The North Film Festival in April is about to kick off vigorously. But for many fans, the most surprising moment has already arrived. On March 21, Mr. Tatsuya Nakayo, an 89-year-old Japanese performing artist with more than 70 years of acting career, had a fiery exchange with Chinese film fans at the Beijing Film Archive (for related reports, see the Article on the WeChat public account of People's China on March 25). On the morning of March 22, before departing for Shanghai, Mr. Tatsuya Zhong spent another hour to accept a joint interview with People's China and Beijing Evening News at his hotel. This great actor, who witnessed the heyday of Japanese film films, told his view of art, life and history from the three dimensions of stage performance, film career and Sino-Japanese cultural exchanges. Today, we will sort out this in-depth interview and share with the readers again the magnificent acting life of Mr. Tatsuya Nakadai.
Wang Zhongyi, editor-in-chief of People's China Magazine (2nd from right), and Sun Xiaoning, a reporter from Beijing Evening News (1st from right), interviewed Zhongdai Daya
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——Your arrival has made Chinese filmmakers, including ordinary audiences, very excited, and I can see that you are also very excited and very happy. As far as we know, Mr. Nakadai first became acquainted with China in 1977 and came to China five times. First of all, what are your impressions of visiting China?
Tatsuya Nakayo (hereinafter Tsuyō): In 1977, I came to China with a delegation of Japanese films. Beijing is a beautiful city that shocked me deeply. The leader of the group is director Keisuke Kinoshita, and the director of "Cut belly" and "The Condition of Man" Masaki Kobayashi is also in our group. Later, I came to China again to shoot "Children of the Earth". "Children of the Earth" is a Japanese-Chinese co-production OF DRAMA, during which the crew of the two countries became good friends with each other. There was a Chinese worker whose father was killed by that battle. Hearing what had happened to him, I said to him, "I'm really sorry, there must be no more war between Japan and China." He listened to me and said, "Yes, there must be no more war." History is history, and we must go beyond history to face the future. "I was very impressed by this. I am 86 years old this year, and several experiences in China are worth remembering.
── I heard that you have traveled to China along the Silk Road?
Tatsuya Nakayo (first from left) and Masaki Kobayashi
Nakashiro: Yes. I once went to Urumqi on the Silk Road, and it was a very happy trip. When it comes to the Silk Road, the Japanese are probably most familiar with Dunhuang. Inoue's novel Dunhuang was well received in Japan. Director Masaki Kobayashi actually very much wants to make this work into a movie, and he tries his best to achieve this long-cherished wish, but finally because the conditions are not available, he regrets that he failed to achieve his wish. I think if Director Kobayashi had the opportunity to shoot Dunhuang, it would be a very good movie.
—— There is a very delicate bond between the three actors in "Children of the Earth". The three actors are You, Ken Uzui and Zhu Xu. Mr. Ken Uzui sent the Image of a Tough and Soft-hearted Japanese Father to Chinese audiences through the TV series "Blood Doubts". Mr. Zhu Xu sent the image of a generous and amiable Chinese father to japanese audiences through works such as "Children of the Earth", "Changing Face", and "Bathing". Unfortunately, "Children of the Earth" was not broadcast in China in the end, and Chinese audiences did not have the opportunity to see the Japanese father figure you played in the play. Please share with us the story of the three during the filming of "Children of the Earth".
Children of the Earth
Zhongdai: In the course of the play, I was impressed by Mr. Zhu Xu's performance, and I thought that there were such outstanding actors in China! After this confrontation, we have been in touch and communicating. In my opinion, Mr. Zhu Xu is very good in both acting and being a person, but unfortunately he passed away not long ago. Fortunately, Mr. Zhu Xu came to Japan for the last time a few years ago, and he also went to my "No Name School" to watch the young actors perform. Ken Uzui was a classmate at my acting school, entered the acting world one step earlier than me and has been very active ever since. It should be said that whether it is with Zhu Xu or Uzui Ken, "Children of the Earth" is the last drama we have cooperated with. This experience made me feel precious, and I will always remember this fate and friendship.
Although the image of your "Japanese father" was not seen by many Chinese audiences, in the 1980s, your two very different roles in "Golden Ring Eclipse" and "Gorgeous Family" gave Chinese audiences their first taste of your outstanding performance. Tell us about these two films and how you feel about the characters you play.
"Golden Ring Eclipse"
"Gorgeous Family"
Nakashiro: The Golden Ring Eclipse and The Magnificent Family are the works of socialist director Safu Yamamoto, whose works have always adhered to a critical stance against Japan's current system and the authorities. I played a very bad politician in "Golden Circle Eclipse", while in "Gorgeous Family" my role was adjusted, playing a tragic character who was incompatible with the system. The contrast between the two roles is great. However, an actor can play a variety of very different roles should be a basic skill. That's what I call the difference between an actor and a star. The star relies on the company packaging, in a movie to achieve success, the signing company will try to solidify his image, repeatedly arrange the same type of role for the star, or plan the work according to the star's personal temperament.
Conditions of man
Nakayo: I'm a drama actor, I belong to a troupe, not to any film company. So the director would propose to use me in his own name. For example, this is the cooperation with Toho Company. I'm not an exclusive actor in Toho, I'm a freelancer, and the director of Toho will invite me to participate in the film as an independent person. In different works, my role changes greatly, and the audience will not adapt at first: how can a person who is so good in "The Conditions of Man" play such a bad villain in "Golden Ring Eclipse"?
You have created a variety of characters, do you feel that there is a similarity to your own personality, or that you are impressed, and which character feels closest to your own personality?
seppuku
Zhongdai: This question is not clear in two or three sentences, and the actor is not a person's job. It takes a wonderful script, an excellent director, co-actors, and crew to achieve a wonderful movie. In this sense, a very good movie in all aspects is "Cutting the Belly". In Japan, everyone thinks that samurai are noble, and the spirit of Bushido is widely recognized in the world, but "Cut belly" is about the inhuman side of Bushido. In that era, the film talked about conservative forces and progressive forces, about improper systems and the lives of each individual. In modern times, the film touches on how people should resist if they encounter an improper system.
Therefore, the work "Cutting the Belly" transcends the times and becomes a recognized immortal work.
Nakashiro: I am also a young man, and before I die, if I had to choose the most satisfying movie, I would choose "Cut belly".
——You have met different people in your 70 years of acting life, performed deeply into the psychology of the role, and can enjoy the life of acting, which is the supreme happiness of an actor. How did you challenge so many different characters?
Tatsuya Nakadai in the interview
Nakashiro: One of the basic skills of an actor is observation. For example, if I want to get to know you as a person, I will wonder what kind of person your family is and what your wife is. For example, if an old man comes up in front of me when I take the tram, I will always look at him and imagine his life, family, and career through observation. For actors, observation is a very good learning. Be interested in people. There is a bad side to human nature, leaving aside the human nature problems, and the mistakes that this person makes. I like to investigate its internal logic and explore the method of acting. When we make movies, we have scripts and directors. To play Shakespeare's plays, you have to think about how to express them in Japanese. I've worked hard all my life, and I've had good luck, acting for 70 years. I'm interested in the theme of war. Because I was very young during World War II, I lived in Tokyo, and there were air raids every night, and I was lucky to survive. So I feel that human beings have all kinds of images, there are politicians and ordinary people, there are struggles against power, and the best media for freely depicting the state of the world is drama, that is, movies.
It is often said that Toshiro Mifune is the first protagonist of Akira Kurosawa's films, and you have a wonderful duel with Toshiro Mifune in "Tsubaki Sanjuro", and the ending is that Toshiro Mifune beats you. As an actor who appeared later than Toshiro Mifune in Akira Kurosawa's films, there is also a metaphor for the acting duel here. Among the many Kurosawa films, which work gives you enough confidence as an actor not to lose to Toshiro Mifune. Is it Chaos?
"Chaos"
Nakashiro: Before Tsubaki Sanjuro, there was also a "Stick of Hearts". Before I did it, director Akira Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune completed many masterpieces together. When Akira Kurosawa's earlier "Zi Sanshiro" was released, I was not yet an actor, and after watching this film, I became an "iron fan" of Akira Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune, and I have been following the films they worked on ever since. Later, by chance, I became an actor and officially starred in Akira Kurosawa's film for the first time, "Stick with Heart". In "Heart Stick" and "Tsubaki Sanjuro", I was the character who was ultimately defeated, in the words of director Akira Kurosawa, "Toshiro Mifune looks more powerful." This was followed by a collaboration on the film HIGH AND LOW. Director Akira Kurosawa asked me differently in each work, such as when he was shooting "Heart Stick", he told me to become a guy like a "praying mantis"; in "Tsubaki Thirty" I was asked to play a villain samurai; in the third "Heaven and Hell", he asked me to perform like the American actor Henry Fonda, instead of the previous villain, and asked me to play a "open" role. My back wasn't that wide before, and I worked out every day to make this movie. Looking back on my film career, I've worked with a lot of great film directors who have told me to imitate others while constantly surpassing myself.
——Looking at the chronology of creation, "Stick with Heart", "Tsubaki Sanjuro" and your "Conditions of Man" are almost the works of the same period...
Toshiro Nakadai (left)
Nakayo: Yes. "The Condition of Man" was made in total for six films, and is a film that reflects the barbaric invasion of China by Japanese militarism during World War II. The location of the story is mainly in China, but it is not possible to go to China to shoot under the conditions at that time. I remember when I was shooting the first two films, I was shooting in the first half of the year, and in the second half of the year, I was looking for locations like China. So the actors have half a year off. At that time, director Akira Kurosawa approached director Masaki Kobayashi and joked, "Can you borrow Tatsuya Nakadai to use it?" He's been playing for half a year. Director Masaki Kobayashi was worried that the role was completely different, and the actor needed to figure out the sense of justice in "The Condition of Man", but because he and director Kurosawa had a good relationship, he agreed. So I participated in Akira Kurosawa's "Heart Stick" during this period, and then in the half-year gap of the third and fourth parts of "The Condition of Man", I was invited to perform "Tsubaki Sanjuro". From the age of 24, I devoted the main four years to the filming of the six-part "Conditions of Man", interspersed with "Heart Stick" and "Tsubaki Sanjuro".
You, including Toshiro Mifune, that generation of actors created a thick, classical, heroic image of manhood on the screen. In today's movies, there are more so-called handsome actors, what do you think about the phenomenon that movie actors are paying more and more attention to appearance?
Tatsuya Nakadai, who was interviewed
Nakashiro: I'm not a handsome guy myself. Like Toshiro Mifune, Tetsuro Tanba, and Shintaro Katsumi, these actors with personality, aura, and even a little bit of arrogance should not be the handsome guys you are referring to. Compared to them, I am not a handsome guy, and I may be a bad person (laughs). I still think about the professionalism of the actors. Of course, the role of "handsome guy" is not unavoidable, and now in Order to attract young audiences in Japan, some popular and outstanding appearance actors will be found to star, even if the acting skills are lacking, but to a certain extent, the box office of the film can be guaranteed. However, if a movie is all "handsome", the movie will lose its depth. That would be regrettable.
When it comes to performance depth, unlike the performances of today's "handsome guys", you also have valuable stage drama experience and can be translated into screen roles. I saw an interview with you, and you said above that in the work "Cutting the Belly", you used some of the kabuki techniques. You're not a Kabuki actor, why would you think of this?
Kabuki Yotsuya Kaijo
Nakashiro: My father died very early. He was very fond of kabuki when he was alive, and I used to be held by him when I was a child, or held hands to see kabuki. At one point, I thought that watching a play was watching Kabuki. Later, I worked in a completely different drama from Kabuki. Kabuki has a term called "modeling", and I think "shape" can also be used in dramas. Of course, it is different from the "shape" in Kabuki, the "shape" of Kabuki is created by the famous characters in the history of up to 300-400 years, and it pays attention to "one sound, two phases, and three types". The performance is accompanied by a shamisen. There is music, there is singing, and by today's standards it is a musical. Audiences often lament the graceful posture of Kabuki actors, while dramas rely more on lines. The current drama also has a bit of the meaning of "appearance" first, followed by lines and posture, especially now, actors are performing on the stage with microphones, and the requirements for "sound" are further reduced. I think we should also adhere to the standard of "one sound, two phases, and three types" today. Otherwise, drama will lose its very existence. I've been trying to educate the young actors around me about this.
--You've worked with many film directors in your 70 years, the most well-known of whom are Akira Kurosawa, Safu Yamamoto, Masaki Kobayashi, and Kihachi Okamoto. What are some of the interesting things that these four directors have left you with?
Golden Ring Eclipse 3
Nakashiro: Director Akira Kurosawa is a very straight person who doesn't turn corners. Masaki Kobayashi is slightly milder. You can tell the difference from the way they are directed. For example, when filming, shouting at the actor: "Oh, are you stupid? You can't do anything as simple as that! What a thing, learn more to learn to go", that must be Director Kurosawa. Director Masaki Kobayashi has a quiet style, but he will say, "Okay, do it again, okay, do it again", and I used to shoot a shot repeatedly for a week, and it was difficult for him to nod his head through. Kihachi Okamoto is like a good brother who has been dating for a long time to me, like my eldest brother. He's a very good comedy writer. I've shot very deep roles, but he asked me to show my stupid comedic personality in various comedies. He knew what I had as a person, the kind of dazed comedy he had. And Sabe Yamamoto is a left-wing director who dares to fight against power. I've acted in several of his films, including "Gorgeous Family" and "Barren Zone". But to tell you the truth, my favorite is "Golden Ring Eclipse", the character of hoshino's chief cabinet secretary is really a two-faced and three-bladed villain.
——You also starred in Xu Ke's "Demon Beast City" in 1992, what was the opportunity to participate in the performance? It feels like this movie is a little different in your work.
Monster City
Nakashiro: Some of the different works are also very good. This movie was performed by director Xu Ke to ask me to perform. At that time, including now, director Xu Ke was a very good director, and he made a lot of action movies and magic films in Hong Kong. I also wanted to see this type of movie, but when I did a survey, I found that many of them had never seen it. After I watched Xu Ke's film, I felt very interesting, and the translator conveyed the invitation to me again, and I went. In a sense, this movie gave me a different kind of experience and left me with pleasant memories.
——Relatively speaking, among Japanese actors, there are more phenomena of actresses retreating to a certain stage, such as Yamaguchi Momoe and Hara Setsuko. Male actors are relatively rare. Why is there such a difference?
Drama "Death of a Salesman"
Nakayo: In a movie, even if I want to play this role, if no one arranges for me to play it, I can't play it. But drama is different, and I founded "No Name School" in my long drama career, and I can do what I want to do. That's why I've always been obsessed with the stage. When the actress is young, she suddenly becomes popular, but if her acting skills do not grow, she will be silent after a long time. So, real movie stars, like you just said Ms. Setsuko, we have also had a lot of cooperation. She has been very red since she was young, and at a certain stage she has retreated from the rapids, which was more common in the past. Today's young actors, acting skills are immature, but very popular. For a while, everyone asked him to shoot, but when he was not popular, he became uninvited. When Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune worked together, it took a while to make a work in five years. Director Akira Kurosawa thinks that he is a talented actor, and if he only lets him appear in his own films in five years, it is a pity that his acting skills will inevitably regress. So I heard that Akira Kurosawa went around asking other directors to let Toshiro Mifune act, which can be described as well-intentioned. From this point of view, it is really not easy to stick to being an actor.
——In your 70 years of life as an actor, have you encountered great setbacks that made you feel the moment of your heart?
An inspirational poem written by Tatsuya Nakadai and his wife Rumba, who founded the "Nameless School" together
Nakadai: My wife is also an actress. After getting married, she stopped playing and founded "No Name School" with me. She also wrote the script, a very talented woman, who died of cancer more than 20 years ago, when I was extremely sad and discouraged, and at one point I wanted to stop running "Anonymous School" and stop being an actor. But the suicide note left by Madame eventually kept me going. In her suicide note, she told me to "stay the course." So I gritted my teeth and decided, "Okay! Then I will insist on dedicating my life to acting." Actors lose their appeal when they don't sell, and I've been working hard to get the audience's approval.
Like you said, a good actor starts with being a good person in his heart.
Nakayo: I think drama is like life. This applies not only to the profession of actor, but also to all industries.
Interviewers: Wang Zhongyi (Editor-in-Chief of People's China Magazine), Sun Xiaoning (Beijing Evening News reporter) Photo: Chen Ke stage stills pictures provided by anonymous people Film stills Pictures from the Internet