∞ Final Dialogue I., 2018
In Dialogo I
Borges × Ferrari translated by Chen Dongbiao
New Classic Culture | Nova Press
Legends or literature were taken seriously
Excerpt from On Humor
About Humor
Ferrari: Since I have, Borges, highlighted Samuel Johnson, I remember you saying that in England you were going to choose a writer of the whole nation, and that the choice should probably fall on him.
Borges: Well, I would say Johnson, Wordsworth... But I can mention a strange, foreign book, a much more famous book; it can be said that if there is a rule that requires that every country be represented by a book, in this case the book is probably the Bible.
The Bible, known to all, incorporates Hebrew, Greek texts, all of which are infused into English. But now these texts form part of the English language. A biblical quotation may be pedantic in Casti or French, or it may not be immediately discernible. In contrast, spoken English is full of biblical sentences.
And I, of course, my grandmother— whose family came from a Missionary from the Defence Council — memorized the Bible in its entirety. Whichever phrase you quote from the Bible, she will tell you, "Job, chapter, line, etc."; or "Kings" or "Song of Solomon."
Ferrari: Keep in mind the source, so to speak.
Borges: Yes, she reads the Bible every day.
Also, did you know that every family in England has a Bible, and the blank pages, the last few pages, record the chronicles of this family? Such as marriage, procreation, baptism, death, and so on. Well, these family Bibles also have legal value: they can be used in litigation, for example; the law recognizes them as official documents: for example, the family Bible records this.
And in Germany, another generally Protestant country, there is an adjective: bibelfest, which means "to memorize the Bible," that is, to memorize the Bible. The same thing, as you remember, happened in Islam, where people recite the Qur'an. I believe that the name of the famous Persian poet Hafez 2 means "man of memory", that is, someone who can recite the Qur'an.
Ferrari: A master of memory in a sense.
Borges: Yeah, in a sense, it's a weak version of Funes 3 (both laughed).
Ferrari: Or yourself.
Borges: How come?
Ferrari: You were called the "Memory Master" in a newspaper in Buenos Aires.
Borges: Speaking of Funes, I have not been asked once but many times whether I know this person; whether Funes really exists.
But this is nothing compared to a Spanish journalist asking me if I still have the seventh volume of the Encyclopedia of Tron, Uxbar, orbis Thedius.
Ferrari: It corresponds to one of your stories.
Borges: Yes, one of my stories, when I told him that the whole thing was a fabrication, he looked at me with contempt —he said he thought it was history —it wasn't, it was all just my personal fantasy, not worth mentioning.
I had the same thing happen to me in Madrid, and it had to do with my story, Alef. That said, Aleph, I don't know if you remember, is a point that holds all the points in space, just as there are all the moments of time in eternity. I see eternity as a model of "Alef." In short, it is a story that deserves an undue reputation, telling the story of Alef, and taking this as its title.
Uh, a reporter asked me if I really had an Aleph in Buenos Aires. I said, "Well, if anything, it would probably be the most famous object in the world, not just in a collection of fantasy stories by a South American writer." Then he said to me, with an innocence that almost touched me, "Yes, but how did you mention the street and the house number—say how many rue Garai?" ——”
What could be easier than mentioning a street and a house number?
Ferrari: He thought the street and the house number were not made up.
Borges: No, it's true that streets and house numbers aren't made up, something like that happened... He told me that there were a lot of people, from different regions, especially south America, who came here to look at the number of something on Corriants Street, because there was a tango that said Corriants 1214 or something like that.
Ferrari: 3-4-8.
Borges: Ah! Well, you remember. There is a similar example where legend or literature is taken seriously: it seems that many people have gone to London to see Sherlock Holmes's house. They went to Baker Street and looked for the house number.
So, to satisfy these people, or as a joke, there is now a Sherlock Holmes Museum; where visitors can find what they expect, because there are, uh, hangers, laboratories, violins, magnifying glasses, pipes, all in all.
Ferrari: Customized according to the fantasies of tourists.
Borges: Yes, all these lines, all these Sherlock Holmes markers can now be found there. Well, Wilde had already said in that phrase: "Nature imitates art"4.
Ferrari: Exactly.
Borges: One example that Oscar Wilde gave was a lady who didn't want to go to the balcony to watch the sunset because it was here, in a painting by Turner 5. He added: "One of Turner's worst sunsets" (laughs) because nature doesn't mimic painters very well.
Ferrari: I saw that inadvertently, Borges, at the end of the broadcast, humor found us again.
Borges: Exactly, you're right.
Translation Notes:
Hafiz (1325/26-1389/90), Persian poet.
3. Funes, the protagonist of Borges's novel Funes el memorioso.
4 Wilde: The Decay of Lying.
Joseph Mallord William Turner (1775-1851), English landscape painter.
A reporter asked me if I really had an Alef in Buenos Aires. I said, "Well, if anything, it would probably be the most famous object in the world, not just in a collection of fantasy stories by a South American writer." Then he said to me, with an innocence that almost touched me, "Yes, but how did you mention the street and the house number—say how many rue Garai?" ——”
—Translated by Borges | Chen Dongbiao
—Reading and Rereading—
Chen Dongbiao translation and others
Caption: Borges
By Nicola s Melo
instagram.com/melon.nic