Ye Jintian shuttled backstage in "Love in the Fallen City". Last October, after the premiere of the work at the Shanghai Grand Theatre, it was still being revised and polished. The night before the interview he had only slept for more than two hours, walking lightly and flutteringly.
Ye Jintian is in Shanghai
Outside the dressing room, 86 costumes he designed for "Love in the City" are hung on top of each other, and the skirts of the cheongsam and dresses are blown up by the blower, which is gorgeous and flowing. He introduced them one by one, one by one, and behind each one there was a story.
Poster of "Allure of Love"
The cheongsam in "Love in the Fallen City"
The "moon white cicada wing gauze cheongsam" mentioned in the novel is silky, hand-sewn, crystal clear. This cheongsam took more than a month to make, both for the figure and temperament of actor Wan Qian, and to fit the mood of the heroine Bai Liusu. Wan Qian couldn't help but ask if she could take it home and collect it after the performance. "It's really scary to be serious about making a cheongsam, and I really love and hate the cheongsam." Ye Jintian said.
Twenty years ago, Yip Kam Tim won the Academy Award for "Best Art Direction" for the movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon". 20 years later, he made his debut as a stage director, boldly blending imagery with stage. After the Shanghai premiere, "Love in the City" went to Hangzhou and Changsha, and came to Beijing from January 6 to 10 to debut at the National Centre for the Performing Arts.
TV series "Orange Red"
From "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" to "Daming Palace Words", "Orange Red", "Night Feast"... Every shirt and every frame of beauty designed by Ye Jintian adds icing on the cake to many film and television works. Following the Tokyo Olympic Games, he designed the medal dress of the Chinese sports delegation at the Beijing Winter Olympics to show the world Chinese demeanor.
After designing so many colorful costumes, why do you always wear black clothes and a black hat wherever you go?
"Always look at yourself, you can't see others." I'm a creator, not a performer, and creators should hide themselves. After saying that, he turned around and disappeared in the room full of chinese clothes.
The most interesting part is to present the beauty of "Chinese women"
Shangguan News: In "Love in the Fallen City", how do you use the qipao to create the role of white tassel?
Ye Jintian: The background of "Love in the City" is the 1940s, and for the current audience, most people may not be able to distinguish the difference between the style of the qipao in the 1930s and the 40s. At the beginning of the dance, many people are very fashionable, and the white tassel is actually a little outdated, a little bit of the 30s of the last century, a little gorgeous, but also very simple. I did a lot of subtraction, not too many tricks, the whole thing was plain. Although it is plain, the actor's body shape and dynamics are clear at a glance.
What exactly is it that attracts Fan Liuyuan with white tassels? I think it is very important that she fits Fan Liuyuan's eyes as a "real Chinese woman" and "the most beautiful in the world and will never go out of fashion". Now it seems that it is not necessarily the white tassel herself, but the less conscious style of her body, which fits Fan Liuyuan's imagination. Fan Liuyuan's imagination also triggered my imagination, what exactly does "Chinese woman" look like? What does "classical beauty" look like? The most interesting part of this creation is the opportunity to present the so-called "Chinese women".
Shangguan News: What are your requirements for Wan Qian, who plays the white tassel?
Ye Jintian: I ask Wan Qian to always be in a state of white tassels, and when she is not speaking, even if she is standing, she must be in the play. Some dialogue has no direct meaning, but emotions are suggestive, so the body reacts faster than the dialogue. You will find that there are several very important scenes that do not have dialogue later, and she wants to perform this meaning through the body.
White Tassel's personality is full of feminine tenderness, but she is forced to a crossroads, and to decide her own fate, she has to take a gamble. She also knew that Fan Liuyuan was not an easy person to deal with, which led to a very interesting conflict. We saw that she decided to go to Hong Kong, really going to gamble, turning out the old suitcase under her bed, taking out her old clothes one by one to see what she still had. In that paragraph, I think there is a dramatic point that we have created, which is quite poignant.
Shangguan News: This stage play incorporates a large number of film clips, so that the image and the stage are intertwined, why did you choose such a form of expression?
Ye Jintian: The original work is very attractive to me, it has a complex and unique atmosphere, it is difficult to perform on stage, because the distance between the actors and the audience is too far, their subtle movements and expressions are invisible, it is difficult to express the sense of atmosphere in the language of the novel. So I quickly decided to join the film part, and has been wandering in the realistic space and the inner illusory space of the characters, repeatedly adjusting, hoping to better convey the atmosphere in the text, a sense of truth and illusion.
In this part of the film, the footage I use is very similar to the documentary, I will not set the camera, I want to make the audience feel as if they have witnessed the occurrence of things, and there are many accidents in the occurrence of everything. The two men show this contingency in the first 7 minutes, they are not prepared for anything, and the yin and yang are related. I hope that this atmosphere of uncertainty, from beginning to end, allows the audience to slowly enter the inner world of two people.
Shangguan News: From novels to stage plays, where is the most difficult place to change?
Ye Jintian: The text of the novel is very beautiful, sometimes it is the text of the narrative, not the dialogue, it is the author's understanding and feelings, and even a lot of it is surreal language, written in a poetic way. If you want to use it, it will definitely become narration, but the narration does not look like the white tassel itself, so at this time, it is difficult for the narrative of the text to blend into the atmosphere of the play.
I think we're using a contrasting approach and slowly forming associations. It's not like a traditional drama that slowly guides you step by step to get to the point of meaning. I want my work to be meaningless and give the audience more room for imagination. It seems that the story of two people is actually not, it is the story of the whole world.
Shangguan News: This play is close to 4 hours, are you worried that the audience can't stick to it?
Ye Jintian: I want to make the atmosphere of that era, the sense of rhythm between people. It wasn't as fast as it is now, so they had a lot more room to imagine each other. At that time, walking home at night, I would call a car or something now, and I kept looking at my mobile phone in the car, and it was impossible for two people to walk quietly for a while.
I think this play is still a little bit distant from the current audience, so it is slow to create an atmosphere. I simplified as much of the side features of the novel as possible, and finally gave them two people enough air, expressed the pain and confusion of the white tassel more fully, and reached a level of internalization.
So you can't rush this thing, you can't make it very quick. Without the accumulation of feelings and the accumulation of time and space, it is difficult for the audience to understand the loneliness and loneliness of the white tassel waiting for this opportunity at that time. There are some things that really need to be looked at with the heart.
I'm closer to Ang Lee, and we're both very "earthy" people
Some of Ye Jintian's stage works
Shangguan News: You started out as a student of painting and photography, how did you break into the film industry?
Ye Jintian: I used to take pictures with my brother, he had an assistant who did film art direction, he knew that I could draw, so he asked me to help him make some props, and Zhang Guorong and I met at that time.
There was an open painting competition at the time, and I took two of the three gold medals. Later, director Xu Ke saw one of my paintings and came to me. I painted a girl's face, very realistic, not the kind of realism that comes out of every pore, but it seems like a real person facing you.
Later, I studied a lot of plans with Xu Ke, but none of them came true. He told me, you go to Wu Yusen first, introduce me to the crew of "The True Colors of Heroes", and thus enter the industry.
Shangguan News: When director Ang Lee asked you to do "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", it was said that he went to the rescue.
Ye Jintian: Director Ang Lee looked for a lot of people, and finally found me, when he had been studying for 9 months, and there were only two months left for me. At that time, many people recommended me to him, and one day I got a call from him asking if I would do stage, if I would do art, if I would make costumes. I said yes, but I haven't done stage in 7 years, specializing in costumes. Later, when I went to Beijing, I was originally asked to do scenes, but then I slowly did more and more.
This kind of development work was very hard, and at that time, film art was not systematic at all, unlike now, there are so many talents. An old gentleman who had worked with me for many years, a very good artist, was working with me at that time.
Movie "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon"
Shangguan News: Why does the aesthetic style of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon impress the world?
Ye Jintian: When I made Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, the landscape paintings of the Northern Song Dynasty were one of my aesthetic bases. But I removed all the colors and left only the substance. The space of all the scenes in the play is very large, which produces a very bold and ethereal feeling.
We found a very old-fashioned method, and the Hong Kong film industry was not optimistic at that time. Ang Lee seems to be talking about love, using the same old-fashioned narrative method as Huang Mei tone, which involves family ethics and sophistication, unlike the very contemporary and impactful things in Hong Kong at that time. I think I'm closer to Ang Lee, both are very "earthy" people.
But I believe that what is really good can be accepted by the world. Platforms are important, and it's key to seeing if that platform brings out your best.
Shangguan News: Later, director Li Shaohong asked you to do "Daming Palace Words", which was also an emergency. How can you accomplish a difficult task in a very short time?
TV series "Daming Palace Words"
Ye Jintian: Although the story of "Daming Palace Words" takes place in the Tang Dynasty, director Li Shaohong hopes to inject modern beauty. It was a very urgent time, and we were faced with hundreds of clothes, which had to be changed within 6 days, which was also a record. I often take on a lot of cases, and when I encounter them, I actually have a lot of reserves, whether it is Western themes or Eastern themes, as soon as I started, I had the whole system in my mind. When I was doing "Daming Palace Words", I brought the feeling of the stage to the TV, and the costumes used a lot of traditional handicrafts and had a lot of details.
Shangguan News: Later, I did a new version of "Dream of the Red Chamber" with director Li Shaohong, and the styling caused a lot of controversy at that time. Have you ever doubted yourself in this controversy?
TV Series "Dream of the Red Chamber"
Tim Ye: No. What I do is not looking forward to being accepted immediately, that's not what I want. I hope that my own things can trigger thinking, bring more possibilities, and hope that through in-depth exploration, I can leave the slowly rigid theme.
In foreign countries, like Shakespeare's plays, there are always many ways, not only one way to interpret. However, in China, how to explore the contemporaneity in the original work involves whether we have our own contemporary language. If not, done in the Western way, it's just a form of splicing, without really opening our minds and building our own system. When I was doing Dream of the Red Chamber, I was thinking about how to invent our own vocabulary and find the way we speak. A lot of things are evolving, and I believe that new language systems may slowly form.
I do the same thing every day – looking for "singularities"
Shangguan News: How was your initial aesthetic established? You once said that your mother was the "most dressed person", what kind of influence did she have on you?
Ye Jintian: At that time, materials were very scarce, and she didn't have time to dress up, but her old shirt with a purple turban on a white background was very beautiful. When we have memories of our mother, she was already middle-aged, not a great beauty. I also saw that she was very beautiful, in the photo, the hairstyle was very old-fashioned, just like the hair of the four grandmothers and Mrs. Xu in "Love in the City". It's impossible to dress like this now, but in a specific space and environment, you will feel that it is beautiful, just like these people you see in the play, their beauty is unique.
Stills from "Allure of Love"
Shangguan News: Your father loved Cantonese opera, so you are no stranger to opera since you were a child.
Ip Kam Tim: Because he acts in Macau, we often go to Macau to see plays. I was very fascinated by the things on the stage, those Hua Dan and laosheng's appearances, I felt very beautiful, very heartfelt. I would use the camera to take pictures of what I saw, and the picture lay in my hand, with a feeling of "eternity".
Shangguan News: What kind of beauty is the beauty of traditional Chinese opera?
Ye Jintian: Once I saw an old photo of Mr. Mei Lanfang, an old photo of the color, a side. At that time, I felt that this beauty seemed to be very familiar, and when I first met it, I already felt very familiar, and later I saw him playing Du Liniang, a very plain and elegant look. I wonder why this person is so beautiful, that pretty is not the beauty of ordinary girls. That face is very attractive, and at the same time with a sense of mystery and intimacy, not only the appearance, but also the integration of his acting skills and his outfit.
After reading it, I thought, why Tang Xianzu wrote "Peony Pavilion" before, it is very elegant, but it is also close to ordinary people, and Shakespeare is the same. Later, I began to study the opera face, studying the "Hall of Eternal Life", and I was fascinated. I'm interested in traditional Chinese culture because it's really in my blood, very kind, there's no doubt about it.
Shangguan News: You once boldly transformed traditional costumes, but when you made "Changsheng Hall" for Suzhou Kun Theater, you did it very traditionally, why?
Ye Jintian: Because the traditional costumes are so beautiful, I was thinking that I should be more traditional than traditional. Because the current Method of Kunqu Opera performance is not the most traditional, it incorporates things learned from the West. I consulted a copy of the Xianfeng Period "Shengping Department Opera Character Album" and designed the costumes according to the 97 paintings in it. At that time, during the SARS period, I traveled all over Suzhou, found several embroidery artists in their 60s, and worked overtime to drive out 140 sets of clothing in four months. I want them to make the most exquisite handicrafts, not to pay attention to the color, to be elegant and rhymed.
Shangguan News: After learning the most traditional Chinese visual language, you blend it with the visual language of the West, and the movie "Night Feast" seems to be such a product.
Movie "Night Feast"
Ye Jintian: In this play, I combine the aesthetics of Shakespeare with the aesthetics of the East, which is a very modern sense of classicism. In many creations, my source of inspiration is not a single one. I learned a lot of so-called visual languages, which can be artistically reconstructed to produce very rich symbols. When I first finished designing "The Night Feast", my assistant was reluctant to help me draw it, he said that it was illogical, I had to give it to another assistant, and finally made it.
After making it, it is difficult for me to explain. There is a concept in mathematics called "singularity", that is, things develop to a certain extent, and in an instant there will be an abnormal, undefined thing that you cannot explain. It sometimes explodes, creating a lot of tension, a lot of creativity. I do the same thing every day, and that's looking for "singularities."
Shangguan News: You designed the medal gowns of the Chinese sports delegation for the Tokyo Olympic Games and the Beijing Winter Olympics, how to reflect the Chinese elements?
Yip: I used a round standing collar and a disc buckle design, which is very distinct and not very complicated. The red line in the middle represents the central axis, and together with the two red lines next to it, it forms a feeling of a "medium" word, and this word gives the feeling of climbing upwards. I hope that this design will inspire athletes and make them feel proud to fight for their country.
In the design process, the biggest difficulty is that I don't know who to wear the clothes I designed, some athletes are only teenagers and very small, and some athletes are as tall as Yao Ming. It is difficult to make the same clothes suitable for people of different sizes. When I did it, I thought a lot about what Chinese body looks like, and in the end, what I want to reflect is the beauty of China and the arrogance of Chinese.
"New Orientalism" has no definition, it has been flowing
Shangguan News: You've worked with dancer Aku Ham and theatre master Robert Wilson, and so on, how have they influenced you?
Yip: For a while I was doing theatre, attending the Edinburgh Arts Festival in the UK, the Avignon Arts Festival in France, etc., and saw the latest works by many great artists from all over the world. Every time I go, I bring several of my own works with me, so people start to get to know each other.
My association with Robert Wilson was through the Shanghai International Arts Festival in China. We sat together and watched the rehearsal, and I realized that his stuff was actually very oriental. As soon as he struck, he was able to completely integrate the different cultures he had seen into the same point.
Aku Ham is a very important friend of mine, and what I am most opportunistic about him is our reflection on things, very synchronized. When he didn't know what to do, I suggested that he go back to his hometown, so we went to Bangladesh together, and we made the dance drama "DESH" ("Source"). It aroused my inner understanding of what came to be called "New Orientalism", that is, to find the most wonderful thing of my own culture from globalization.
Shangguan News: Over the past 20 years, you have been expanding your artistic field, doing contemporary art and experimental art, and one of the representative works is the virtual human Lili. Who is Lili and why did you create her?
Lili all over the world
Tim Ye: Lili is actually a non-existent person, and I have taken her all over the world, from New York, Paris, Budapest, London, Paris, the Americas, South Africa and then to Shanghai. Everywhere I went, I would use the camera to photograph her interactions with people of different skin tones. She's not real, but she's shown up in a lot of authentic locations, and she becomes a way to document our lives.
Over the past decade, I've taken about tens of thousands of photos of her. She connects a complete world, but this world will never be complete, so it also represents infinity. She is a mirror that falls into the world, and what is illuminated is what it is, and she becomes a series of all things.
Shangguan News: Are different art forms connected?
Ye Jintian: Film is different from contemporary art, different from the stage, and different from writing books. The system is different, and the operation method is different. But I pursue a state where there is no center, where everything is divergent.
I was a bad student since I was a child, because I was disobedient and had too many ideas of my own. But I studied a wide variety of things, very free and rigorous to deliberate, to wander in different fields. So I think it's important to learn less purposefully. My greatest wealth is my book collection, traveling around the world, I have been storing things that interest me in my mobile phone, and I have slowly formed my system.
When you know where the tricks are for these things, you can gain the freedom to make some changes. When I make a movie, I have to change the principle of the film, when I make a stage, I have to change the principle of the stage, and when I do contemporary art, I also want to change the principle of contemporary art. I always want to get myself into some trouble.
Shangguan News: Looking back now, how do you define the aesthetics of "New Orientalism"?
Tim Ye: Actually, there has been no definition, because it has been changing. When I first started doing "New Orientalism," I was always far removed from the oriental ontology. I go all over the world to find the origins, genres, patterns of different cultures, and only by exploring the whole world and looking back do you know what the East is. At this stage, I feel like I'm finally starting to get my hands on it. I think the most interesting thing is that "New Orientalism" is not a conventional thing, but a thing that is really flowing and evolving.
Tim Ye
Art director, costume designer, visual artist, director. He has served as the art director and costume designer of "The True Colors of Heroes", "Rouge Buckle", "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", "Daming Palace Words", "Orange Red", "Chibi", "Night Feast", "Sound of the Wind" and other film and television works, and won the "Best Art Direction" Award of the Academy Award and the "Best Costume Design" Award of the British Academy of Film with "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" in 2001.
(Intern Guo Sheng also contributed to this article)
This article was published in Liberation Daily on January 14, 2022