Ludovic Lamant (hereinafter referred to as "LL"): "Like a movie about the conqueror..." How did you come up with this movie? ”
Andreas Fontana (hereinafter referred to as "AF"): After ending his career as a diplomat, my grandfather became a private banker. I have only a vague idea of the world of private banking, because my grandfather, throughout his life, was quite cautious about people, like any competent banker. It wasn't until he died that I began to understand the world: a very powerful world with its own code, language, and very careful culture. I find the intimate relationship between private bankers and their clients. I realized that this was a rich source of material for filmmaking.
Then there's Argentina. I lived there for many years and I have a very close connection with this country. In addition, photographing bankers in a bank is tedious in itself. A private banker's real domain should be to go out and find his clients, mostly abroad. It seems to me that a private banker can be seen as a pioneer, a colonist to conquer the unknown, and the idea seems to be a very interesting angle: it's like making a movie about conquerors. And we usually know that the arrival of the conquerors is usually accompanied by violence.
LL: How did you gather material for this little-known subject?
AF: I spent two and a half years doing project research and collecting materials. Just like anthropologists, though not as professional and systematic. I met with more than a dozen private bankers, as well as academics from Switzerland and Argentina. I searched the Federal Archives in Bern. and traveled to Argentina several times. I took a lot of pictures, looked at a lot of locations, took a lot of notes, and wrote one notebook after another. Recent news events have also enriched my material content. I think in particular of Hervé Falciani's revelation of HSBC[1] Hervé ... Continue reading: We specifically read memos written by bankers about their customers. This gives me concrete, real-life examples. This is rare, because if there is a mysterious topic that is almost impossible to figure out, it is the banker's true and frank opinion of customers.
LL: Is there ever a public record of the relationship between some Swiss bankers and those close to the Argentine military dictatorship?
AF: When it comes to other dictators with Swiss bank accounts, such as Alfredo Stroessner (3 November 1912 – 16 August 2006), former president and military dictator of Paraguay (15 August 1954 – 3 February 1989). In 1958, 1963, 1968, 1973, 1978, 1983, ... Continue reading), Ferdinand Marcos[3]... Continue reading) and Mobutu Sese Seko [4]... Continue reading), these relationships are well documented. But when referring to the Argentine dictatorship, two things must be pointed out: on the one hand, there is a link between Switzerland's major banks and the leaders of the junta, which should be seen as a pragmatic transaction in the Swiss financial community. As ironic as it may seem, such alliances are consistent with international legislation. On the other hand, there are also cases of proven tax evasion and money laundering. In these cases, I relied mainly on the lawsuits brought by Carla Del Ponte when she was a prosecutor for the Swiss Confederation. At the request of the Spanish Government, she conducted a criminal investigation into former torturers who owned Swiss bank accounts. Spanish judge Baltasar Garzón directly authorized her to learn about the accounts. For example, Jorge Eduardo Acosta (aka "tiger", one of the directors of the Torture Center in Buenos Aires [ESMA] during the dictatorship) had a bank account at UBS.
LL: Is the bank represented by Yvan de Wiel (Fabrizio Rongione) inspired by a real bank?
AF: Not really. But my goal wasn't to make a film that revealed behind the scenes of a known and confirmed event. I did some data gathering, and I reorganized the findings according to my imagination. Borges is right: we don't invent things, we discover them. That's how I work: proper nouns, dates, people, and places all inspire me. After that, I extended them to a story in a more poetic way. I want to dive deeper into a mindset, understand the way private bankers communicate with their customers, describe a system, a culture. For example, when I learned something basic about them, I was deeply shocked: for bankers, there is no conflict of conscience at all, only a conflict of interest. Ethics is, at best, an accounting or administrative matter.
LL: Athol is a period drama set in the late 1980s. However, the film does not seem to follow the norms of historical reconstruction.
AF: We wanted to make sure that it wasn't just a reproduction of history, but more like an evoky of an era. The story takes place in 1980, but it was filmed in 2019. This time interval is important. Sometimes there are markers that are reminiscent of certain exact historical periods, but I don't want to have a museum-like connection with history. I started where I negotiated with the bankers. A country house, a villa with a swimming pool.... In these private spheres, time stands still. It's not very important now. The link to history, the ability to identify a person's relationship with the past, is essentially a distinguishing sign of class distinction in this environment.
LL: Can you tell us more about how you gave your aesthetic choices to this film about Swiss bankers? Let me put it simply, for example, as a conqueror of a new world?
AF: Switzerland is not – or rather, no longer – a formidable military force. In Switzerland, for a long time, bankers have been acting as front-line agents of the state. Banks formed a great defensive line, and bankers found themselves on the front line. They're not military heroes, but they're heroes. For a long time, the Federation hid behind bankers. The secrecy of bank customers is a deliberate political decision that implies its own form of attack: in order to enable the Swiss network to penetrate internationally, the confidentiality of bank customers is a very powerful mechanism. Today, we are not necessarily aware of the role that Switzerland plays in certain processes. For example, during the dictatorship of Argentina: it wasn't just two or three bankers who felt the potential for a super opportunity. There is a practical strategy that includes cultivating relationships in situations of political instability in the country. When the military came to power, there was a moment of euphoria. "Our friends are on the stage, let's go and fight!"
LL: The film's plot development relies on the existence of a suspense: we want to know how Ivan DeVille will eventually react in the face of the horrors he has come to understand.
AF: I love reading detective novels, but I stop reading every novel when I reach three-quarters of it. Not because I find it boring, but because I don't want to know the ending, so that the mystery in the novel will continue to remain intact. In my opinion, the film script is also a narrative excuse to explore the universe. The tension of the script depends first and foremost on a mystery that draws people's curiosity, but it may not be finally solved. This is typical of the fantasy literature of porteña (from Buenos Aires) by writers such as Borges and Cortázar (Julio Cortázar). The closer we get to the core of the puzzle, the farther we are from the final solution.
LL: How did you handle this ending?
AF: Mariano Llinas and I worked together on the screenplay, and we quickly realized that we had to take into account a strong assumption: bankers are generally considered quite negative. What can you do? Having this character a true cynic didn't inspire me at all. But as I conducted my research, Jonathan Swift [5]... A description of Continue reading that fascinated me, "The banker is like a black well; we don't know if it's deep or simply empty." Who is Ivan DeVille? What makes him do this? What has he personally experienced and participated in? I think the audience will project their conclusions onto Ivan in the final shot of the film. But if I had to give a hint, it would always be the same: the key. The world of banking is rife with performance culture and increasing competition. The most important thing is to find an environment that accepts that you are the best, "at all costs".
LL: How did you cast in Europe and Argentina?
AF: Casting takes place simultaneously in Europe and Argentina. In Europe, we work with Alexandre Nazarian to look for less recognizable actors because we don't want audiences to have too many other references to existing roles when they discover them. In Argentina, when working with Maria Laura Berch, we took a less traditional approach, and the selection process ended up creating a lot of possibilities. We basically look for non-professional actors from different environments in the film. For those in finance, lawyers, landowners, wealthy heirs, we agree not to set too many casting limits, but to choose more possibilities.
LL: Some of the supporting characters in the film stand out, such as the appearance of Ellie Medeiros.
AF: The film is enriched by its supporting roles. They are the real masters of every scene, which we do on purpose. The billionaire character is like a mirror, and it's his tragedy that he has to constantly adapt to his clients. He essentially exists in response to the wishes of others. That's a very important aspect that we need to keep in mind to make sure Fabrizio is; and that means actors have to give up a lot of things. Regarding Ellie Medellus, I am very interested in the sense of presence she possesses and the mystery she exudes.
LL: A religious leader who complicates with the junta, played by Pablo Torre Nilson, is another key character in the film.
AF: Pablo Torre Nelson is the son of Argentine director Leopoldo Torre Nilson (1924 – 1978). He's also a director and writer, and I chose him because of his energy. In Argentina, some Anglican churches support abuses of power and violence by authoritarian regimes. One of the religious figures who inspired me to create this character was Adolfo Servando Tortolo, an archbishop of Argentina (1911-1998) who would receive and reassure families, then sell their messages directly to the junta – it was chilling.
LL: The film could end up provoking a strong reaction in Switzerland...
AF: To be honest, causing a reaction is what I'm interested in. Swiss banks have never acknowledged their role in history or uttered a word of apology. My feeling is that it is up to our generation to shoulder the responsibilities of the darkest days of the 20th century. I don't feel guilty about it, but I think it's absolutely necessary to encourage reflection on this issue.
LL: What's your next shoot plan?
AF: I've started another project that is in line with Athol, another historical film about different professional environments: the relationship between diplomats and their territory, Geneva. In this new survey, I was interested in finding interesting ways to reinterpret a particular professional culture. As Borges said, each subject has its own rhetoric.
The original article was published in the cannes film festival
References
| ↑1 | Hervé Falciani, a systems engineer and whistleblower in France and Italy, has been hailed as "the largest banking breach ever" in history. In 2008, Falciani began working with a number of European countries to provide information suspected of being stolen illegally, involving more than 130,000 suspected tax evaders with Swiss bank accounts – particularly those with accounts with HSBC Private Bank, HSBC's Swiss subsidiary. In November 2014, HSBC was charged with money laundering in France. In November 2015, the Swiss Federal Court sentenced Falciani to five years in prison – the "maximum sentence required by the Federal Public Service in a bank data theft case". Falciani was charged with "serious financial espionage, data theft and breaches of commercial and banking secrecy." |
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| ↑2 | 3 November 1912 – 16 August 2006, former President and military dictator of Paraguay (15 August 1954 – 3 February 1989). In 1958, 1963, 1968, 1973, 1978, 1983 and 1988 he was re-elected for eight consecutive re-elections, and from 1977 the paraguayan presidency was lifted from re-election. He ruled for nearly 35 years and became a "specimen figure" in Latin American dictatorships. During his more than 30 years in power, he amassed about $5 billion in wealth. |
| ↑3 | From September 11, 1917 to September 28, 1989, filipino politician and dictator ruled the Philippines for 20 years from 1965 to 1986. Marcos came to power as a champion of economic and social reforms, but during his later term in office, Marcos himself became known for his crony capitalism and authoritarian rule with political repression. |
| ↑4 | Former President and Dictator of Zaire from 14 October 1930 – 7 September 1997. Mobutu was notorious for corruption, nepotism and embezzlement of $4 billion to $15 billion in office. During his more than three decades in power, Mobutu was known as the "typical African dictator". |
| ↑5 | Jonathan Swift is an English and Irish writer. As a master of satirical literature, he is best known for his works such as Gulliver's Travels and The Tale of a Barrel. According to historical records, he had multiple identities, including clergy, political pamphlet writer, satirist, writer, poet, and radical. |
French journalist and editor who worked for Reuters and the Cahiers du Cinéma (Film Handbook).
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