Talking about Eldon's Ring of Law a month after its release, when most people have reached or are close to completing the level, the feeling at this time will be a lot different from how they felt when they first saw the trailer, the demo version, or just a few days after they started, and the experience and understanding of the "Soul" game will also make people look at the problem from a different perspective. Yesterday, the two Touch Editors expressed their views on the "Old Man Ring" through a conversation, especially about the battle-oriented open world experience and the unique box court design. Today, the two continue to talk about the combat system and the plot aspect, and give their overall impressions of The Ring of Eldon and what it means for the game industry at this point in time.
As with the previous part, this conversation took place before the 1.03 update, but we also added some discussion of the new version after the update.
"Skipping class" and combat experience
Zhu Siqi (hereinafter referred to as "Zhu"): In the battle part of this time, the current public evaluation is good and bad. On the feel alone, I think it is quite cool, especially the performance of various bells and whistles is also unexpectedly good, compared to the "soul" previous game that mainly relies on flat A, it is much more handsome, and a large number of special weapons are also very fun. However, there are also voices that feel that this game is unbalanced, and everyone will feel that the legal system is too strong, the melee combat is too bitter, the boss is too crazy, and the reading instructions is particularly excessive.
Speaking of my own feelings – first of all I've been trained to be a shaky M, and I'm used to being pressed to the ground and rubbing – I feel fine. The premise is that you don't challenge yourself too much, you have to ban summoning, forbidden blue bars... Ashes can indeed help to pull hatred, but it is not so that it can be brainless, unfamiliar moves, face to face fast and slow knives and AoE are as deadly. Overall, the boss performance and data in Eldon's Ring of Law are indeed a little harder than in the previous game, but it doesn't make my blood pressure too high to play.
But I'm not quite sure, for relatively less play, especially for players who enter the "soul" system from the "Ring of Eldon", will they really feel that the combat system is very unsatisfactory?
Yang Zongshuo (hereinafter referred to as "Yang"): I think it should be taken apart. First of all, let's talk about the mage's problem... "unbalanced" is actually very common in single-player games, how many single-player games are balanced? Games with performance differences always have a simpler option (if you have one). In some boss battles, in fact, the legal system is not simple, it still has some requirements for the mid-range stand-up, but it is easier to match the ashes (imitation teardrops and black knives), far from the boss, usually the chance of survival is higher, and many melee moves are blocked. At the same time, the sharpness of the famous knife Moon Cain can also provide some output windows that should not exist for the mage (or magic swordsman), and the use of the knife instead of dodge effectively improves the fault tolerance rate.
(Note: Version 1.03 weakens the sharpening toughness of the famous knife Yueyin.) ）
Zhu: Yes, and I think the version answer, the version of the son of this thing is actually in the past games, for example, in "Bloodborne Curse" is the saw meat knife "eternal god", "Soul" series related to the knife, droplet, ice bayonet, exile knife... And the Dark Sword of the year. I had been worried that Moon Cain would become a new version of the Dark Sword, but even after 1.03 was weakened, it seemed to be quite good to use.
Taking the grace of the Legendary Talisman Golden Tree +2 requires 3 rotten tree spirits in a row, without the sharpening ability of the old version of Moon Cain, I really don't know how to survive
YJ: Another question is, do single-player games need to be as balanced as possible? I'm not sure. I think the location of the Moon Cain and the Meteorite Staff, including the properties of the Meteorite Staff and the unrepaired attributes, is nothing more than Hidetaka Miyazaki's mercy... This must be deliberately made for you to get in the early stages, just so that players who are not familiar with the series of games can also be happy and happy to pass the level, I think this is not a bad thing, meteorite staff or moon, "old cold legs" (frost on the ground) or good...
Wish: No, "old cold legs" are not good! At least the old version did affect my fun of the game, and I would never use it to play boss normally. Once I start using it, it shows that I feel that "this enemy is not worth my serious fight" . Especially later in the game, there will be a lot of bosses in the dungeon, what three crystal people, double furnace knights, double dogs and two orcs... I don't want to fight this kind of thing, it's just annoying, there's no need to take it seriously. You scare me by number, or you're opposite a summon stream, and I'm also summoning a stream, and I'm "old cold legs", right?
Yang: "Old Cold Legs" is indeed a bit excessive... I think what we should object to is to use high-performance weapons to play through the level, while mocking people from other players, or playing their own ascetic games, while mocking people who use moons to pass the level. In general, it is against cyber trolls. As long as the player who uses the in-game mechanics to pass the level should not be ridiculed, even morally attacked, play the game or have fun.
Talked about weapons for half a day, forgot to talk about ashes - yes, we are talking about that one when we talk about ashes!
Wish: No, the black knife is also very good!
YJ: Well, 1.5 is good – anyway, did some say that the wolves are too strong? Probably very few, not to mention the likes of powerful magicians further down. Fighting monsters with water mothers is not "truancy". In the early stages, everything was normal, until there were imitation teardrops...
The imitation teardrops are called "big brothers" by players because of their strength, and +10 ashes can be crushed even in the 1.03 version of the mid-term boss
Zhu: Do you think that the imitation teardrops belong to "skipping class"?
Yang: For "truancy", my attitude is the same as that explained above, I think this is not a "lesson", there is no escape, with "old cold legs" is "skipping class", is the pace of hounds? And is it true that every knife is cut flat? Of course, there are some slippery slopes in this, and we have indeed encountered strict teachers, such as shield anti-teacher furnace knights... I was slashed to the ground by the Knight of the Furnace, and after learning that almost only he could rely on his shield to fight back, I "skipped class" because I didn't think it was worth grinding with him.
But the intensity of the imitation teardrops is really a bit of a problem, it has a cliff with the strength of other ashes, and at a certain point in time, the game has become different, which is the part that I am not very satisfied with. I think the ashes can be used when exploring maps, and boss battles will not be used.
If you think it's good to stomp everything to death with "Old Cold Legs", and you can experience the fun of this game from it, then you can do this, "Old Cold Legs" is not modified, it is completely reasonable and legal. I think it's every player's freedom to take to face these high-performance weapons, ashes and ashes.
Zhu: First of all, I still recommend that you learn to shield anti... Feel good! But you said that it is best not to use ashes in boss battles, which I think is not very realistic, because I can feel that the design of this boss takes the summon flow into account in advance...
YJ: It just so happens that we should go back and talk about the boss design.
Although shield reversal sounds a little difficult, it can sometimes suffer less
Zhu: Even a player like me who shakes M has to admit that the degree of "mad dog" of this game boss is far higher than that of the previous game. You will feel that they have unlimited physical strength and keep making combos, which makes your output space particularly small... It is much better to resist the ashes, and there is no need to use teardrops. Moreover, in the past, the safest place to face the "Soul" boss was actually the closest place to them, and the face rolling could dodge most of the moves, but this generation of AoE and stray enemies were too many, and it would be very irritable during close combat. In fact, even teardrops are easy to die in the face of AoE, not to mention that they are now weakened.
On the other hand, many people say that the enemy reads the instructions too obviously...
Yang: I think it's okay, I don't feel particularly uncomfortable, including the matter of reading instructions. I think that a large part of the discussion about reading instructions now comes from a few weird readings that are too obvious to be stupid, look very funny (poodles, furnace knights, bad omens), and actually have little impact on my combat experience, whether to read or not to read in the future, how to read, or miyazaki Hidetaka's consideration, I will not give ugly. When I was playing knights in the furnace, I was deeply troubled by reading instructions, but calmly thinking that drinking blood at a distance where he might have a spur would have been a gamble, and it would most likely make the action more traceable. Later, I didn't drink blood, tricked him out of the shield and I drank again, of course, this fault tolerance rate is a lot lower, but... They all play the "soul" system, and they still care about what fault tolerance rate.
As for the question of the frequency of attacks, the fight has not made me shout that I can't stand it. Of course, there are a few counterintuitive ingredients, for example, I think three consecutive cuts are almost the same, but in fact, five consecutive cuts followed by AoE... Then I'll roll a few more times in the next life, and that's it, and I won't say that because of this incident, it will affect my evaluation of the game as a whole.
Zhu: Yes, it is normal to catch and drink blood, and it is also very ancestral, casting spells or releasing combat skills to snap or shake back, to avoid being dodged by reading commands, which is also normal operation. It may be that the boss of this work is too crazy, and the attack gap is small, which has caused such a big dissatisfaction. I think this work looks like a "soul", but it actually feels a little more radical to play, between the traditional "soul" duo and "Bloodborne Curse".
After all, the shield of "Eldon's Ring of Law" is really too brittle, version 1.03 strengthens the resistance, but weakens the "iron wall shield defense", may not be able to resist in addition to the fingerprint stone shield, close rolling and easy to be AoE. You can only fill the boss's hidden posture bar as soon as possible, so that the opposite side has been hard and straight, and don't make those mad dog moves. At least in the old version, I would sometimes count the number of knives and bosses, and most of the time I would be able to execute them just before the boss hit me. If I were just chasing through the level, the combat system didn't bother me particularly much. After the new version cuts the moon, I may be more cautious.
Yang: Bloodborne Curse also has a mechanism to attack blood immediately after injury, but it is still slightly slower in Eldon's Ring of Law. I think what I do more often in combat is avoidance, avoidance, avoidance, and then find one of the output windows and hit two knives, and then avoid... Because I'm the Moon Hidden Man.
Zhu: However, even though I just said that the combat ideas are different and need to be adapted, I do think that the numerical design of this work is a little strange, and the later it is, the less like a week. The player's attack power is increased very high, the combat skill is nearly a thousand, or even more, while the boss may have more than 20,000 blood. In addition, even if your health reaches 40, there are 1,560,000, or you will die with two stabs.
"First point the blood to 40" is no longer a play terrier in this game, and the situation that 40 blood can only resist the two knives of the late boss will hardly appear in the previous week
Yang: I think this is to integrate the multi-week process into the one-week experience. For you, the complete flow of the "Soul" series may be three weeks or more, but there are also people who will finish the level. For me, the freshness of the two-week eye change is far less than that of a new game. Even though the monster may have some variations, players can try different Builds, which is very different from the experience of trembling at first sight, but it is still not as good as a new game. I think it's good to integrate the two-week eye into the one-week eye process like "Eldon's Law Ring", and it is also a new monster, but the value looks like the two weekly eye, which is very good for me. Before it was possible to play through the level in 40 or 50 hours, now 100 hours may still be around, one game when two play it.
Zhu: Indeed, the strength of the map of the Sacred Tree feels equivalent to DLC. The soft upper limit of this work is also much higher than the original, which is to let you upgrade more.
Yang: How good is that, a game body is equivalent to the annual version, go back and produce a "Eldon's Ring of Law: Old Law Ring" DLC, a game when 4 play, wouldn't it be beautiful.
Wish: I don't really want DLC, this game is too long for me.
Yang: I also feel tired occasionally, but I always get back to my enthusiasm quickly... Mainly by watching Teacher Chi Cheng get beaten.
Main plot and character development
Zhu: In terms of worldview and plot, the biggest highlight of this time should be George W. Bush. R· R Martin's addition. What do you think Martin's addition does to the game?
Yang: Martin wrote a backstory this time, and the specific plot should be played by FromSoftware itself. I don't have a deep feeling for the main plot, but Old Man Martin is really good, and my biggest hobby now is to go to the forum to discuss the night of the black knife.
The game is dotted with such sword tablets that record the history of the Fragmented War, and the story may have come from Martin's hand
Zhu: Martin's intervention played a role, and I feel that there are two aspects: positive and negative. On the positive side, the story is indeed more complex than the previous one. Not only is it the Shard War and the original night of intrigue, npCs have their own faction, and there will be conflicts and alliances between them. As can be seen from the ending, there are 4 options for the cultivation ring alone.
It's not like passing fire, it's a simple thing. As long as you are willing to burn, the age of fire can continue, maintain a normal appearance, even if it does not last long. All in all, you'll feel like sacrificing yourself for a good thing. But in practicing the Falun Gong, you can only satisfy the wishes of some people at a time, depending on whether you want to keep your eyes closed, whether you have sympathy for the dead, whether you have a grudge against the whole world like a dung eater, or whether you are willing to obey the golden mask and give up your feelings as a human being for the sake of the correctness of the law...
The complexity of cultivating the Falun Gong makes me feel that this story has indeed been given more depth. Because of the various NPC branches, players are also influenced by more things when making choices. In addition, the "soul" plot has always been more touching to the shaping of small characters, especially blacksmiths, tuners, and small tailors, including Vic, who almost became king in the past, and they continue the "soul" warmth. Even in such a grand narrative, what prompted me to make the final decision was the will of these little people, not some supreme will.
The blacksmith is perhaps the character in the whole story that makes me feel the most emotional connection
But on the opposite side, it is that the Martin-style family struggle is put in the open after it is expressed, and the dark and sad aesthetic that the "soul" department is good at, and the roots are still very Japanese... It's not Martin's problem, A Song of Ice and Fire is very well written and I particularly like it. It's just that I'm not too willing to spend dozens of hours, as if I'm mixing up other people's family affairs, even if the family is a god. After all, they have nothing to do with the protagonist in essence, and the more I go back, the less driven I am. In the previous work "Soul", there is also a struggle between the Gwen family and the city of Ruslik, but it will not be so large an ink performance, and the impact on the protagonist's fire itself is very small. In this game, I even think it would be more interesting to simply play Vic on the path of being deceived and failing.
YJ: I think it could be DLC.
Zhu: As for the overall atmosphere, look at the majestic music and art effects of the CG in the opening film, and the slogan of the store page... "Let's go." This translation is already a bit more moderate than the English dubbing.
Yang: The English sound like Arise very loud, but the Japanese version doesn't seem to mean it strongly.
Wish: Arise, sounds like a hero. You and the important NPCs in the opening CG are people who have come to the narrow space from outside the fog, a bit like a herd of deer. You're not like the undead and the ashes (the Dark Souls series) and share the fate of this place; you're not a hunter (Bloodborne Curse), trapped in a nightmare and have to find a way out. Your purpose is very strong, that is, you have been exiled before, and now you are back in this place, and you are going to be king.
This setting gives me the feeling that the Fader should be very capable, and that the King of Eldon is also a very powerful and powerful name, and everyone wants to fight, the Shard King and the Fader want to fight. The original king, Ge Fulei, and later Ladagan, were able to take the initiative to conquer the north and south. Although the king must bind a god, you may be under god, but you are a practical ruler to the people below.
But in the struggle to be the king of Eldon such a very ... Under the high atmosphere, the default ending is still made into a sad face of the salary king, as if the next moment will be pulled to burn. Predecessors or mirror roles, Bernal and Vic also actively or passively abandoned. This always gives me a sense of separation. While the game renders the so-called kingly spirit, it still "repairs the old order" or "changes to a law that is more unfamiliar and does not know what the difference is", or "burned all"... I know that the "Soul" series of king tools is traditional, but "Eldon's Ring of Law" makes me feel particularly incongruous, as if the two groups of creators are not completely unified.
Compared with the important characters in the main line, the shaping of the "soul" of the small characters is more typical
Of course, this may be my prejudice as a "soul" elder, and I don't know if it is related to Sir Baizhi's branch line with a beginning and a tail. Wouldn't your perception of the plot be different without being so much influenced by your predecessors?
Yang: My opinion mainly focuses on character building. I don't deny that characters like "Broken Star" Rataen are well portrayed, but most of them don't feel so good to me. In particular, the two important female characters, Melina and La ni , may be related to cutting branches, but Melina's presence is too thin, resulting in a dramatic conflict near the end that has little effect on the player. La Ni is exactly like the player's boss, arranging the work, but nothing is explained clearly, the final ending is also unclear, I don't know why I want to help her, and I don't know what it means to help her.
As the main force of publicity, Melina does not have much actual drama
La Ni is not very enthusiastic about players most of the time
Overall, this generation has a little less epic, and I often feel like I'm living in a world of "Old Lady Uncle"... Of course, it may be a bit too much to say... Another thing is that the side lines are cut too much, I can't even find a few "fully achieved" side quests, the Neferi line has not made much progress after the 1.03 version update, the kettle village does not know if it is finished, and there is no follow-up after Patch gave me a drum... The ending of Mr. Seren is very abrupt, the line of the teardrops seems to be gone, and Melina may have more plots, and this feeling of trying hard but finding nothing makes me very disappointed.
Zhu: Do these character-building issues have any impact on your gaming experience?
YJ: There is a part of it. Before playing "pick-up" Greg, many NPCs said that he was not a good thing, and you can also find a lot of failed works and remains of the adapter in Stoneville, and I will have a little "I came to overthrow you" mood for Greg as a person.
Wish: Greg is exactly that, and CG is well shaped.
Yang: But when I got to the Magic Academy, I was a little confused, I knew some of the backstory of the Magic Academy, like they were self-enclosed and so on... But why should I fight the Queen of the Full Moon? Aside from the fact that I need big Lune to be king, I don't have a too strong drive. The Full Moon Queen herself was dumbfounded, the Boss Battle was also very confused, and I was a little confused myself. But it's not bad to play "Broken Star" Rataen. I don't like the feeling of this kind of group fight, but overall it is flawed.
Zhu: I don't feel bad about the group battle of "Broken Star", and I feel that it is a reproduction of the White King Battle of Dark Souls 2 DLC3. That battle was special throughout the Souls series, crowded, and tragic, but not fully done for various reasons. The performance effect of "Broken Star", including the difficulty, makes me feel that I have made up for the bad breath of the past, and the concept of farewell is also very special.
Yang: What do you think the charm of the "soul" boss is made up of?
Zhu: Part of it is that the moves are well designed, even if they suffer, they also make people feel very happy. The other part, they are able to provide some emotional value, especially the particularly difficult boss. The more bosses make me suffer, the higher my need for emotional value becomes, because I need a motivation to keep me going and challenge it over and over again. In the main line of "Eldon's Circle of Law", there are not many bosses who can make me feel this way.
The Valkyrie is hard and gorgeous, I was killed to the point of unconsciousness, but that battle mechanic made me very irritable, plus it was originally a hidden boss, and the plot did not particularly attract me... And it turned out to be like you said, "Why am I going to hit her?" Or even, "Why did I spend hours beating her?" "Even living the water bird dance didn't give me much happiness, and learning to hide from this didn't make me feel like a better player." She didn't touch me as well as the Evil Zhao King who was alone in the royal city, although the latter was not very good at fighting... The beast of Eldon at the end of the main line is also beautiful and shocking in sound and painting, but it fights like a big dinosaur swimming...
In the end, the boss looks great, but the combat experience is very bloody
Players who only pursue the thrill of battle can certainly not care about these things. But the most shocking boss battles in the "Soul" series are often very emotional, and they do not even need to understand the plot in advance, and they can appreciate the fate of this character and the world from just one battle. For example, "Sword Saint" is one heart, you can feel that it is actually a battle that the entire Reed name has no regrets before accepting the fate of destruction. Also, when you face the slave knight Gale, you will find that the end of the Age of Fire is so lonely and desolate, there is no god and no hero...
I don't know if I'm expecting too much... Haven't you also played the "Holy Sword" Ludwig in the Bloodborne Curse DLC? He is the typical boss with high emotional value, defeating bestiality and taking out the dignity of a hunter to fight you.
YJ: Ludwig is really good, just fighting has shaped the character. There really isn't a boss in Eldon's Ring of Law that makes me feel that way. Does the "Black Sword" Malikas count? If you first fill the Beast Temple with dead roots and then challenge, he will recognize you during the boss battle, and the lines will be different.
Zhu: The black sword is okay, but this feeling is mainly what I got from the reminiscence story later. For example, on the one hand, he was betrayed, and on the other hand, he was always trapped in guilt... Still a wolf knight! As for the battle itself, the cool feel is more than the heavy feeling, the special effects are full, and the scene is full of chaos.
Yang: It's still a bit brittle, you hit it for a while and it's gone. If the second stage had a single strip of blood, I think it might have been a little better.
Wish: Card this boss man will hate you!
Yang: I'm sorry! There are also some boss battles that I think the design is relatively unsuccessful, such as the big snake.
Zhu: I'm sorry, I'm going to say that sentence again, "This is ancestral"...
Yang: I really didn't feel any positive feedback from this ancestral thing, I just poked him like playing an invisible Monster Hunter spear. I've learned about bosses with similar mechanics before, like "Only a storm can knock down a tree", but at that time the game will provide some emotional help in it, and the volcano snake is a bit crazy demigod... In one stage, I was even just fighting snakes, and everything in the fight was stabbing, which made me feel no sense of participation.
Blasphemy against King Lakkard, or a snake spear poking and poking Le?
Overall evaluation
Zhu: Finally, let's talk about the overall evaluation. For example, why is "Eldon's Ring of Law" so special in the "Soul" series of works, and why can it be fired out of the circle this time?
Yang: On the one hand, online live broadcasting has evolved again, "Only Wolves" is already quite hot, the open world will be a little hotter, 2016's "Dark Souls 3" is not so hot, may also be related to live broadcasting, I think it is still a change of times.
Also, "Eldon's Ring of Law" has been laying the groundwork for too long, everyone knows that there is such a game, everyone knows that it should be very good, and the cooperation between star producer Hidetaka Miyazaki and Uncle Martin is also very exciting, and fire is very normal. All along, I think people expect Ayrden's French Rings as much as they expect cyberpunk 2077.
Zhu: Selling people is also an aspect, for example, several colleagues in our company once felt that the "soul" monster was terrible and did not play, and now because the scenery in "Eldon's Ring of Law" is good, they are willing to try.
Yang: They will find out that they have been deceived...
Wish: I see they are still very happy! However, the first impression of "Eldon's Law" and the actual game do have a certain difference. I didn't say that it exaggerated the meaning of publicity, the trailer player mowed the grass, into the game was mowed by monsters is also ancestral. The game itself was pretty good, and I was addicted to it. But it does seem more intimate and exuberant than its predecessors... Then, there will be all kinds of people who are not quite accustomed to its overall style. I didn't fit in a sense either.
And after playing so many Souls, I personally would like to see a different combat system... Even if I love "Only Wolves" in general, it at least refreshes me. Therefore, my original expectations of the "ring" will be even more different.
Not only the combat system, but also some of the side plots that seem to be copied and pasted from the previous works are also quite subtle
Yang: I think this thing FromSoftware must have considered, this is a game that everyone is looking forward to, and it is working with Martin, and Miyazaki Hideko himself will be under pressure, and this game is not allowed to fail.
You can see what the bad things about Cyberpunk 2077 bring to CDPR, and Hidetaka Miyazaki certainly doesn't want Eldon's Ring of Law to go down that path. A studio that takes years to have a game means that if something goes wrong, it can be ruined. Even if it fails, it will fail in a game of the size of "Only Wolf", "Eldon's Ring of Law" is too big, it must not fail... So, they can't sculpt a different combat system in the open world at the same time, maybe in the future — after Eldon's Circle of Law, people expect more from FromSoftware, so there may be. But I also have concerns about whether we can go back to playing the "soul" game of "Only Wolf" (I never thought I would use "small and fine" to describe "only wolf").
Wish: Just on behalf of myself, I would be more willing to go back and play that kind of work. I've been joking about wanting to pick up Bloodborne Curse again, and it's still the perfect.
Yang: You're really playing, I saw...
One of my other concerns is, how long will we have to wait until the next Airdon's Ring of Law? And after playing this game, you'll compare all of these games to The Eldon's Ring of Laws to the other games that are close to it— the Souls series, the Souls series, any open-world game, or even traditional ARPG.
Zhu: So strict?
Yang: I think so, you'll have a mysterious scale in your heart, even if they shouldn't be compared. But when you play an open-world game, you think, why don't I play Eldon's Ring, or how it's different from Airdon's. I think it's an intangible value judgment, and you probably don't think that something is similar to The Eldon's Circle of Law and take the initiative to evaluate it, but you will have such a thought in your head. When you play "Canned," you feel like it's not the same as it used to be, and then you think of Eldon's Ring of Law, just as we used to pull out The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild every time we encountered an open world.
Even a lot of games that are completely different from Eldon's Circle of Law will be impacted... But it's not a bad thing from the player's point of view, and for the makers, they definitely have to carry more pressure. At the level of "Eldon's Circle of Law", it is no longer a game that can be walked out of the routine, it needs a good enough and strong enough producer, but also some pioneering ideas and solid basic skills. It's unrealistic for you to expect all open-world games to turn out like this...
For me, Eldon's emphasis on combat puts it in a special position, and the light combat experience may not be as good as That of Wolves and Bloodborne Curse, but it's also a massive open-world game. If you're talking about exploration in the open world, it's The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wilderness; when you talk about combat, it's Eldon's Ring of Law; if you talk about side quests, it's The Witcher 3. They're doing a good job in one part, good enough, and they're going to leave an impression on players for a long time, which is the impact that I think Eldon's Ring of Law will have on the gaming industry.