Kim In-soon
Ai Wei
This kind of writing is a bit like an old photographic negative, you can see the vague images on it, but there is no paper and developer, the people and things on the negative, and the scenery, they are real, but we can't see the real face and the subtleties.
Ai Wei: Your recent novels or essays,"Yu Zhen," "Mr. Ono," "All Beings," and "The Party for Farewell" seem to have changed geographically and spatially from before, often with an international background, the story of "Yu Zhen" takes place in the United States and South Korea, "Mr. Ono" takes place in Japan and Changchun, and "The Party for Farewell" is about an international PEN conference, and you put yourself into these works, so that these works have a certain degree of relevance to your experience, in these works, You're trying to break the line between documentary and fiction, and "I" is always inside, like a witness, with a tendency to prose culture. We all know that prose generally cannot be "fictional", but fiction must be fictional, and when you decide to write in this way, do you want to create the effect of fiction that is not fictional?
Kim In-soon: When you say that, it's true. Although it is not intentional, these recent works do have such a commonality, "not fictional fiction", which is accurately summarized.
After writing "In Memory of My Friend Jinzhi", for almost three or four years, I did not write a novel. Writing is an instinct and a skill. If you don't write for a long time, it is inevitable that you will be strange; and if you are unfamiliar, you will make life timid. This is different from when I first started writing. At that time, it was also strange, but the newborn calves were not afraid of tigers, dared to think of any story, dared to draw any cake, and occasionally delusionally, and painted themselves on white paper very new and beautiful. When people reach middle age, they know that the sky is high and the earth is thick, and their individuals are small, and they begin to have a desolate state of mind and begin to examine life experience. "Yu Zhen", "Sentient Beings", and "Mr. Ono" have the same characteristics: that is, the novel is fictional, but the story, the characters, and many details are non-fictional. These real-world experiences allowed me to quickly get back to the state of fiction writing. These three short stories are virtual and real, real and virtual. I was in it, witnessing the ups and downs of people from the standpoint of a bystander, with mixed tragedies and joys. This kind of writing is a bit like the old photographic negatives, you can see the blurry images on them, but there is no paper and developers, the people and things on the negatives, and the landscapes, the shadows, they are real, but we can't see the real face and the subtleties. I write these people and stories, and my vision is like paper and developer, very subjective, so these stories are novels and not prose. The characters and stories in "The Party for Farewell" are not lacking in twists and legends, but they are really "non-fiction". Does "geospatial" mean "middle-aged state of mind"? When I was young, I only looked ahead; but when people reach middle age, the power of "opening up" is gradually diminishing, but they frequently look back at the "past" and wonder how they have become what they are today, can a person's change represent the vicissitudes of a group of people?
The 12 characters in "All Beings" are all people I met or met 30 years ago; the prototype of "Mr. Ono" is a Japanese professor I met 20 years ago, and Yumasa is also a friend I have known for 10 years. Suddenly, but he took care of the path, and the sky was green and green.
Ai Wei: "The Party for Farewell" appears in the guise of prose, which can be considered your personal experience, but we writers understand that there is never a so-called documentary, all writing is the result of choice, in fact, when reading "The Party", some scenes, especially the last drinking and chatting part, are very much like the end of a novel, so this text is very peculiar, almost has elements of fiction, characters, experiences, emotions, and even casual stories, of course, the form is completely prose, I think you're also acting as prose. Do you think prose can be fictional? To what extent can it be "fictitious"?
Kim In-soon: "The Party for Farewell" is a very special PEN meeting that deserves to record the whole process, and before the meeting I noticed that the theme of this PEN meeting was: a platform for communication and exchange. When I arrived in Seoul, I learned that this "platform" was for writers and poets of Korean descent who were scattered around the world. Everything I recorded in this article is true, including a soup and a meal. They have power. I'm on the spot at a meeting, and I'm often struck by the experience of a narrator, and I want to document that shock.
You could say it's like a novel, but it's not. If it's a novel, the story is a different story entirely. And it can't be a story, everyone speaks at the conference for only thirty minutes, but the story behind them is at least 200,000 words.
Can prose be fictional? The answer is a matter of opinion. My answer is no. The reason is not really a matter of the way writers write. I talked to Zhou Xiaofeng about this topic, and she asked me, if things are real, or emotions and emotions are real, just moved, then is this a fiction? Now, I'm answering this question from the reader's point of view, reading novels and reading prose with very different moods. Fiction is fictional art, girls sit on the sheets to the sky, we will feel wow, this detail is written fantastically, magic realism real bull! But if the prose is written like this, the reader will curse, right? Writers when we don't have IQ? Why do we read prose, isn't it true to read that? You're telling me now that sitting on a sheet can go to heaven? Is it to stomp on the heel of your shoe and go to hell?
We don't read prose for stories, we read prose because of words, because of thought, because of revelation, even because of a certain tone. The most important thing is authenticity. Those bits and pieces squeezed out of real events, if there is fiction, are not tears mixed with tap water, not only very annoying, but also make the reader feel deceived.
Because I like it, it is inevitable that the pen will linger a lot when writing; when I write about people, I will subconsciously restrain it, because people have the same heart, since they are empathetic, why should they be so trivial?
Ai Wei: I especially like the description of food in "The Party for Farewell". I love good food, but I never remember the name of the food, and I don't know how to make it. You are very talented in describing food and often make me look at me with a lot of interest. There are also descriptions of food in "Mr. Ono" and "Yujin". I envy that you can take what you've eaten, and I believe that words clearly trump real food. I sometimes think that we actually have very good food in Zhejiang, but this makes me turn a blind eye to food. Of course, there are delicacies everywhere, but the food you write about is vivid and fragrant, very delicate, and does not have the sense of boldness of the "north", but feels very southern. This aspect has to do with the tone of your writing, which has a fairly elegant classical atmosphere. In addition, I think that you write about food quite emotionally, but when you write about people, the text will become restrained and calm, which makes me feel that in your subconscious, there seems to be a different attitude towards people and things.
Kim In-soon: I have a deep love for food. Food represents too many things, metaphysical can cover all the fireworks, metaphysical can be a row of egrets on the sky. For individuals, food is almost the vein of human life. I often wonder if it would be nice to write a novel with the food I ate for the rest of my life.
We often say, may people last. People can't last long, the flowers are similar from year to year, and the years are different. Mountains and rivers and trees change with the four seasons, but each season is similar; people are born, old, sick and die, compared with nature, it is considered to be "rapid decay". Things have existed much longer than people, and they are also much more meaningful, and the history contained in the museum is set by things, and people, no matter which dynasty or generation, are white bones. Those who are obsessed with antiques, are fascinated by beauty or time? I think it's all there. Objects, like food, come from the hands of people, and people will disappear, but objects and delicacies can be passed on. Compared with objects, man has more souls, and other things, man is the creator, the reformer. There is too much human indecency. Because I like it, it is inevitable that the pen will linger a lot when writing; when I write about people, I will subconsciously restrain it, because people have the same heart, since they are empathetic, why should they be so trivial? Enough is enough to say the point.
Ai Wei: We all know that any article has a central idea, the essay "Gathering" is about the gathering of Korean "separatists", and in fact these people do not know Korean, they already have their own culture, and when I saw the end, I actually saw some kind of hallucinogen that people co-created, and at that moment, they had a common imagination about blood and nation that made them start to have a feeling similar to "nation", but in fact, they were already people of another culture in essence. They are no longer Koreans, so when I see their final behavior, I feel that there is a gap between their imagination and their real feelings, because they are using their own country's culture to express this "national" feeling, which is quite out of tune and misplaced, and it is this dislocation that makes me feel a certain sense of life in the world. At the same time, I believe that this is just a fleeting moment, when they leave, when they return to their respective lives, maybe that moment will give them a dream-like feeling, they may see a strange self in that scene.
Kim In-soon: Yes. Sobriety has never been absent. These writers and poets from different countries, fathers or grandfathers with the same blood, have been deeply branded with their own water and soil, American smiles, Japanese bows, Danish-style reticence, etc., these things are part of the border, this pen will bring everyone together, trace the roots, a considerable number of people in the middle were orphans, back to the place where they were abandoned at birth, the complexity of their hearts can be imagined. To tell the truth, just because they didn't refuse, it was a great courage to come to this rally. Writers and poets, both groups of people who constantly question the world and the self, how can they have "national" feelings through a party. The blood of the "nation" is common to everyone, which is not something they can choose, but in addition to blood, everyone has their own ideas, such as people drinking water, cold and warm self-knowledge. And the organizers did not play any emotional cards, and the theme they chose was peaceful: a platform for communication and exchange. Let writers and poets from different countries, different ages and different experiences communicate and communicate with each other, let these people communicate and communicate with Korean writers and poets, and there is a layer that every writer and poet has a deep communication and exchange with their past and national identity. This meaning is small, individual, great, and far-reaching.
Ai Wei: The short story "Mr. Ono" is very long in its current work, and there is a subtle description of the city of Changchun, and the places and buildings you describe are obviously carefully selected, trying to connect with the "special history" of the city of Changchun, leading to the deep historical depths and the experiencers of history. Mr. Old Ono, the aggressor and murderer, appears through the paraphrasing of Mr. Ono(a researcher of Northeast Asian history), in which Mr. Ono does not write much ink, but is a central character in the novel. There are three times in this novel, one is the present, the second is post-war Japan, the third is Changchun in the war, the proportion is the heaviest in the present, the war is the least, in the proportion of the triple time arrangement, you are obviously more focused on the present and even the future, you try to explore in this text the past war on the present or the descendants of the war and the people who experienced the war caused the spiritual dilemma. Another impressive thing about the novel is the "historical correctness" shown in the novel, a Chinese narrative about the war, that is, the people of both countries are victims, and in such a vision, Changchun becomes Mr. Ono's "deep soul", and The old Mr. Ono firmly believes that his comrades-in-arms do not deserve to "die on a white and clean sheet", he is not worthy, and the old Mr. Ono becomes a redeemer. But what's interesting is that at the end of the novel, we see that you seem to want more, and the theme of "time tunnel" (which I call triple time) appears again, assuming that the old Mr. Ono comes from the depths of time to see his son Mr. Ono, and he has to pretend that he does not know his son. There is a deep metaphor for this, on the one hand, people will always unconsciously do not want their children (offspring) to see their "evil", on the other hand, in a larger sense, it can not but be said to reflect the actual situation, a reminder similar to the "evasion of responsibility".
Kim In-soon: This is a novel about "pain.". For some people, injuries and injuries are transient, but for another group of people, injuries and injuries are relieved, and the passage of time will not weaken the injuries and injuries, but will become stronger and stronger, and they cannot extricate themselves from it. These people are tragic, but also touching and respectful. Mr. Ono, the old, participated in the war of aggression against China and did wrong things, and the rest of his long life was immersed in shame and could not be relieved. The war has before and after the stage, these are everyone's attention, but the war also has the afterglow after the end, the gong and drum hustle and bustle have been played, the afterglow has entered the individual life, some people turn their heads and forget, some people do not know the taste of meat in March, and some people have to use the rest of their lives to digest. "Mr. Ono" was written to retelle the meaning and value of introspection, and individual sorrow and joy can also be like a drop of water refracting the roughness and destructiveness of war. In addition, this is a novel written about Changchun. This is the first time I've explicitly written a location into my novel. I have lived in Changchun for more than thirty years, and I have long been a part of this city, and I have a heart for this city, and I want to do something about the artillery fire, aggression, and destruction it has encountered.
I'm not a feminist. I'm a feminist. One word is a thousand miles away.
Ai Wei: Most of your novels involve love between men and women, "Love Poems", "Mutual", "Skylark", etc., when reading these novels, I feel that your view of love is basically pessimistic and lacks confidence. At least in the novel, you don't believe much in the specificity between men and women, on the issue of love you set up a wide zone, in your novel men naturally have this zone, men are more or less "free", they always like to treat love relationships with ambiguity, their "previous history" is relatively complicated, but I think in your novel those men are not important, what is important is the women in the novel, they are no longer as clearly defined between "love" or "desire" as women in classical novels. There is neither anna-like "singleness" like Anna Karenina, nor the self-deception of Madame Bovary, who sinks into "desire" in the fantasy of "love", in your novel, women no longer seem to need Anna-style spirituality in their treatment of love, nor do they need to create an illusory "love" like Madame Bovary, I would like to say that the behavior of these heroines of yours is often captured by the emotions that come in an instant, and the "love" and "desire" in their life experience are no longer so clearly defined. It becomes very complicated (that is, the wide area I mentioned earlier), for example, in "Each Other", Li Yafei, who was hurt by Zheng Hao, once again threw himself into the arms of her ex-husband Zheng Hao at her remarriage wedding. It looks like some sort of dizzy moment for women, but I actually think there's a deep hiding in your personal insight into women.
Kim In-soon: Nor is it true that "most novels deal with love between men and women." When I talk about my novels, people often say this about me. Every time I feel a little confused, do I write about male and female love so intently? Not really. What I want to write about is the relationship between people and the subtleties that form in the relationship. Zheng Hao and Li Yafei in "Mutual", although there is a malicious situation set up by Zheng Hao's ex-girlfriend when they are married, but after they are married, there is no positive communication and reconciliation is the key to the disintegration of their marriage. In my opinion, the "cold violence" in modern marriage is extremely terrible, a new kind of "pride and prejudice", arrogance makes people lazy to go to the root, prejudice makes people choose not to forgive. In "Mutual", everyone sees Li Yafei's extramarital affair, but few people notice the tragedy inside her marriage. In other words, we always pay attention to those who speak loudly and ignore those who are silent, and what is loaded in silence is much deeper and more tragic than the noise.
Anna Karenina and Madame Bovary are two glittering figures in the history of world literature. Tolstoy and Flaubert, two male writers, wrote about women so movingly and profoundly, it was remarkable. As you say, they are the face of "love" and "desire." Today, women's "love" and "lust" have become less intense. For some Kochi class and white-collar women, it can even be said that it is dispensable. More and more women are shifting the quality of life from the situation of dependence on men, "my life is determined by me," economic independence is the just need of women, love and desire are just foils. Economic independence allows women to live with dignity, so that they have a broader vision, and more and more social care and feedback.
Ai Wei: Your answer confirms my judgment that when you write about the women in your writing, on the surface there are so-called emotional "capture" moments, but in fact, basically they have always maintained a certain degree of rationality and elegance, and therefore your novel text is always very restrained and ambiguous, and I think ambiguity is a particularly good quality, and on the issue of moderation, it may be because the length of the short story is fundamentally different from the long novel, and the short story really needs to be restrained. But even if you don't admit that your novel is more about the relationship between men and women, then in the specific relationship between men and women, you still omit some kind of sharp problem that Anna needs to face, whether it is classified as a spiritual problem or a love problem, I think there must be a fundamental view of women in this, the author always imagines people according to his own understanding, right? In this sense, I especially like your Fountain, in which I see a wild force erupting from the emotional depths of the characters, and because of this, I feel that the characters have a particularly strong vitality. I personally feel that in your writing there is a "qualitative change", or some kind of outlier existence, which does not have the cool "petty bourgeois" mood of your previous novels (the "petty bourgeoisie" here only refers to style, and I think it is a rather charming style), but returns to the more essential and rough interior of women. In Fountain, I felt the presence of so-called "Anna" questions, and it was these "questions" that gave the text deeper power.
Kim In-soon: I grew up in a coal mine as a teenager. When I was just writing, I wrote a lot of novels set in the coal mines. But later, there were more urban themes, and more "petty bourgeoisie" were shy. (I'm not self-deprecating, I'm an objective description.) After the novels "Mutual" and "Skylark" were written, everyone seemed to be more certain about my "labeling" classification, as if my theme was in the city, that is, emotional relationship, that is, Yangchun white snow. Of course, I am not willing to be unconvinced by this classification, I want to give you a grounded gas, my ground gas is deeper than anyone, and I can receive hundreds of meters underground. This is where Fountain comes from. Although the coal mine life was in my youth, it had a far-reaching impact, and the people in the mining area all had a wild nature, a sense of righteousness, and a fierce spirit of playing with their lives. This kind of temperament is the foundation, and the love and hate between people are strong and open. Although "Fountain" is a tragedy, the tone is unusually bright, love and hate, desire, concentration and purity are very high, in contrast, other novels may have elegance, but the warm swallow is also true. But the temperament of this novel still has not been able to jump out of how far, and it may be written for a long time, and it really has a certain tone. At the end of last year, I changed "Fountain" to a small theater one-act play. Great adjustments were made to the story, but the temperament, personality and action logic of the three characters did not change, and after the performance of this play, almost everyone fell in love with Wu Aiyun, and the brightness of her body was very moving.
AI: Overall, I don't think there's any feminism in your novels. And I think you're particularly tolerant of men. The men in your novels are a powerful being, they are usually graceful and decent, life is good, cheating or empathy is of course also a regular thing, but these things that happen to men in your text are only "phenomenological", you treat them as natural, you do not complain, of course, there is no criticism, in your novel, never pursue men's moral problems, and the same is true for women, do not pursue. That's good, and I think that's what novelists should do. So, I think you're a female writer who doesn't challenge or rebel against the power relations between men and women, but only nuances the modern model of the ancient relationship between man and woman in this order. So, one time I saw you talk about being a feminist in an interview, I couldn't agree. I don't think you are. You are extremely tolerant of men in the novel. I agree with what you said earlier, you are actually a female independent, in your view, female independence is more important than anything else, and you can live well without a man. This is also the basic concept of the long "Spring Fragrance". In Chunxiang, there is indeed a certain sense of feminism, which I see as a hymn about the independent personality of women. Overall, whether it's Chunxiang or your short stories about gender relations, you're pessimistic about the tone of the relationship between men and women, and maybe it's really the pessimism that makes you tolerant.
Kim In-soon: I'm not a feminist. I'm a feminist. One word is a thousand miles away. The novel "Chun Xiang" is not a feminist novel, but a feminist novel. Or, as you say, "women's independent fiction." "Chunheung Biography" is a folk tale that has been circulating on the Korean Peninsula for more than three hundred years, when the division of male superiority and female inferiority and door division in North Korea was extremely strict, and women's lives had no dignity, let alone self. In "The Legend of Chunxiang", women should be absolutely obedient to men, have the courage to self-sacrifice and sacrifice, then in the end there will be men to redeem them and live a happy life from then on. Such content is actually the most famous folk tale on the peninsula, and there is still a beauty pageant for Miss "Haruka" in the Namwon area. I wanted to write another copy of Chunxiang, and my Chunxiang was not passed on, not for circulation, but just to prove the possibility that a woman has the ability to live a life that may not be happy on her own, but is free. The women in "Chunxiang" have no female center, on the contrary, Madame Xiang is abandoned by men, Chunxiang is a daughter born out of wedlock, Yinji is disliked by the husband's family, Xiaodan is the daughter of a criminal, these women are the "negative" crowd in the society at that time, they gather in Champs, Madame Xiang uses her wisdom to make them rich in food and clothing, free and enlightened, and achieve "negative and negative positive". But even so, Lady Xiang was worried about Haruka's future, because she knew that their good life was an accident, a floating half-day idleness stolen from the harsh social system at that time. Therefore, she deliberately arranged for Chunxiang to marry into the rich, but Chunxiang finally chose to stay in the Champs, although the magnates can cover the wind and rain, but the freedom is more precious, and after Madame Xiang's illness, she has to take on the responsibility of protecting the Champs. For women, if the problem of survival can be solved by themselves, love is just a few flowers and flowers on the cake. You are quite right, I have no praise or denigration of men, I have never erased the influence of men, but I do prefer women, I am willing to spend more thought and ink to make women sway and move.