way of thinking and expression. Do not think that this will change your self-perception, but rather as a way to strengthen your ability to cope with the new environment.
From the very beginning, I reminded my students that speaking and writing in English are really the same. But in Chinese, there is a big difference between what you say (spoken) and what you write (written). Because writing Chinese characters is much more complicated than writing 26 English letters, it is important to think of ways to express ideas that can save time, effort, and brain. So there are many ways in which Chinese are omitted.
If you understand the history of China and the history of Canada and the United States, sooner or later you will think about the same path, because the reality that any society has to face is very similar. Literate people will recognize the value of different paths and common destinations. (ENDS)
Interviewee Profile:
On February 9, 2024, Professor Wang Jian, who is the "Golden Dragon" in the year of his birth, took a photo at his home in Surrey, Metro Vancouver. Photo by Yu Ruidong
Jan Walls is a well-known Canadian sinologist and translator. He lives in Surrey, Metro Vancouver. Born in the United States in 1940, he is an educator with tenured professorships at the University of British Columbia, Victoria University, and Simon Fraser University in Canada. In the early 80s of the 20th century, he served as Cultural Counsellor at the Canadian Embassy in Beijing, and was the Senior Vice President of the Asia Pacific Foundation of Canada. His research interests include literary and cultural studies and translation, East Asian languages and cultures, cross-cultural communication between the East and the West, and cross-cultural translation.