Liang Xiaosheng talked about "The World of Man": I want to make up for the history of the early days of reform and opening up for young people

The original interview program "Learning to Strengthen the Country" on the learning platform "Learning to Strengthen the Country" invited Liang Xiaosheng, winner of the "Mao Dun Literature Award", the original author of "The World of Man" and the writer, to share the stories written in front of and behind the scenes of this book.

What inspired Liang Xiaosheng's original intention of creation, let him use his rich life accumulation and real life experience to create a huge masterpiece full of the texture of the times; the writer's inner pursuit of self-question: how to accompany the word "change" with the words "change". Let's get closer to the writer Liang Xiaosheng.

Writer Liang Xiaosheng and publisher Li Shidong made guest appearances on "Learning to Strengthen the Country" Zero Distance, sharing the stories written in front of and behind the scenes of this work.

Talk about the original intention of the creation

The creation of "The World" is first and foremost based on the emotional basis of family life. My father was a "third-line" worker, so in the father-son relationship, there was relatively little time together, especially after the third or fourth grade of elementary school. When I returned to Harbin in 1997 to attend my mother's affairs, I further discovered that there were so many relatives and friends I had never met, who were both my brother's co-workers and my mother's "dry sons". This touched me very much and I wrote relevant essays for this. It also made me think about how my mother lived my life after I went to the countryside. I also paid further attention to the people left in the city after going to the countryside, such a group and topic that I was once unfamiliar with, which caused me to think: After I went to the countryside, what did the little brother and little sister left behind in the city experience?

The second is the impression left on me by the changing times themselves. In the early days of Zhiqing's return to the city, my eldest brother's family of three, my younger brother's family of three, retired parents, plus my mother's brother's family, a total of 4 families squeezed in a 28-square-meter house. The space is small and there is almost no sunlight in the house. I remember it was the late 1980s, and 5 out of 6 out of 3 dual-career families were laid off. To make ends meet, my eldest brother and sister go out on the streets to sell eggs. Fortunately, I still had some contributions at that time, and I could help within the family. But around 2000, we gradually ushered in the change of the times, and the light character film began to move. This means that nearly 1/4 of the people in Harbin, that is, the Zhou family like in "The World of Man", have begun to gradually move out of the old house and live in a small building. At the same time, people's medical expenses and pensions are gradually being fully protected. My brother has been ill for a long time, and by around 2012, many of his medical expenses could be reimbursed, and the burden on the family was reduced. Our next generation is well educated. For example, the children of several of my younger brothers went to high school, went to college, and were able to further their education. As an individual, as a person who has come over, I have seen the development of Chinese society and the changes in people's living standards, which has brought me great touches.

Finally, I have a desire to supplement the historical understanding of the early years of China's reform and opening up in the 1980s and 1990s for the young people of our time. In fact, I think this is not my own desire, but the desire of my generation. Maybe my work is not necessarily comprehensive, because it is difficult for me to be extremely comprehensive, but at least from one point of view. All of this can be traced back to my original idea of leading a group of "post-80s" literary youth who like to create a TV series like "The World". Probably in 2014, I hope to bring some young people with literary creativity to travel back to the early stage of reform and opening up, and directly look back at the development process of our republic. If such a script is written by them, and the relevant TV series are shown to young people, I think the significance is even greater than that I wrote myself. The environment in which they were created throughout the process was very good, and I felt that they were hungry for something to learn about the past. This desire is stronger than their desire to learn from me about their creative experience. But every line they write is foreign to them. Therefore, I feel the need to write and let the young people know that the emergence and development of China's reform and opening up is not a carnival, but by many laid-off laborers who use their stoicism to pave the way for the wheels of large-scale industry in the period of the transition of the republic, and it is the supremely glorious Chinese working class that bends their backs in that difficult period and lets the great industrial wheels of the republic pass through their backs. Today, we can prepare the Winter Olympics so perfectly, which is undoubtedly the result of the struggle of our fathers.

The characters of the novel reflect the changing times

First of all, I have never been emotionally disconnected from the working masses at the bottom and their lives. The whole process of writing is not a simple style, but a process of constant attention to life. This process is the observation process of living in the ordinary staff dormitory, and it is a process of living in different neighborhoods. In the plot portrayed in the work, some things are indeed a bit similar to when I was in the corps. When I wasn't writing this work, I paid attention to the changes in the lives of my friends and family. At the same time, because of my work, I will receive letters from the masses reflecting difficult situations, and I will also run for those who have never met. But this is not my own biographical work, nor is it a work about the family. Some of the situations are similar to those of my own family, but the work is not about my personal experiences. When I became a writer, I was very much like Zhou Rong, entering a state of self-thinker. But as the times move forward, I myself will reflect on myself. Some of the issues that I have come to mind have been pondered by many people at all levels of government. This country is not just ourselves watching the development and changes of society.

Second, the focus of the work is to write about the relationship between one generation and one generation. In fact, I do not lack the preparation of writing materials, including the emotions in life. It is important to think calmly about your own understanding of the historical logic of the changing times. The result of my thinking is that the era and the era cannot be as absolutely separated as a partition wall, but there are overlapping parts between each other. This overlap is either larger or smaller, but in any case this overlapping part must have the achievements left over from the previous era. At the same time, there will be regrets left by the previous era. Therefore, the new era continues to inherit the spirit of the previous era, and at the same time, it is necessary to solve the regrets and newly arising problems of the previous era. This is a kind of rational thinking. This kind of thinking has convinced me myself. This constitutes the impetus for the plot in the serious literature of "The World". The new generation has the mark of the "new era", and it is also marked by the original era in genes and temperament and temperament like their parents. As a result, they have some personality traits that inevitably resemble their parents. Of course, they want more contact with the new era. In this way, the plot of the work will be advanced to the next step. This involves the children and daughters of the Zhou family and their children and grandchildren. In the original work, the problem of Zhou Bingkun going to college was mentioned three times. In the original work, Zhou Zhigang lost his temper with his children three or four times. The structure of the original work is similar to dominoes, trying to spread out to social phenomena and radiate the entire era through the lives of the three brothers and sisters of the Zhou family. When the TV series was adapted, this structure was dismantled and transformed, otherwise it would be difficult to achieve film and television.

Third, the work hopes to embody the feeling of reverence for ordinary workers. This is reflected in many details, including the actual age of workers in that era, wage income, what songs they liked to sing, and some specific symbols at that time. Reflect these people through the truth of the details. Of course, in TV dramas, some cannot be shown one by one because of the need for drama adaptation. In the works, it is mainly through the experience of the protagonist to reflect the ordinary laborers. For example, Zhou Rong is indeed very willful, she arrived in Guizhou and went further. But if we say that people are the sum of social relations, the children of the Zhou family want to make their "peace" beyond the family. That is, to make one's social relations sum up not limited to family relations, but to society as a whole. She has an independent thinking ability, which embodies the temperament of a new intellectual. As for Zhou Bingkun, he instinctively extended the relationship between him and his small and co-workers, because they belonged to society. Zhou Bingyi is doing his best to help others. Perhaps Zhou Bingyi is more responsible to others than his responsibility to the family. As a slightly self-conscious person, Zhou Bingyi feels that he lives in his mother-in-law's house and can temporarily avoid participating in the limited resources of the government. This may not have been made clear in the TV series. The plot creation here stems from my work experience after transferring to Beijing Language and Culture University in 2002. I would have had the right to share an extra house, but given the housing needs of more teachers, I voluntarily gave up. I think my characters should be able to do the same. Therefore, in them, they embody the fusion of family and country feelings. Therefore, Zhou Rong went to France to chase her daughter back, she believes that in the reform and opening up of China, her daughter can do something, she also asked herself to appear in life as a new Chinese woman. The sons and daughters of the Zhou family, no matter how the country develops, must live on this land. It also reflects her patriotism. After returning to China, she thought she could return to the university, but the situation changed, and she had to go to secondary school to teach. Until after her retirement, she also went to buy treasury bills like ordinary people. This also reflects the need for intellectuals to constantly adjust their relationship with the times. As a literary work with realistic themes, the novel "Human World" is sporadic. Tv dramas can't be like this. The TV series must combine all the characters. Because at that time (during the writing and publishing period of "The World"), the number of readers gradually decreased, so I often say that it was almost a performance art. But that's what I'm going to do. Then, through this event, I pay tribute to literature, to realism, to the ordinary and consistent working families that I think of as The "water rocks" of China. I got it done as my own, and how many people here watched, we could ignore, was almost in such a mood at the time. Of course, now we also see that after the film and television, it is very beneficial to promote the reading of the original book.

"Goodness" can transcend the changes of nations and countries and even times

On the one hand, the inheritance of family style tutoring is the transmission of "good people culture". In fact, we see that in other countries, whether in comics, film and television, serious literature, and even mythology, all kinds of imaginary heroes sacrifice themselves to protect others. Therefore, at this point, it should be regarded as a common thing in the ancient and modern Chinese and foreign cultures of all mankind. Therefore, in the work, there is a detail, Zhou Zhigang talked about what the children of the Zhou family should be like, especially the boys saw that others were in danger and took the initiative to help. Today, we all have a higher education in college, but the vast majority of our grandparents were probably not very literate and had no books to read. Just like Zhou Zhigang met when he was literate, their struggle has no room for personal imagination. Their struggle is to support the family and raise their children at the same time. Struggle is an instinct in them, a state of survival. But they swallowed the bitterness of life. It is not that the children do not feel this today, but that the grandparents are silently bearing the greatest hardships in life. It is the inheritance of these family style tutors that makes these families become the "water rocks" of Chinese society. If we push back the history by a few decades, when the War of Resistance Against Japan comes, we will see these families participating in The Great War of Resistance Against Japan in Different Ways. Today, from labor models and advanced figures on all fronts to scientific and technological and cultural workers, the vast majority of them come from such ordinary working families. It is precisely because of the existence of such "water diagenetic rocks" that our country can continue to move forward in the process of one decade after another.

On the other hand, the experience, identification, and self-improvement of the "good" in one's own life may be more meaningful than the constant emphasis on a life of struggle. For example, Zhou Bingkun and his co-workers, although not highly educated, still insist that they should be kind, courageous, and tenacious. In this process, we need to constantly improve our spiritual level and constantly take the whip to spur ourselves on. We need to repeatedly ask ourselves what kind of person we want to be, and what kind of person we don't want to become, so that we are worthy of this life. This may be more relevant. In this process, I myself was influenced by the works of Tolstoy and Turgenev, including in my creation. This influence will be divided into two parts, one part is humanitarianism, for example, through the work "Father and Son", we can see such a writer, who sees that there are other groups in the world suffering, and they themselves will not feel the slightest happiness. The other part is patriotism, such as War and Peace. So I think people actually have a duality. This is also the reason why humans are different from other animals. We have this kind of identity in culture, only home is not enough, people must also have a country. The ancient Chinese put their homeland together, which is the feeling of home and country. The same is true in War and Peace. In Hugo's Les Misérables, he also emphasized compassion for people in suffering. What particularly affected me was that once the protagonist Fantine had a commitment, she used her life to practice it, and never complained. Another point is that when he went to hunt down Jean Valjean, Javert slid down the roof, but Jean Valjean held out a hand. Before Hugo, there had been no such scene in any human literature, and the hunted protagonist was often only concerned with his own survival. So this detail is great. This not only explains what people are like in reality, but also how they should be in reality. If realism did not understand what man should be like in reality, there would be no fictional characters like Jean Valjean and the book Les Misérables. So realist literature is not just about holding a mirror. The significance of literature to society, to the times, and to readers is to emphasize how we should be in reality, and to constantly emphasize the evolution of our human culture. Maybe we humans can no longer evolve three heads and six arms, but this cultural evolution will always encourage all of us to become real people. It is also because we are constantly evolving in a cultural sense that human beings can and should be like this. Then it is embodied in "The World of Man", in fact, the protagonist can still care about others in his own difficult period, as a member of ordinary society. For example, Zheng Juan wants to transfer her house in Taiping Hutong to someone else. It was a very difficult thing to open the house, because there were many stamps to be stamped on the house transfer, but when she finally finished it, she thought that she could finally live with the neighbors again. In real life, people are occasionally seen fighting for property, but this is only a small group of people. So in reality, you and I can also be like Zheng Juan. I most hope that our humanity will evolve like Zheng Juan.

The true meaning of struggle

Struggle must have a certain goal. Recently, our country has historically completed the poverty alleviation, in my opinion, just like the country has a five-year plan, everyone needs to have their own goals to strive for. This is the short-term, short-term goal. Young people's initial life goals should be more specific and low, like hurdles, and they should not be too high at first, or they will jump once and fall once. When living, traveling, earning and raising the next generation do not constitute difficulties in life, then living well is the goal. If you are close to the next goal, you should approach it, and if you are farther away from the next goal, you should not feel lost. The middle class should try to be exemplary citizens in society. As for the young man who still has nothing, no house, no car, and relatively low salary, we cannot say that such a young man will make him give up the struggle. That is, we need to fully understand the struggles of such young people. Praise, cheer and encourage them in the process of their struggle. And there's an opportunity to give it to them. I know that the concept of "lying flat" in the previous period was very hyped, but I don't think there is a real "lying flat" youth in real life, and all the people are working hard.

For material desires we have to subtract. Especially those whose lives have been relatively stable, they should begin to cherish their stable lives and subtract from their desires. No matter what age you are, no matter what kind of life you have lived, you have always imagined your own life or sustainable addition, how terrible such a life is, how terrible it is to keep doing addition. So at the right age, when you have already lived a stable life, you must do the subtraction appropriately. We can learn from Zhou Rong and live in line like ordinary people after retirement. When you already have a car and a house, it's not a big deal to be in tune with other people. After all, the vast majority of people in the world are ordinary and ordinary. I once told my kids that they were going to college, they were going to work, and if they needed, dad would give you a bike. After joining the work for a period of time, if necessary, you should use your own salary to buy a motorcycle. Our lives start with cycling. As for going to some stores that sell high-end goods to shop, as our ordinary people, not going is not a loss of life, low consumption can also live a dashing life, which depends on their income. If you feel pain because you are unable to consume luxury goods, this pain is not worthy of sympathy, and Dad does not sympathize with you, because this pain is imposed on ourselves.

Struggle is the background of the people's epic, and ordinary people must find the value of life and fight for it. Zhou Bingyi is a representative of outstanding intellectuals, and after he joined the Heilongjiang Production and Construction Corps, he insisted on adhering to his belief, and although he lived in the era of material poverty, the spiritual world was rich. I don't think it's accurate to summarize Zhou Bingyi in terms of success. In Zhou Bingkun, his whole responsibility is home. But Zhou Bingyi has a home in his heart and a country in his heart, because he wants to let more people like his brother (including National Day, catching up, etc.) get rid of the embarrassing life through his own efforts, and he wants to enlarge his own energy and his own deeds, integrate with the development of the country, and bring the improvement of quality of life to more families. What he asks for is not success, there is no "fame and fortune" in him, he has responsibility. In the original work, Zhou Zhigang talked about the standard of good cadres to Zhou Bingyi, in fact, this is the inheritance of family style and tutoring. In real life, my friends and I are the children of ordinary workers' families, and we have corresponded and exchanged: I have become a writer, I want to face literature well, and you are the same, never forget that you are a cadre who came out of an ordinary worker's family.

(Compiled by Wang Chiyu, reporter of "Learning to Strengthen the Country", photographed by Yang Jiaxi)

Source: Learning to power the country