I think Conrad was the leading novelist| Borges

∞ Borges Talk, 2014

Borges at Eighty

Conversations，1982

Translated × Borges Nishikawa

The Republic of China | Guangxi Normal University Press

I think Conrad is the one who is dominant

Novel writer

10. Excerpt from "I Always Have Fear in the Mirror"

The Nightmare，That Tiger of the Dream

Indiana University, April 1980

Indiana University，April 1980

KOFA: Let's go back to idealism for a moment. I want to ask you about a philosopher. As far as I know, this person doesn't have much influence on you. He was the Spanish philosopher Ortega.[1] I'm not saying I want to ask you for advice, but I'm asking about a piece you wrote about him—

Borges: Did I write about it?

KOFA: Yes, you wrote about it. It's about a topic he's dealt with. The title is not surprising. As far as I know, he has dealt with any subject.

Borges: I haven't read his stuff.

Kofa: Your article discusses Ortega's theory of the novel. Simply put, his view is —

Borges: It is impossible for people to invent new plots. But people are always inventing new plots. Detective writers, for example, are always inventing new plots.

KOFA: You're right. He focused on the difference between substance and function. He argues that until 1900, not only science, but literature was also based on functional concepts, and the original purpose was not taken seriously.

Borges: What does it mean to be purposeful and functional? I don't understand.

KOFAR: I was repeating his words.

Borges: But he should explain it so that others can understand. What does he mean by "function"? Is he talking about plot?

Kofa: I think he's referring to the structure of a novel that is independent of the psychology of the characters.

Borges: This cannot be generalized. As far as short stories are concerned, plot is the primary issue, but for long novels, plot is less important. What really matters is the characters. Plot and character psychology—the phrase "character psychology" is less accurate—perhaps important in Henry James's short stories. Both are important in Kipling's short stories. But in the case of don Quixote, the case is another matter.

People pay a little more attention to those adventure stories than to the characterization. They are his hallmarks, and we need those stories in order to understand Him. All of Don Quixote's adventures are a molding of Don Quixote. Those stories are all about showing us who he is. Of course, in a deeper sense, so many adventure stories are inherently irrelevant and not very exciting, but they provide a function, because after reading Don Quixote, we know who he is. When we read this book, we are always Don Quixote or Alonso Gijano.

Many books can also achieve this effect, such as George Meredith's novel "The Egoist" and so on. These books represent characters. In other novels, what matters is the behavior and the surprise you get at the end of the book.

In most adventure novels, I would say that in Stevenson's Treasure Island, in One Thousand and One Nights, it's the adventure story that's important rather than the characters. Without those adventure stories, it's hard for the characters to stand on their feet. Adventure is paramount.

KOFA: It seems that what Ortega is talking about is —

Borges: I don't think Ortega has read many novels, has he?

KOFA: I don't know.

Borges: Oh, he doesn't know English, so he can't read the best novels in the world.

KOFA: I don't know. But it looks like he's accusing us of ignoring the plot...

Borges: I don't see it that way. I'm probably always thinking about new plots. My plot is probably quite rich.

KOFA: I think you're right. But in short, he seems to be saying —

Borges: I know. What he wanted to see was a novel like Pete's Marius the Hedonist, wasn't he? Nothing actually happens in fiction. This kind of novel is written for the elderly. In my opinion, he used this kind of novel as a model, didn't he?

KOFAR: Proust, even though he couldn't even bear Proust a little bit.

Borges: Yes, and Henry James, Meredith, Pete.

KOFA: You call these people's novels psychological novels.

Borges: I personally appreciate both novels. I appreciate the plot and I appreciate the characters.

Kofa: Since he admired this kind of novel, as a philosopher, he thought he had to prove that this kind of novel was the only one that could be accepted.

Borges: Let me think about it. In Shakespeare, you believe the characters and you don't believe the plot. We all believe in Hamlet, who is far more authentic than I am. But I didn't believe in his father's ghost, nor did I believe in his mother. I couldn't convince myself of the plot of the play.

The same is true of Macbeth. I believe in Macbeth, Mrs. Macbeth, and even in the three witches, who are the embodiment of fate, but I don't believe in the plot of the play.

Kofa: So on the one hand there are psychological novels, where the first element is the characters, and what happens doesn't really matter; on the other hand—

Borges: I thought, in Conrad, both were important. I think Conrad is the leading novelist. What do you think of Conrad? People value both his story and his characters. So in fact the two are not opposites. We've talked about both now.

Editor's Note:

[1] José Ortega y Gasset (1883–1955) was a Spanish philosopher, political theorist, and essayist.

All of Don Quixote's adventures are a molding of Don Quixote. Those stories are all about showing us who he is. Of course, in a deeper sense, so many adventure stories are inherently irrelevant and not very exciting, but they provide a function, because after reading Don Quixote, we know who he is.

—Translated by Borges | Nishikawa

—Reading and Rereading—

The Republic

Titled by Nelson Rosa Junior

behance.net/nelsonrosajunior