From the various monsters with greed and hatred in "Journey to the West" to the illusory realm of "Snow Illumination qiong window jade palace" in "Dream of the Red Chamber", there are always demons, ghosts, gods, Buddhas, immortals and saints in literary and artistic works. These monsters often have their own personalities, some are even amiable and respectable, and the solemn people occasionally avoid eating men and women, and ordinary hearts.
For thousands of years, various immortals and monsters have woven a subtle world of love and fun for us.
The surging question invited young writer Xu Songzan to talk about the stories of gods and monsters in ancient and modern China and abroad.
"Gods" and "Immortals"
@Bunny Rabbit: Where do our gods come from? How long does it usually take to be called a deity?
Xu Songzan: The sources of "gods" in Chinese culture are diverse and varied, and there are roughly six sources.
The first category is the gods of the ancient mythological period, the creator gods, the ancestors of mankind, etc., mostly in the form of legends and myths, such as Pangu, Nuwa, Zhu Rong, Qu father, Cangjie, Fuxi and so on.
The second category is the ancient gods recorded in the "Classic of Mountains and Seas", many mountain gods and water gods.
The third category is the gods developed by the Confucian and Taoist system, of which Taoism is the most numerous, from Yuan Shi Tianzun and the Queen Mother of the West to Lü Dongbin, He Xiangu, etc., as well as various gods recorded in legendary novels such as "List of Fengshen Gods". In addition, there are some deified figures, such as Lao Tzu, Liezi, Zhang Tianshi, Ge Hong, and so on. Buddhism's entry into China also brought with it various deities such as Buddha, Bodhisattva, and even Nezha.
The fourth category is the various gods in folk beliefs, such as vesta gods, door gods and even toilet gods.
Grandpa Stove and Grandma Stove King
The fifth category is people who are deified national heroes or who have made significant contributions to the common people, such as Mazu, Guan Gong, and Lady Linshui. The sixth category is the gods in Zhiwei novels and demon novels, such as Sun Wukong and so on. As for the time to become a god, it is also varied and cannot be generalized. Guan Yu was still a man in the Three Kingdoms, and in the Song Dynasty began to be deified, the common people began to worship, and by the Ming Dynasty, he was posthumously named "Guan Emperor", and the deification status reached its peak. Lin Moniang was only commemorated in the Southern Fujian region in the Song Dynasty, and was revered by the Putian people as "Mazu", and after a series of canonizations from the Yuan Dynasty to the Qing Dynasty, it evolved from "Lady Linghui" and "Tianfei" to "Tianhou", and gradually deified, during which it lasted for a thousand years.
@Bear: Why do we usually say "immortal"? Since it is "god", why add "immortal"?
Xu Song praised: "God" and "immortal" are actually two different concepts in two contexts, but they are often confused in daily communication, just as people often confuse "demons", "ghosts", "demons" and so on.
The biggest difference between "god" and "immortal" is that "god" generally refers to the original founding gods (Pangu, Nüwa, Zhu Rong, Gonggong), natural gods (mountain gods, water gods, sea gods), and heroes who have made major contributions are canonized as gods (Guan Di, Mazu) after their deaths, while "immortals" is a Taoist concept, which refers to the realm of immortality (old and immortal) after a set of self-cultivation techniques or absorption of heaven and earth aura, including heavenly immortals, earth immortals, human immortals, ghost immortals, etc. There are even some people with special qualities who are also called immortals, such as poetry immortals, wine immortals...
People say "immortal" may also be out of habit, depending on what the specific direction is.
"Goblins" and "Yokai"
@ It's still difficult to change a name: "What is the difference between a goblin" and a "yokai"? Why is "fox spirit" associated with "seduction"?
Xu Songzan: The two concepts of "yokai" and "goblin" are different, and the range of yokai is wider than that of goblins, although they are monsters that evolved from animals and plants, but yokai can refer to goblins and can also refer to strange phenomena. Goblins, on the other hand, refer to monsters that have undergone a set of "cultivation" techniques and processes, and can often transform into adult appearances and confuse people. Yokai are not necessarily, many yokai's appearance is easy to be recognized, goblins are not easy to be recognized, need to look at the demon mirror, spells and other auxiliary technologies, in order to make it appear in its original form, so the impact on human beings and daily order will be greater.
As for why "fox essence" is associated with "seduction", "fox essence" is a long-term cultural imagination, which has appeared in the pre-Qin period, and can be traced back to the ancient shamanic culture, and there are still remnants in the northeast region. But the glamorization, moralization, or interpretation of the fox as a bad image of seducing people, is after the Tang Dynasty, especially the Song Dynasty. For example, Zhu Xi has a negative evaluation of the fox, which also reflects the establishment of the ritual order of the Song Dynasty from the side, which is far better than the previous dynasties. Coupled with the interpretation of Zhiwei novels, this image was basically established in the later Ming and Qing dynasties, until today.
As for why foxes were chosen instead of other animals such as dogs, cats, chickens, and ducks as literary figures. I personally believe that the first may be related to the appearance of foxes, after all, the image is more charming and mysterious, the sound is like a child, more cute than other domestic animals, and has a more literary foundation. Second, because foxes will steal domestic animals raised by people and livestock, move uncertainly, destroy family income and living materials, people are full of resentment against it, and they want to use fox themes when making up stories. The third may be related to folklore such as fox fairy worship that has been circulating for a long time. Of course, there are other explanations, but I will not give them examples.
The jade-faced fox in the old version of Journey to the West
@o Susie O: The origin of the white snake image in "The Legend of the White Snake", can you nag?
Xu Songzan: The source of the story of "The Legend of the White Snake" originated from the story of the marriage of people and snakes in the Six Dynasties Zhiwei novel, developed in the Tang and Song dynasties, and laid down in the Ming and Qing dynasties. There are many theories, some of which are the Luoyang Giant Snake Incident in the Tang Dynasty, the White Snake Incident at Jinshan Temple in Zhenjiang, and even scholars believe that it originated from the fusion of Indian mythology (the Giant Snake Stirring Milk Sea) and Chinese folklore. Judging from the textual records, the Tang Dynasty's "Bo Yizhi", "Taiping Guangji", and the Southern Song Dynasty's "Qingping Shantang Dialect Book" in the "Three Pagodas of the West Lake" all have similar plots, the protagonist's names are different, but the basic plot is the snake woman seducing men. The version of the story of Bai Niangzi, XiaoQing and Xu Xian in our current public film and television is mainly from the twenty-eighth volume of Feng Menglong's "Cautionary Tales" at the end of the Ming Dynasty, "White Niangzi Yongzhen Leifeng Pagoda".
Gods and monsters at home and abroad
@Qiao Xiaozhen: Can you briefly summarize the similarities and differences between the stories of gods and monsters in the East and west, China and Japan? In your research, what do you think is the reason for this disagreement? What are some of your own favorite stories?
Xu Songzan: This question is very grand, you can write N research monographs, there are countless scholars to study, I can only talk about it briefly and superficially here, it can be divided into the comparison between China and the West, China and Japan's gods and monster stories, but there are still countless dimensions and angles of comparison, you can compare their world view, way of thinking, the way of cognition of nature, metaphors and symbols, ethical orientation, time and space view and even the description of animals and plants, the grasp of human psychology... This can only be said very briefly.
The similarities between these are derived from people's cultural cognition of human ins and outs, natural phenomena, life phenomena, and unknown worlds, which are used to explain and depict the world before and after death, this mythological culture and nether culture constitute the unique culture of each nation, and countless literary and artistic masterpieces have been born, China has "Journey to the West", "Liaozhai Zhiyi", Japan has "Ancient Events", Youkai science and even "Spirited Away", and the West has Greek mythology and even "Lord of the Rings" and "Harry Potter", all of which are fine works.
As for the differences, for the time being, I would like to briefly say three points:
First, comparing the stories of the gods in China and the West (Greece, Rome and Northern Europe), except for a few creation gods (Pangu, Nuwa, Fuxi, etc.) who are original gods, most of the other gods are evolved from people (into gods or canonized), like Buddha, Lao Tzu, etc. came from becoming Buddhas by becoming Buddhas, like Mazu, Guandi, etc. are gods who have made great contributions to the common people and canonized by the imperial court. In contrast, in the West, the gods and the human race are clearly distinguished, and most of the gods are in the original state. Secondly, most of the Chinese gods have a strong ethical and moral orientation, mythological stories also emphasize the gods' contributions and blessings to the nation, the country and the common people, while the Western gods are not necessarily, Greek mythology is full of ethical paradoxes, and even killing fathers, killing mothers, and fighting, emphasizing individual heroism and life paradoxes. In China, on the contrary, the gods and immortals worshipped by the common people are almost all morally holy and cannot have ethical flaws (the satire of the gods and immortals in the mythical novels is another story).
Greek mythological story murals painted by Tiepolo
Second, comparing the yokai stories of China and the West (Greece, Rome and Northern Europe), both of which have a "animistic" cultural background behind them, but most of the Chinese yokai refer to the ghosts of the wronged souls, or the animals and plants in nature that have been "cultivated" and illusioned, most of which are unfavorable to human or human order, and need to be recovered or restored to normal order through specific procedures of the Buddha or Tao, such as Zhongyuan Pudu, transcendental rituals, and mirrors. Most of the sources of Western monsters are natural "spirits", fallen angels or dwarfed ancient gods, and the collective moral orientation is not as strong as in China.
Third, comparing the stories of gods and monsters in China and Japan, many of Japan's gods and monsters originated from China's "Classic of Mountains and Seas", yin and yang studies, and Zhiwei culture, but after integration with Japan's native culture, they developed Japanese characteristics. For example, Chinese monsters generally contain both ghosts and animals and plants that have been cultivated into essences, and people are afraid of their emotions. However, japan's "yokai" is referred to in a wide range, and it is a god after the decline (According to Kunio Yanagida), and in addition to the gods, it can be included in the broad sense of yokai, and people will respect it in addition to fear. In the Japanese Hundred Ghosts Nocturnal Walk, there is no shortage of cute and harmless yokai. In addition, the "ghost" Chinese used may be an ancestor (a person dies as a ghost), or it may refer to an invisible ghost, but the "ghost" in the Japanese context is more like, more like the appearance of the Buddhist Luosha or ghost pawn.
Archaeology of the Gods, by Xu Songzan, Nanjing University Press, October 2021.
What else do you want to know about Chinese and foreign gods and ghosts? Welcome to ask questions, or leave a message to discuss together!