Zhang Yinzhe Jeremy
The protagonist of this interview is Zhang Yinzhe, founder of M2M Coffee, founder of UNiUNi Coffee and winner of the 2014/2016 World Barista Competition in China. He finished eighth in the semi-finals of the 2017 World Barista Competition, the best result china has achieved in WBC to date.
Amiable and tenacious, persistent and calm, Teacher Zhang told us his love.
{ Share, Perseverance & Love }
"Calmly and enthusiastically sharing the joy of coffee"
For more than ten years, Teacher Zhang Yinzhe has always devoted herself to the coffee industry, enjoyed the fun brought by coffee, and shared and passed on this love to more people.
HOTELEX: As the founder of UNiUNi, how did you develop your barista team? We all know that great baristas like Doujanin come from your team.
Zhang Yinzhe: I was fortunate to be able to enter the coffee industry when it was in its infancy. We have been very persistent from the early days to the present, invested a lot, and are willing to share, people will like to do things and their own careers more tightly, I think this may be an important reason for team training and even later Du Jianning to win the world championship.
In fact, when I first met Du Jianning, I was not sure that she would definitely win the world championship, there was an opportunity, and it was also fate. Of course, working together as a team, learning from each other, growing with each other, I think that's the most important thing.
Zhang Yinzhe and Du Jianning
HOTELEX: How do you define a good barista?
Zhang Yinzhe: Calmly and enthusiastically share the joy brought by coffee.
Enthusiasm is the willingness to share what you like. Calm is that you can know the unity of action, know the impact of the supply chain on making a cup of coffee, and know how to choose. After mastering these things, you will be more calm and confident. Both are indispensable.
HOTELEX: We've seen you share coffee-related experiences on Douban before.
Zhang Yinzhe: It was about the same age as Douzi (Du Jianning). At that time, I wasn't entirely sure if I was going to enter the coffee industry, but one thing was pretty certain, I was interested in it.
And at that time, there were not so many ways to learn coffee in China, I will give a simple example, such as the concept of 18 to 22% of the golden cup extraction rate, which was already very cutting-edge at the time, but now this is the basic knowledge that baristas need.
So at that time, I was also in the process of learning, and I liked to comb through some notes when I was interested in learning things. At that time, it was mainly written for themselves to see, others can also watch, to help everyone to communicate, you can see if these ideas, things are done right, the original intention is so simple.
HOTELEX: Because of love.
Zhang Yinzhe: Yes, at that time, I tried to make it a profession, and at that point it was still wavering. But I really like it, so I learn with love, and I unconsciously accumulate some knowledge. At that time, it had nothing to do with business, because the store and the company were not established, but I was always judging whether it was suitable to stay in the industry.
HOTELEX: But actually this sharing has helped a lot of people.
Zhang Yinzhe: To be honest, this is an unexpected gain. Up to now, in fact, the coffee industry circle is not so big, through Douban sharing, some people in the industry have known each other early, even before my competition. The feedback, opinions, and even some criticism that everyone gave me can also help me to have a more comprehensive understanding and understanding when I open a store later, which I think is a pretty good experience.
HOTELEX: When we checked the information, we found that there were more than 20,000 fans, and at that time, we were the opinion leaders in Douban.
Zhang Yinzhe: At that time, fans grew naturally, in fact, everyone did not have any traffic. We joked about it, and at that time, there was no cost to write and write.
HOTELEX: You're good at summarizing, and a lot of people aren't good at summarizing.
Zhang Yinzhe: In fact, it is really necessary to summarize. But now it's different, a lot of training courses are relatively perfect, I don't mean just our family's training.
HOTELEX: It's all commercial now.
Zhang Yinzhe: I am actually not so repulsive to commercial things, because as long as there is a price tag on the coffee, it is commercial. The good thing about it is that it will be very detailed, try to help you learn what you want to learn in a systematic way, and there will be no problem.
And there is at least a uniform standard compared to the past. It is not to say that there are some independent and original ideas to oppose, but if there is no time to talk about this matter at the same level, it is actually very difficult to communicate.
So through basic cognition and understanding, we know what the essence of coffee is, what is the essence of extraction. This is the foundation that all of us have slowly laid together since that time.
{ Return to the field }
Don't forget the most important things because of other people's expectations
After five years, what is the reason that Zhang Yinzhe returned to the field again. What was the secret to his two CBC titles?
HOTELEX: The last time you competed was 5 years ago, right? In the past 5 years, everyone may also be curious, what are you busy with?
Zhang Yinzhe: It's been 5 years, the last time I participated in the world competition in 2017. In fact, most of the baristas participating in the competition will not regard the competition as their main business, but a good way to learn. He can also learn about the coffee industry through competitions, and if he participates in the world competition, it is a good window and opportunity to understand the coffee industry all over the world.
In fact, there are mainly two things, one is the M2M coffee roasting brand, better integrate the supply chain, choose the world's better coffee green beans merchants and even estates to cooperate more closely, and as the volume grows larger, it is also thinking about how to stabilize the quality of the product.
On the other hand, the store, because the store is not the same as the baking brand, the store is facing the consumer, the customer needs to drink a cup of coffee, then the overall sense of experience is very important, and in the face of more and more people drinking coffee in the future, as the store must also make adjustments and changes accordingly, which is the theme that has always remained unchanged.
HOTELEX: I heard you're back on the field this year. After many years, what makes you want to get back on the field?
Zhang Yinzhe: The most direct thing is that it will not lie flat so quickly. Through the competition, you can improve your life status and work status.
At the same time, I will feel that there will still be some regrets in the 2017 competition, and now the development of the coffee industry is somewhat I agree with, and some I think there can be some new directions.
2017 Seoul Competition (World Barista Competition Semi-Finals)
HOTELEX: We're getting ready right now, aren't we? What is the difference between this time's preparation and the previous one? Is there any change in mindset?
Zhang Yinzhe: Because I have been the champion of the World Barista Competition in China twice, in 2014 and 2016. Now there are two people who have won the Chinese championship twice, one is me, and Zhu Jingui, everyone is called Rhinoceros.
The mentality is actually different from just starting to compete. No longer need to prove yourself, more is to go all out to do what you want to do, share some good and interesting ideas to everyone, if this thing can be done without compromise, in fact, I will not particularly care about the final result.
So this competition, it will be very good to enjoy the whole process of participating in the competition, to communicate with the judges, to make favorite coffee and better to be yourself, it is good to be able to do this.
HOTELEX: Did you have anything particularly touching in previous competitions?
Zhang Yinzhe: I think the most impressive thing should be the 2015 World Championship, the first world competition was not better, in Seattle, at that time, the decision to go to the competition again, it is still quite important to me.
When I won the Chinese championship for the first time, everyone expected me to be quite big, because the English was not bad, the expression ability was OK, and the overall performance of the Chinese players at that time was not particularly good (the two years have improved very much). At the same time, I had great expectations for myself, but after all, this was the first time I participated in the competition, so what I thought I should prepare at that time was actually not so important, but the important things were ignored.
Reflections after the Seattle game (in Panama)
When I found that my grades were not satisfactory, I understood at that node that in fact, you cared too much about what others expected of you, too much about breaking records and creating history, and forgot the things you needed to really focus on. This is a big node, no matter what kind of competition you face in the future, whether you are competing or whether you are competing in the future, or in the later stages, like other players like Du Jianning' matches, you can do your cup of coffee wholeheartedly, focus on doing what you want to do, and go all out.
So when I decided to play again, at that point I didn't think about what to do if I won, what to do if I lost, but you felt that you didn't deal with the problem of the previous game to solve it. At that time, no one had won the Chinese championship twice.
So later on, I thought about it, in fact, there was such a mentality and idea, which also helped Du Jianning to win the world championship later, because her first game was particularly similar to me, it was not particularly good, and the state was not online, but later when I went to the competition, I told her what I was thinking about the second time, and finally achieved good results.
{ Ideal Cafe & Specialty Coffee }
He hopes that every coffee lover can easily drink specialty coffees from all over the world, and can calmly choose their favorite coffee without worrying too much.
HOTELEX: What is your ideal café like?
Zhang Yinzhe: The café in my own heart is the form of a community, whether it is facing the people around you, the barista or the guests next to you, there should not be too much burden in choosing this cup of coffee, that is, you can choose your favorite coffee.
Why? Let me give you an example, if this shop is particularly professional, professional when you go to worship, will you be afraid that the question I ask is not very stupid? Seeing a particularly expensive coffee, I will think that I can't afford to spend this money, but I am afraid that I will not be able to drink it well, which may not be what I like.
What I like is that the shop is very friendly, you can drink a good cup of coffee today, but if you can't say the specific flavor, it doesn't matter, just drink happily. This is the space I want to provide, so back to what we just said about an ideal barista, is to calmly and enthusiastically share the joy of coffee, I think it should be a good fit with this space.
HOTELEX: What do you think of specialty coffee?
Zhang Yinzhe: Specialty coffee is actually a strict definition, first of all, you want more than 80 points, more than 80 points, there is nothing wrong with the quality of coffee, but because the English name of specialty coffee is called specialty coffee, its strict translation should be special coffee, not a concept of specialty coffee, it must be able to produce the flavor of terroir, the flavor of bean species, if from this point of view it is a bit like red wine, it will have certain regional characteristics. So it is precisely because of the translation into such a Chinese everyone will misunderstand, thinking that the threshold of this thing will be very high, coupled with the information we get, it is true that the top coffee beans will become more and more expensive now, but in fact I will think that special coffee is actually a categorical, special, coffee with a certain quality. From my point of view, good quality is a necessary condition for presenting good coffee, but not all.
{ Coffee Supply Chain }
Zhang Yinzhe has lived in Australia for more than ten years, traveled to many places, seen many source production areas and different consumption environments, here we ask him to talk about his understanding of the Chinese and foreign coffee markets and supply chains.
HOTELEX: How do you think the supply chain of coffee in China is different from the consumer market compared to Australia?
Zhang Yinzhe: In fact, I just started to enter this industry strictly speaking, 2012, because in 2012 I participated in the World Barista Competition of Bowa, which was my first year to participate, and now it is exactly 10 years, in fact, at that node, I actually think that the development of Australia's specialty coffee industry is actually far more advanced than China.
But to be honest, after 10 years, in fact, I think the speed of China's specialty coffee development is as fast as the speed of coffee drinkers, everyone's professionalism has been comprehensively improved, and I will feel that even in some aspects, China will do better than abroad, first of all, the way stores show, and the professional training of baristas. And with more and more people drinking coffee, the production speed is getting faster and faster. I remember that 10 years ago, it was possible to produce a cup a day, and it was already very remarkable to be able to produce 100 cups a day in China, and at that time, a foreign coffee shop could already produce five or six hundred cups a day and seven or eight hundred cups, but now Shanghai Nanjing can also have more than 500 cups of coffee shops one day. Now there are more and more people who drink coffee, and at the same time, there are still a group of people who have certain requirements for the quality of coffee beans.
From the perspective of the supply chain, I may have brought some foreign coffee beans back before, and I can't drink them at home. Now we can almost choose all the excellent coffee beans in the world, and the professionalism of baristas is not the same as in the past, I think from this point of view, the development of Coffee in China is very fast, I can't say that China must be stronger than abroad, but the growth of the coffee industry during this time has made great progress.
HOTELEX: Speaking of which, I would like to ask a question, what do you think of Yunnan coffee?
Zhang Yinzhe: Yunnan coffee has also made great progress from the perspective of planting and producing areas. We can see that yunnan coffee was just for the sake of planting capacity, so the processing was relatively rough, and the planting environment was not particularly good, so at that time everyone may think that as long as it is Katim coffee beans, it will not be particularly good.
But what you can see is that in the past two years, some estates have indeed been very scientific about processing and even planting, and they will even consider that they are not able to grow any excellent coffee now, but consider whether the basic ecological environment here can better cultivate better coffee beans after 5 to 10 years, so from this point of view, compared with 10 years ago, the quality of Yunnan specialty coffee has been greatly improved.
But it is also true that growing coffee is actually more difficult than making coffee, because it is a much longer process. Yunnan's coffee beans are still a bit far from the world's top coffee beans, but I think the dynamic growth rate is more important than whether it is good or not now.
HOTELEX: We understand that you are currently doing the integration of your supply chain.
Zhang Yinzhe: From 2014 to the present, the industry has changed a lot in the past 8 years, after trying different models, it is determined to focus on people who just need coffee, and at the same time, to break down barriers, so that they can easily drink a particularly good cup of coffee. This will require a major integration of the supply chain, making it easier for consumers to try coffee from all over the world. At the same time, you can see that this is an unstoppable trend.
In fact, the supply chain is not only to say that the coffee beans we come in will be cheaper, but more to say that we have some coffee beans that other stores can't drink, or even coffee beans that are not available on Taobao, and the price of coffee is also very cheap, and today we can use an easy-to-understand way to let ordinary consumers understand what is the reason why we choose this coffee.
{ Epilogue }
In 2014, Zhang Yinzhe founded the coffee shop brand UNiUNi and currently has 4 stores in Nanjing. In the second half of this year, it will continue to exert efforts, together with the coffee roasting brand M2M, which is expected to reach about 12 stores. The focus of this stage is on Nanjing, but Teacher Zhang revealed that he may come to Shanghai to open a store in the future, and look forward to this day coming as soon as possible!