On February 9th, GameTime participated in the early trial of the official version of "Eldon's Ring of Law" co-organized by BNE, Sony Interactive Entertainment Shanghai and From Software, and interviewed yasuhiro Kitao, the producer of the game, with domestic game media counterparts after the meeting.
About worldviews and stories
Media: Why did Eldon's Ring of Law choose a relatively slower combat rhythm over the experience of "Bloodborne Curse" and "Only Wolf: Shadow Death Twice" that have already accelerated the pace of action? Is it to fit the theme of the game?
Kitao: Because Eldon's Ring of Law is a game based on the previous Dark Souls, the Dark Souls series requires players to wear armor or heavier equipment, plus the game is in the medieval fantasy style, so the action design is relatively slow. In contrast, "Bloodborne Curse", the player wears cloak-like equipment, the class is a hunter, there will be different weapons, the action will be relatively light and fast, so that compared to it, "Bloodborne Curse" is indeed faster than the attack system of Dark Souls.
When Dark Souls 1 and 2, the battle rhythm is indeed a little slower, and when the "Bloodborne Curse" players will feel that the attack action is suddenly accelerated a lot, and then to "Dark Souls 3", there is no way to directly make the game's attack rhythm directly change back to 1 and 2, so in fact, the action rhythm of "Dark Souls 3" is faster than 1 and 2. The overall pace of battle in Eldon's Ring of Law is similar to the feeling of Dark Souls 3.
Media: This time you are working with Gorgy R.R. Martin to create the plot first, and then do the gameplay, will this process change bring some changes to your game development? Is there anything you can share with Gorgy R.R. Martin?
Kitao: Actually, this time, as in the past, it was decided on the gameplay of the game before writing the story. After Gorge R.R. Martin decided on the big framework of the worldview story, we designed the action and all the gameplay, integrated this gameplay into this worldview framework, and then went step by step to complete the details of the game's world, which is similar to this feeling.
The way I worked with Gorgy R.R. Martin this time was different from the past. Martin is not writing the stories that players will see when playing Eldon's Circle of Law, but about myths about more distant times before those stories took place. FromSoftware is responsible for the post-mythological era, which is the story body of the game's main axis. Because of the way the game is made, this kind of cooperation will appear. On the contrary, if FromSoftware makes the game first, and then asks him to write a story, it will inevitably happen that in order to cooperate with the way of the game, it will be necessary to let him cooperate with the writing of such a situation, which may lead to repeated changes, and the content is not necessarily so attractive, so we did not take this approach, but Gorge R.R. Martin first wrote the mythological part, and then we cooperated with the gameplay of the game to create a story that occurred in the subsequent world.
In the game world, players can see the characters, such as "Marlenia" or other demigods, these demigods actually appear in the myths written by Gorge R.R. Martin, and the mythological parts he wrote are very unique and full of entangled stories, which will also be displayed in the "Ring of Eldon Law". In games like Bloodborne Curse in the past, bosses may scream as soon as they appear and rush over to slash people, but this time in Eldon's Circle of Law, the boss will talk to the player first, which will also show the feeling of the world created by Gorge R.R. Martin.
Media: What is in the game that Hidetaka Miyazaki is fully involved in, or that he himself asked to be added?
Kitao: After all, Mr. Miyazaki is the director of the game, so this game starts with a world view, and almost every part of the game is insisted on by Mr. Miyazaki himself, or personally involved. For example, the gameplay of the game, the art design, the music, the action, and even the dialogue, are basically decided by Mr. Miyazaki himself, or he is involved in the production with other production teams. Many NPC lines are also written by Mr. Miyazaki, or quite distinctive, I hope you can look forward to it.
Media: Does The Open World Form of Eldon's Law Have any advantages over the relatively closed design form of the previous Dark Souls series? Or is it an example of an idea or idea that was previously unattainable, which can be realized this time?
Kitao: We started by dividing the game into two parts, the first being the open field and the other being the underground maze. In fact, at the beginning, it was intended to make the maze undulating and intricate, just like the previous Dark Souls series. In contrast, it was originally expected that the plain side would be very flat, with no undulations. However, starting with Mr. Hidetaka Miyazaki, the interest of all the development teams was driven by the slow decision to make The Plains different. Therefore, you can use the spirit horse to make a two-stage jump. I hope to create a very three-dimensional environment with a very high game density.
Although it will also have something to do with the players' gameplay, we hope that players who have played Dark Souls will feel very fresh when playing The Ring of Eldon this time. Like myself, I have always used the "straight sword", but in this "Eldon's Ring", I found many different ways to reach the destination, so I tried to use a variety of weapons to attack the enemy. I hope that the old players will also like him, maintain a new mentality to play this game.
Media: I've already encountered a lot of NPCs during this time I've been playing, and that's only a small part of the map, will there be more characters coming up? Will so many characters make the game's story more difficult to decipher than before, or will the relationships be more complex? Although it is true that interpreting the story is also an interest of many players.
Kitao: Actually, as you just said, players encounter quite a few NPCs early in the game, and these NPCs are not the kind they never see again this time. In fact, players will see a lot of NPCs in the early stages, and through the narration of player fragments by these NPCs, players can build the whole world by themselves. While there may be situations such as "who is this person?", the game's story as a whole should be easier to understand.
About the open world
Media: Why did "Eldon's Ring of Law" think of adding an open-world element when it was established, and how to make the soul game and the open world a perfect combination of these two things?
Kitao: We wanted to create a very grand world, full of adventure and all kinds of mysteries, and we wanted to go on adventure in such a world, so we chose open world as the theme, which can be said to be the reason for the birth of this game in the first place.
As for how to combine soul games with the concept of open world, there are actually many types of open worlds, which cannot be generalized. We are not from a variety of open-ended scene design of the game to choose a suitable reference, but directly from the original idea of "Dark Souls" to expand, and then let players can adventure in the open world, it can be said that because of all the characteristics of "Dark Souls", you can come up with such a game.
As for whether the "Eldon's Ring of Law" made by this fusion is a good fusion of the two designs, it may be up to the player to judge. The core gameplay of the game is still battle-centric, in an open-world environment, players will have a richer choice of how to approach the enemy and how to fight. It's just that we thought that making such a world centered on combat could be combined with underground labyrinths, and the player's weapons would be different from the way they approached the enemy, and we hoped that the player could enjoy this part.
Because the game still has a lot of strong enemies, it will still be very stressful, so how to let players play without pressure is a very important issue. Like in dark souls in the past, if the player died, they would lose their soul, they would stay in the place where they died, and they would have to go back and get those experience points back. Underground labyrinths like Dark Souls won't be very difficult, just go in and get it, but if it's an open world like The Ring of Eldon, it will be very troublesome to move around such a large map, so this time in order to reduce such pressure, we will set up a system that allows players to re-challenge in more difficult locations, and we are constantly adjusting the game in this way.
Media: In the experience just now, we found enemies that only appear at night, what specific impact does this day-night system have on the game?
Kitao: We actually wanted to change the day and night as much as possible without changing the gaming experience. In the early stages of development, I did think that there were completely different enemies during the day and night, but later found that the player may feel that there is a feeling of being forced, which will feel very troublesome, so finally chose not to let the day and night difference affect the overall experience of the game.
But there are still some cases that occur because of the difference between day and night, and the parts that will affect can be divided into two, the first is the prop, because the prop will glow, so sometimes it is not easy to find during the day, and it will be easier to see at night. Another part is whether it will be detected by the enemy, it is easier to hide at night, especially in rainy weather, it is easier to hide and not be discovered by the enemy.
Media: In terms of map design, will there be the kind of design of the previous Soul series that returned to their familiar scenes in unexpected situations?
Kitao: I can't say no, because the development team actually likes to make this kind of level that connects in unexpected places, but hopes that players can try all kinds of routes in their own way.
Media: We found that this time there were some "blessings" on it, and there were already golden lines roughly guiding the player where to go next. In open areas without these "blessings", what is the way to guide the player to explore unknown areas?
Kitao: This time we deliberately didn't put any very strong guidance on what players had to do or where to go. The golden threads that can be seen on the "blessing" side also provide only a clue. In addition to this, we also set up several accessibility features, such as a bird's-eye mirror in the game, where players can go and observe other places.
There is also a feature that is very useful, because the game is currently only open to a small number of people. So we are also very much looking forward to this feature, that is, the game can use "messages". The development team is very much looking forward to how the various messages can change the game when a large number of players are playing.
Media: FromSoftware in the past several soul series games, are in a limited scale relatively closed map, showing a very wonderful visual and play experience, this time after the use of open world map, will not lead to more difficult design, the content in the subsequent map is diluted, like other open world games, and finally keep piling up duplicate content, resulting in a decline in the experience of the game, how does the development team deal with this problem?
Kitao: It's not about judging or comparing the work of other game companies, it's just about playing to our strengths. We actually find this so-called errand-running game form not interesting, and we prefer to focus on all combat experiences. So when playing this game, you may have a very good rhythmic combat flow, and you may go to a certain point on the map and encounter an exciting and thrilling battle. After experiencing this battle, you can earn the corresponding item, or the corresponding experience points. This will draw you further to explore and encounter more fierce battles.
About the difficulty
Media: FromSoftware's game is difficult, from the beginning of "Demon Souls" to "Dark Souls" 123, players have two voices for such games, one thinks that such a game is good, difficult to be interesting, and the other voice will think that I actually want to get through, but the game is too difficult, can it be simpler. These two voices exist at the same time, how to look at it as a producer.
Kitao: We actually know that games like Bloodborne Curse or Only Wolf: Shadow Death Twice are considered very difficult by many players, and from the perspective of the development team, we never thought of making very hardcore games, or only a small number of players who like this kind of hardcore action game can enjoy it.
For the opinions of the other part of the players who want to play but find it too difficult, we are actually sorry that there is no way to respond to their expectations, but we hope that the game will be made so that more and more people can play.
Because of the three games of Dark Souls, Bloodborne Curse and Only Wolf: Shadow Death Twice, the biggest feature is the sense of achievement after overcoming difficulties, which is also the part that we hope players can enjoy. Removing difficult places and removing difficult situations that are difficult to overcome is not the right way to do it. We hope that more players can challenge, cross the difficulty to get a sense of achievement, as for how to let more players can experience this thing, but also can meet another voice, so that players who are not good at action games or good at other games, can also cross this difficulty through different means, this is the direction we have been working towards.
In addition, we do not make enemies that are absolutely invincible, and even if there are some enemies that are completely impossible to defeat at first glance, we can rely on experience or some ways or strategies that we have come up with on our own. This game also has a design like "soul" or "multiplayer" this can reduce the difficulty of the mechanism, multiplayer part is easier than the "Dark Souls" time, so you can easily ask for help from others, there are these selective elements, I hope that more people can play this game.
Media: The degree of freedom of the game is very high, you can go to many places in the early stage, for players to go to different maps in the early stage, the difficulty difference is not very large, is there an official recommended process strategy order?
Kitao: If you start with Nyingover from the beginning and head to another world called Galid, the enemies there are basically stronger and harder for players to attack at the beginning. The more recommended order is to start with Ningafu, to collect various items, complete various events, and then challenge Stonewehr, which is better. Of course, if you go directly from the Ningmu Gowter to Galid at the beginning, to challenge the stronger enemies over there, increase the level, collect more props, and then go back in a stronger state, of course, there is no problem.
Media: How does FromSoftware balance the role-playing and action parts of Eldon's Ring of Law, such as which ones have to test the player's skills, and which can be greatly reduced in difficulty with items and upgrades?
Kitao: This time we're making Eldon's Circle of Law more RPG games, hoping to have more RPG elements than Dark Souls. In contrast, "Only Wolves" is completely in the form of an action-adventure game. The RPG elements in this "Eldon Ring of Law" can be upgraded or strengthened weapons, and there are many places for players to challenge. Another part that is more like RPG is the weapon faction, and there are different genres of magic. This time, like "Bloodborne Curse", when dealing with a stronger boss, using a special prop, such as a music box, will become easier to play, and this design is also available in "Eldon's Law Ring".
About the Tweaks and PS5 Features of the Official Release
Media: After the last beta, what are the main feedback received from players, and what changes have been made in the official version?
Kitao: We got a lot of praise from players and media friends during the closed beta, and we felt very relieved that we could continue to work hard to develop and adjust the game. There are two main parts to the player's reward, the first is the balance of the game, such as a magic is too strong or a certain weapon is too weak. Adjusting the balance is a relatively low work in the entire game development process, until the last moment before the game is released, we will continue to polish and optimize, this time will also be based on player feedback to compare the details of the adjustment, hoping to make players have a better game experience.
The second part is related to the game function, the game's novice teaching or some mechanics, when developing the game, because we are very accustomed to it, so we will feel that this way the player can understand. However, this closed beta version has actually received feedback from many players about not understanding this way, so they will continue to adjust the text description of the novice teaching, props and items, so that players can understand more easily.
Media: Is there anything that only the PS5 has.
Kitao: In the PS5 version, we tried to add haptic feedback. Using this feature is also a first challenge for us, and it makes it easier for players to immerse themselves in the world of the game. So I hope that if you can have a PS5, you will try to use the PS5 to experience it and feel the game experience brought by haptic feedback.