The poet Nishikawa has been interested in traditional Chinese culture in recent years. Following the publication of "Reading Tang Poems" in 2018, he appeared in the CCTV documentary "Traveling with Tang Poems" a few days ago, and his Song painting research monograph "Northern Song Dynasty: Landscape Painting Utopia" was also recently released.
As one of the few Chinese poets who have truly attracted the attention of the international poetry scene, Nishikawa's poems and essays have been included in a variety of important international anthologies and widely translated, and published in newspapers and magazines in more than 30 countries, including top literary magazines such as the Paris Review of the United States, the Times Literary Supplement of the United Kingdom, and the Writing International of Germany. Why does a person who has already completed "self-modernization" turn his attention to traditional Chinese culture?
Today, Movable Type Jun shared with book friends an interview with Nishikawa teacher in Modern Express, "Nishikawa: Dealing with the Times Like Du Fu". The poet said: "I love ancient Chinese culture and ancient Chinese literature infinitely. But the core of all my thinking is not ancient culture, but contemporary, and I put special emphasis on being a contemporary person. ”
Nishikawa: Deal with the times like Du Fu did
Chen Xi | Wen
This article was originally published in The Weekly Magazine of Modern Express newspapers in December 2021
01
Nishikawa was a fan of Li Bai when he was young, but as he grew older, he admired Du Fu more and more, and he envied Du Fu's unparalleled ability to write reality in poetry.
Li Bai and Du Fu, two big stars, have intersected in orbit, which is the wonder of the world's poetry starry sky, but the two people are actually different. Wen Yiduo even asserted: "The personalities of the two are fundamentally in conflict. It may be a bit too much to say: although the personalities of the two are different, they do not necessarily have to be "conflicted". In contrast, Du Fu was a Confucian, and his poetry was rooted in the orthodox atmosphere of the Central Plains and was closely linked to the real society. If Li Bai's way of imagination comes from seawater and mirages, then Du Fu's way of imagination comes from the growth and withering of the land and everything on the land. (The Writing Scene of the Tang Dynasty.) The Relationship Between Poets", "Reading Tang Poems", 130 pp.
The first episode of CCTV Documentary Channel's "Traveling with Tang Poems" is about Du Fu, who embarks on a journey to find a safe place in Du Fu's later years. In the chaos of Anshi, the Tang Dynasty flourished and declined, and Du Fu experienced a life of national destruction and family death. In his later years, he drifted thousands of miles from southern Gansu to the Sichuan Basin, drifting along the Yangtze River, and finally walking his life on the Xiang River. The poet did not forget to write poetry, like a diary, using poetry to record his actions and deeds.
In Longnan, Xichuan imagined Du Fu dragging his family through the mountains and mountains. He said that before reading Du Fu's poems, he knew that Du Fu was on the run, but he didn't think much about it. When he saw the width of the ancient boardwalk, he immediately thought that Du Fu was not walking alone, but a large group of people, and the difficulty was much greater than walking alone. So he understood why Du Fu used a word in the poem, "tired of the mountain"—too many mountains, dragging the family with the mouth, too troublesome. This is not a state of mind at all with Li Bai's "Five Peaks Seeking Immortals Without Quitting".
"If you don't come to Longnan and don't see these mountains with your own eyes, you won't understand what Du Fu went through along the way, which is the most difficult part of the road to enter Shu." Nishikawa said.
There is a place in Longnan called Qingniling, and Li Bai's poem "Shu Dao Difficulty" "Qingni He Panpan" refers to this place. Nishikawa originally thought that "green mud" meant "muddy roads". This walk corrected his original wrong understanding.
In Mupiling, where Du Fu had written, the local village party secretary was able to blurt out Du Fu's poems, which made Nishikawa realize that ordinary Chinese have been handed down from generation to generation for what happened locally, no matter how long ago.
What he particularly admires is those "local talents" who are extremely familiar with the local mountain scenery and characters. After completing the shooting of Huixian County, the guide boy Wang Yi took Xichuan to the nearby Chengxian County to see the Han Dynasty Moya stone carving "Ode to the Western Narrow". There are stone carvings of different dynasties on the mountain walls along the way, which are not specially marked, but Wang Yi cherishes them.
I asked him, why not write a book? Wang Yi said: If you don't write, you will be very satisfied to know. Then he took me here and there. Nishikawa said that there are such "local talents" all over China, they are very powerful people, read a lot of books, but do not show publicity, have no ambition, keep to themselves, but have their own views on the problem.
The place that impressed Nishikawa the most was also in Bongjie. Nishikawa ascended to the highest peak of Mount Wu, where the "Cloud Rain of Mount Wu" took place. When he stood at the top of the mountain and looked down, two ancient poems immediately popped up in his mind: "Jiang into the Gate Mountain Ghost Look, Cloud Lost Wuling Song Yu Lament" - Xichuan said that at that moment, not only Li Bai and Du Fu, but also Qu Yuan and Song Yu were thought of, and the entire literary history was churned up.
On this trip, Xichuan wrote several ancient poems, feeling closer to Du Fu.
02
Today we say that Du Fu is a "realist", and Nishikawa feels that this label is far from enough to discuss Du Fu. He liked Du Fu, not only because of the titles of "poetic history" and "poetic saint", but also because he was also a poet, he was interested in Du Fu's writing style, and Du Fu was able to write his life in that era directly into poetry.
Nishikawa said that throughout the ages, the average person would think that there is no poetry in the present. "Suddenly one day a chemical plant explodes, an oil spill, groundwater pollution, a stock market crashes, you try to write poetry, you can't write, because your literary language from others can't handle this kind of thing, because you don't invent language." 」
In the face of the Anshi Chaos, Du Fu wrote it directly into the poem, he was "a man who eats raw meat". In this regard, Nishikawa regarded Du Fu as an example, "My writing materials are also raw. Many people's poetry material is familiar, that is, how many times others have written it and he is still writing. ”
In Nishikawa's view, the only great poet shaped by the Anshi Rebellion was Du Fu. In front of Du Fu, wang Wei's pre-Anshi chaos of Chang'an poetry interest was invalidated. Du Fu developed something that Wang Wei did not have: contemporaneity. Many of Du Fu's poems deal with the present, and he creatively intervened in the "changes of the Tang and Song Dynasties" with poetic writing. And Li Bai was still lyrical after the Anshi Rebellion, "but using Dongshan Xie Anshi to talk and laugh for the jun" - "A person who is arrogant to the head of the country is still so arrogant, transforming literary arrogance into political arrogance, which is also a spectacle." ”
Pictured: The Inner Page of "The Reading of Tang Poems"
Today we say that Du Fu is great, Du Fu is worried about the country and the people, and when he walks into the scene of the poet's life, Nishikawa can see the mortal side of Du Fu. "For example, Du Fu cried all day long, but when he was at his most difficult, that is, at the time of fengjie, he also used three servants, one of whom was a minority, and he wrote in his poems."
Nishikawa reminds that Du Fu is difficult, but his kind of difficulty is not exactly the same as the current understanding of "difficulty". He was a scholar of the Tang Dynasty, and he came from a large family, although he did not ascend to the Jinshidi, he was also a member of the ruling class, "Jiangnan Feng Li Gui Nian" said, 'Qi Wang's mansion is common, Cui Jiutang has heard it several times before', 'common', that means that he himself often goes. Which poet now comes in and out of the prince's mansion all day long? ”
"We thought Du Fu was one of the vulnerable groups, but he wasn't. Although Du Fu was a small official, his friends were tall and tall! He borrowed money from Gao Shi and said with a straight face: "In order to ask Peng Zhoumu, when will I save the emergency?" When are you coming to help me? We're embarrassed to say that now, but it was okay for their friends to do that. Nishikawa said.
03
After the broadcast of "Traveling with Tang Poems", many people told Nishikawa that they should let the children at home see it and better "understand Tang poems".
"Of course, Tang poems can be read to children today, but Tang poems were not written for children to see." Nishikawa said that if we only read Tang poems from the perspective of children's education, we simply cannot understand ancient Chinese culture.
"From today's point of view, reading ancient poems for a certain kind of education, a certain kind of aesthetics, and a certain kind of cultivation is completely different from really entering the ranks of scholars, writing poems, and climbing up. This means that poetry, its function in ancient times and its function in today's, is not the same. ”
In the Tang Dynasty, poetry writing was tied to the entire political, educational, and official selection system. In conjunction with the entrance examination, there is a "line paper system", before the exam, you have to visit the Secretary of State shuoru and the person who holds the power of the exam, and hand in your poetry, in the hope that they can have a good impression of you and get a good ranking in the exam.
"In the Imperial Examination of the Tang Dynasty, only a dozen or twenty people were admitted every year, and at most thirty or so, which was much more difficult than today's national examination. All the Tang Dynasty poets we read today are the tip of the people. We cannot look at The culture of the Tang Dynasty from the perspective of the era of mass culture. ”
Nishikawa feels that on the one hand, we are enthusiastic about traditional culture, but on the other hand, we are full of misunderstandings. What we call the state of the ancients is actually only the state of a very small number of people in ancient life. The ancients, whom we often talk about, did not live like we do today.
"For example, Bai Juyi said that his poem 'old woman can understand', but the site of Bai Juyi's former residence in Luoyang Ludaofang covers an area of 17 acres. What a big garden! You live in the unit building now, and you feel like you can get close to Bai Juyi? ”
Nishikawa's Reading Of Tang Poems (Beijing Publishing House, 2018)
So, were the ancients really unattainable? How should I read Tang poems today? Nishikawa's approach, first of all, is in posture, not to read Tang poems, but to treat themselves as their contemporaries, to put themselves in the background of their times, to break the secrets of their creation. To this end, he specially wrote a small book "The Reading method of Tang poems".
In a sense, this book is disenchanting The Tang poems that have been "enshrined": First, today's views on Tang poems are based on the "Three Hundred Tang Poems", and what we see is only the Tang poems "greatness without shadows", but if you look through the fifty thousand "Quan Tang Poems", you will find that there are many mediocre works; second, the Tang people also have a routine in writing poetry, there are "portable volumes" such as today's writing reference books, and once we peek into the technical secrets of the Tang poetry, we will have a feeling of "but so" for the Tang poetry.
04
At that time, the "Three Musketeers of Peking University Poetry" Nishikawa, Haizi and Luo Yihe, who were in the limelight, are now only Nishikawa still fighting alone.
Speaking of the "golden age" of poetry, Nishikawa said that if he met an old friend and talked about the events of that year, he would follow along and talk excitedly. But he has a view that people who endlessly miss the 80s are people who are no longer improving. "The '80s were good, but one should keep moving one's work forward."
As a poet who has full communication with the international poetry scene, keeps abreast of the progress of international poetry creation, and "the spirit does not stop growing", Nishikawa bluntly said that most readers cannot keep up with the progress of his writing, and critics cannot keep up with the progress of his thinking. "Most people think that the poems I wrote in the early days were poems, but the poems I wrote later were not. They were more receptive to my early, more poetic-like poems. ”
Nishikawa Ink on paper 79cm×139cm 2017
Nishikawa's main role in life is poet, but writing poetry does not take up much of his time. As a poet and scholar, his desk work is divided into several parts: writing poetry, doing translation (which has basically stopped now), doing research on classical Chinese literature (the reading method of Tang poetry has been published), and doing research on ancient Chinese painting (just published "Northern Song Dynasty: Landscape Painting Utopia"). He used to teach classical Chinese literature at the Central Academy of Fine Arts for a long time, so paying attention to ancient culture is not a "prodigal son turning back" when he is old, but always paying attention.
Nishikawa Mountain Wall, Ink on paper, 59cm×74cm, 2017
Because of his rich experience in international exchanges, every time he goes out, Nishikawa always thinks of comparing Chinese literature with world literature and with the literature of other countries, which also deepens his desire to discuss Chinese literature and Chinese culture.
"Even if I focus on ancient Chinese culture today, the core of my thinking is not ancient culture, but contemporary. I put special emphasis on being a contemporary. Contemporary people face the problem of the present, and if you want to solve it, you may have to go back and liberate the future by liberating the past. Nishikawa said.
Nishikawa has mentioned in many interviews that the motivation for writing "The Reading method of Tang Poems" was the resent that some people constantly compared Tang poems with new poems, and questioned when contemporary poets could write poems in "Three Hundred Tang Poems". He has always been quite confident in his creation and thought, and hopes to give answers to some of the problems in ancient Chinese culture that have long plagued contemporary creation, which are in line with today's vision, intellectual level and the energy of the times.
Nishikawa also has much to say about the modern situation of traditional Chinese culture. He once mentioned a concept in the article - "nationalism with heavy tastes", which refers to the return of cultural self-confidence to our life scene with the development of the domestic economy, and the dissemination of it through the Internet and other media, forming an absolutist respect for Chinese tradition.
"You read Heidegger and Lacan all day long, and the ancients read the "History", "Book of Han", "Book of Later Han", "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", we are no longer in the context of an ancient text, how do you comment on the ancients? It is not a culture of the times, so I can only sing praises and feel that the ancients are good everywhere. ”
Nishikawa loves ancient Chinese culture so much, but he is also particularly disgusted by this argument that the ancients were all good at everything. "Back to the ancient culture, in fact, I am not confident enough in the contemporary era, and I feel that the present cannot provide a complete value and world view, so I flocked to the ancients." And the ancients' set of things cannot solve contemporary problems. ”
Nishikawa Mountain Height 1 Graphite on paper 43cm×98cm 2017
As a writer, dealing with the times like Du Fu has always been a great temptation for Nishikawa. He has just finished writing a long poem about the epidemic, which uses some realistic material, such as writing various news directly into poetry at the beginning, and then slowly shrinking into his own experience, and the feeling of poetry is getting stronger and stronger. "My material is all raw. If you process these raw materials, it is possible to succeed, it is possible to die, and it is possible to have unexpected effects. Nishikawa said.
Nishikawa is a poet, essay and essayist, and translator. He graduated from the English Department of Peking University in 1985. He is a Juniper Writer in the International Writing Program at the University of Iowa (2002), a Visiting Professor in the Department of East Asian Studies at New York University (2007), and a Visiting Artist at the University of Victoria, Canada (2009). He was a professor and librarian of the School of Humanities of the Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing, and is now a distinguished professor of Beijing Normal University. He has published about thirty books of various works, including the poetry collection "Depth", the poetry collection "Enough dreams", the long essay "Wandering and Gossiping: A Chinese Trip to India", the essay collection "The Great River Turns and the Big Bend: A Poetic Thought Exploring Possibilities", the monograph "Reading Tang Poems", "Northern Song Dynasty: Landscape Painting Utopias" (i.e., out), the translation of Milosz's ABCs, and the Borges at Eighty (Borges at Eighty: Conversations) and so on. He was awarded the Lu Xun Literature Award (2001) and the Annual Selection of China's Book Industry. Author of the Year Award (2018), Top 10 Global Essay Competition in Weimar, Germany (1999), Martin Songxuan Poetry Prize in Sweden (2018), Tokyo Poetry Prize in Japan (2018), etc. His poems and essays have been included in a variety of anthologies and widely translated, and have been published in newspapers and magazines in nearly thirty countries. The 2019 Berlin Poetry Festival brochure praised Nishikawa as "one of the greats of contemporary poetry."
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