日前，愛力蒙特坐落于中國陶瓷總部基地的全新展廳Trend Hub開業典禮引發了行業的關注和熱議。難以想象，這樣一座驚豔了行業的展廳是由一家成立不到五年（2017年6月成立），标準的“15後”瓷磚品牌所打造的。
Recently, the launching of Trend Hub, a new showroom situated at CCIH has attracted the industry-wide attention and discussion. It’s hard to imagine that such impressive showroom is designed by Element—a post-2015 ceramic brand with a young history of less than 5 years (established in June 2017).
事實上，對于早已不在紅利期的陶瓷行業而言，初創品牌前五年的時間至關重要。不僅要面對業内各大巨頭的壓力，還得一切從零開始，建立企業的團隊、産品、品牌、客戶、經營管理結構等内部系統。更要命的是，這不到五年的時間中，還經曆了三年魔幻的疫情。
Actually the first five years of a startup brand are very important since the dividend period of ceramic industry has long gone. Apart from the huge pressures imposed by industry giants, ceramic communities are required to build its own system, including team, products, brand, customers, operation and management, all over again. What' worse is that three out of past five years are haunted by the unscrupulous Covid-19 pandemic.
然而，就是在這樣一個紅利期早已過去的時代、在頭部企業早已在行業确立的時代、在疫情以及“疫情後遺症”籠罩的時代，愛力蒙特這家初創的品牌不僅活了下來，而且活得有聲有色。
Element, as a startup brand, has survived and stayed vibrant against the background of declining dividend, established industrial giants and looming pandemic sequela.
在這四年多的時光中，一支強大的人才隊伍成為了愛力蒙特發展的中堅力量，在各自的工作崗位上獨當一面；上百名志同道合的夥伴加盟愛力蒙特，與品牌共同成長、壯大；數百款産品經由愛力蒙特匠心打造，輸送到國内外各大市場；不斷發展壯大的愛力蒙特，近期更在佛山陶瓷的中心，中國陶瓷總部基地斥資千萬打造一座頂級家居體驗館。四年多的發展，1700+個日與夜的不斷蛻變，愛力蒙特作為中國建陶行業内首個設計驅動型品牌（Brand Driven by Design，簡稱BDD）的踐行者，BDD的印記早已深入人心……
In the past four years, a strong working team rose to be the growth mainstay of Element as evidenced by its responsible and independent role in attending to each project. Hundreds of like-minded partners have joined Element to grow and expand together with the brand. Hundreds of products are created by Element and transported to major markets at home and abroad. As a growing company, it has recently established a ten-million-level luxury home furnishing gallery in CCIH in Foshan. Over 4 years of progression and continued development spanning 1700+ days and nights, Element, which is credited as the first to celebrate BDD (Brand Driven by Design) , has made BDD an icon deeply rooted in everybody's mind.
這個年輕的品牌創造了太多矚目的成績，而這一切都與愛力蒙特的靈魂人物——愛力蒙特首席産品官魏貝贊息息相關。
An array of achievements has been made by this young brand, all of which give credit to our CPO Mr. Banson, the soul of Element.
本着挖掘深度内容、深究企業營運邏輯及商業哲學的态度，陶瓷資訊聯合中國陶瓷總部基地專訪魏貝贊，本次的專訪不乏尖銳的問題以及魏貝贊此前從未在公衆場合透露過的深度思考。
Ceramic News, in collaboration with CCIH, launched an exclusive interview with Banson in the furtherance of exploring insights, logics and philosophy underlying in business operation. Tough questions were raised during the interview and Banson also offered his insights he never disclosed before.
做值得被世界尊重的中國品牌
A Chinese Brand Respected by All
做好“品價比” 做好“信價比”
Focus on Quality-Price Ratio & Reputation-Price Ratio
喻月明：魏總您是我們行業裡的老前輩，用“老”字我不知道合不合适，表達的是我對您的尊敬。為了本次的專訪，我對您此前的公開資料以及言論進行了深入的研究和思考，陶瓷資訊不太喜歡炒冷飯，更加傾向于挖掘深度以及值得思考的内容。是以本次專訪的問題比較特别，甚至有點尖銳，相信今天我們專訪的内容會非常精彩。
Michael: Banson, you are quiet a senior expert in ceramic industry. I am wondering whether I am saying it right. But it's kind of admiration for you. I have investigated thoroughly into everything available about you and your comments just to prepare the interview. As you know we are a media focusing on insightful and thought-provoking contents rather than rehashing the outdated ideas. Some tough questions will be raised here and some of them may be hard for you to answer. So it's gonna be a great interview.
魏貝贊：确實是老前輩（笑），我在這個行業已經幹了26年。
Banson: I think I am senior enough (Laughter) since I've been in this sector for 26 years.
喻月明：您入行已經26年了，入行的時間應該比我們在座的個别同僚實際年齡還要長。在未創立愛力蒙特之前，您已經是行業裡成功的職業經理人，身處這個位置，您應該比任何人都了解，行業的紅利期早已過去。那麼是什麼原因驅動您要在這個并不算太好的時機創立愛力蒙特品牌呢？
Michael: 26 years mean your career trajectory in ceramic industry is much longer that the age of some of our colleagues here. Before you founded Element, you were a successful professional manager in the industry. You should know better than anyone that the bonus period of ceramic industry has long passed. So what drives you to start up Element in a time that seems unfavorable?
魏貝贊：我應該是見證了中國陶瓷行業的發展。我見證了最早期大陸瓷磚行業做普通釉面磚的時代，也見證了行業蓬勃發展的時代。陶瓷行業的發展迎來了幾大紅利期。第一個紅利期是滿足基本使用功能，陶瓷磚供不應求的時期；第二個紅利期是行業迎來了市場對産品功能、裝飾功能、文化功能的發展需求期；第三個紅利期是中國制造崛起，中國瓷磚出口激增。
Banson: I have witnessed how China's ceramic industry evolved. I have undergone the earliest era when glazed tiles dominated the Chines ceramic sector and the booming era of this industry. Ceramic industry has enjoyed multiple dividends during its growth. The first dividend refers to the period when ceramic is in short supply to meet the basic requirement for application. The second one refers to the growing market demand for the functionality of product, decoration and culture. The third one refers to the period when there is a surge in Chinese ceramic exports as a result of the rise of Chinese manufacturing.
通過幾個不同的紅利期，我們中國建陶開始不斷發展壯大，同時消費者對産品的需求也從物質層面上升到精神層面。這個時期無論是市場的規模、産品的品類，規格的變化都給陶瓷行業以及企業帶來了豐厚的回報。
Driven by these dividends, Chinese ceramic industry started to grow stronger and consumer also focused more on the spirituality rather than materiality in terms of product demand. In this period, market size, product categories and specs variation all yielded great returns for both ceramic community and companies.
愛力蒙特卻選擇在2017年入局陶瓷行業，做自主品牌，這個時候行業的紅利期在表面上看似乎已然過去，但是我看到的是整個世界瓷磚的發展。愛力蒙特的成立是經過深思熟慮的，首先，我們認為中國瓷磚經過了近二十多年的高速發展在世界上已經具備了影響力，但是這種影響力是在規模與價格方面的影響力。其次，在品質價值以及信譽、原創設計、技術創新等方面，我們還有更大的發展空間。
By the time Element emerged in ceramic industry as a startup of self-innovated brand in 2017, the dividend has disappeared seemingly. But what I look into is the growth trend of world ceramic industry in a big picture terms. The inception of Element is driven by our reflection on the entire industry. We believe that Chinese ceramic sector has developed into something influential across the world after 20 years of rapid expansion. But such influence is proven only in such aspects as scale and price. Therefore, we still have a long way to go in terms of quality, value, reputation, original design and technological innovation.
我還記得98年第一次到意大利參觀博洛尼亞展、意大利陶瓷廠時的情景以及心路曆程。即便那個時候我已經在陶瓷行業從業才2年，但依舊非常震撼。我發現了我們與意大利建陶之間的差距，也是從那個時候開始，我在心裡埋下了一顆種子——投身打造多元産品結構體系的種子，我覺得我們有很多事情可以做。
I still remember my first visit to Italy in 1998 when I visited the Bologna Exhibition and the Italian ceramics factory. At that time, I was just in ceramic community for 2 years. That visit impressed me greatly. I found there how Italian ceramic art differed from ours. It's at that moment I decided to work on a diversified product lineup. I knew there was a lot more to do.
另外，在展位上我們經常會看到一個用兩種語言表達的辨別。一種是英文的：NO PHOTO，另一種是中文的：不準拍照。全世界，這麼多人去看展，為什麼隻用了這兩種語言文字？從另一個角度去思考，其實我們在原創設計、技術更新以及信譽層面均有待改善。
Besides, we saw a sign expressed in two languages on the booth. One is in English: No photo; the other is in Chinese: 不準拍照. Why only these two languages are used for those rushing towards the exhibition? To put it in another way, we need to improve our original design, technology upgrading and reputation.
中國建陶從2017年開始經曆了許多打擊，從反傾銷到技術壁壘，再到我們現在的疫情，看起來經曆了很多危機，但實際上我們的行業經過這些危機後反而得到了淬煉，變得更加堅韌。我們的産品、技術、裝備等均迎來了新的機遇。
Since 2017, Chinese ceramic community suffered continuously, like anti-dumping, technical barriers and the rampant Covid-19. But these crises in return added to the resilience of ceramic industry, indicating new opportunities for our product, technology, equipment, etc.
從入行走到今天，我希望通過做原創、做技術、做産品、做品牌，把自己的初心一點一點實作。是以，我們做愛力蒙特這個品牌的初心總結下來其實有三點：第一，我們始終有一個中國品牌夢，希望通過所有愛力蒙特人用15年以上的努力，堅持我們的初心，做好品質原創産品，做好“品價比”，做好我們的信譽，做好“信價比”，令我們的“品信”值得消費者滿意、值得消費者尊重，打造一個值得被世界尊重的中國品牌。
Since my first day in this sector, I never forget where I started and stay committed to creative design, technology, products and brand. Actually what encouraged our creation of Element are as follows: First, we have an ongoing vision for Chinese Brand. We expect to, in 15 years to come, provide the best quality and design with the commitment and concerted efforts of Elementers. We will make Quality-Price Ratio, Reputation and Reputation-Price Ratio a source of customer satisfaction and respect, thus enabling our vision of building a Chinese brand respected by all.
第二，我們認為市場的紅利是因為市場的變化與疊代、技術更新、産品結構轉型、以及全球化帶來的。中國市場已經有足夠的消費能力接受高品質、高價值的産品，我認為這是愛力蒙特未來的市場紅利，也是堅持做高端産品品牌的市場紅利。
We believe that market dividends are the result of changes and iterations of the market, technological upgrading, product structure transformation and globalization. Chinese market has strong consumption capacity for high-quality and high-value product, which is, in my opinion, a dividend that drives the future expansion and high-end branding of Element.
第三，愛力蒙特背後有來自新加坡合發利集團（HAFARY）和國内各方面機構組織的支援。合發利集團是有着超過40年曆史的上市公司，穩居新加坡建材行業首位，同時還布局了全球的建材行業，他們無論對市場的了解，還是綜合實力均走在行業前列。合發利集團和我們一樣，都對愛力蒙特的未來充滿了期待，因為我們是共同認可這個項目才走到一起共事的。是以，我們的後盾十分強大，并且有很多像合發利集團這樣的合作夥伴選擇愛力蒙特，我們的信心非常充足。
Element is backed by Hafary Singapore and many other corporate groups in China and beyond. Hafary Singaporea is a listed company with 40 years of history. It ranks first in the building materials industry in Singapore and also has a significant presence in the global building materials market. Both their market observation and strength are at the forefront of the industry. Like all of us, Hafary places great expectations on the future of Element. Our shared vision for Element bring both sides to come together. So we have a powerful back-up force. It’s the trust and favor of our partners like Hafary Singapore that give us great confidence.
未來在價值層面
我們有信心在世界舞台上與意大利一較高下
To Rival Italy Globally In The Realm Of Value
喻月明：您的發言令我深受鼓舞，現在這個行業需要這樣積極的聲音。剛剛開年，我們在行業走訪一圈下來發現基本上都是比較消極的資訊。您對事物的看法是有兩面性的，危機往往伴随着機遇。另外您看待行業發展的态勢是從長遠去看的，而不是一時的紅利或者是危機。中國品牌夢實際上是一種價值觀，這種價值觀不僅僅是建立在物質基礎上的。事實上對于初創品牌而言，活下來很重要，不重視物質也無異于癡人說夢。而愛力蒙特之是以可以為中國品牌夢的初心堅持，很重要的一個因素就是品牌背後有新加坡合發利和國内各方面機構組織的大力支援。讓愛力蒙特有足夠的時間、足夠的空間，保持最純真的初心來打造“品價比”、“信價比”，做一個值得被世界尊重的中國品牌。
Michael: What you have said is very encouraging, and that represents a kind of optimism in ceramic sector. Earlier this year, we have visited most of the ceramic companies. Pessimism basically dominates across all the interviewed enterprises. Everything has two sides and opportunity is often concealed in those crisis. That's how you see things. Besides, you have a forward-looking vision on the future growth of ceramic industry. It's not just dividend or crisis that you have seen in short period. The vision of empowering China with great brands is a kind of value based on more than just material foundation. Actually for startup brands, survival is as important as basic funding assurance. It's the extensive support of Hafary Sgp and groups in China that helps Element to focus on its Chinese Brand initiative and enjoy more time and freedom to fully engage in Quality-Price Ratio and Reputation-Price Ratio which drive the creation of reputable Chinese Brand.
魏貝贊：是的，是以我們一直堅持初心，并有足夠的自信在這條路上走下去。除了合發利的支援之外，我們團隊的梯度非常好，團隊的平均年齡不到32歲。按照這樣的發展，我們是一代人做一代事，我相信堅持初心不變，通過幾代人的共同努力，能夠實作愛力蒙特的中國品牌夢。
Banson: Yes, that's why we move along the path we took at the very beginning with great confidence. Apart from the support from Hafary, we also have a very efficient team consisting of members with an average age of 32. With such development framework, we will continue to work on what we do right now and enable the Chinese Brand vision as we keep moving and building upon the efforts made by previous generations.
我們很清晰地看到了中國陶瓷的未來發展趨勢：第一，未來我們要在國際市場上打拼，單一通過我們的價格優勢是難以獲得長遠發展的，但在價值層面上，未來我們有信心在世界舞台上跟意大利一較高下。如今，中國陶瓷産品不論是産量，還是品質都不比意大利差。
We have been aware of the development trajectory of Chinese ceramic industry in years to come: First, we might sooner or later expand into the global market. It will be very difficult to sustain long-term growth by relying only on cost advantage. But on the other hand, nowadays China can rival Italy in production and quality. So we are very confidence to compete against Italy in global arena in future.
未來中國陶瓷生産的成本會越來越高，碳排放成本、能源成本、原料成本、人工成本均會大幅度提升，基于種種原因，未來我們的市場要想長遠發展僅靠規模是行不通的。我們更應該考慮産品價值、品牌價值，做一個受人尊重的中國品牌，讓對生活有更高要求的高品質消費者愛上我們的産品、愛上我們的品牌。
There will be a sharp increase in the cost of production, carbon emission, energy, raw materials and labour for Chinese ceramic industry. Given all these factors, we may fail to achieve continued growth by merely relying on the market scaling-up. We should pay more attention to the value derived from products and brands, and create a reputable Chinese brand. More importantly, we should encourage high-end consumers with a higher living demand to engage in our product and brand.
編者按：魏貝贊這段短短的對話不僅表達了對現階段中國建陶行業的認可，而且多次提到了長遠發展規劃，可見這家年輕的品牌盡管入局時間不長，但考慮更多的還是長期主義路線。這樣的長期主義路線不僅有感性層面的品牌理念、中國品牌夢，更有理性層面的國際視野、國際格局的考量。
Editor's note: Banson's dialogue represents a recognition of the current ceramic industry in China and a signal of its long-term development plan, which prove that this startup brand, despite its young history in ceramic market, focuses more on long-termism. Such development path is decided upon all aspects from brand concept and Chinese Brand Vision to global vision and international landscape.
喻月明：我相信未來瓷磚可能會成為一種奢侈品。去年美國市場印度瓷磚的量增長翻番，但是平均價值基本不變，而意大利瓷磚供應的量增長幅度不大，但是平均價值卻大幅度上升，這是我們應該關注和學習的地方。
Michael: I believe that ceramics may become a luxury in the future. Last year has seen the doubled supply of Indian ceramics in American market. But the average value remaining unchanged. While the value of Italian ceramics whose supply increased slightly, has risen sharply. This is a phenomenon we should pay attention to and learn from.
魏貝贊：是的，按照目前的發展趨勢，中國瓷磚發展面臨着反傾銷壁壘、技術壁壘等問題，我相信印度、越南等國家将來也會遇到。但是意大利的瓷磚到中國要7%的關稅，在中國市場，它們就變成了奢侈品。瓷磚隻有真正做好價值，它在各個國家、地區才不會受到各種壁壘的影響。是以放眼全球，我認為隻有真正做好價值，品牌才會走得更遠。
Banson: Yes, based on current growth trend, Chinese ceramic industry is faced with multiple barriers like anti-dumping barriers, technical barriers, etc. I believe all these issues will fall on India and Vietnam too. Italian ceramic products are subject to 7% tariff in China--that's why they become luxury in Chinese market. Only the value-added ceramics are able to be immune from the impact imposed by multiple barriers across all countries and regions. So globally, a brand that is truly value-added can sustain for long.
遵循自然法則
Follow The Law of Nature
有底線的商業價值觀才能長遠
Only Business Value Created upon Baseline Can Sustain
喻月明：2017年入局的愛力蒙特相當于開局便選擇了一個“進階難度”，尤其是這5年有3年在疫情當中度過。就像系統出錯把進階難度自動更新到了“地獄難度”。但即便是在這樣的“地獄難度”之下，愛力蒙特仍舊逆流而上，取得了諸多矚目的成績，您認為這其中的核心邏輯是什麼？
Michael: Element started up in 2017 and entered into a critically challenging period since then, especially the subsequent 5 years, with 3 of which being haunted by rampant Covid-19 pandemic. It's like a system error that automatically upgraded the difficulty level to its highest—"hell". Against such difficulty level however, Element still managed to buck the trend and achieved remarkable results. What do you think is the most important logic behind?
魏貝贊：實際上在未組建愛力蒙特之前我們就做了非常詳細的商業計劃書。這個商業計劃書是通過充分的全球市場調研制定的。在這個商業計劃書之中，我們按照自然規律劃分為：春耕、夏耘、秋收、冬藏。
Banson: We had prepared a very detailed business plan right before we started up Element. This business plan was determined on the basis of a thorough global market investigation. We divided this business plan into: spring ploughing, summer weeding, autumn harvesting, and winter storage
我們按照每個發展階段的規律，一步一個腳印走下來，沒有通過短期行為急于求成，更沒有通過非常手段違背我們的初心擷取盈利。我們在産品、管道、團隊、營運、國際市場以及客戶等方面都是腳踏實地，耐心經營的。
We followed the law of each development stage and moved along step by step. We were not eager for success through short-term behavior, nor did we make profits against our original intention through extremity. We are down-to-earth and patient in terms of products, channels, teams, operations, international markets and customers.
是以，即便遇見了許多不可預測的市場變化，遇見本次的疫情、經濟變化等突發情況，我們也沒有自亂陣腳，而是在堅持總體方向不變的前提下，按照我們原本制定的方向對某些關鍵環節進行微調。
Even in the face of unpredicted changes in markets, like Covid-19, economic downturn, etc., we never messed things up. Instead, we managed to fine-tune some key links in the direction we originally set for us while keeping the overall direction unchanged.
我們在春耕的時候就做春耕時期該做的事情，把種子播撒下去，耐心等它發芽；在夏耘之時我們就布局夏耘時期該布局的方向，為秋收做好準備；秋收、冬藏也是同理，我們不僅要收獲，更要從各個層面來考慮成果，盈利隻是其中的一個層面。我們同時還會考量我們的産品結構體系定位、客戶團隊、公司營運模式，我們的商業價值觀等層面。
We do what we should do in Spring Ploughing, like sow the seed and wait patiently for it to sprout; We move along the schedule we set in Summer Weeding for the upcoming harvesting. The same is true for autumn harvesting and winter storage. We have to harvest and make progress in all respects. Profitability is just one of the factors. We will also evaluate our product mix and positioning, customer team, business model, business values, etc.
我們與合作夥伴的商業價值觀必須是一緻的，我認為合作可以有無限的空間，但前提是必須堅守底線。沒有底線的合作走不遠，沒有底線的商業邏輯、商業價值更是走不遠的。
Our business values must be aligned with those of our partners. I believe there is infinite possibility for cooperation as long as we keep to the baseline. Collaboration that treads on the bottom line will go nowhere. Similarly, business logic and values without baseline will never go far.
我們對内部員工、合作夥伴都有要求：雖然整個愛力蒙特産品結構體系包含意大利兩大高端進口岩闆，但是我們會如實告訴消費者這些産品的産地，是中國制造就是中國制造，是意大利原裝進口就是意大利原裝進口。我們不能欺騙消費者，一定要誠信經營。是以我們對“信價比”非常注重。有信譽才會有價值，信譽越好，價值越大，是以我們叫“信價比”。
We have requirements for in-house staff and partners: Despite the fact that our product lineup includes high-end Italian imported sintered stones, some of them are manufactured in China. So we inform our customers of the origin of these sintered stones truthfully. We will never play foul with buyers and will remain committed to operation in good faith. That's why we pay great attention to "Reputation-Price Ratio". Reputation brings value. The more credit you have, the greater value you get. This is what we call Reputation-Price Ratio.
編者按：愛力蒙特在全球市場做商業調研後做計劃書并嚴格按照計劃書上的規劃執行這個案例值得行業借鑒，這也是愛力蒙特成立不到五年時間遇見三年疫情仍舊能逆勢生長的底層邏輯。事實上，筆者觀察到我們行業也有一個成立五年，在成立之初也做了詳盡調研、堅持原創以及鮮明特點的品牌，在這五年中也取得了矚目的成績。
Editor's note: Element offers a reference for the entire industry by strictly implementing its business plan formulated on the basis of a thorough business investigation across the global market. This is also the underlying logic for Element to resist against the downward trend over the past three years of rampant pandemic. In fact, the author also noticed another brand. Established after thorough investigation, this young brand, which is just 5 years old, also stays committed to its own originality and distinctive style that help it to make a big difference since its inception.
這個品牌的成功案例以及愛力蒙特的成功案例剛好互相佐證，可見一個明确的目标、詳盡的計劃以及堅持品牌理念初心對一個初創品牌的重要性。這兩個品牌可以說給了行業一個寶貴的參考範例。
The success stories of Element and the brand aforementioned are just the corroborative evidences on how important it is for a brand to have clear targets, detailed plan and branding commitment. These two brands are valuable reference for the entire industry.
另外，魏貝贊在此處再次提到了長期主義、誠信經營以及商業底線，這與陶瓷資訊這些年來所倡導的馬拉松精神、正道經營的精神是不謀而合的。事實上，企業經營最深層次的比拼也是理念的比拼、文化的比拼以及精神的比拼。
Long-termism, honesty in business and business bottom-line, as mentioned in the talk with Banson, just conform to the ideas of Marathon Spirit and lawful operation championed by Ceramic News all these years. In fact, the highest level of corporate competition lies in the competition among business philosophy, culture and morale.
喻月明：您剛剛提到沒有底線的合作是不能長遠的，從您的角度來看，一個是原創很重要，不能沒有底線的抄襲，另一個是信譽很重要，要有“信價比”。但是剛剛我的思想又跳出去了，我認為還要加上一條，就是去年房地産行業的暴雷，這實際上也是沒有底線的合作埋下的苦果。
Michael: You have just said that collaboration that treads on the bottom line will go nowhere. So from you point of view, originality is very important and plagiarism that violates the bottom line must be stopped; reputation is also very important since Reputation-Price Ratio must be prioritized. But I just want to add something new. The collapse of real estate market last year is just the consequence of unprincipled cooperation.
魏貝贊：其實在自然界我們可以看到這樣一個現象：為什麼很龐大的物種會消失？我們每天談論叢林法則，就是因為這些物種自恃龐大，可以無所顧忌，可以沒有底線去傷害其它物種，最終它就被自然淘汰了。我覺得平衡是最高的境界，如何達到平衡，這并不是一件容易的事。我們中國文化講中庸，中庸不是消極，而是不偏不倚，積極向上做事，堅持長期主義，而不是為了短線，隻有這樣才能走的更遠，這也符合我們新加坡總部集團的價值。
Banson: In our natural world, we can see a phenomenon like this: a certain species would extinguish. How come? We talk about the law of jungle every day, since some species consider themselves as the strongest, so they impose harm to other species unscrupulously to the extent that they are finally eliminated by nature in return. I believe the highest realm is to strike a balance. But to achieve the balance is never an easy thing. Our traditional Chinese culture emphasizes Zhongyong, or Doctrine of the Mean. It doesn't refer to a negative mentality, but a way of medium, namely to move forward positively and steadily to pursue long-termism rather than short-term results, which contributes to the continued development. Such idea is also in line with the values advocated by our Singapore-based group.
新加坡去年的疫情，大家都不容易，但是我們新加坡總部去年的業績增長對比2020年是倍數級的增長。一方面是國際市場去年确實迎來了一波增長，另一方面就是不論我們遇見了怎樣的大環境、經濟變化，我們都堅持走自己的路，堅持初心實作我們的夢想。
Everyone was suffered greatly by the covid-19 pandemic in Singapore last year. But our Headquarters achieved exponential growth compared with that in 2020. Last year has seen a genuine expansion in global market. But most importantly, we stick to our path and commit to our aspiration unshakably regardless of any change in global market and economic situation.
這個夢想不僅僅屬于愛力蒙特團隊，還屬于我們新加坡總部。是以我們堅持長期主義的價值觀，一步一個腳印按照正确的商業價值邏輯發展事業。
Both Element working team and Singapore headquarters share the same aspiration. That's what encourages us to honor long-termism and develop our business along the righteous business logic and values steadily.
編者按：魏貝贊本次訪談自發的從自然層面、哲學層面以及國學層面剖析商業邏輯的本質是本次訪談值得驚喜的地方，令人眼前一亮。這個驚喜令人發現，原來魏貝贊不僅精通于産品，更是對哲學、對國學有着深厚的造詣，并且對自然法則充滿敬畏。
Editor's note: In the interview, Banson offered his analysis on what business logic truly is from the perspective of natural world, philosophy and Chinese culture, which is impressive. But what is more impressive is that Banson, who knows everything about products, also excels in philosophy and Sinology with great awe of the laws of nature.
産品是品牌第一要素
Product Is The Primary Element of Brand
堅定以設計驅動型品牌為終極目标
BDD As Ultimate Goal
喻月明：愛力蒙特創立至今，公司管理營運等層面都有您的影子，但您給自己的定位卻是“産品經理”。您是如何看待這個定位的？給自己定位“産品經理”又是基于何種原因？
Michael: Your influence has reached out into almost every aspect of Element since its establishment, like management and operation. But you credit yourself as a Product Manager. What do you think of this post? What are the reasons for positioning yourself as a "product manager"?
魏貝贊：事實上不僅在瓷磚領域，在其它領域中，品牌的成功，産品是第一要素。我們現在所談的産品有狹義，也有廣義。一個品牌發展如果要更加長遠，一定從産品開始。如果産品體系不夠完善，産品沒有特色，做任何事情都是事倍功半。我們把産品這個基礎打穩了，特别是基于精準定位打造的産品結構體系，就像建一棟大廈一樣，地基打牢，具體上面的建築結構以及裝修風格都不必太過于擔心。
Banson: In fact, in all sectors, including ceramics, product is the primary drive for a successful brand. The products we are talking about can be categorized in both the narrow and broad terms. The long-term success of a brand must be rested on products. An incomplete product lineup and featureless product will contribute not much help to the success of a brand. We must lay solid foundation for making products, especially the product lineup based on accurate positioning. Just like building a mansion, once you have consolidated the foundation, you will need not worry about how to design and decorate the structure above.
是以我們的展廳也選擇了中國陶瓷總部的C位，中國陶瓷總部基地整個平台打造的好，是以我們展廳效果做出來非常滿意，我們的客戶也很滿意。這就跟産品的理念一樣，這是我們初創企業負責人要去思考的問題。
That's why we launched our showroom in the pivotal area of CCIH--a great platform that contributes to the customer satisfaction and showroom display. It's a process similar to defining product concept, which is an issue for startup leads to think about.
其它領域也有許多鮮明的案例，比如蘋果就是從産品出發；再比如保時捷如果沒有在2002年日内瓦車展推出卡宴這款産品，我估計保時捷的今天會很辛苦。我們看到很多著名的品牌，也是因為産品的影響而走得更久更遠。
Similarly, in other sectors, there are many prominent instances. For example, Apple rests its market domination upon its creative products; if Porsche didn't launch Cayenne at the 2002 Geneva Auto Show, Porsche would still struggle on the market today. So we have noticed that product influences contribute to the sustainable growth of many world famous brand.
喻月明：接下來的這個問題可能會有點尖銳，您認為品牌的成功，産品是第一要素，并且提出愛力蒙特的終極目标是“設計驅動型品牌”，通過設計和技術的驅動，讓消費者在空間和生活方式裡獲得最大的體驗價值。但是我們知道商界有一句名言：“一流的企業做标準，二流的企業做品牌，三流的企業做産品”，您是如何了解這句話的？“設計驅動型品牌”既然是終極目标，在您心中的位置應該是淩駕于标準之上的，其中的邏輯是什麼？
Michael: The questions we will ask might be tough for you. As you have put it, product is the primary drive for a successful brand. The ultimate goal of Element is to be a brand driven by design(BDD) as a way of maximizing the consumers' experience in space and lifestyle. But we know business community often invokes the ideas that: "third-tier companies make products, second-tier companies design brands, and first-tier companies set standards." So what's your opinion on that? BDD, as the ultimate goal for Element, must be rested upon some certain norms. What's the logic underlying?
魏貝贊：我認為凡事沒有絕對，都是相對的，無論是做标準，或者是通過其它方式引領行業，其核心價值終歸是離不開服務消費者的。在市場變化面前，創新是企業發展的動力源泉。原來我們看到很多著名的企業定制标準，這種标準是在某個階段産生的，甚至會随着技術的發展、時代的發展産生變化。
Banson: There is no such thing as absolute truth. Everything is relative to one another. Whether it is to set standards, or drive the growth of an industry using other means, it's all about serving our consumer in the end. In the face of market fluctuation, innovation is the driving force of company growth. We have witnessed in history that many famous brands set standards for a specific period. These standards will vary with the upgrade of technology and our times.
就像岩闆，它可以跟天然石材媲美，甚至在某些功能方面可以超越它。而目前這種産品标準卻不好定義，不論是在中國，還是在意大利，因為它還不斷疊代更新中。
Just like sintered stone, it can rival natural stones and even outperform in some functional use. But the standards for such products are not easy to define in China, Italy and other countries, since it's still being updated.
2006年，我在意大利西斯特姆工廠看到這種産品的1200mm×4800mmx12mm的抛光磚，當時拉米拉還沒有正式量産，而這種産品卻出現在西斯特姆專門生産裝置的工廠裡。在那個年代，這帶給我們的震撼是可想而知。但是岩闆發展了這麼多年，全球至今為止還沒有非常準确到位的标準出現。
In 2006, it was at the factory of System that I was first exposed to 1200mm*4800mm polished large-format ceramic slabs displayed in the factory of System manufacturing equipment. Laminam was still nowhere at that time. Back then, the shock to us was imaginable. However, after so many years of development, there is still no very accurate standard set in place in the world so far.
我們提出的設計驅動型品牌在其它領域已經很早就有了，比如蘋果，還有一些手表、家具、醫療裝置品牌都已經提出過。它的核心價值就是給客戶提供最好的體驗價值。我們是陶瓷行業首家提出這個目标的，是以我們目前還不敢說制定标準，隻能說是提出這個目标并嘗試去走這條路。我們會以這個作為終極目标，一步一個腳印去到達該目标的彼岸。
BDD, a concept we proposed recently, has long been championed by others, such as Apple, and some brands of watches, furniture and medical equipment. Its core value is to provide customers with the best experience. We are the first to announce this goal in the ceramic industry. It will be inappropriate to say that we are to set standards. We just put forward this idea and make attempts to move along this path. We will take this as the ultimate goal and reach the destination step by step.
在達到這個目标的過程中，我們需要做很多的事情。其中很重要的一點就是要在整個企業營運過程中打造一種設計思維，它必須是由設計與技術持續驅動。
There are many things to be done amid our goal-achieving journey. It's very important to nurture a thinking pattern driven by design and technology during the corporate management.
這不僅要通過産品驅動，更要通過空間價值驅動，讓我們的消費者對愛力蒙特的産品在空間裡呈現出來的裝飾價值、文化價值、生活方式價值等方面獲得最好的體驗。我們在中國陶瓷總部基地的展廳叫“TREND HUB”，翻譯過來叫“趨勢中心”，我們叫它“潮窩”，這個地方也是充分用這種理念去呈現我們整個空間體驗價值的。
To enable this, our products and space value must be emphasized, so that consumers have access to the best experience provided by the decoration, culture and lifestyle of Element products applied in specific space scenario. Trend Hub, our showroom in CCIH, is also nicknamed as Fashion House or Trend-setting Center. It's a place for delivering the experience value of our space.
喻月明：您剛剛聊天的過程中數次提到了中國陶瓷總部基地，對其贊賞有加，我們陶瓷資訊也是中國陶瓷總部基地中的一員，對總部基地提供的平台以及服務都非常認可。本次專訪也是陶瓷資訊和中國陶瓷總部基地聯合發起的，魏總可以分享一下您們和中國陶瓷總部之間的淵源；以及多年後，還是選擇了中國陶瓷總部的原因嗎？
Michael: You have mentioned and appreciated CCIH a lot. Ceramic News is also one of its members. CCIH is really a great platform that could provide great services for us. This exclusive interview is also jointly sponsored by CCIH together with Ceramic News. Banson, can you please tell us something about the relations between Element and CCIH? Also tell us why you choose CCIH after so many years?
魏貝贊：首先我要先感謝湯總，因為跟湯總認識也有十幾年了。湯總在中國陶瓷總部整個營運管理過程當中是非常成功的。2017年，我們品牌成立之初就想在中國陶瓷總部基地拿下一棟展廳，但那時陶瓷總部租賃非常紅火，沒有找到合适的位置，是以那個時候我們隻好暫時放棄。
Banson: First of all, I am so grateful to Tang. We have been friends for a decade. Tang is very successful in the operation and management of CCIH. Earlier in 2017, we have attempted to open a showroom in CCIH just right after the establishment of Element. But we couldn't find a proper location because of the scarce leasing resources at that time. So we just delayed our plan.
即便如此，湯總還是與我們保持緊密的聯系，時常會來拜訪。後來2020年疫情期間，湯總告訴我中國陶瓷總部基地的C位，以前瑪拉茲的展廳空出來了，希望我們能考慮入駐。但是那個時候整個疫情還不明朗，我們請她再等一等。結果湯總真的等到疫情明朗後，也就是2020年年底再次與我聯系展廳的事宜。
Even so, Tang keeps close contact with us and visits us from time to time. Later, during the pandemic in 2020, Tang told me that the booth of Malaci, located right in the best area of CCIH, was left vacant. She expected the new launch of our showroom. But the looming repercussion of pandemic was still right there. So we asked her to wait patiently. To my surprise, Tang did contact me again for the showroom issue at the end of 2020 when the pandemic seemed to be under control.
那個時候我被湯總的誠意打動了，開始詳細與她商讨方案，她們後續的對接、服務都無可挑剔，最後在2021年我們便開始落地總部基地這個C位的展廳，入駐陶瓷總部。我們很認可總部基地提供的平台以及服務，也希望未來總部基地的産業鍊可以得到更多的優化。
At that time, I was moved by Tang's sincerity and began to discuss the plan with her in detail. Their subsequent match-making and service were satisfactory. Finally, in 2021, we began to make our ways into CCIH and launched our showroom in the pivotal area there. We appreciate the platform and services provided by CCIH, and hope that the industry chain of CCIH could be optimized in the future.
喻月明：我們入駐陶瓷總部基地後也得到了各個方面的賦能，對他們提供的服務非常認可，他們的确都是從使用者的角度出發在做事情。那麼您是如何看待行業未來的發展的？愛力蒙特未來的發展規劃又有哪些？
Michael: We are also empowered in every aspect after subscribing to be a member of the CCIH. Its services are very helpful indeed since everything CCIH does is for the goodness of its users. So what's your expectation on the future development of ceramic industry? What are the future development plans of Element?
魏貝贊：未來中國陶瓷行業的發展我認為還有非常大的機會，因為中國的經濟結構也在轉型更新，國際大環境也在發生變化；第二個就是前面我提到的各項成本的變化；第三是房地産模式對我們整個行業造成的影響；最後就是後疫情時代我們應該創造怎樣的模式來應對。
Banson: I believe there are still many opportunities right there for the growth of Chinese ceramic sector, since China's economic structure is in a transition to higher level and the global market is also changing. Besides, there are changes in costs as I have mentioned before; Also the impact imposed by the real estate model; The last is what kind of model we should create to deal with in the post-pandemic era.
面對以上幾種變化，我們要有創新，未來的合作要更加高效。同時這些變化當中都孕育着新的機會，這種機會我還是認可價值增長的機會。價值增長的邏輯在中國這幾十年發展過程中不斷積累。這些積累不僅僅是物質的，還有對美的認知，對生活品質的追求、對精神層面的追求等等。
Faced with all these changes, we need innovation and more efficient cooperation. Among all the opportunities concealed in those changes, I still champion the value growth which is a logic that accumulates continuously in the past decades in China. Such accumulation is not only demonstrated in materials, but in our awareness of beauty, pursuit of better life and spirituality, etc.
未來，愛力蒙特不論經曆着怎樣的經濟變化、疫情變化、國際大環境變化，我們還是按照我們初期的規劃一步一個腳印把基礎打穩。在不同階段我們都遵循四季的運作方式，順應自然規律發展。通過這樣循序漸進的發展，我相信一定能夠實作我們的三個初心目标：第一，成為值得被世界尊重的中國品牌；第二，實作我們的終極目标“設計驅動型品牌”，讓愛力蒙特的産品為我們的消費者實作最大的空間體驗價值；第三，實作我們的員工、我們的客戶、我們的合作夥伴、我們的股東等整個平台層面的共赢。
In following years, Element will continue to consolidate its foundation step by step based on its initial plan regardless of the transformation brought by economy, pandemic or international landscape. We will follow the laws of nature in different stages of development. With such steady progression, we will be able to achieve our goals: 1) to be a reputable Chinese brand. 2) enable our ultimate goal of BDD and allow Element products to maximize the spatial experience value of consumers. 3) win-win cooperation among employees, customers, partners and shareholder.
編者按：談到這個話題我們的訪談已經接近尾聲，通過這次的專訪筆者對魏貝贊有了更深層次的認識：他不單單隻是一名高超的産品官，更是商業邏輯的洞察者。他洞察了自然規律并且把其應用在了企業管理之中以及他的商業信條之中。他數次提到了叢林法則、自然法則以及遵循自然規律營運企業。這次采訪的過程中，筆者也了解到，愛力蒙特是一家一天工作7小時，實行單雙休制度的企業。這對于陶瓷行業，尤其是初創陶企而言，更是難能可貴，也讓我們對愛力蒙特的未來發展更加期待。
Editor's note: The interview was drawing to an end as our topic shifted. The author has gained more information about Banson in the interview. He is not just a senior product marketer, but a penetrator of business logic. He had insight into the laws of nature and applied them to business management. The law of the jungle, the law of nature and following the law of nature in business operation are the ideas he usually mentioned. During the interview, the author has also learned that Element embraces a work pattern of 7 hours a day and "big/small weeks”, meaning that staff work one Sunday every alternate weekend. This seems to be rare and commendable for ceramic industry, especially for ceramic startups like Element whose future development deserves our expectations.
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愛力蒙特首席産品官魏貝贊（左）
陶瓷資訊首席營運官喻月明（右）
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