Estimated reading time: 15 minutes
A few years ago, in a living room in Denmark, director Thomas Vinterberg invited his friend and collaborator, Mads Mikkelsen, to watch a YouTube video called "Two Men and a Lock." In the video, two men drunkenly try to lock a bicycle, which turns out to be Winterberg's propaganda for his next film, which tells the story of a group of middle-aged men who have been drinking for a long time. Max was persuaded: the video summed up the state of human existence perfectly, both gritty and tragic.
The idea eventually became the Another Round (Druk in Danish). In the film, a group of high school teachers in crisis in midlife discover the findings of Norwegian psychiatrist Finn Skårderud, who believes that human beings are born with too low a blood alcohol content of only 0.05 percent. Naturally, they put it into practice. They hid the bottles in the doorman's closet and added a little Smirnoff to their morning coffee. Although exciting in thought, the film goes deeper than its comedic frolic and becomes an existential meditation on the midlife crisis. The film has received rave reviews at home and abroad and is almost certainly one of the most formidable opponents to hit the 2021 Oscars.
The Alcohol Project was Mickelson's second collaboration with Winterberg; in 2012, Mickelson starred in Thomas's The Hunt (Danish for "Jagten"), playing a wronged kindergarten teacher accused of sexually abusing a child in his class. The Hunt is also one of Thomas's bold and robust films, whose previous works include Dear Wendy (2005), written by Lars von Trier, and Far From the Madding, an adaptation of Thomas Hardy's 1874 novel of the same name starring Carey Mulligan Crowd，2015）。
For Winterberg, however, The Alcohol Project is his most personal work to date. In 2019, his second daughter was killed in a car accident on her way home from France with her mother. Much of the film was shot in the shadow of this grief, and Winterberg was filmed primarily at her school with her classmates. But in that grief, he found something akin to catharsis. It's a movie about "runaway pleasure," as he discussed with Mickelson on the phone with Mickelson during the dark winter in Denmark. "But at the same time, I experienced the loss of my daughter's life and experienced the eventual loss of control. It's like a stream of water we're drifting with. I will never forget that. ”
— Sarah Nechamkin (Digital Editor, Interview Magazine)
Mads Mikkelsen ("MM"): [in Danish] Oh, finally someone is online. That's great. Hello.
Thomas Vinterberg ("TV"): Sorry for talking nonsense between us.
MM: We're ready.
TV: Let's start with the friendship and work partnership between us. Well, I don't know where the line is between our partnership and our personal friendship, like now, you're in my next room, our wives are girlfriends, and we go to the gym together. We also occasionally talk about work. Isn't it?
MM: Yeah, there's no clear line, but it's an interesting thing. Because our partnership and friendship are a bit late. Because we knew each other from the beginning, back in the '90s, but there was no opportunity for us to work together, there should be many reasons for this. It was an interesting time, wasn't it? The way we define ourselves then starts with denying others. We are different from other people, and I think that's when we define ourselves that way. Small groups at the time did just that.
TV: That's also a kind of youthful approach. But at least it's right. I think I've always admired you, maybe secretly, but I do. I've been thinking that I should be able to give you something or invite you to do something, but that has to be something unique to you. I think The Hunt is the right choice.
MM: I mean, it's better to be late than nothing. Maybe that's the right time, maybe we're ready to work together. We were all busy with other things, but maybe it was time. Who knows. Now that we're working together, that's what matters.
TV: Yes.
MM: But tell me, you keep telling this story you thought of eight years ago. What was the initial trigger at that time?
TV: I think there are too many moral preaching stories about alcohol, and I think the idea of abstinence seems to be very popular in our country. Some people think it's a political correctness, but I'd say it's abstinence and fear, an act of overly rational reason. I would like to point out the fact that people in this country pursue rationality while at the same time as crazy good wine. So I wanted to see what was going on. And I also quickly realized why people drink and how people can improve themselves from drinking. Often, an idea tends to be more specific than what actually happens. It's just an idea about alcohol, and in fact, it could be a reflection of the mediocre and boring reality of the country.
MM: There should be a lot of reasons why this movie is so popular, and one of them is that it's not just about alcohol. Alcohol is in many ways the opening statement of a film that embraces life and celebrates life. But have you hesitated about the film's theme being too Danishized? I mean, obviously we can compete with Finns and sometimes with Russians when it comes to drinking. But now you know that people around the world are reacting to the amount of alcohol consumed in movie characters and they're starting to reflect on themselves, even if they don't have the same drinking culture as we do, which surprises you?
TV: It did come as a surprise to me, but I've learned the lesson I've learned many times before, which is that if things are too general, it's hard to get people interested. But when things become very, very specific, in this case, very Danish, very, very self-sufficient, people become curious. Then it will become vivid. I think there are two things that we do that are very important: one is that it becomes very specific and real; the other is that we forget ourselves, we don't have an action plan, and we don't have anything to tell others. We turn our eyes to the other side, away from ourselves, and try to discover. Then people started to take an interest in us.
MM: I think you're right, the more you can tell a true story from your own true perspective, the more people can see themselves in the story. Instead of telling just a universal story, as you say. I've said it several times, and it's the most Italian film you've ever made.
TV: Yes. Because I saw a lot of old Italian films when I was in film school, they had a wild and cheerful tone, and in many cases, there was no strict narrative that we were used to. And the lifestyle that a few of you celebrate on the streets also has some Central European flavor, which is actually not Scandinavian in a way.
MM: I agree. I think there's a kind of poetry here. There is a certain degree of poetry throughout the film. No matter how dark it gets. You've always had that kind of poetry in your films, but I think it's a little more poetic.
TV: The movie is probably the most honest movie I've been since I graduated from film school. It's so incredible, and it's a mix of types, emotions, personal responses, and the joys of working with us that in a way we can't control it. When we were shooting, we entered a state of self-forgetfulness, especially because of the death of my daughter, which was a state of total self-forgetfulness, and the whole film production was carried out in this atmosphere. We're all barrier-free, and that's what happened naturally. We just look forward. There's an element of candor in this movie, and that's what I'm proud of. That's what I've been working towards.
MM: I think you're right. It is for this reason that it feels like everyone is letting go of each other's guard in a very natural way. It's not that we don't have problems or that we don't get stuck or have things to fix, but there's a sense of courage to try, a lot more than I've tried before. Every time we don't make up our minds about whether it's good or not, we say, "You know what? Let's give it a try. "I think it's rare.
TV: When you make a movie, you always say, "I've never made a movie like this before. But this time, it was true. I've never made a movie like this. From the moment of writing this script, it was an untamable beast that wanted to go in all sorts of different directions. It wants to make a scene with you where you are so vulnerable and crying; and then it wants you and your friends to put on another funny comedy in another scene where you have to buy cod in a store. It insisted that the two scenes appear in the same film, and the two scenes were usually carefully planned, balanced, and submissive. So, the only way to handle this movie is to make it somehow beyond our control. Of course, there will be a script and there will be an editing process – it's not completely anarchic at times, but there's something different. There is a soul in the narrative of this film that is so complex that it is difficult to control.
MM: I agree. I remember it was very strict, in a sense, you already have the arc of the character, the character is there, and the character is logical. But in some places, that logic disappears because it's an uncontrollable movie. It felt like we were trying to make an uncontrollable beast, which was still quite new to me.
TV: It's funny because you mentioned runaway, which is a word I've been enjoying lately. And the loss of control manifests itself in many ways. This movie is about this. It's about the joy of getting out of control, but at the same time, I also lost my own daughter and experienced the ultimate loss of control. So we're there, albeit with emotional turmoil. We were professional enough to go ahead and finish the film, but it was like a stream of water in which we all went with the flow. It's amazing. I'll never forget. Max, people are interested in how to play drunk. You're amazing, you've got it done.
MM: I think a lot of actors find it easy to be slightly drunk because we all know what the technique is. We know that when you're slightly drunk, you try to disguise it. And that's all your character's goal at this point: to disguise the fact that you drank a little. Your actions will be different, and your speech will become more precise, which will make you more excited to some extent, but there is no way you can hide this disguise. So that's the way. But once you raise the volume, it becomes our trouble. At this time, it will seem a little too superficial. And that's tricky. But I think we get along very well and get to know each other well. So when we don't succeed, we don't feel ashamed, but we laugh at each other because we know exactly why things are wrong. We've all had this experience, and we can anchor it.
Also in handy is russian videos, where we look at the real situation of all Russians getting drunk. It's so inspiring. I mean, at least it tells us that nothing is out of line. Absolutely nothing is excessive, because drunk people are crazy in themselves.
TV: I don't know if you remember, but when I tried to pitch you the idea was in my living room, both 185 years ago, and I think what appealed to you at that time was this video called "Two Men and a Lock."
MM: Oh, that's amazing. But the beauty of things is that when you're so drunk, it's clear that you don't care what the people around you think. But at the same time, it seems that you always have a task. For some reason, you don't just sit in a chair and get drunk. No, no, no. These guys insist on locking this lock on the bike and everything that could go wrong will go wrong. It's crazy to watch them focus so much on this task.
TV: It took 15 minutes and they moved about two or three meters with the lock. It's amazing. But have you ever been nervous? Have you ever been nervous that you were going to perform while you were drunk?
MM: No, I wasn't nervous the day before, but I was a little nervous about whether we could anchor that point. Not those tricky things. It's the ones you think you can perform well, but the level is different. But for some of the more extreme drunken things, it's hard to find a balance, but when you look around and see that your friends around you are all struggling with the same thing, you'll be inspired.
TV: I'm nervous sometimes.
MM: A lot of things aren't there anymore.
TV: Max, people want to know about that dance.
MM: Yeah, of course they want to know. They can talk about this.
TV: Okay, let them say it.
MM: Dancing is your idea, Thomas. Thomas, is you want to see me dancing, you always think I'm an unreasonable fool, how can I not dance on the screen. And this movie gives you an excuse, and that's how I felt at the beginning. It's just an excuse for me to dance. But fortunately, the excuse is getting bigger and bigger. Ultimately, it is inevitable, and it must be a dance. That was the only solution to that scene.
TV: In my career, I've realized that some of the ideas come out like this: You talk it out, and then you say,, you're never going to be able to do it. You can never do that. It's too hard. And then you did. These are the people who really conquer the world. Max, watching you dance that day, it was a one-on-one experience of the movie. It was a beautiful disaster in our private lives.
Ida (Ida[1] Thomas Winterberg's second daughter, died in a car accident on a Belgian highway on her way back from France to Denmark while Thomas was filming The Alcohol Project. Dead, you're dancing, and everything becomes meaningful. In that moment, everyone was so great. Of course, especially you, your dancing style is absolutely outstanding. But behind us, there is still a shadow of this deep tragedy. I think that's how people feel at the end of the movie as well. Your good friend is dead. That's how Martin felt at the end of the film. Your friend has passed away. Still, however, you are weightless and anything is possible. And that feeling is overwhelming.
I remember a director friend of mine who saw the film and he was shocked by the ending. He cried, but he couldn't really define what it was. He felt like he had been run over by a train. That was the first time I realized, "Well, we've probably finished a great scene." Because he didn't know what to say.
MM: It took us two days to shoot this scene. I only remember very innocent faces, almost naked people standing there. Then you slowly sail into the picture with the most beautiful boat in Denmark.
TV: It was actually a fortuitous event. People who don't know Denmark think this movie is a declaration of love we dedicate to this country. The last fortuitous, the only ship in Denmark called "Denmark", with its beauty and pride, slowly enters the picture. As the boat sailed by, we had just started filming and everyone ran into the frame. It's another sacred moment when shooting this shot.
MM: I believe we had a lunch break and then all of a sudden you yelled, "Come on, let's start shooting this scene." ”
TV: Yeah, and then you start talking to me about the inner emotions of the characters. I was like, "I don't care." ”
MM: I'm sorry.
TV: That's really interesting.
MM: When you see all the faces, the whole scene has a sense of innocence. They are all in a specific area that has nothing to do with alcohol.
TV: Yes, that's right. No one was drunk, everyone was pure. Everyone is immersed in a certain state of ecstasy. It's a catharsis. We may ask ourselves, why did this film achieve such success? Why is it that in Denmark, or rather, everywhere the film goes, people flock to cinemas? Perhaps because it is so limited, restrained, and even dark in the world we live in now, it would be a longing and relief to look at things that are uncontrollable but that bring warmth and joy.
MM: I remember the first time we saw it was with a whole bunch of people, oh no, not with other people. I think it should be just me and my wife, during the lockdown. It felt like we were looking at something illegal. It was a bunch of young people celebrating together, they shared a bottle to drink, some were kissing. Half a year ago we still had this life, and now it seems that decades have passed. Right?
TV: I was nervous.
MM: It's still very refreshing to watch. But at the same time, we're a little worried that it will get some opposition because of it. But it turns out that people aren't ready to watch a movie that's confined by COVID-19. They want to see a movie about life.
| Translation: Edward
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exegesis
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Thomas Winterberg's second daughter, died in a car accident on a Belgian highway on her way back to Denmark while Thomas was filming The Alcohol Project.
Danish actor who won the Best Actor Award at the 65th Cannes Film Festival for his performance in the 2012 film Jagten.
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