The Paper
After the shanghai symphony orchestra's second album "Song of the Earth" recorded by DG Deutsche Grammophon, it received attention from domestic and foreign media and the industry after its global release. Recently, the Grammy Museum invited The Music Director of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra, the famous conductor Yu Long, who is the conductor of the record, and Zhou Ping, director of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra, and Marina Mahler, the founder and chairman of the MAHLE Foundation and the granddaughter of Mahler, to discuss the practical and cultural significance of the record "Song of the Earth" in today's international context.
At the same time, the dialogue was also attended by The Tang poetry text corresponding to Mahler's "Song of the Earth", the Chinese composer Ye Xiaogang, who created the work of the same genre of the same name, and Mr. Huang Liaoyu, the head of the German Department of Peking University, who has carefully studied the Tang poems quoted in Mahler's "Song of the Earth". Through online dialogue, they reminisced about the masters in mahler's memorial year, traced the inspiration for the album, and revealed the great efforts made by the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra to record works during the epidemic.
At present, the video has been launched on the official website of the Grammy Museum and the official website of the MAHLE Foundation.
Full text of the conversation:
I'm Elliott Fred of WQXR New York Classical Radio, and I'm here on behalf of the Grammy Museum to welcome you to this episode of The Land Song. Gustav Mahler's symphonic vocal suite Song of the Earth was inspired by German translations of seven ancient Chinese poems. The Shanghai Symphony Orchestra's latest recording for DG includes Mahler's Song of the Earth and Ye Xiaogang's work of the same name based on Chinese original poem. The work (Ye Xiaogang's "Song of the Earth") was recorded and released for the first time in the world.
Please join me in welcoming guests: Marina Mahler is the granddaughter of composer Gustav Mahler and founder and president of the MAHLE Foundation. Master Yu Long is the Music Director of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra, Ms. Zhou Ping is the Director of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra, Mr. Ye Xiaogang is the composer of this world premiere, and Mr. Huang Liaoyu, Head of the German Department of Peking University.
Welcome, thank you for attending.
Elliot Fred: I've been playing your grandfather's music on radio for decades, and I know that "songs of the earth" are particularly important and relevant to our time. This year marks the 110th anniversary of your grandfather's death, how does this work mean to you?
Marina Mahler: It means a lot. In my concept, "Song of the Earth" includes not only the original work, but also other works, such as the composer's (Ye Xiaogang's new work), which is very beautiful and powerful.
My grandfather called himself the "singer of nature," a responsibility he had entrusted to himself. Today's natural environment is so devastated that my grandfather died before World War I that I was spared the daily devastation and threats to humanity.
I firmly believe that my grandfather wanted to make more widespread use of the beautiful music he created, joining hands with artists, composers, and people around the world to create different versions of "Song of the Earth" in the form of independent individuals, institutions, or teams, which could be a performance, a theatrical work, a film, an original piece of music, or a literary creation.
Personally, as well as the MAHLE Foundation, I feel that it is time to join forces with all art forms to make people aware of our actions and awaken their imaginations. Recording this album is a beautiful project, with Chinese artists, with Yu Long, with the excellent composer Ye Xiaogang and the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra.
This encounter between East and West is very important. Mahler took the initiative to approach ancient Chinese poetry, and I know my mother, although Mahler was only 6 years old when she died, but Chinese poetry grew up with my mother, she loved China, philosophy and poetry. I think it's a way of working together to connect the world. So for me, I have a deep affection for this project.
Yu Long, I want to thank you. Your ideas are so imaginative and creative. As early as 16 years ago, he commissioned this work (Ye Xiaogang's "Song of the Earth"). Now that the record is done and the world needs it now, we're here to work together and do what we can.
Elliot Fred: Do you remember family anecdotes? About your grandfather's fascination with these poems?
Marina Mahler: I don't remember. But there is an anecdote about my mother. Ancient Chinese poetry grew up with her. She is very passionate about Lao Tzu and Chinese culture. When I was a kid she always said to me, "If you promise to be a horse, you have to run" (the horse doesn't stop). She told me it was an old Chinese saying that meant a lot to her. For my maternal grandfather, these were also very important. He resonated deeply with these Chinese poems, which came from ancient and excellent civilizations, and made him feel instantly. He wrote the most beautiful music for poetry, and in his time it was an encounter between East and West. Today we need to rekindle this encounter, and in today's world, we need to open our hearts, work together, and embrace each other.
Elliot Fred: What do you think he would think of the new work based on the texts he used? What do you think he would say about the project?
Marina Mahler: He'll love it. I have no doubt that he will enjoy this new work very much. He would appreciate the idea. If he had been alive, he would have been heartbroken by the devastation of nature, and he would have loved and appreciated nature so much that this love runs through his life and music. If he were alive, he would definitely speak out for the project. He's gone, and I feel obligated to do it.
Ellieu Fred: There is a master Yu Long. You commissioned this work 16 years ago (Ye Xiaogang's "Song of the Earth"), can you talk about that experience?
Long Yu: I was young and had just returned to China from Europe. Interestingly, I studied in Germany in my early years and always wanted to promote cultural understanding between Europe and Asia. Not only with China, but also with Asia.
Interestingly, Mahler was probably the first Western composer to write based on Chinese poetry. When I was in Germany, I read his life and studied his music. I have always had a wish to entrust another composer with the Chinese originals of these poems into the music.
Soon after returning to China, I founded the Beijing International Music Festival and the China Philharmonic Orchestra. At that time, the orchestra will hold a major global tour, spanning the United States and Europe. Before the tour, Professor Ye and I discussed the idea in depth. Professor Ye is one of the most important composers in China. Let's dive into that. Professor Ye is very knowledgeable, has written many books, and is an outstanding cultural ambassador. We explore not only the music, but also how to present these Chinese poems. Let people experience the same poem, can bring people different feelings.
We were inspired by the idea when we were young and energetic. I was in my 30s at the time, and I was eager to evoke people's feelings and feel different in the face of the same poem. I know German well, and because I am Chinese understand the original meaning of poetry. My passion drives me to lead people to experience the differences in understanding between East and West by confronting the same poetry.
I talked a lot with Professor Ye, and I am very grateful to Professor Ye, who understood my ideas perfectly and took them into shape. When we first toured this work, we were taken to the United States by the China Philharmonic, to Lincoln Center, to Davis Hall in San Francisco, to London, to Berlin. Through this extraordinary tour experience, it has gained the understanding and recognition of audiences around the world.
Just a few years ago, I conducted the Munich Philharmonic to play the work, and while listening to the new work, the local audience was so engrossed that they seemed to have discovered a new continent, a new frontier, because they had a completely different feeling from mahler's Song of the Earth, even though the poems were still the same.
In interviews, I said that most people indulge in their own lives and do not understand the cultures of other societies, but by comparing the two works, one can see the double picture, see how Europeans view love, happiness and death, and how Chinese feel about these most basic human emotions. It shows the differences and reminds us that we, as citizens of the earth, should try to understand each other and improve our understanding of each other through interesting ways such as culture and music.
I am especially grateful to the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra for working with me to complete the recording of this DG record during the most difficult period of the epidemic last year. Looking back on this long journey, what an unforgettable experience it was from the time I commissioned this work (Ye Xiaogang's "Song of the Earth") 16 years ago to the current recording of this work in its entirety and the inclusion of mahler's "Song of the Earth" on the same album. This is full of anecdotes and historical significance. For myself and for all musicians, this is true. It has made China, Europe, and everyone in the world feel empathy.
Elliott Fred: Can you give us a brief overview of MAHLE's popularity in China?
Long Yu: MAHLE is very popular in China. There are nearly 70 symphony orchestras in China today, and at least half of them regularly play Mahler, playing not only his symphonies, but also vocal suites, such as "Song of the Dead" and "Luctor's Song". In June and July, I conducted Mahler's Fourth Symphony twice in a row, once in the original version and once in a chamber version adapted by Owen Stein, which was very interesting. Chinese audiences love to listen to Mahler, and he is becoming the most valued and popular composer for Chinese audiences.
Elliot Fred: Classical music has changed dramatically in China, and you have led these developments. Yo-Yo Ma said of you, "He has a mission and great courage to create great change. "You clearly have a mission in mind, managing multiple orchestras and pioneering numerous musical events in China. Which achievement is what you're most proud of? What was your motivation to pioneer these activities?
Long Yu: Frankly, when I returned to China from Europe, about twenty-five years ago, I felt that the long road to building the Chinese symphony was long. At that time we didn't have a series, no festivals, no orchestra seasons. Interestingly, our generation has witnessed earth-shaking changes in China over the past 30 years.
I was born in the 1960s, and when I was a child, I didn't have the opportunity to listen to classical music until after the End of the Cultural Revolution. I am the first generation to study in Europe, and I am also the first generation of people to return to China to build a music career. To create a music platform, it is interesting to say that what we have done is to cultivate a musical life and sow the seeds of music for the community and society. I don't want to mention in particular which one thing I'm particularly proud of, but one thing I'm proud of is that we have all worked hard and continue to work for the younger generation.
This is very important, no matter what we do, such as creating music festivals, creating orchestras, cultivating the atmosphere of domestic musical life, developing local orchestras, etc. But no matter how much we do, the most important thing is that we look to the future, and we hope that the next generation of young people will have the opportunity to listen to classical music, connect with each other in music, communicate with each other in music, and create the future.
Music is an international language that breaks down national boundaries, and people can perceive and communicate with each other without speaking. We support young people to continue their musical lives in the future. We are very proud of this and continue to work hard to bring more musicians to the stage, especially in today's China, where so many young people attend concerts and regard music as one of the most important elements in life.
Nowadays, many people will say, "Maybe the future of classical music is in China", of course, I firmly believe that the future of Classical Music in China will have an important stage on a global scale, but the future of classical music will not be only in China.
However, the current situation in China is really good, especially the younger generation is full of enthusiasm, loves music, and invests time in music life. Look at the tremendous development of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra in the past twelve years, which has changed the musical life of audiences, communities and society. So we're proud of what we're working on, and we're excited to have so many people working with us.
Elliot Fred: Today we are not only talking about Mahler's Song of the Earth, but also Ye Xiaogang's new work. There is please Mr. Ye. Talk about how you interpret the same text in your work?
Ye Xiaogang: When Yu Long commissioned me and told me that this work would be performed in many famous concert halls around the world, I immediately realized that it was very important to establish the style of the work.
I am a contemporary composer with a variety of creative styles, sometimes avant-garde, sometimes conservative. When writing symphonic or chamber music works for stage performances, different styles are used. When I learned that the China Philharmonic would be touring the world with this work, I realized that it was important that the audience first liked it.
Secondly, I want the musicians who play the game, at least seventy or eighty percent of the musicians in the orchestra, to enjoy playing it, which is also important to me. Some musical works simply pursue a sense of collision, and many new musical works are like this, challenging the audience, challenging their auditory nerves, and even challenging concert halls and markets. But this work wants to be loved by everyone, which is very important to me, and this is the second point I consider.
Third, I would like to bring to the conductor Yu Long something that allows him to fully express his inner passion, similar to Wagner's work, so that he can fully display his passion on the stage.
Fourth, in terms of orchestration, it must be similar to Mahler's works. In addition to adding some traditional Chinese instruments, such as traditional percussion instruments, the instruments cannot be too different, otherwise the two works will lack comparability when played together.
I've always believed that sooner or later these two works will be performed on the same stage. I believe that will be the case, and in fact it does share the stage many times, so the size of the band must be the same, otherwise it will be difficult to make a comparison, and people have to feel that time has passed a hundred years, and that the two works come from the East and the West.
Finally, I also composed a singing section with Chinese characteristics for the singer in the work, so this work was combined with the above considerations at the beginning of the creation. Now it seems that the work was successful. Long Yu has led Chinese orchestras to perform this work many times, and orchestras from other countries such as Germany have also performed this work many times, and I am very happy about this. I would like to thank Long Yu for his creativity, and his brilliant ideas made this possible.
I would also like to say that MAHLE is indeed popular in China, and I fully agree with what Yu said. Mahler's Fourth Symphony, Song of the Earth, Young Devil's Horn, and other vocal suites I heard when I was seven or eight years old. MAHLE is very popular in China, and our conservatory students study MAHLE in various ways, so I agree with that.
Elliott Fred: I read your work and the title of the movement in Mahler's work. Among them are your "Spring Drunkard Speech" and Mahler's "The Drunkard in Spring", so much drunk, can you talk about this?
Ye Xiaogang: This is the daily life of ancient Chinese poets, they like to drink, write a lot of works after getting drunk, describe the feelings after getting drunk, this is a certain Chinese tradition, artists, poets, painters, writers, they always do this, but the meaning of their expression is not wine, but in the expression of attitude towards society, which can be 100% certain, the connection between the two is very subtle and contains multiple meanings.
Huang Liaoyu: I think that the encounter between Mahler and Tang poetry is a magical cultural event, Mahler and Tang poetry are more than 1,000 years apart, Tang poetry is a peak of ancient Chinese literature, Mahler is a monument in the history of the development of Western music. The famous German literary critic Marcel Reich-Ranicki said that the founders of modern music are Mahler and Schoenberg, when it comes to "Song of the Earth", we Chinese all want to know where the Tang poems in this are from, how these Tang poems translated into German are different from Chinese Tang poems, my teacher Professor Yan Baoyu of the German Department of Peking University, is one of the earliest scholars to study this kind of problem, I carefully read Mr. Yan's relevant articles, and did some thinking, Now I'll share it with you.
There is a huge difference between the German version of Tang poetry borrowed in "Song of the Earth" and the Chinese Tang poetry, which is not so much attributed to the personal quality of the translator as to the cross-cultural barrier, because the expression of traditional Chinese poetry is too concise and too subtle and too flexible, it can be flexible enough to make people wonder whether it has grammar or not, sometimes even if you want to conclude that the narrative subject or narrative angle of poetry is not an easy thing, it can be said that traditional Chinese poetry is a typical blank art. Its artistic effect is similar to that of traditional Chinese ink painting, so when traditional Chinese poetry is translated into foreign languages, especially into German, the translator must carry out a lot of interpretation and supplementation, he can only use his own knowledge and experience to supplement, so these poems change from multi-meaning to single meaning, from implicit to straightforward, and the picture of poetry also changes from abstract to concrete. Of course, the poems have also become longer, and I will give you an example to illustrate that in the sixth movement of "Song of the Earth", you take Meng Haoran's poems, and there is a very wonderful sentence in the poem, which is called "The song moon is cold late at night, and the wind spring is full of clear listening." These are two lines of poetry ten words, the poem only says that I saw the pine tree and the moon, and felt very cool, and at the same time heard the sound of the wind and the sound of spring water, for Chinese, these ten words are an artistic feast, and we can also enjoy synaesthesia, synaesthesia in English, which means that I saw the pine tree and the moon, my body felt very cool, this sentence into German, it became seven lines of forty-two words, because the translator not only has to explain how the moon rises, What kind of a pine tree is, he also has to explain from a physical point of view why it feels cool, etc., and the synaesthesia effect is gone, Chinese will feel that this is not a bit of a snake, but this translator may have no choice, you see this is a big difference, this is my little comment.
Elliot Fred: Thank you very much Professor Huang, the difference in the text in musical performance is really interesting, and then I have Zhou Ping, the director of the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra, how amazing and bold you are, to record this large-scale work during the epidemic, please talk about the challenges encountered.
Zhou Ping: It's too difficult, it's too difficult to make this decision, from the beginning all kinds of problems followed, every day faced with bad news, just solved the problem in the morning, there were things to solve in the afternoon, because the jet lag or even the middle of the night will usher in the problem, in order to complete the recording project, we invited two singers in China, but still need four people to fly from abroad to Shanghai, that is, two singers and two recording technology producers, you can imagine visa application, air ticket booking, boarding health certificate, nucleic acid test epidemic prevention and isolation, All the problems were met by us, as long as one person could not arrive, even if the other three were to Shanghai, we could not complete the recording, but we tried to move forward, because I thought that if the recording could not be completed in December 2020, it would be more difficult and more difficult to complete the recording next spring, I still clearly remember the American tenor Brian, who was in Vienna at the time, we prepared all the documents and visa invitation letters for him, and when he went to submit the application, he was told that he did not have a local long-term residence permit and could not apply in Austria. The epidemic made everything special, he had to fly back to New York, we had to re-prepare all the documents, and the time spent during the period almost delayed the big thing. At that time, you must first have a visa, in order to book a ticket, the ticket is a problem, it is conceivable that it is difficult to book, the day before the two singers take off, two flights are cancelled at the same time, we finally bought other routes through various ways, but we need to transfer at Frankfurt Airport, and we need to complete the nucleic acid test again, the transit airport also needs Mezzo-Soprano Michel De Young, after arriving at the transit airport, she ran to do nucleic acid, but failed to complete the test before take-off, the next flight had to wait for two days, she was trapped at the airport, the airport hotel was full, Later she told me she thought she was going to spend the night on an airport bench, thankfully a few hours later
The well-meaning staff informed her that a room was vacated at the airport hotel, and Michelle said that the mini room, which felt more luxurious than any hotel room in the world, excited her. The recordist also got into trouble after entering the country and was quarantined and sent to the wrong district because they had no idea of the various districts of Shanghai, and we later passed on our experience to the two singers to prevent repeating the mistakes. To be honest, those of us in China are very nervous, and as managers, we are always worried, insomnia in the middle of the night, afraid of missing emergency emails. I was also nervous about the soprano Zhang Liping's itinerary, not sure if she could fly to Shanghai to complete the project, but in the end, when we finished the recording together, we all felt that we had completed the impossible task.
Elliot Fred: I feel the same way, can you talk about the distance that musicians have to keep their distance during the recording process? Do I need to wear a mask? How did you manage this successfully?
Zhou Ping: To be honest, when we work together, I feel that there is a different atmosphere that we can't experience now, everyone shines brightly, as if what we are doing is a miracle from heaven, everyone is very focused, very happy to work together, this is a unique experience during the epidemic period, I still remember every detail and every sentence, Master Yu Long's command to correct the note adjustment and interpretation of emotions, it was a great experience.
Long Yu: Can I join the talk recording? I think Zhou Ping and the shanghai management have completed the feat, the epidemic period is very difficult, just mentioned by Zhou Ping all kinds of difficulties, visas and tickets are difficult to prevent and quarantine, we are very grateful to Brian Jade and Michelle Dejan, they are very brave, have the courage to come to China, so that the recording work can be completed, of course, Chris and Philip, two recording engineers came to China, in order to record the work to withstand two weeks of epidemic quarantine, not only that, all musicians are required to pass the nucleic acid test, only to be eligible to enter the concert hall, Making sure to be protected and not have any problems when rehearsing together is an unprecedented recording that I can't believe to this day, completing a historic album at the height of the pandemic, because we sincerely believe that celebrating this year's 110th anniversary is so important to commemorate the great cultural figures and composers in human history. We would also like to present you with a Chinese gift, that is, professor Ye and Mahler's "Song of the Earth", juxtaposed, want to listen to MAHLE's listeners this DG record has been released, I thank DG for supporting this extraordinary project.
I am very happy to see that this wonderful DG album was released in early July, contributing to history, contributing to mankind, paying tribute to those who love music and love culture, those who try to understand other cultures through music, thank you very much for bringing us such beautiful music, we pay tribute to Mahler in the year of Mahler, dedicate this album to Gustav Mahler, who is like the light in our lives, showing all musicians how to live a good music life, especially in the current Chinese music life is so active, I am very happy about the work we have done, as musicians we are fortunate to live in this era, it is very important to be with music, all the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra musicians, they are outstanding and excellent to complete the project, I am very proud of the orchestra, deeply proud of this project, thank you.
Marina Mahler: I was very, very touched to learn of this series of efforts, such efforts are very important, especially in the current international situation, the current urgent thing is that everyone communicates and cooperates, especially to support young people to support children, as human beings we are in the same world and one planet, music and all kinds of arts can connect us, we need to use art as a link more than ever, we need to communicate and help each other, this wonderful project is a model, the starting point of the next series of global cooperation projects. To this end we should celebrate grandly, celebrate and thank all those involved in this project, I am always excited to hear new works. I think it's a great success to be able to put these two works together, I'm also excited to be exposed to Chinese, this is the first time I've heard Chinese talk about Chinese, I have to say that I like to listen to you talk about Chinese, I now very much want to learn this beautiful language, my grandson is nine years old, he has been learning Chinese in school, my daughter and I are very busy, but listening to Chinese inspired me to have a strong desire to learn, thanks to the Chinese to set aside time, first speak and then translate, let me have enough time to listen, can appreciate the musicality of language, That's important, it makes us listen, and thank you for giving me this profound experience, and I can feel that this is the beginning of a series of collaborations.
Yu Long: I fully agree with thank you very much, I got a historic opportunity to complete this work, since "Song of the Earth", I created a lot of vocal symphonies, starting from this "Song of the Earth", and then created many musical works based on ancient Chinese poetry, so as to build a cultural bridge, I use the carrier of symphony to create more opportunities to bring such music to all over the world, I am grateful for this historic step, happy for you all of us
This new season we will celebrate mahler's 110th anniversary with the opening of Professor Ye's "Song of the Earth", which I think is important this year, so that everyone can get together to discuss how to promote cultural unity, learn from each other, listen to music together and listen to Xiao Gang's drunken songs, Xiao Gang you just mentioned drunken songs, but in my impression you don't drink much, right?
Ye Xiaogang: I don't drink alcohol, and I write drunk by imagination.
Long Yu: Let me add one thing, this time not only to celebrate Mahler's 110th anniversary, but also to celebrate the 140th anniversary of the surrender, the 140th anniversary of the establishment of the SUP, this DG released record, bringing the SJO to the international platform, this is an important milestone in the history of SJNA Mahler, I look forward to us and Marina Mahler can raise a glass together to celebrate, although Xiao Gang usually does not drink, I want to urge him to drink a little, to make the drunken song more energetic, but also thank Professor Huang for what he said very interesting, Mahler's "Song of the Earth" is like an oil painting, Xiao Gang's "Song of the Earth" More like ink painting, the juxtaposition of the two is very interesting.
Zhou Ping: Thank you and all the people who have paid for this project, there are many people who have not left a specific name on the album
But our joint efforts to make the album come true, we are very proud and excited and very happy, seeing DG print Chinese poetry for the first time in the album brochure, it is really great and happy, I hope that this album and this topic can let more and more people understand, Chinese poetry and Chinese culture, feel the difference between the two sides, but also understand the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra
Elliot Fred: Master Yu Long and the Shanghai Symphony Orchestra, the new DG record record recorded, released on major retail channels, including Apple, Spotify, Amazon and other online platforms, thank you again to all the guests and translators, thank you for your insights, I am Ellio Fred, thank you for watching.
Editor-in-Charge: Chen Shihuai
Proofreader: Zhang Liangliang
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