First, good stories have their own "taste"
Wang Hailin: Welcome to "Four Tastes of Poison Uncle". Today our old friend Director Liu Jiang came as a guest.
Liu Jiang: Hello.
Wang Hailin: Hello, there was such a phenomenon at that time, that is, after "Latent", everyone thought that there was nothing to shoot in the spy war scene, until "Before dawn", once again set off a new creative peak and trend. Because there was a period of time in the middle of the spy war drama is really less, stop, right? What were you doing before Before Dawn?
Liu Jiang: I am filming "The Beautiful Age of Daughter-in-Law".
Wang Hailin: Change to a completely different theme.
Liu Jiang: Yes, when everyone said you were going to continue to shoot "Belle Epoque 2", I didn't want to shoot. It was because I saw a book, "Before Dawn", which was called "Pre-Dawn Moments".
Wang Hailin: Hmm.
Liu Jiang: At that time, there were only seven episodes of the script, and I liked the taste very much, and it was written by my brother in the film school (screenwriter Huang Ke). I said I want to shoot this, he also said "Lurking" that mountain you can't get over, why did you suffer this crime, how good you shot "Daughter-in-law", that reflection is very good or something. I said, I'm not talking about who to compare, because I have some ideas that I want to realize, which is something unique to "Before Dawn", so I still shoot it, and after shooting, everyone looks at it, and alas, it is really different.
Wang Hailin: Right.
Liu Jiang: It's really different from that.
Wang Hailin: I made this scene. You've watched seven episodes of the script, what's the most appealing to you? Episodic?
Liu Jiang: Taste.
Wang Hailin: Taste.
Liu Jiang: The really advanced story is that taste, to be honest, it is that spy flavor, making you feel that it is the kind you want. For example, in fact, many martial arts novels also have a taste, but I always think that everyone has not made it, it has to be a little chivalrous, I think "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" is still a bit. Spy drama is also like this, its most important thing is this taste, but that taste is actually not easy to come out, just "Before Dawn" It has this taste, has this spy flavor. There is also that kind of brilliant heroism, very burning, especially burning, and many of the bridge sections in it are very burning.
Liu Jiang: Mainly these points.
Wang Hailin: Yes, if "Latent" is cold, then "Before Dawn" is hot.
Liu Jiang: That's right.
Wang Hailin: It's more obvious.
Liu Jiang: Hmm.
Wang Hailin: I know that there are some in the works of July 1 this time.
Liu Jiang: "Glory and Dreams".
Wang Hailin: Yes, "Glory and Dreams" has a little bit of espionage elements, but you haven't made it for many years.
Liu Jiang: Right. There are various reasons, there are market reasons, there are also reasons for their own creative stage, and there are also reasons that in the past few years, they have not been so urgent, but now I especially want to shoot spy war scenes. To be honest, it is particularly funny, when the director of the station held a meeting, what was said at the meeting was that we all want to shoot such a warm realism as "The Belle Epoque of the Daughter-in-Law". But privately, many male directors have told me that I like "Before the Dawn", and also said that I have not fast-forwarded two plays, one is "Towards the Republic" and the other is "Before the Dawn", and it is actually very encouraging to hear this kind of words, and you will feel that this kind of effort is rewarded. So I've been thinking and preparing how to find the right opportunity to shoot a decent thing.
Wang Hailin: But it seems that the main scene of our spy war is basically selected in Shanghai, right? Of course, it is also a spy capital.
Liu Jiang: Spy Capital, yes.
Wang Hailin: Especially during the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, it had an isolated island period, which was quite special, and there was also a concession.
Liu Jiang: Yes, because this place in Shanghai, the secret agents are good at fishing in the muddy waters, it is good to protect themselves there, it also has a lot of information, all kinds of parties, the international community, is also an intelligence center, and it is easy to have stories.
Wang Hailin: So I really can't blame us creators, because of the objective facts, that stage is there.
Liu Jiang: Right.
Wang Hailin: You said that you almost meant it when you changed to Tianjin.
Liu Jiang: I don't think it's really important, I think sometimes how to say it is more important than what to say. It's not that many people have filmed this story, so you can't continue to shoot, I think the important thing is to see how you tell this story.
Liu Jiang: In terms of aesthetics and techniques, there will be great differences in all aspects. The same thing, different people shoot, different people say, it will be very different.
Two
"Authentic" is the best aesthetic style
Wang Hailin: Have you noticed that recently there has been a change in our public opinion, especially for the Republic of China drama, saying that the costumes and props in it are too well dressed and the days are too good. Of course, there are realistic themes, and recently there is a play that Chen Yu came here to do, and everyone said that the drama was so good.
Liu Jiang: You can't see the poor, right?
Wang Hailin: I can't see the poor, so some people say that the underground party in the Republic of China drama is also too good? So in terms of the presentation of aesthetic style, should it be adjusted now? What do you think?
Liu Jiang: I don't think we are talking about adjusting this, but we still have to have evidence.
Wang Hailin: Yes.
Liu Jiang: What it was like at that time, we can find out the image data, find out all kinds of references, books, all kinds of information for you to find out an image that is closest to the texture of the time.
Wang Hailin: I think the problem may be that some works are too single in their presentation. At that time, there were also the most fashionable and extravagant, but also the poorest and most broken. If this richness does not come out, and only shows the most fashionable and bizarre side, the audience will feel unreal.
Liu Jiang: Maybe I didn't make the texture at that time.
Wang Hailin: I didn't make it.
Wang Hailin: It's just overhead, a little suspended.
Liu Jiang: Yes, it may have some of them that are completely based on modern aesthetics.
Wang Hailin: Once our director asked the art department that all the interior scenes must be floor-to-ceiling windows, because the light is good.
Liu Jiang: Not necessarily, in fact, you can shoot that effect without floor-to-ceiling windows, is it nothing more than highlighting? In fact, different ways can be done.
Wang Hailin: Another one may also have something to do with your type of creation, you look at "The Old Tavern", it can't ask you for this floor-to-ceiling window, right?
Liu Jiang: Yes, but I can also take the picture of "The Old Tavern" beautifully, and I can also do it, of course, this is beautiful, it is not the kind of simple fashion that is called drifting not beautiful, but aesthetically beautiful.
Liu Jiang: We are saying that our own aesthetic, such as Qiu Ju dressed like that, she is beautiful, not that we have to dress like a Korean girl to be beautiful, this is an ignorant beauty.
Liu Jiang: We want the beauty of drama, we want aesthetics, and we must truly create artistic beauty. In fact, if you look at the newly appointed Minister Zhu Yonglei of the State Administration of Radio, Film and Television, when I was filming "Glory and Dreams", he went to the group several times and repeatedly demanded realism and truth. So you see me filming that war, everybody is.
Liu Jiang: Like Huang Xiaoming, he first played two rolls on the ground on the spot, really, he said that playing a few rolls is more natural than painting, the face is black, and then play a few rolls and start acting. If you say that they are beautiful, it is certainly not suitable for me, but it is the beauty of art.
Wang Hailin: Yes.
Liu Jiang: So, this is a professional realism requirement.
Wang Hailin: Yes, if you think the spy war drama is, what aspects do you think you should focus on making some breakthroughs in the next stage? Now these creations, many viewers have expressed that they are not very satisfied.
Liu Jiang: I tell you this, the dissatisfaction with it is a basic professional dissatisfaction, the same thing, you let me shoot, the effect may be different. If you pass some basic elements, it will be different, such as realism, that is, the characters are solid, the plot is reasonable, and these are in line with the historical texture. You don't violate chemistry or challenge chemistry.
Wang Hailin: Earth attraction.
Liu Jiang: Yes, the matter of attraction, you don't move away, take a brick and throw it, hack it to death, do you believe it yourself? The kind of martial finger who is used to shooting legendary dramas, eight feet away, snaps a brick and hacks to death. I said don't play this with me. So shoot realistic subjects, as long as there are no such things.
Wang Hailin: It will be much better.
Liu Jiang: Yes, this is indeed one of the creators.
Wang Hailin: First solve the problem of common sense.
Liu Jiang: The problem of aesthetics, I think one is aesthetics, one is common sense, it is a basic literacy problem, you solve this problem, every unreasonable place you fill it in, dig up the thunder, it will be different. Immediately this one is all different, really. Just a good spy drama, not how bizarre the plot is, it's not here. For example, one of the Korean movies that made me lose sleep at the time was "Memories of Killing". Before watching Memories of Killing, I used to be scornful of Korean movies, and I always felt that there was something wrong with the aesthetics of Koreans.
Liu Jiang: As a result, I watched "Memories of Killing", and I was shocked that I didn't sleep all night, to that extent. That is to say, other directors can make it like this.
Liu Jiang: Great. It's not how bizarre the plot is, it's the shaping of the characters, the history, the real and interesting grasp of the details. To be honest, it's not something that can be said in a sentence or two.
Liu Jiang: It's not a recipe, you say you match, ding, you match a soup, and then drink it, it's not this thing.
Liu Jiang: That's it.
Wang Hailin: It's not surprising, this is the top level, people later made "Parasite" and won the Oscar.
Liu Jiang: He didn't make "Monster of the Han River" yet, it was a long time ago. Memories of Killing is his second film, right?
Wang Hailin: It seems to be.
Liu Jiang: Director Bong Joon-ho made very little, and the first one was a child's business. The third part is "Mother", right? Later, it was "The Monster of the Han River". I said that this director must be the best director in Korea, and sure enough, it was.
Wang Hailin: Sure enough.
Liu Jiang: Sure enough, make a movie like "Parasite".
Liu Jiang: It's really powerful.
Three
See "people" in works of art
Liu Jiang: So the crime theme, it is not only about the plot, in fact, there are many things more complicated than its plot.
Liu Jiang: Why is "Memories of Killing" advanced? It is high-level in aesthetics. I think the high level is in aesthetics, in the shaping of characters.
Liu Jiang: In terms of the vividness and depth of the characters, this is his most powerful point, something much more exciting than the crime genre.
Liu Jiang: If you don't believe it, you feel that it is not like this, so I think the most important thing is aesthetics.
Wang Hailin: Yes. So do you have any direction for this next creation? What scenes to shoot?
Liu Jiang: Spy war.
Wang Hailin: Is this it?
Liu Jiang: It's really a spy war.
Wang Hailin: Really?
Liu Jiang: I really want to break through again.
Liu Jiang: Try to see if you can shoot more textured, more textured than "Before Dawn".
Wang Hailin: Yes, in fact, you mentioned some basic questions, because we recently had a play, and it was about to start. It's similar to espionage.
Liu Jiang: Oh.
Wang Hailin: Because we found that the influence of the big history on the specific people at that time was very large, many previous creations, this is not clear, such as coins, during the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression every other year and a half the coins used are not the same, the prices are not the same, the way of life is not the same, its problems in all aspects, complex political changes.
Liu Jiang: If you can turn this into a dramatic element, then you are a cow.
Wang Hailin: Yeah.
Liu Jiang: But it's hard.
Wang Hailin: So we often ignore these things when we create.
Liu Jiang: Yes, because you ask for its drama, many things cannot reach such a fine level.
Wang Hailin: Actually, yes, in fact, the more we study the data, the more we will find that if you say that in Shanghai, for example, in 1940, this thing could not happen, so often when we study history, we will have a lot of creations.
Liu Jiang: Well, this is authentic, this is great, yes.
Wang Hailin: That is to say, what is the state of the isolated island period, before the isolated island, after the isolated island, what is the state after the Japanese army enters this concession? It's completely different, the coins are different, and this is the party.
Liu Jiang: Before the War of Resistance Against Japan, the military command did not kill people, that is, to collect intelligence, and later after there were many traitors, Chiang Kai-shek gave him orders to start killing people, but a bunch of people who had never killed people went to kill people. You're going to get this kind of thing out, and that's different. Then your texture, this impact, I read a lot of that kind of information at that time, when I was shooting "Before Dawn", I wanted to dig deep into the texture on the basis of the script, how to approach the truth of history. I read a lot of books, including one plot, which I stole from a book, because this military commander and the central government never awarded the medal. At that time, Dai Kasa wanted to be the commander of the Navy, and when the commander of the US Navy came, he wanted to appear majestically, bought some medals on the stall, and went to see the commander of the Navy, and I put this plot in this "Before dawn", and this small plot still fits well. How to say it? It is necessary to break this habitual thinking, this conditioned reflex thing. You see at that time, shen drunk, the rank of major general, when he first killed people, he was a polite and personable literati, and after killing people for the first time, he did not ease up for a month, and his conscience could not stand it at all. He killed people with a poison pen.
Wang Hailin: A stick of lamb kebabs.
Liu Jiang: No, pen, poison pen.
Wang Hailin: Poisoned.
Liu Jiang: They have a special agency, and a poison can be fatal. At that time, in that month, Dai Kasa saw a decadent young man who had lost his soul and lost his soul. Later, after he slowly became proficient, he became numb.
Wang Hailin: Later, I went to work, I put on makeup every day, and once I met my mother on the street, he was wearing sunglasses and a trench coat, and his mother said hey, this is not my son, and he scolded you an old lady to get away.
Liu Jiang: I am on a mission.
Wang Hailin: He is on a mission.
Liu Jiang: Oh, this is fun.
Wang Hailin: Wearing sunglasses and a trench coat, he was recognized by his mother.
Liu Jiang: Is it?
Wang Hailin: When I got home, his mother said, Hey, I saw a person on the street today who resembles you. I think it's all interesting.
Liu Jiang: This is fantastic. Including that he was responsible for stepping on the point, monitoring a traitor, he rented a house opposite the traitor's mansion, rode a small broken bicycle every day, this brother left, he rode a bicycle for a while, and he tracked his time and place. After it was over, when it was time to agree, a black car appeared on the street, and he said that the action group was about to act, and he watched the bustle and sneaked there. As a result, the traitor said goodbye to his own family or something, very warm, and these people rushed out and shot a few shots to kill people. As a result, after shooting the grandson, he was in the concession, the French concession, and ran in the opposite direction.
Liu Jiang: These two people ran to the car, panicked, did not choose the road, did not kill anyone, you know this gang of people, after killing people, run, as soon as the alarm bell rings, as soon as they see it is not right, they run back. But the car has begun to start, can not catch up, looking at it, it looks back and shoots him to death, panic like this, the audience sees a human tragicomedy. This is also the historical texture inside it.
Liu Jiang: You saw people inside. Espionage, it's not a concept, it's people. So we always have to see people in the works of art, such works of art will be full of charm, why "The Godfather 1".
Four
"Popular fiction" is a close relative of the film
Liu Jiang: I think after "Godfather 1", the taste of "Godfather 2 and 3" has changed. Why is "The Godfather 1" so high in our minds? It is that its aesthetic is very advanced, it is very subtle. Art is higher than life, but it flies not too high, a little higher. At that time, a group of people in the New York gang looked at it and said, what is Mario Puzo, is there one person inside us, he knows our lives too well, it is unbelievable. I think this kind of thing it's a very advanced one.
Wang Hailin: Yes, because he went to the producer, and the producer bought his novel without reading the script, and asked him why do you sell it? He said I was short of money. Why are you short of money? He said I bet money. What are you betting on? What bet do you play? He said I bet on something, he said this I also play this. Out of sympathy for one gambler for another, the producer paid him $5,000 and put it in a drawer without looking at it. Later, the director said that he owed someone else a favor, saying that you can either shoot one, put it in the drawer, or shoot this, and it turned out.
Liu Jiang: What is the result of him? Mario Puzo went on vacation.
Liu Jiang: I went skiing in Europe on vacation, and when I came back, I completely changed, and the royalties of this novel are enough for you to eat for a lifetime.
Wang Hailin: Right. Coppola, too, always wanted to do art.
Wang Hailin: As soon as the art film failed, he said, shoot another "Godfather 2", after shooting, I feel that I don't like to shoot this thing, and then I went to shoot what he wanted to shoot, and failed to shoot another "Godfather 3".
Liu Jiang: In fact, the best thing he did was that he was an American intellectual.
Liu Jiang: He is the way of "The Book of Modern Revelation", that is, full of speculation and this kind of thing, and he thinks that this "Godfather" is too popular.
Liu Jiang: It is precisely the film that is closely related to the popular novel.
Liu Jiang: The more complex you are, the stronger the literary, the more difficult it is to make it advanced, in terms of images, it is difficult to become advanced in aesthetics. In fact, the more advanced the literature, the more difficult it is for cinema.
Liu Jiang: He is the best example of this.
Wang Hailin: The films that really take a lot of effort are average.
Wang Hailin: The films that pay off the debts are all filmed very well, and Wong Kar-wai also made "East becomes West" to pay off debts. The previous work lost money, in order to repay the money to make another one, the result of "East into West" earned. Sometimes our creations are like this, interesting, unintentional willows.
Liu Jiang: That's right, so sometimes you can't be too utilitarian, you don't know which cloud is raining, or you have to follow the rules of creation, the principles of creation.
Wang Hailin: I'm glad we talked so much today, and I hope to see Director Liu's new spy drama as soon as possible.
Liu Jiang: I hope we can cooperate.
Wang Hailin: I hope to cooperate, right.