Text/Yangcheng Evening News all-media reporter Wu Xiaopan
From October 22nd to 24th, the 34th Annual Conference of the Chinese New Literature Society and the Seminar on the Historicization Trend of Contemporary Chinese Literature Research will be held at Sun Yat-sen University, and more than 140 experts and scholars from all over the country will participate in the discussion in groups through online or offline means.
How do you view the controversy over the concept of "contemporary literature"? What are the difficulties in the historicization process of contemporary literary studies? What are the evaluation criteria for contemporary literature? In response to these problems, Zhang Jun, professor of the Department of Chinese of Sun Yat-sen University, was interviewed by a reporter from Yangcheng Evening News.
1. There is controversy over "contemporary literature"
Yangcheng Evening News: There has always been a debate in academic circles about what constitutes "contemporary literature", what do you think?
Zhang Jun: From the perspective of discipline construction and literature teaching, this is a conventional concept. Of course, within the academic community, there are indeed some doubts and discussions. For example, the current practice is to refer to the 70 years of new Chinese literature after 1949 as "contemporary literature", but this habitual use faces two problems in two different directions:
First, in the understanding of ordinary people, "contemporary" of course refers to the present, at least to the period that is relatively close to the present and the present. Then the first 30 years of the founding of New China (1949-1976), and even the 1980s, have gradually become distant from the present, and it is somewhat unworthy of the name to call it "contemporary". I have suggested that the literature of the first 30 years of new China should be included in the scope of "modern literature", but at present, it is difficult to become a reality in literary research and education;
Second, some scholars believe that "contemporary literature" has been up to 70 years, and there should be a necessary lower limit, because literature after the 1990s, especially literature since the new century, has undergone earth-shaking changes in concepts, narratives, and other aspects, and the previous "contemporary literature" is actually not the same kind of literature, and the literature of the past 30 years should be given a new name in addition to "contemporary literature".
The differences in opinions are relatively large, and at present, everyone is still more accepting of the concept of "contemporary literature" to refer to Chinese literature from 1949 to the present.
Yangcheng Evening News: In this way, "contemporary literature" is open-ended, but if the time is extended long enough, in 100 years or 200 years, the concept of "contemporary literature" will still change?
Zhang Jun: That's inevitable. 100 years later, the "contemporary literature" that people are talking about will certainly no longer include all the contemporary literature we talk about today.
However, in the current context, scholars engaged in the study of "modern literature" and "contemporary literature" are not very happy to accept each other's "crossover". The reason for this is related to the existing disciplinary interests under the current discipline system, and it is also closely related to the positions and methods that have been formed by scholars in different directions, and it will take time to change.
2. Research and criticism are like two brothers
Yangcheng Evening News: The theme of this conference is "The Historicization Trend of Contemporary Chinese Literature Research", according to the understanding of ordinary people, "historicization" is a general and inevitable trend, everything is in the process of historicization, so in this theme, what is the special meaning of "historicization"?
Zhang Jun: "Historicization" is an academic issue that has had great influence and controversy in the contemporary literary research community in the past 10 years, which is not the same as the general understanding, and it is mainly aimed at the method innovation and breakthrough proposed for the contemporary literary research tradition.
Contemporary literature in its age is not too long, for example, in the 1980s or earlier period, there is no "historicization" in the sense of ideological trends, when contemporary literary research is mainly manifested as on-site literary criticism, focusing on the discovery, judgment and analysis of the latest literary phenomena, and relying on the ideological insight and aesthetic judgment of the subject of criticism in terms of methods.
At the same time, since the presupposition of criticism also includes ordinary literary readers, not just professional readers, the freedom and spirituality of language and style will also become the prominent features of excellent criticism.
However, with the extension of contemporary literature, there will inevitably be a number of works that lose their currentity and timeliness, and no longer attract the attention of critics. The study of these works can be handled in the same way as the study of modern literature and even ancient literature.
For example, to do a lot of basic historical materials and documents, we must put them back into the context of the time to examine its production, and so on. In this sense, there has been a "historicization" of the academic community, and some results have been achieved.
Yangcheng Evening News: The study and criticism of contemporary literature are like two brothers, both related and different?
Zhang Jun: Yes, contemporary literary research includes two ways: one is to face the immediate and on-the-spot nature of literature in the recent period (generally 30 years), and of course, it is also the literary criticism with the most ideological impact; the other is to face the literary history research of distant objects (such as the "30 years" of new China literature).
The objects are different and the methods are different, but the reason for the controversy is that they share a "contemporary" concept. Some critics may think that the promotion of "historicization" is to demand that the latest works also be treated using the method of literary history research. This is not the meaning, the latest works need to be keen and timely judgment, not to engage in historical work.
3. It is recommended that contemporary literature postpone the revision of history
Yangcheng Evening News: There is a saying, "there is no history in contemporary times." Will there be the same problem in the historicalization trend of contemporary Chinese literary research?
Zhang Jun: It is true that there is such a statement, but there is still a lot of writing about the history of contemporary Chinese literature. I did a statistic in 2019, and by that year there were 88 "contemporary literary histories" that existed under various names.
Of course, the reason for emphasizing "contemporary history" is very obvious in the field of literary history compilation, because the compilation of literary history must be carried out according to certain historical philosophies and literary history concepts, but in the past 70 years, China's view of history and literature and art has changed dramatically. Even scholars who have fully experienced these changes have the potential to be shaped by the changes.
This shaping is not necessarily positive, it may also be inverse. However, the study of literary history requires a more neutral and objective narrative, which may not be easy to achieve. So I wrote an article suggesting that "contemporary literature suspend the revision of history", do not write it first, and stop for the time being, but it is estimated that many people may not agree.
Yangcheng Evening News: For a long time, some literary research experts have turned to cultural research, such as Huang Mingfen, Zhu Dake, and Zhang Ming.
Zhang Jun: In recent years, remarkable changes have taken place in contemporary literature, and some critics have begun to consciously establish their own critical philosophy and criticism system on the basis of text reading criticism, which is gratifying.
The scholars you just mentioned are the transition from literary criticism to cultural studies. In the vision of cultural research, everything is text, so their research has crossed the pure literary aesthetic category of the past, and the research methods have also been greatly expanded. Of course, this is also controversial, because the methods of cultural research come from the West, and they are mainly aimed at mass culture, which is more obviously different from traditional literary studies.
Yangcheng Evening News: In fact, this is also a matter of personal interest or personal academic positioning, including traditional literary research and criticism, allowing each division of labor, do not have to force it?
Zhang Jun: Of course, the more exploration, the better the academic development. Scholars should adopt an inclusive mindset. Some of the controversies that occur in the academic circles are sometimes the difference between theory and logic, and sometimes they are mixed with certain elements of competing for the right to speak. Overall, however, I think these debates have enriched the development of contemporary Chinese literary studies.
4. Contemporary "why can't there be big works"?
Yangcheng Evening News: What are your observations on Chinese literature at present?
Zhang Jun: After the personalized writing and "pure literature" movement in the 1990s, the mainstream trend of current literature lies in the aesthetic pursuit of individual daily life, which is more personal and personal, which does not match the era of great changes.
China's history from the 20th century to the present has gone through three stages: revolution, construction, and reform. These three major stages have three different main themes. Today is the era of reform, in the great process of national rejuvenation, of course, this process also contains a lot of complexity, darkness and pain.
The creation of contemporary writers as a whole is not enough to respond to the changing reality of the moment, and many works lack the ability to construct reality and cannot evoke the resonance of the younger generation. Therefore, contemporary literature often needs to rely on advertising, pyramid schemes, and operations to expand its influence, rather than relying on the works themselves. This is an important reason why contemporary literature cannot produce large works.
However, in comparison, TV dramas seem to have done better in this regard, such as "Great Rivers and Great Rivers" and "Mountains and Seas", which indeed better reflect the development reality of Chinese society in the past 40 years and the spirit of re-condensation.
Yangcheng Evening News: In the new context of the new era, the "historicization" of contemporary literature is historicization on the one hand, and on the other hand, there must be new methods, new theories and new goals?
Zhang Jun: One of the driving forces for the development of our discipline is the innovation of methods, which is not as relatively stable as the study of ancient literature or linguistics. Because of this, the consensus of this discipline may be relatively less, and the debate will be more. This is normal.
In addition to "historicization", some scholars advocate "sociological historical vision", "great literary view", etc., which are also very enlightening.
5, sales are not necessarily classics
Yangcheng Evening News: At the moment when we emphasize sales, fans, and click rates, what kind of evaluation standards should be established for contemporary literature?
Zhang Jun: If you talk about the market and fight fans, then many literary works in the past are not weaker than today, zhang hexhui's works in the Republic of China period, Jin Yong's martial arts novels in the 80s, and "Song of Ouyang Hai" in the revolutionary era are said to have sold more than 20 million copies, and the market share is very high. But a large number of sales does not mean that it is a literary classic.
How to evaluate a literary work, in fact, there are still two standards for so many years: one is the standard of literary history, and the other is the standard of literature. According to the standard of literary history, it depends on the influence it had at that time and its constructive role in later literary creation.
For example, Mao Dun's "Midnight" may not have many readers today, but it has a particularly great influence on later writers, because this is the first successful modern novel in China, and there is an evaluation of the "Midnight" model in literary history. Literary standards focus on the aesthetic quality of the work, as well as the angle and level of deep human nature, and so on.
For example, Jin Yong, his post-60s and post-70s fans Aredo. In the post-60s and post-70s era, there are few works to read and deep ideological involvement, so as soon as Jin Yong appears, it is like a sense of hunger and thirst for them. The post-00 generation seems to look at Jin Yong less, they are a generation that grew up in science fiction and the Internet, and their worldview and aesthetic expectations have undergone a huge shift. Therefore, Jin Yong, whether from the perspective of literature or from the perspective of literary history, may not be particularly able to withstand the test.
But that's not to say that today's readers should only read the most classic works. In fact, a large number of literary works are not at the top of the temple of human art, but they also have the value of reading, why? Because they may resonate more deeply with the times you live in and with your own circumstances. For example, if you read Homer's Epic, it doesn't necessarily cause more soul throbbing than reading works that reflect current Chinese life. Without him, because these writers are our "contemporaries."
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