"Most of the people who question me can't talk to me" Zhu Qingshi in the vortex of "True Qi"

Every morning at 8:30 a.m., Zhu Qingshi would arrive at his office on time on the campus of the University of Science and Technology of China. (Southern Weekend reporter Tan Chang/photo)

(This article was first published in Southern Weekend on July 6, 2017)

"The understanding of 'de-administrativeization' is varied, and the de-administrativeization in my heart is to let education develop in accordance with its inherent laws, and try not to interfere with administrative power."

"There is no problem with the college entrance examination itself, and at any time there must be a form of selecting talents, which is called the college entrance examination in China." The problem is, how do you test, what you want to test, how to select talents. The current college entrance examination, on the surface, is fair, but in fact it is unfair, because the educational resources behind it are unfair. ”

Three years ago, Zhu Qingshi, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, stepped down as president of the Southern University of Science and Technology and returned to his hometown of Hefei, Anhui. As the old president of the University of Science and Technology of China, he has a spacious office on campus, which is hidden and has no signs at the door.

Regardless of weekdays and rest days, every morning at 8:30, Zhu Qingshi would come to the office on time, browse the internet, read books, and study the things he was really interested in. Zhu Qingshi, who was not entangled in administrative affairs, enjoyed a quiet life after retirement.

Zhu Qingshi did not expect that on June 10, 2017, he gave a lecture entitled "Observing True Qi and Qi Pulses with The Body" at Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine, which once again pushed him to the cusp of the storm. After the content of this lecture was exposed by the media, public opinion questioned that Zhu Qingshi preached that True Qi was "scientists believe in pseudoscience."

"After you came to the text message, I didn't answer for a few days." In the face of the southern weekend reporter's interview invitation, Zhu Qingshi admitted frankly: "It's not that I don't want to talk about it, it's that I don't understand others when I talk about it." After days of "deliberation," Zhu Qingshi finally agreed to publicly respond to all questions about him.

On the morning of July 2, southern weekend reporters arrived at Zhu Qingshi's office earlier than the agreed time and saw that he was reading the "Introduction to the Pali Buddhist Scriptures". According to the agreement, this interview mainly talked about education, but as soon as they met, Zhu Qingshi took the initiative to talk about the relationship between science and Buddhism, science and Chinese medicine. When talking about the various doubts about the existence of his research, Zhu Qingshi seemed slightly excited: "Why are they so narrow? ”

Zhu Qingshi pulled out three books from the bookcase: Hawking's "The Big Design", "The Mystery of Quantum - Physics Meets Consciousness" and the collection of essays from a European popular science magazine, "Does the World Really Exist?" Each book is densely annotated. "Quantum Mystery - Physics Meets Consciousness" was split into three parts by him, which was convenient for carrying on the road. "Now young people don't read books and think that what I say is all strange things." Zhu Qingshi said, "Most of the people who questioned me could not understand my research and could not talk to me. ”

<h3>Test Buddhism with science</h3>

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Your lecture in Beijing has attracted a lot of attention and controversy, why did you decide on this topic?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> I rarely give lectures now, and this lecture of North Chinese Medicine is an exception. In fact, in 2004, the State Administration of Traditional Chinese Medicine and the Ministry of Science and Technology wanted to organize major projects to support traditional Chinese medicine and hold a forum on traditional Chinese medicine science in Beijing. I was the president of the University of Science and Technology of China, and at that time they invited me to talk about the principles of Chinese medicine from a scientific point of view, but that time we talked about "comparative principles" and failed to specify how to use the knowledge of modern science to explain the meridians and true qi. The years have been quiet, and I've thought more specifically about it. They had already invited me, and when I went to Beijing last month, I didn't expect to cause such a big storm.

This would have been a normal academic lecture in a university. I remember that in 1996, there was a Xiangshan conference of the Ministry of Science and Technology, the theme of which was "The Scientific Principles of The Meridians of Chinese Medicine", chaired by a quantum chemistry scientist I admired. The TCM meridian can be said to be a core concept of traditional Chinese culture.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Did you really observe True Qi with your body? How to prove it with science?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> True qi should be something in the same category as consciousness. I really felt it, very sure, so I said it. Some people don't feel it because their bodies aren't pure enough. This cannot be justified now, only wait for future scientific testing.

Nowadays, many people cannot feel true qi, qi pulses, and meridians by means of science and technology, but the ancients used their bodies to observe true qi and discover meridians. Because the life of the ancients was generally simpler than that of modern people, there were far fewer distractions and troubles, and the body was much more sensitive than our general.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> You used to say that after retirement, you want to concentrate on writing popular science articles, which is the last mission of your life. Articles like "Physics Into Zen: Dependent Voidness" and "Quantum Consciousness: The Convergence of Modern Science and Buddhism" are what you call popular science articles?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> This is not a popular science article, just my speech at some meetings, I did not expect it to be circulated so widely, if it is to be officially published, I will seriously revise them. It is recommended that interested people read "The Big Design", "Quantum Mystery - Physics Meets Consciousness", "Does the World Really Exist?" In these books, what I want to do is to compare these frontier trends of international science popularization with the traditional Chinese medicine meridians and Buddhism in china's traditional culture.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Some scientists think your theory is "witchcraft" and "pseudoscience" and criticize you for blurring the line between science and religion.

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> Quantum mechanics is difficult to understand, and I hope that people who are interested will try to read quantum mechanics first. I saw that one of the articles that disagreed with me was written by Wang Xiangbin, a professor in the Department of Physics at Tsinghua University.

The title page of the book "Quantum Mystery : Physics Meets Consciousness" by a physics dean at the University of California, is the words of John Bell, who proposed the important Bell theorem in quantum mechanics: "Isn't it very interesting to suppose that quantum mechanics is found to be unconstituted with precise formal systems, assuming that this formal system transcends practical purposes, and we find that there is a lingering force that firmly points beyond the subject, leads to the mind of the observer, to the Buddhist scriptures, to God, and even to the only gravitational force?" ”

You see, what I am saying, in fact, the international scientific community is studying and seeking verification. It is true that no evidence has been found, but it is a problem that many scientists want to study. I don't know why science has boundaries. Science is the pursuit of truth. When I was engaged in scientific research in the 1990s, the older generation of scientists said that interdisciplinary intersection is the most important form of scientific and technological innovation, and the largest interdisciplinary intersection is the intersection of science and technology and humanities.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> This is really not the same as the "popular science" in our general concept.

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> I am just saying that judging from the recent development of science, the core idea of Buddhism, dependent voidness, still has some truth.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Did your shift from natural science to Buddhism and writing such "popular science articles" have anything to do with your meeting with Nan Huaijin in 2004?

<b>Zhu Qingshi: It</b> is natural for me to know Master Nan Huaijin. He suddenly made me realize that there was such a person who had such a clear view of an issue that I had always been concerned about.

I didn't see Mr. Nan Huaijin until 2004. Why am I interested in Buddhism? When I was a child, my mother and the elders said that if they did not do a good job, they said that the person was "evil." This was the concept in society at that time, people can't do bad things, and there is karma for doing bad things. At that time, society was full of this concept, which became the self-restraint of everyone, that is, not to do evil. Later, I found that people did not have this self-restraint, and there were more and more social problems. Not only in society, but also in universities, a professor at Peking University said that universities now cultivate exquisite egoists. I've been wondering, what to do about this. Now that science and technology are so developed, but everyone is self-interested, there is no concept of karma, there is no bottom line, and society will have problems.

This is the problem I asked Nan Huaijin for advice: there is no restriction on people's hearts, and the more developed science and technology, the greater the disaster. If this continues, what will humanity do?

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Why can't morality be restrained, but should it be led to religion?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> People nowadays not only need to preach, but also need to tell everyone why they must consciously abide by morality. It's best to prove it: Why is it necessary to do this? In human culture, the aim of Buddhism is to "do all evil and do all good," and Buddhism has developed a systematic theory of why it is necessary to do so consciously.

The Buddhist concept of karma is used to prove that morality should be observed and that there should be reverence. This karmic report of thousands of years of Buddhist teachings in China is actually the bottom line of many people's hearts. Modern people think that this is superstition, and this moral bottom line is gone.

I've been interested in quantum mechanics since half a century ago as a physics student and have always enjoyed reading about popular science. I would like to test it to see if the scientific method can find some truth in the Buddhist system of thought.

Let's talk about education, education is easier to understand. I have been retired (from SUSTech) for more than three years, and I am much calmer than in the past. In the past, there were many emotional entanglements involved, and I now see the issue of education more clearly.

<h3>De-administrativeization of colleges and universities: "It can't be done yet"</h3>

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Did you recently return to SUSTech and see President Chen Shiyi? Are you familiar with SUSTech students and what questions will you communicate with them?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> I often go back, but I haven't seen President Chen Shiyi recently, and I still met him at the graduation ceremony last year. The students I recruited have graduated this year, 2013 is the last one I recruited, and I am not familiar with the current students. I stepped down, and I didn't talk about the school without understanding the situation.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> After leaving SUSTech, you told the students to "have the courage to change those things that can be changed, have the measure to tolerate those things that cannot be changed, and have the wisdom to distinguish between the above two types of things." At SUSTech, you advocate the de-officialization and de-administrativeization of the university, and now you think this is something that can be changed or something that cannot be changed?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> At present, it cannot be done. The understanding of "de-administrativeization" is varied, and the de-administrativeization in my mind is to let education develop in accordance with its inherent laws, and try not to interfere with administrative power.

The executive power does not interfere, but the executive power must support, must do what should be done, but do not go beyond what should be done. What the executive power should do is to provide stable support for the development of the school; what should not be done, such as choosing professors, choosing department heads, and choosing laboratory heads, is academic.

One of the most important things about SUSTech is to recruit professors, and after we advertised to the world, tens of thousands of applications came. According to the planning of the initial establishment of the school, the application is divided into each department, and then the academic committee votes to control the quality. The academic committee voted on this link, many people did not understand, the controversy is very large, as soon as I left office was immediately canceled. In fact, this link is stuck in the introduction of what should not be introduced. Some leaders of the school also want to be professors, and some superior leaders greeted and said that some acquaintances wanted to be professors at SUSTech, and the academic committee blocked those who lacked academic confidence.

If the principal has the right to decide, it will be difficult. I told them at the time that we were voting on the academic committee, and I would love to help you, but I couldn't. In this way, we resist "backdoors" and nepotism. Taking the academic committee as a key part of the introduction of talents is a key to the non-intervention of administrative cadres.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Is the abolition of university administrative levels a core issue of de-administrativeization? Have you come into contact with the university president who supports the abolition of the administrative level?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> De-administrativeization of course includes the abolition of administrative levels, but it is still relatively superficial. What does it mean to abolish the executive level? For example, the vice president is at the deputy department level, and if he wants to be promoted to vice president, he must be a cadre at or above the department level, which loses the flexibility of using excellent talents. Once a person becomes a vice president, it is very inevitable that he will be transferred or transferred, and he needs to be assigned a position in the deputy hall. If you look at the presidents of foreign universities, there is no administrative level, and some of the presidents have a higher status than the ministers, which is one of the reasons why they can run independent schools.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Based on your experience in founding SUSTech, what is the core issue of de-administrativeization?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> The key is how the school leaders are configured. If the big environment and big policies are not solved, it is impossible to do (de-administrative) in a school alone. The significance of the SUSTech experiment is to arouse the thinking of the whole country.

<h3>Ability to examine is the true equity of education</h3>

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> This year's college entrance examination has just ended, a Beijing college entrance examination champion said that it is more and more difficult for rural children to enter good schools, because he lives in Beijing, born in a middle-class family, he can enjoy a lot of superior conditions in learning, and has taken many shortcuts.

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> He told the big truth. It's about educational equity, and I've been thinking about it lately.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> You have been the principal of the University of Science and Technology of China for ten years and the principal of SUSTech for five years, do you have the family conditions to observe the students? What is the reason why it is now "difficult to get out of the cold door"?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> Of course, there are observations, and the real situation is just like what the Beijing Gaokao Zhuangyuan said. Put it this way, there is no problem with the college entrance examination itself, and at any time there must be a form of selecting talents, which is called the college entrance examination in China. The problem is, how do you test, what you want to test, how to select talents. Everyone says that the college entrance examination is the fairest way in Chinese society, because the only way for children from poor families to rise is through the college entrance examination. This is not true, because now the college entrance examination is to do the test questions, this kind of examination method, must have good basic education resources, good teachers and various training conditions, in order to get a high score, that is, the Beijing college entrance examination leader said.

The current college entrance examination, on the surface, is fair, but in fact it is unfair, because the educational resources behind it are unfair.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Who is responsible for this? Can only be committed to solving the unfair distribution of educational resources?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> Adjusting the allocation of educational resources is one thing, but I think the key lies in the way colleges and universities recruit and select talents. The talents selected by doing the questions are not real talents, and in this way, rural children will suffer losses.

Colleges and universities should examine the ability of young people in selecting talents, not whether he will do problems. China has always misunderstood the understanding of ability, thinking that the more knowledge, the stronger the ability. I have seen many students over the years, and there are often several common points in the ability to innovate: the first is to look at the problem in depth, not only to see the surface, but also to see the various factors behind it and the future results. Another is that there are many ideas, good at generating new ideas, and being able to determine which ideas are worth pondering. They also need to be actionable, able to put ideas into action, and good at self-learning.

I recently watched the news that there was a girl who went to Africa to fix toilets for Africans. Harvard admitted her, thinking that she had a lot of ideas and methods, which was the embodiment of ability.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> What does this have to do with educational equity? Is it possible that the more educational resources there are, the more opportunities the child has to develop this ability?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> Children in rural areas are not yet aware that they can do this. If you look for it in the countryside, you will find that although many children enjoy very poor educational conditions, they are very good at thinking about problems and doing things, and his ability to mobilize everyone to do things is no less than that of going to Africa to repair toilets.

I was engaged in independent enrollment at SUSTech, just to do this, to admit such capable students. It is not to test students to do questions, but to let students encounter a problem, to see if he can see the problem clearly, whether there is a way to solve the problem, and whether he can realize the method. Instead of taking a test paper for two hours, it could be a question for two days and letting him finish things.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> You ran many provinces at SUSTech at that time, did you really admit rural children or children with poor family conditions?

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> At that time, we were restricted by the conditions, and we ran seven or eight provinces at once, and each province lasted only two days. Therefore, it is still mainly in the provincial capital city, and there is no going to the countryside, and there is more than enough but insufficient strength.

What I want to do is change the evaluation criteria first. Now the evaluation criteria are single, that is, the high examination questions. And if you want to get a high score on the test, you have to train repeatedly. Repeated training requires educational resources, and there are not necessarily teachers in rural areas who can lead students to repeated training.

<b>Southern Weekend:</b> Many people now question independent enrollment, precisely to say that independent enrollment hinders educational fairness.

<b>Zhu Qingshi:</b> That's because they didn't understand this logic. Now many colleges and universities implement independent enrollment, it is easy to "go through the back door", or rural children do not have the opportunity to participate, so everyone says it is unfair. I said that independent enrollment is based on ability tests, and the ability test can only be recruited by colleges and universities independently, because it is not a unified test question, and there is no standard answer. The college entrance examination can be uniformly recruited because it has standard answers. Everyone goes over and over to train, which is not worth it, it is not good for the country, and repeated training does not mean that it is capable.

It is not the same test paper to go to the test is called educational fairness, and the ability to examine is the real fairness. I am not saying that the college entrance examination should not be taken, but it is necessary to gradually reform and shift the assessment method to the ability to account for more and more components.