Mr. Zhou Kexi, who has a silver head, is eighty years old.
As a translator, Zhou Kexi has always been famous for his translations such as "The Little Prince" and "In Pursuit of Lost Time", but around the eighties, he painted "The Little Prince" and wrote the translated Proust and Baudelaire with a brush... And a pen copied the portraits of former sages in the Chinese translation industry, such as Fu Lei and Chen Mengjia. "If it is not for nothing, how can it be a life of end?" I have taught mathematics for almost thirty years and translated some literary works for more than thirty years. Now, I want to spend the rest of my life in another way, and that is to learn something new, like calligraphy and painting. Zhou Kexi said.
On the occasion of the "After Eighty Years: Zhou Kexi's Self-Painting" at the Shanghai Songyin Art Exhibition, The Paper," the "Surging News Art Review" recently invited Mr. Zhou Kexi and Pan Dun, the curator of the exhibition, to have a dialogue on topics such as writing and book volume.
Transcript of the three-person talk:
Zhou Kexi, Recording of Chen Mengjia, A Wild Flower, 2021
Zhou Kexi waved the scene of the surging news picture
"The most precious thing about calligraphy is the bookish atmosphere"
Gu Cunyan: Hello Teacher Zhou, your translation of "The Little Prince", "Tracing the Lost Time", etc., many readers are very familiar with it, we will not talk about it, I am very curious, you graduated from the Department of Mathematics of Fudan University in the early years, taught mathematics at The University of China Normal University for thirty years, and later transferred to French literary translation, and did it for another thirty years, publishing so many translations. After I was eighty years old, I suddenly held this exhibition, and to be honest, when Pan Dun told me, I was very surprised, because reading your calligraphy carefully, there was a real bookish atmosphere that moved me, and the atmosphere of learning and cultivation was between the lines. In fact, in the current calligraphy world, there are many styles and many dazzling techniques, but there are not many people who really have the atmosphere of books. I would like to know, how did you think of holding such a calligraphy and painting exhibition at the age of eighty?
Zhou Kexi: This exhibition is called "After Eighty - Zhou Kexi's Self-Painting". Why do you want to hold an exhibition, this question should be answered by Mr. Pan. Let me first explain why I have to "write and draw myself" (talk to myself). After eighty, the so-called rest of life, how can we make this period of time more fulfilling? Duras, the author of Lover, once said that the only way to make time full is to wear it down. This is quite similar to what we often say, "If you don't do anything useless, how can you give birth to an end?" "Unhelpful things", my understanding is that this thing may not have any meaning, but it is interesting, meaningful, and can make you not empty. For me, it's about learning something new, which is "self-painting."
Translated works by Mr. Zhou Kexi
Gu Cunyan: You are really a "self-entertainment" attitude, art is originally "useless", reading as Tao Yuanming said, "do not seek much understanding", it is also a transcendent utilitarian attitude to life. Brother Pan Dun, as a curator, you introduce it.
Pan Dun: That's right, originally we did an exhibition from April and May last year, and there were a few tentative works, I asked Lu Hao to paint "The Little Prince", and I asked Mr. Zhou Kexi to copy the passages in "The Little Prince" with a brush, and the response was very good, and Mr. Zhou later said that I also wanted to try to paint.
Zhou Kexi: The first painting I tried was "Duel" in "The Count of Monte Cristo", when I sent the painting to Mr. Pan, sent it over, and after two minutes of no answer, I immediately told Mr. Pan: "Maybe you wasted your paper." "Because this sprinkling of gold wax notes was prepared for me by him." Mr. Pan immediately said: "No, this work is to be used." ”
Panton: Actually, I was surprised, really surprised.
Zhou Kexi, excerpt from The Little Prince, 2021
Zhou Kexi: If Mr. Pan had acquiesced to my statement at that time, I would not have painted again.
Gu Cunyan: Words and paintings are connected, Teacher Zhou, I think you must have had a lot of foundation in writing before, and you were born in 1942, and when you went to school, you also had requirements for brush characters, and in your old age, you picked up the brush again, and between the lines, you will always be immersed in those books you have read and your own education. As far as calligraphy is concerned, many of the current education regard calligraphy as a pure technical or visual art, in fact, this is a big problem, calligraphy is first of all cultural, personality type, books like its people, especially rare is a kind of book atmosphere. Reading your words, I think of an old gentleman like Chen Lemin, whose calligraphy atmosphere is also very good, he is engaged in foreign research, and he once served as the director of the Institute of European Studies of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. He did not specialize in the creation of calligraphy and painting artists, but because he liked it, there was a sense of elegance in his calligraphy, as Chen Lemin himself said: Chinese painting and calligraphy are heavy on connotations, and if the connotation of "literature" is removed, no matter how realistic, it will also lose the most precious in Chinese painting and calligraphy - the book volume qi, Dong Qichang said "morale", in today's words, it is called "intellectual qi".
Of course, the book temperament and morale are also a very big topic, just like the literati are divided into big literati and small literati. But since it is calligraphy, the volume qi is at least, that is to say, at least it must be a reader.
Zhou Kexi: Mr. Chen Lemin is a senior I respect. Many years ago, he sat next to me at dinner. At that time, he was already going to have hemodialysis three times a week, and I asked him, in such a physical condition, why did he insist on researching and writing? He thought for a moment and said, "I can't stop wanting." "I was very touched to hear it. Later, he also specially asked his daughter and my good friend Chen Feng to tell me, "Proust's novels are well translated by Mr. Zhou. "He said yes, which is a great encouragement to me.
Mr. Chen Lemin calligraphy
Mr. Chen Lemin was waving
Gu Cunyan: Did you ever practice calligraphy and writing with him at that time?
Chow: Unfortunately, no. I wasn't writing. In Mr. Chen's book that Chen Feng sent me, I have seen his brush writing, as you said, elegant, diluted, and bookish.
Wang Zengqi calligraphy and painting
Gu Cunyan: A few years ago, the Zhejiang Art Museum held a special exhibition of Mr. Chen Lemin's calligraphy and paintings, and I was also very amazed after watching it, including Mr. Wang Zengqi, although it is named after the article, but in the calligraphy and painting, there is a rare book atmosphere at present, and there is a clean and elegant super-leisure. Huang Tingjian's "Book of The Eastern Slope" said: "Yu is the Book of Dongpo, the spirit of learning articles, depressed and depressed, issued between pen and ink, so that others can not reach it in the end." ”
Bookish qi is not a style, but a kind of learning and temperament that is naturally seen in the handwriting. Teacher Zhou, do you still want to talk about the road of calligraphy? When did you really turn your interest to calligraphy?
Zhou Kexi: The road of calligraphy, this statement does not seem to be very appropriate to me. I'm just a calligraphy lover. Let me talk about my process from math and translation to the beginning of learning words. After switching from mathematics to literary translation, I was fully committed. I love math, but I love literary translation even more. The reason why I put down the translation is because I am old and have little energy. There is one thing that is important to me personally in 2019. The One-Way Street Bookstore Alliance awards a Person of the Year Tribute Award every year, and at the award ceremony held in Hangzhou at the end of 2019, it was finally announced that this award was awarded to me. At this time, everyone in the audience spontaneously stood up and applauded. This unexpected scene made me very moved. I feel that the translator's efforts are not stones that sink into the water, and your efforts are being paid attention to. At the same time, I also feel that if I can't get into translation at my best, I should retreat. Since then, I have really started the "carrying translation" and serious posting mode of life. Although the translation is put down, if there is a republished old translation, I will still be very involved in revising the proof, because I believe that the translation is not finalized, and the good translation is changed by "seven changes and eight changes". But the state that had always felt that there was no time to post was finally changed. My friend who knows how to write advised me to write well, and it is not okay not to post. "Those who have learned but cannot, and those who have not learned but can also", this is the most reasonable.
A photocopy of the lecture notes used by Mr. Zhou Kexi when teaching mathematics at East China Normal University
Gu Cunyan: You retired from the rapids in 2019, choosing to write "send a life with an end", although you did not write for ten years, but there was still a foundation before, you have not given up writing before.
Zhou Kexi: I don't have any basis for writing brush words, I just like it. In the past, many of the shop signs were written with a brush. I like to read shop signs when I walk down the street. For example, "Wang Jiasha", at that time, I did not know Mr. Zhang Ruyi, nor did I know that he wrote it, but I would look at it every time I walked by. These three words are still very characteristic.
Gu Cunyan: There is also the "Shanghai Concert Hall" written by Mr. Zhang Ruyi.
Zhou Kexi: At that time, many people wrote about it. Mr. Zhang Sen's "Zhending Chicken" and "Plum Garden Spring" are more familiar to everyone. Mr. Liu Yiwen wrote the shop signS I have also seen, on Jiangsu Road. Like to see the store signs, is like to see the brush words. Now that I think about it, I like two languages, one is language, so I like to translate, and the other is to write, so I want to "spend" the rest of my life by writing.
Gu Cunyan: You translate so many words, when you are tired, will you write a few lines to adjust and take a break?
Chow: It's rare. There is not much of this Yaxing, or there is not much time.
Gu Cunyan: As far as writing is concerned, what posts were there at that time? Have you ever given yourself a plan? Or according to their own interests?
Zhou Kexi: I like the "Book Spectrum", and after a while I will read it again and come to the end, but when I come, I don't come from the beginning to the end. I have a problem since I was a child, there are many hobbies, special miscellaneous, all of which are put down after getting it. According to my mother, it was called "three-day incense for the newly opened toilet." I always remember this sentence, and I take it as a warning. Fortunately, I am still relatively dedicated to literary translation, stumbling and climbing for more than thirty years, without "three days of incense". But as soon as it comes to writing, the old problem comes again, I like everything, and it often changes. At first, he liked Wen Zhengming and was fascinated by his small books, and later he liked Wang Duo. In the "Song Four Families", except for Huang Tingjian, they all liked it. Mi and Su needless to say, it is Cai Xiang, and I don't think he has any daughterly attitude, but I just feel that it is not easy to get started. Like more continuously, one is Yan Zhenqing's "Sacrifice Nephew Manuscript", every time I read it, I feel very moved, the article is touching, and the words are also touching. The first is the "Book Score", a person who likes to write and write grass, if he does not study the "Book Score", he will not be able to write at all. Of course, I have also visited Wang Xizhi's "Seventeen Theses", but it seems to be a bit of a point. I am ashamed to say that there are still many words that I do not know the cursive method, and I will be timid when I write.
Sun Guoting's "Book Genealogy" (Partial)
Gu Cunyan: In fact, reading posts is also a very important way.
Zhou Kexi: Yes, reading posts is as important as posting. Many years ago, a media outlet asked me to tell me what I had seen and make a list. When I mentioned which posts I read, they asked what it meant, and I said that reading posts is also a kind of reading, and they didn't seem to think so. Mr. Gu just asked if there was writing as a transfer for translation. It's rare to write, but I often read posts, and reading posts is a kind of enjoyment, which will calm your heart and relax your tense nerves.
Gu Cunyan: Including this word of yours, it is not something that can be practiced in 2019, from your youth to middle age, maybe you are reading posts and paying attention to calligraphy, an activity that has been continuous, but you are not so deliberate, intentionally or unintentionally have done it, I don't know if this is the case?
Pan Dun: I think so, since 2019, the first time I saw Mr. Zhou's words, it was Lu Hao who sent me a photo, saying that this is Mr. Zhou Kexi's words, and I said that this is very well written. In this year, in fact, I looked at his words, the progress was rapid, and the words he showed me at the beginning were really different from the words he was exhibiting now.
Gu Cunyan: I remember a few years ago, I remember whether Chen Feixue seemed to have sent Teacher Zhou's calligraphy, but at that time I saw that the impression was not too deep, but this time Pan Dun sent the calligraphy to me, but it was really impressive.
Chow Kexi Excerpt from "Madame Bovary"
Zhou Kexi Excerpt "In Search of Lost Time"
Zhou Kexi: My own feeling is that every six months I will feel some changes, and I often look back at what I wrote before, and I feel that there are many shortcomings.
Pandon: I think some people are learning what it's like.
Gu Cunyan: In fact, writing every day, you can't see the progress, that is, half a year and a year of comparison, only to see that there is some progress.
Zhou Kexi: The words sent to the circle of friends are always ok, otherwise they will not send the circle of friends. But often after half a year to see, you will feel how such a thing, at that time will also send a circle of friends. Now I really want to post well, and after seeing so many good things from my predecessors, I feel more and more that I am too much worse. Take a random piece of self-written word, I will always pick out a lot of faults, almost every word can pick out faults.
Pan Dun: Teacher Zhou, I don't think we can talk about this matter in this way, although it is a virtue to pick the shortcomings of each word, in fact, it is not so picky, because anyone can pick out any word that is wrong.
Gu Cunyan: I agree with this sentence. In fact, the biggest feature of literati characters is that in addition to the book qi, there are also lines and rhythms, breath, which is the most important, not a single word, especially the kung fu and breath outside the word. Liu Xizai's "Outline of books" said: "Everyone who talks about bookishness is based on morale. If the femininity, the soldier's temperament, the village qi, the city atmosphere, the craftsman's qi, the rotten qi, the slang qi, the haiku qi, the jianghu qi, the door politeness, the wine and meat gas, and the vegetable and bamboo shoot gas, all of them are abandoned. ”
Pan Dun: Actually, before Teacher Zhou came today, I just sent a WeChat message to Mr. Dong Qiao, and he told me that Mr. Zhou's characters present knowledge, and such an exhibition was welcomed, representing that knowledge was recognized.
Gu Cunyan: Teacher Zhou from the love of writing, attention to calligraphy, these decades, the first seventy years, or from the beginning of school, so many years of mathematics, translation of literature connotation, including music, culture everyone's atmosphere nourished you, and then you to 2019 after the concentration of writing, just like Su Dongpo said: "My literature is like the source of Wan hu springs, can be produced anywhere." What is presented in the word is not a word, but carries the kung fu outside the word, and the flow of the heart.
Pan Dun: One more thing, when someone like Mr. Zhou reaches his seventies, he starts to want to write, which is possible. Like my generation, if I'm lucky enough to live to be 79, if I want to write with a brush, there's no possibility, that's a problem.
Gu Cunyan: Not necessarily.
Pan Dun: This is a problem of pen habits, because our generation, of course, before I was in my thirties, basically still took a pen to write, not a computer, but after thirty years old, work is completely with the computer, and now young people, after birth, use a pen less, this is that you do not have the habit of using a pen. You can look at Mr. Zhou's translation manuscripts and his mathematical lectures outside, which are very neatly written, which is a habit of using a pen.
Let me give you another example, for example, Mr. Dong Qiao - because Mr. Zhou and Mr. Dong are two very interesting people, one is that they are about the same age, Mr. Dong was born in 1942, and Mr. Zhou was born at the end of 1942, one year apart. After Mr. Dong retired, he also did two things, writing, playing the piano, he played the piano is also for relaxation, Mr. Dong is a collector, his vision and energy in Hong Kong are different, this is the accumulation of youth. Mr. Dong went to Taiwan from Indonesia at the age of 17, and before the age of 17, his father required him to practice words every day. From the age of 17, he basically did not have the opportunity to write brush characters, 17 years old until he retired at the age of 72, basically did not write brush characters, except that sometimes some friends invited him to mention a jai number, you go to Lu Hao's home to see the word, more than twenty years ago Mr. Dong wrote, at that time Mr. Dong's words were completely different from the words of Mr. Dong now. He started writing after he retired at the age of 72, and now he is getting better and better, which is a problem of pen habits, his training as a child, because I bought the letters he wrote in the 1990s, he wrote pen words really beautiful, you see Mr. Zhou's pen words are also very beautiful, he wrote well in English and French.
Gu Cunyan: Their generation has a clear cultural context to nourish, and the "first milk" of aesthetics and learning is also very important. The current so-called calligraphy circle, whether it is calligraphy education, the presentation of calligraphy exhibitions, and calligraphy in the context of Chinese literati are two concepts, and many people present calligraphy as a pure showmanship and technique, or as a so-called profession, which is problematic. Speaking of calligraphy, we must see the things behind calligraphy, especially personality and education, which have a lot to do with reading.
Mr. Zhang Ruyi inscribed the hand scroll
"In ancient times, there was no such thing as a 'calligrapher'"
Pan Dun: We never mention the word "calligraphy", that is, Chinese and Western, self-written and self-painting. Even Mr. Dong is the same, he never talks about writing calligraphy himself.
Gu Cunyan: I spoke to Mr. Zhang Ruyi for the first time more than a decade ago, and he said that he had always been opposed to saying "calligraphers" – he didn't think there was such a thing as a "calligrapher", and he always emphasized this point of view, including in the 1980s, when he simply quit the Calligraphers Association.
Zhou Kexi: In ancient times, there was actually no such thing as a "calligrapher.".
Gu Cunyan: Why Teacher Zhou's calligraphy makes me feel very surprised and precious, is that people can see that a traditional knowledge molecule has a process from unconscious to conscious in writing, and finally truly integrates his knowledge into the handwriting.
Pan Dun: Actually, like digging into people like Mr. Zhou and Mr. Dong, I will show you the parts where I think they are still connected with tradition. Remember when someone said, can this exhibition affect anything? I said it didn't affect anything. What can you recover? I said that there is no way to recover anything, that is, to find out for you this group of people who still have this ability, to let you see it, and it may be gone in the future.
Gu Cunyan: You should not be so discouraged, and you may not be the last batch.
Zhou Kexi excerpts from Fu Lei Translation, 2021
Zhou Kexi excerpts parts of Fu Lei's translation
Zhou Kexi: I feel very lucky about this. As Mr. Pan just said, we have known each other for less than a year. Although I have also talked about it, I am still very curious about how Mr. Pan found me, is it because Lu Hao showed you my words?
Pan Dun: It was Lu Hao who showed me a look, and I thought it was okay. We decided to do this at the end of May last year because our exhibition time last year was full, and I felt that I needed to have some time for Mr. Zhou to prepare. So first, Mr. Zhou participated in the group exhibition last October, he wrote something related to literature, and then it was set for March today, a little earlier than we thought. In the past seven or eight years, starting from Dongqiao, we have done exhibitions of Dongqiao, Mr. Bai Qianshen, Yang Zhishui, etc., and I have never said that I do calligraphy exhibitions, these people are cultural people, they have their own achievements in their own fields, and they maintain a little background of traditional Chinese literati.
Zhou Kexi: This exhibition is inseparable from Mr. Pan's encouragement. There are two ways of encouragement, one is the encouragement of verbal communication, and the other is the encouragement of personal practice. He encouraged me in the latter way. After a few words of greeting at the first meeting, Mr. Pan went straight to the point and said that he wanted to hold an exhibition for me. I was sudden, surprised, and of course happy.
Pan Dun: My role is a middleman, to show works like Mr. Zhou to people who like him, if Mr. Zhou, who I did today, is the first exhibition, I must be a little drummer in my heart, a little nervous. But Mr. Zhou is already what I have done, I have done a lot of exhibitions, almost the tenth such figure, for me, I have a number.
Gu Cunyan: In the process of preparing the exhibition, are there any stylistic adjustments? Including calligraphic style.
Zhou Kexi: At the beginning, most of the poems I wrote were Tang poems and Song poems. Writing is something I really love, but the problem is that as an exhibit, it may lack characteristics. What are my characteristics? Not in the word good, just now Mr. Dong said that learning to cultivate is polite, in the end I am engaged in translation, is a translator, the average person thinks that translators deal with foreign literature, it is not easy to pay attention to whether Chinese characters are written well or not. Although I may not write well, I am still more careful and a little particular. If you are a few years older than me and have had child skills when you were a child, you will pay more attention and pay more attention. However, I was a bit ambitious in learning everything. I used to learn a little bit of violin, and I don't like to play scales and etudes, I just want to play music.
Gu Cunyan: Sometimes it is not a bad thing to be high and far away, there is a saying in China, "Take the law from the top, get the middle, take the law from the middle, get the bottom." ”
Zhou Kexi: The technique still needs to be exquisite, otherwise it will always be amateur (amateur). The situation of literary translation is different, I am not satisfied with just being an amateur, I want to treat it as a career. Not from a science class, there are many deficiencies, so there is a lack of what to make up, do not dare to be stubborn and slack.
I'm not afraid of your laughter, I also tried to learn a little piano. If you don't practice the basic skills well, you have to play Bach. I identified myself as amateur, just playing the songs that I thought were really good. Of course, the result is more than enough and insufficient strength, and it is natural to stop cooking. Writing with a brush, I also consider myself to be amateur, but it may take a little more effort.
Gu Cunyan: It is a kind of heart to send. When I talked about music, the idea at that time was to listen, what was your idea of writing? Isn't it for the sake of looking good?
Zhou Kexi: It's still a bit of a good look. I think my flaws are still a little too much to look good. In fact, really good words, not necessarily very good-looking. Of course, I don't like a pavilion like Shen Du' that only seeks to be stable and "good-looking", but if I encounter a pavilion body with stronger pen skills, such as Liang Shizheng's, I will still involuntarily accept it. Speaking of "taking the law from above", I am reminded of a conversation between Mr. Zhang Ruyi and me. He said he was going to come to the Orchid Pavilion Preface. I said okay, I'll go back and pro two or three times. He said, "Two or three times is enough, a hundred times!" ”
Zhou Kexi recorded Cocteau's "Thirty-Year-Old Poet" and translated, hard pen on paper, 2021
Gu Cunyan: Just said, in fact, quantitative change will lead to qualitative change, just like you said in half a year, there will be a gap, there may not be a gap between today and tomorrow, there is a gap between last year and this year, there is a gap, there is really a gap, if you are near.
Zhou Kexi: Yes, I now feel that the words I wrote before are not good, because I am posting.
Gu Cunyan: That is your vision and the kung fu in your hands have improved. Later, you may not have been able to come to the "Orchid Pavilion Preface" a hundred times, right?
Zhou Kexi: Shame, not so much. "Orchid Pavilion Preface" is not very difficult to come to be like. But it's hard to really draw some nutrients from it. On the contrary, Yan Zhenqing's "Sacrifice Nephew Manuscript" and "Scramble for Seat Posts" seem to be easier to absorb...
Gu Cunyan: Feng Ben's "Preface to the Orchid Pavilion" is more charming, but the seventeen posts, aunt posts, and funeral posts may be closer to Wang Xizhi's original style. I also think that Yan Zhenqing's "Sacrifice Nephew Manuscript" and "Battle for Seats" are easier to absorb.
Zhou Kexi: I now want to make up the letter. After all, writing letters is the basic skill, and I like the "Longzang Temple Stele", but I really got started to know that this post is difficult to come. Not to mention that the knot body is not easy to learn, and the original stele is so fragmented that the handwriting is rambling, which is a major obstacle to copying. I made small talk with Mr. Lu Hao and said that I probably had to buy a more expensive and well-made version. Instead, he said, the cheaper version may be clearer because they've been patched. As a result, I bought two versions. Some Wei monuments, such as the "Zhang Hei Nu Stele", are simply perfect, but too difficult to learn.
Gu Cunyan: In fact, you don't have to learn like, as long as you feel, read the post, and then get started, the nourishment for you is already in your words.
Chow: That's right. A lot of things are in a hurry, you have to take it slow.
Gu Cunyan: I feel curious about the point that you have been teaching mathematics at Huashi University for so many years, and then you have transferred to the publishing house to translate, and in your later years, you have written and written paintings, and the first paragraph written at the entrance of the exhibition hall reads "Translation is a way of life", which is very touching to me. In fact, calligraphy and painting are also a way of life.
Zhou Kexi: I think that whether it is translating or writing, you invest in it, it becomes a way of life. For example, I was able to have this exhibition because I met Mr. Pan. If I hadn't met him, would I have continued to write? Also. Of course, I was very happy to meet him and have this exhibition.
Pan Dun: I am also very happy, I also want to be some representative figures in Shanghai's cultural circles, like Mr. Dong Qiao in Hong Kong, Zhao Heng in Beijing, Yang Zhishui in Beijing, 7788, have done it, Mr. Zheng Zheng in Shanghai has had an exhibition before, I feel that I have not seriously planned an exhibition of a Shanghainese, just Have Mr. Zhou, which is also a very complete thing.
Zhou Kexi: Just now I mentioned Mr. Zheng Zheng, I don't know him, but I know that he is a good friend of Mr. Xie Zhiliu. Mr. Xie's experience of writing touched me. He said he hadn't worked hard, but commentators thought he had done so. He once said a sentence to the effect that there are so many posts, including Zhang Xu's (he highly respects Zhang Xu), in which I think good things are taken, and things that I think are not so good, I don't want them. This "take-ism" is very simple and very pertinent.
Gu Cunyan: And it is only when it is in line with one's own mentality that it will be taken.
Chow: Right. Dong Qichang's "Essays on Painting the Zen Room" is a very interesting book. He must call Jin and Tang, not Song. He said: "The Jin and Tang dynasties must record them one by one and often refer to them. "People like him still have to copy down the words written by their predecessors, and often refer to them, what reason for a beginner like me not to try to imitate it." When we were young, we learned Chinese, and we all learned it one word at a time, one sentence after another. My old line of work is mathematics, and mathematics and writing seem to be incompatible, but some ideas are still the same. The branch of my research is Riemann geometry, and Mr. Chen Shengshen, a generation of masters of the geometry world, once said that to do mathematics, there must be something to play in the hand. Everyone is characterized by simple and easy to understand, but extremely profound. In fact, it is the same with literary translation. My experience is that there are some sentence patterns that can be put in the hand, which means that Chinese, foreign languages, and the mastery of the sentence patterns must be mastered to the extent that they can be grasped, so that they can accurately understand the original text as soon as possible and use the most appropriate sentence form to translate into Chinese. Dong Qichang said that "record one by one, often refer to", I think what I mean is to accumulate knots that can be "played", and can be used at any time when needed.
Gu Cunyan: What have you been doing lately?
Zhou Kexi: A while ago, I was in Linwu Ju. He studied Mi Fu, but I don't think he is as brash as Mi Fu and is more peaceful.
Gu Cunyan: He has the charm of rice writing and ink, less wind and horses, but he seems to be more graceful than rice, and has his own steep temperament.
Southern Song Dynasty Wu Ju Xingshu
Zhou Kexi: But he is not as famous as Mi Fu. In the eyes of some people, he may not be "up", at most he is up and down, but for me, he is already very up. Take the law. Always relative. There is a saying that modern people cannot be learned, and instead of learning Shen Yinmo or Bai Banana, it is better to directly learn the "Second King".
Gu Cunyan: Many modern characters still have modern problems, and it may be better to be more ancient.
Zhou Kexi: In fact, Shen Yinmo is very tempting, I used to like his words, and his words are relatively easy to learn. His penmanship can be said to be very sophisticated, even very subtle, but perhaps something is missing. Chen Duxiu's early comment on his words "its customs are in the bones" is not entirely unreasonable.
Pan Dun: I think shen Yinmo will not lose when he does not have the desire to perform.
Shen Yin silently wrote a book
Gu Cunyan: Some of Shen's pens are excellent, but sometimes too much attention is paid to technique and subtlety, and there is a problem. But sometimes look at some of the codexes he wrote, it is very good, because it is more casual, and when there is a desire to perform or create, it will be vulgar.
Zhou Kexi: People are often like this.
Gu Cunyan: So just said that the "Sacrifice Nephew Manuscript" is actually better, that is, it is very casual, from the heart, I did not expect that the so-called "writing calligraphy" and "writing works", that is loyal and indignant, frustrated and depressed, those who do not mean to write, full of hatred of the country and the family, all in the handwriting, all natural, without any deliberateness, including "Cold Food Post", etc., are such unintentional works.
Yan Zhenqing's "Sacrifice Nephew Manuscript"
Su Shi's "Cold Food Post"
Pan Dun: Let's go to Mr. Zhang Chonghe's words, in fact, Zhang Chonghe has never thought of performing to anyone in his life of writing, she teaches writing Chinese characters in the United States, in fact, no one is Zhiyin, suddenly one day Mr. Bai came, how do you write so well? Dong Qiao saw it and said that this word was really good.
Gu Cunyan: I remember that the most profound impression of Zhang Chonghe's characters was a set of "Shen Congwen Bieji", which was the words she inscribed, which was really style, and at that time, I also particularly liked Shen Congwen.
Pan Dun: She said that she was a student of Shen Yinmo, but in my mind, her words were much higher than Shen Ge's.
Gu Cunyan: What Mr. Pan is talking about is actually a question of character.
Zhou Kexi: Shen Yinmo wrote a small note to Zhang Chong and a list of the notes she was asked to write. This handwritten note is brilliantly written and very enduring.
Pan Dun: I have seen, this is the best thing written by Shen Yinmo, not at all like Shen Yinmo wrote, in Dongqiao's home, it was Zhang Chong and the forties in Yunnan, bought a raw edge paper on the side of the road, cut the raw edge, this raw edge was taken to the teacher's house, let Shen Yinmo write casually, Shen took a pen to write chapter grass on it, that writing is really good, after writing Zhang Chonghe took it back to Suzhou, asked someone to carefully frame and bring it to the United States, to her nineties, sell things, This thing was bought for Mr. Dong, and it was written by Shen Yinmo, the best I had ever seen.
Gu Cunyan: I have not seen this, listening to you say this can be imagined, I hope to look back at it. Not using calligraphy as a desire to perform is actually a care and presentation of one's own heart.
Zhou Kexi: I have a collection of essays called Traces of Translation, and the publisher asked me to write the title of the book myself. I wrote for almost an hour in the morning, and none of them were satisfactory. It was time to eat lunch, and there was still ink in the Yantai, so I picked up a piece of raw paper and wrote these three words casually, and I actually felt that it was better than the previous ones. In the end, these words were used.
Zhou Ke wrote the couplet scene
Gu Cunyan: So in the "Treatise on Books", it is said that the writer, scattered, writing is a kind of scattering, casual and natural, if it is always a serious book, to hold the feeling of the shelf, it will not relax. The most famous calligraphy in the history of Chinese calligraphy can be said to have been written very inadvertently. In fact, speaking of this topic, let's talk about the history of calligraphy, involving the core topic of calligraphy, writing or to immerse in people's original hearts, with their own inner care, into your real temperament of things, that is a good word.
Zhou Kexi: You can't be a person.
Gu Cunyan: This is the essence of art, and the state of mind must be put down.
Zhou Kexi: But a lot of times it's just hard to put it down. For example, there is an invisibly pressure to write a sprinkled gold wax note. When you think of sprinkling gold, wax letters, and exhibitions, it is inevitable that your mind will be burdened. I think that writing is not the same as being a person, being a person should be correct, writing cannot be too positive, and the so-called "odd is positive", otherwise it is not so interesting. Moreover, interesting will have difficulty, and once you are like a post, I am afraid it will not be too interesting.
Gu Cunyan: Everyone is very similar, it is customary.
Zhou Kexi: For a while I was enthusiastic about Wang Duo, and he often wrote crookedly at the beginning, and then wrote down line by line, and the magic was that the last part was not crooked, it was "right". After knowing Mr. Pan, I once half-jokingly told him that I wanted to write the first line first, make it a little crooked, and then pull it back. Mr. Pan immediately said don't do this, the audience we face may not necessarily accept this, this depends on the occasion.
Pandon: Writing crooked deliberately is not the same as writing crooked because there is no alignment.
Zhou Kexi: It is not entirely intentional, that is, it is handwritten at the beginning, and the handwriting is often crooked to the left. Then go all out and bring it back little by little so that there's fun in it. In the "Book Genealogy", it is said that "since you know that you are peaceful and righteous, you must pursue dangers", which I think is what it means. But Mr. Pan said it depends on the occasion, and I agree.
Gu Cunyan: Yes, writing or groping on your own, because calligraphy is a comprehensive presentation of the mind, learning, and personality.
Zhou Kexi: I think that even if it is a so-called literati character, the techniques of penmanship and knotting still need to be there. For the ancients, the so-called literati character is only a matter of breath, and it is really a problem of learning, because the basic techniques he already had when he was a child. Our situation is different. Without learning some basic techniques, breath, etc., I am afraid it is impossible to talk about. "Practice makes perfect, only to get the breath", is a good saying. Or be sophisticated and not sloppy. A friend who knows how to write says I write too fast. This criticism is very pertinent. Blindly fast, it is inevitable that it will be sloppy. When the speed of the pen is mentioned in the "Book", it is said: "Those who are fast, the opportunity to escape, the late, and the reward." The word "appreciation" is a very good word. When the pen should be slow, it must be slowed down, otherwise it will be difficult to appreciate and enjoy the pleasure of holding the tube.
Gu Cunyan: Let me add one more, you said that calligraphy and painting are self-entertainment, self-entertainment is a very high realm, I think you write, it brings you happiness, compared with translation, happiness is not the same? There must be a lot of happiness, otherwise you wouldn't be so persistent.
Zhou Kexi: There are places where it is happy. Translation has its own joy of translation, we say that the translation is bitter, maybe the bitterness is more. In fact, the translation is of course Gan. If there is no sweetness, only bitterness, then what else can support you to persevere? The joy of writing, I find more direct. Sometimes I write carelessly, and I will vaguely feel the catharsis of emotions, and even the outpouring of temperament. Such self-enjoyment is wonderful.
Gu Cunyan: Teacher Zhou's translation to self-painting is a person's happiness, and he does not need a big team. Teacher Zhou, I think your painting can be introduced a little.
Zhou Kexi: Most of the paintings in the exhibits are copied, which is not a real skill. Moreover, due to the lack of basic training links, even if it is copied, sometimes it takes several drafts, and then the loss is sprinkled with gold paper.
Gu Cunyan: Is the title of this painting translator written by Teacher Zhou?
Pan Dun: When we were discussing the content of this exhibition, at the beginning, Teacher Zhou wrote a lot of Tang poems and Song poems to us, and I said that everyone writes these things, there is no meaning, the first time we do something that no one else has done. We probably set several directions, one is Mr. Zhou's translation, the chapters in it, frankly speaking, I don't see much of his translation, and the familiarity with the chapters is definitely not in place, so I say that this part you choose, you choose the chapter, the illustration part can be. The second part, since you are a translator, the history of translators in modern and modern China is not very long, let's commemorate the translators and predecessors in modern history that we feel are more important, so we see Fu Lei, Lin Yutang, Zhu Shenghao, etc., and the third part, Mr. Zhou's own French translation, is the translation that was published in newspapers and other magazines at that time.
Zhou Kexi translated the manuscript
Zhou Kexi: The third part is the translation of poems. I don't have many translations of poems, and none of them have been published. This time, each translated poem was copied in French, Chinese, framed and framed. Among them, Lamartine's "Lake" (excerpt) is specially translated for the exhibition. Mr. Pan customized a batch of special notes for me. This kind of paper texture is very good, structured but not slippery, and the pen is very comfortable to write.
Now that I think about it, a person can still learn something when he is old, which is really the favor of Heaven. In this process, I have more than one friend who is willing to accompany me and help me, and I am full of gratitude for this.
(The dialogue in this article was reviewed by Mr. Zhou Kexi, and the recording was compiled by Zhi Peng and Yang Jie)