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Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world

Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world
Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world

April 1, 2023, Changsha. Chung Shu-ha reads from his hospital bed. Photo: Gou Haokun

At the 2022 Blade Book Awards launch ceremony, New Weekly and the Twitter Committee gave Mr. Chung Shuhe the "Annual Tribute", and the award speech read:

He is one of the most prominent publishers of the last century.

Although he was tempered in the first half of his life and only "left home halfway" to engage in book publishing at the age of 49, he accumulated a lot of money, and with his extraordinary wisdom and courage, he successively planned and published a series of large-scale books such as "Towards the World Series", "The Complete Works of Zeng Guofan" and "The Complete Essays of Zhou Zuoren", which influenced a generation of Chinese people.

In his view, "going to the world" is a common issue faced by all people in the world, and the process of going to the world is the process of human pursuit of progress, which will never end.

He is also a tireless scholar and essayist, and at the age of 92, he published the 3.2 million words of Chung Shu Ha Collection, which covers all his writings, which is a model editor and scholar.

At the age of 93, he is now trapped in the bucket room due to illness, and although his body cannot break through the confinement, he has always maintained a clear mind and a free soul.

"I was born in 1931, I'm 93 years old, I'm very old, [my identity] is a retired editor, that's who I am."

On April 1st, we visited Mr. Chung Shuhe, a publisher, in Changsha to convey to him the news that the 2022 Blade Book Award awarded him the "Tribute of the Year" award.

He said he "deserved it" and introduced himself as such.

The 2022 Blade Book Award awarded Chung Shuhe the "Annual Tribute" award for two reasons: first, "Chung Shuhe Collection" was published in December 2022, a collection of 10 volumes and more than 3.2 million words, which is a comprehensive summary of Chung Shuhe's decades of publishing and writing career; Second, the concept of "going to the world" put forward by Chung Shuhe when he edited the "Going to the World Series" in the 80s of last century is still of practical significance today.

Although the Internet has flattened the world and in many ways we have kept pace with the world, as Chung said, we still have deficiencies in world vision, world ideals and world knowledge.

Why are we still going out into the world today? To this, Chung Shuhe replied: "I think that the process of going to the world is the process of human pursuit of progress. The process never ends. ”

He is facing the whole vast world

In 2021, Chung Shu-ha suffered a stroke that caused hemiplegia.

After six months in the hospital, he went home to continue his rehabilitation, but since then he has been unable to move on his own, "I have been chained to this bed".

He even laughed at himself: "I'm a person who is mostly dead now." ”

But he always had a good view. In the sixth season of "Thirteen Invitations", talking about the ups and downs in the first half of his life, and the real life began at the age of 49, he said that compared with others, he was "quite lucky".

Talking about mobility problems this time, he once again said that he was lucky: "I have long lived to the end of my life, and I think I am lucky to be able to sit up and communicate with you." There are no regrets anymore, I have taken advantage of a lot. ”

Although physically trapped, his mind is free, and he faces the whole vast world.

In 1979, after Chung Shuhe was "rehabilitated", he joined the Hunan People's Publishing House as an editor, and immediately began to edit the "Towards the World Series".

At that time, he had not been abroad and rarely left Hunan, but through this series of books, he not only expressed the importance of "going to the world", but also imagined and created a world.

Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world

2008 Yuelu Books "Going to the World Series"

At that time, he and his colleague and friend Zhu Zheng often discussed the synchronization of China with world civilization.

Zhu Zheng prefers to solve "why this is so" first, while Chung Shuhe believes that "the fundamental problem of modern China is that it is not synchronized with the world, China is out of this orbit, and if it is synchronized with the changing world, then the problem is solved."

The problems of modern China are to be found from the source of the modernization process, that is, the late Qing Dynasty.

When the first batch of Chinese to go to the world, what they saw and felt, brought a huge impact to the Chinese people.

In Chung Shuhe's view, if these records can be collected, in the overall atmosphere of the era at the beginning of reform and opening up, it can also bring a sense of shock and freshness to the Chinese people.

Chung Shu He plans to produce 100 species. In an interview, he once talked about the selection criteria: "We don't just accept people who I think are advanced, we collect a wide range of records of the Chinese going to the world at that time. But there is one rule, the author must record his own personal experience, write his own thoughts. Those who did not go to foreign countries and sit in China to write will not be accepted. ”

In August 1980, the first "New Record of Around the Earth" of the "Towards the World Series" was published, written by Qingren Li Gui.

In 1880, Kang Youwei, then 22 years old, was influenced by this and decided to learn from the West.

After the series was published at an average rate of one per month, readers quickly became familiar with its three-masted emblem and noticed that the bow of the ship went from east to west, meaning "from east to world."

In the Collected Words with Him, Chung Shuhe explained the reason for publishing the "Towards the World Series": "Although books are ancient books, the readers are newcomers. Organizing and publishing ancient books should guide readers to look forward and face the future rather than the past. ”

Whether choosing books or writing the 10,000-character introduction to each book, Chung Shuhe has demonstrated a rare mind, boldness and modern vision.

There is one detail: a colleague advised him not to sign the introduction, because "there is no such provision".

His countermeasures were pseudonyms such as "Gu Ji Shi" (homonym for "ancient book room") and "Jin Youke" ("Chung Shu He" is taken halfway).

Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world

April 1, 2023, Changsha. Chung Shuhe's bookcase. Photo/Bloomberg

"My cup is small, but I drink from my cup"

In an interview with Thirteen Invitations, Chung said: "I rarely say what others have said, and I don't say what others want me to say. I don't have the courage or the possibility to say everything I want to say, but I will never say a word that I don't want to say. ”

In the program, he also talked about the "talent, learning, and knowledge" of intellectuals: "It is talent, learning is learning, and knowledge is insight." ”

The three cannot be separated, but they can be focused on individuals and can be focused.

For example, teachers and scholars must "understand more", and "learning" is the first thing for these people.

Writers and poets don't have to know so much, and bad math and lack of understanding of physics do not prevent them from writing good articles.

As for editors and journalists, the most important quality is insight - "journalism and publishing are not science, and I don't think that what editing can be put forward, this is too high a requirement." It is a profession, does not need scholars, does not need great talents, the editor prints his books well, reporters interview well, do a good report, which in society, he is a very successful person. ”

Chung Shuhe's self-assessment was 60 points for "talent", 60 or 70 points for "learning", and 70 or 80 points for "knowledge".

But no matter what, as an intellectual, you always have to do your duty to mankind and society.

"Blue pen amuses himself, Zhu Bi compiles text", Chung Shuhe believes that a good editor should be able to edit and write.

That's what he did.

For example, he wrote about the "Nian Lou" where he lived - "Nian is twenty, and Nian Lou is the twentieth floor where I live." ”

Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world

2018 Jiangsu Phoenix Literature and Art Publishing House "Essays on Nian Lou"

Friends asked him if the name "Nian Lou" was named in honor of someone or something.

He first replied "no", but after thinking about it, he used the word "nian" because it is more interesting than "twenty".

Immediately, he quoted scriptures and explained the meaning of "reading" one by one.

He humbly said that the articles he wrote were "very little pure literary content, and they were not of a very high standard", so they "cannot be said to be writers".

He defines himself as "editor Chung Shuhe".

When Chung Shuhe compiled the "Going to the World Series", he appreciated "Guo Songtao's Diary" the most.

In his view, Guo Songtao was a "lonely forerunner," and he respected Guo because he was able to doubt his own traditions, the culture that trained him to become a senior scholar, and was willing to pay the price for this skepticism and the advance of his thinking.

This can also be said to be Chung Shuhe's life pursuit.

Therefore, he liked the famous quote of the French poet Muse: "My cup is small, but I drink water from my cup." ”

His explanation was: "That is, my head is not very smart, but I think with my head. ”

This sentence is printed on the back page of the title page of each volume of the "Chung Shu Heji" and on the library ticket.

Of course, he also knows that "it is not easy to insist on drinking only from your own cup."

Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world

Changsha, 18 October 1997. Chung Shu He. /Visual China

"Whether you want it or not, you can only go out into the world"

In July 1980, Chung Shuhe wrote in the foreword to the "Toward the World Series": "Today's China has gradually appeared in the east of the world with a modern appearance. However, the progress of the world is getting faster and faster, and many aspects of China's economy and culture still need to be continuously developed and improved; This requires continuing to open our eyes to the world. ”

The proposition of "going global" will remain important even after entering the 21st century.

In 2013, Chung reiterated in his preface to the "Going to the World Series" (sequel): "When modern people go to the world, they must first make themselves people who can accept global civilization, have world knowledge, have world vision, and have world ideals. ”

Although people now use smartphones and ride on Boeing planes, in some aspects of world vision, world ideals and even world knowledge, he himself (because he dares not call "us") and Guo Songtao, Huang Zunxian and others more than a century ago, "the gap is really not small", so "the journey to the world is far from over, and it is still difficult to proceed."

In this interview, Chung Shuhe talked about "going to the world" from the perspective of the history of human civilization.

In his view, the development of human civilization is a process of going to the world: Exodus is going to the world; Africans, the ancestors of our humanity, came out of Africa to go to the world; Magellan's great discovery was also to the world.

"It is precisely if people want to live a better life, they need a wide world, they need communication and cooperation with the outside world, and they must leave their original place of residence and go to a wider world." The history of human civilization is the history of going global. ”

Chung pointed out that in comparison, Chinese step to the world is more difficult.

Traditional Chinese culture has a long history and is self-contained, and conservatism is born from this.

"Those who have nothing will not be conservative, those who have things will be conservative. It's very powerful, so you don't need to learn anything from outside. ”

Therefore, traditional Chinese culture is inward-looking, not outward-looking – facing the sea and facing the world.

In Chinese history, the end of the world has always been the most inhospitable place, and Zheng He went to the West in the Ming Dynasty, not consciously opening up to the outside world, but in search of Emperor Jianwen.

In the Qing Dynasty, there was even "no piece of sail to go to sea".

In Chung Shuha's view, it takes generations for Chinese to go global.

"Man cannot but go to the world, and he must go to the world. Whether you want it or not, you can only go out into the world. You can't get out of this world. That's my idea of the world. ”

Interview with Chung Shuhe: I don't have any regrets, please continue to go to the world

Source: "Thirteen Invitations"

"In a short period of time, if we wish, we can use the light to illuminate the darkness around us. Just as in the ancient torch walk, which seemed to Lucretius to be the symbol of all life, we carry the torch in our hands and run along the road, and soon someone will come from behind and catch up with us, and all our skills will pass the light fixed torch in his hand, and we ourselves will disappear into the darkness. This passage comes from Zhou Zuoren's "Book of Rainy Days", and Chung Shuhe, who edited the "Complete Essays of Zhou Zuoren", must be very familiar.

Rather than being called a "legend" in the cultural world, he may prefer to work quietly as a torchbearer as Zhou Zuoren wrote, illuminating the way for the future for young people.

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