Dialogue with the Small Universe: "Fighting" the tiring times in a light way

"Manuscript" dialogue column

Who is driving our time? What did they do and how do they think? Dialogue with key people and record historical manuscripts.

Author | Li Shiyun

Edit | Wei Shijie

When offered to write about the small universe, Kyth, the CEO of the podcast app, was surprised. "A 10 billion-dollar company deserves a close-up," he said, "and if we had 7 or 8 screens on WeChat about our small company, readers would think it was a soft article."

The small universe has only about 30 people so far. It was founded in March 2020 and just turned two years old. It's hard to associate it with "success": there is no DAU in the hundreds of millions, the valuation, the daily life is still in the millions, as Kyth describes the podcast, "no amount and no money".

But the small universe has taken a subtle posture and objectively formed a certain value orientation confrontation with the most mainstream and successful Internet companies - this is what interests us.

At the end of January this year, Kyth was invited by Tencent to give a speech on the theme of "Why is the Internet Making Us More and More Unhappy?" By combing through the iconic features of some iconic products, such as the timeline of the Twitter era, the bullet screen of the B station, the likes of Douyin, etc., he provides an observation: how the functions of these products have built today's fast-food content consumption environment, making people more and more tired and unhappy.

The small universe was born in the demand of this era, and it is committed to becoming a "home" like product, providing users with healing rather than consumption. This also explains why it has gained so much love – users, anchors, and even competitors have expressed respect and recognition for the small universe.

As the only pure podcast application in China, the small universe is very "simple": only do podcasts, so that users are free from complex troubles; advocate "patience", when users want to browse the newly launched podcasts, there is no high-efficiency option left and right, but to move their own exploration in the 360 degrees of the 0th square; it hopes to "connect", listen to let people discuss more calmly, rather than vent emotions and cut off opposition; it also pays attention to "people", attaches importance to artificial rather than data recommendation, breaks the information cocoon - a series of characteristics present a value proposition, A pursuit of "beauty": rejection of strong stimulation, tolerance, and blank space.

In it, you can see the shadow of the early Douban, or it is more like its own matrix immediately. It not only provides instrumental value, but also emotional value.

In July 2019, it was immediately shut down and two million users were instantly zeroed out. Still, a large number of users click on the app every day to see when it's going live (which also contributed to the immediate eventual return). Users who had immediately struggled to break the growth circle, but who had been lost and regained, made the team more aware and convinced of who they should serve.

As one of the products that hatched immediately in distress, the small universe learned this experience. From day one, he clearly defined who he should serve, that is, the person who listened to the podcast.

In 2020, when the small universe is launched, the outside world generally believes that the mobile Internet dividend will be exhausted, and the growth narrative is no longer sexy, but this also means that the newborn C-end products can finally get out of the traffic volume with the giants and have room for natural growth.

In 2020, several giants have tested the waters of podcasting, and the final response has been minimal. The small universe has successfully established its influence in the podcast circle. However, Chinese podcasts are still seen as a niche market.

An audio entrepreneur proposed the "Douban Trap" to us, pointing out that after the product was initially labeled as elite and niche, it was often difficult to balance the original ecology of the community and the commercial demands in the process of generalization, and finally could only barely survive. But it is worth noting that Douban did not want to make a company at the beginning, and the small universe has thought about how to live and go further since birth. Kyth says Douban won't be the end that the small universe wants.

The Internet has not had an exciting good product for a long time. Its roots in Kyth began in 2019 and was immediately named Geek Park's "Innovative Product of the Year" that year. Possibly out of a sense of trust, Kyth agreed to talk to us.

His high-frequency words are, "I think," "possibly," and "probably." He refused to be absolute and kept blank. Colleagues evaluate him as kind, tolerant and attentive. But he refuses to admit that he has the same temperament as the little universe.

We discussed the value, vision, and challenges of commercialization of the small universe, as well as why "mutual understanding" is more likely to happen in the small universe.

Here is the full text of the conversation:

01 In the era of anxiety, create a home-like product

Geek Park: Your speech at Tencent, "Why the Internet Makes Us Less and Less Unhappy," was very impressive. Why did you think of this theme?

Kyth: It's been a while since I've felt that way. People in the barrage, in the comments section against 996, against the boss, the concentration of these emotions rises year by year. On the one hand, it is a place to create and carry a community atmosphere, and on the other hand, it is the lowest-cost emotional outlet. This is the unpleasant part of the Internet.

Some people have long compared the Internet to real estate, I wonder if there will be a product form of "residential real estate" in addition to "commercial real estate"? It was an idea that I thought was interesting to create a home-like product, so I put it in [the speech].

Geek Park: You pointed out that many Internet products are efficient, but also highly expensive, and the small universe focuses on happiness.

Kyth: I think it's an anxiety relief. If I'm anxious, after listening to a companion podcast, I may get a little healing, that is, to change my unhappiness from -60 to -5 or 5, but not necessarily to 60 or 100. But this improvement may already be valuable.

Geek Park: Is happiness a scarce thing in today's Internet products?

Kyth: It's too extravagant. I think a little bit of joy and comfort is already quite remarkable.

Geek Park: So that's why people love the little universe?

Kyth: I think the value of the product is actually converged on a feeling, such as useful, relaxed, the user is not getting the "most complete" thing. We need to know what kind of needs can be solved – from this point of view, the small universe has judged a need correctly.

When the small universe project was established, none of its (domestic) peers regarded podcasting as the only business, but we judged that everyone would want a product that only listened to podcasts, so we did it. When we first went live, we only pushed three shows a day, and in this era, it was charming to give only one thing with limited options.

We are making the product simple, natural, clean, or create a better atmosphere, etc., dare not say that it is more standard, in fact, it is more attentive.

Geek Park: How does "intention" manifest itself?

Kyth: For example, we always look at the various opinions that mention small universes on social platforms through tools, and many of them reply individually. We will use all kinds of means to understand users, understand people, and understand human nature.

The daily work of the small universe team | Courtesy of respondents

Geek Park: What do you see in this feedback?

Kyth: As an example, one might say in the comments section of a small universe, "The female guest's voice is too harsh." If you're in the lead,you'll think it's a bad comment and the user isn't polite. But the user may have been really intimidated by a less complete (sound) clip of the anchor, which was a very natural reaction for him.

I think what to do is the last step, and understanding the user first is the first step. If our team fails to empathize with a certain user's expression in a certain scene, it is actually very dangerous.

Geek Park: Why is empathy so important?

Kyth: Because understanding others is the product manager's job.

Geek Park: You said you wanted to make a product that only serves empathetic people, why did you have that idea?

Kyth: Probably my biggest feeling at the time was that there were too few people with empathy in the world. So I sometimes feel that it's not worth spending time with people who don't have empathy. Of course it was just a momentary thought, and it quickly disappeared.

Geek Park: Will the little universe be made only for empathetic people?

Kyth: Definitely not. I think it's grayscale, not black and white.

Geek Park: The small universe's top podcast is about women's content, how to avoid a strong value-oriented, divided discussion in the community?

Kyth: First of all, this type of podcast doesn't make up much of it. Secondly, the community form of the entire small universe is isolated according to the program, and the audience of each program is a community of its own, so they have little chance of influencing each other.

In fact, the podcast listeners themselves are not too emotional. Because listening is a high-barrier behavior, it is not easy to listen to an average of one hour of audio, not ghost stories or hunting stories. It may in itself mean that you have the willingness to embrace other people's ideas. It's not like writing an article, the first second I see, I disagree with this person's point of view, I'm going to smash it.

That's why I say that mutual understanding is more likely to happen in a small universe. That's what we want to see.

Geek Park: What kind of community does The Little Universe want to build?

Kyth: I think the community (atmosphere) of the small universe is light, and we want to maintain that faint feeling — not just in terms of design, but probably less emotionally.

Geek Park: You've always emphasized that the essence of the small universe is "service", what is the relationship between "community" and "service"?

Kyth: The community is part of the service. Because the fundamental meaning of community is to provide a place where people can get together and feel a sense of empathy. So we serve listeners and anchors through the community.

Geek Park: What are some of the moments when the little universe touched you?

Kyth: That's quite a lot. For example, the user's message is very, very long and serious, and it is obvious that after listening to the program carefully, he said what he wanted to say to the anchor. The small universe connects people to each other, and I think this is very satisfying.

Geek Park: You mentioned that the vision of the small universe is to "connect people and the world".

Kyth: Right. The mobile Internet has become more hostile in the whole society in the past decade, and this connection is very rare in our social state, and it is also the unique value of the small universe.

Geek Park: It seems that in addition to emotional needs, many people use small universes to learn knowledge.

Kyth: These are two of the most typical small universe user scenarios. Nowadays, young people like to learn from podcasts like chats, unlike buying lessons, and they may feel tired if they use the name of "lessons". Maybe what they need is something that can be summed up as "shallow learning."

Geek Park: So the little universe caters to human nature in a way.

Kyth: Making products must be based on human nature to some extent, otherwise it will be eliminated.

Geek Park: Do you play TikTok?

Kyth: Yes, at the end of the day, play before bedtime. I think the problem that TikTok solves is relaxation, and if you relax to it, it's actually quite remarkable.

Geek Park: But doesn't it make you feel unhappy?

Kyth: It's possible. This is quite interesting, because vibrato can give people a very direct stimulation, play often timeout, so it is difficult to turn off the vibrato is also difficult to be happy. I now have a 15-minute (use) duration limit set for TikTok.

Geek Park: Would you like to tweak some of the content from tencent's previous speech?

Kyth: No, it won't. In fact, there is no conflict, and different needs can be reflected in a person.

02 Talking about the "Douban Trap": Small universes do not have to be "big", but to be "strong"

Geek Park: You mentioned the game Traveling Frog in your speech, and you said it made people feel a little sad and beautiful, but a very harsh reality is that not many people play Traveling Frog anymore.

Kyth: So that might not be a good example.

Geek Park: All people who mention the little universe will say, this product is good, I love it. But they are also curious about whether the small universe can survive and how far it can go.

Kyth: Thank you so much for your concern, we will try our best to keep the little universe alive and go as far as possible. As for what kind of decision and path to choose, it is difficult for us to say clearly and clearly.

Geek Park: Can it be understood that you are still exploring?

Kyth: Definitely exploring. But I think this challenge is not just thrown to the small universe, but also to all the Internet companies today.

Geek Park: Chen Rui has a saying that "there are only two kinds of Internet products, one is excellent, and the other is dead", do you agree?

Kyth: Let me think, it seems to mean that those who die are not good. I think dying is definitely not what we want anyway.

Geek Park: What is the current state of commercialization of the small universe?

Kyth: So far, we've launched a lot of paid shows and episodes that have sold well. At the same time, the platform level has also done several business cooperation cases, customer reviews are quite positive, and recently continued to talk about this year's cooperation.

The small universe will certainly not only have one business model, we will think about what kind of model is healthier and longer-lasting.

Geek Park: Some people mention the "Douban trap", that is, after a product is named with feelings and taste, this will become an obstacle to future commercialization. Are you worried that the small universe will fall into this "trap"?

Kyth: I am a very old user of Douban, and I registered in 2005 (the year Douban was founded). I think Douban is still used by many people today, and even these two years may be the high point of its daily life in 17 years, which is not easy.

But that's not the end we want. We usually talk about some companies that may refer to, but rarely mention Douban. Because Douban spans two eras, the logic of the mobile Internet era is very different from the PC Internet era.

Geek Park: But you mentioned that listening is an act with a threshold, does that mean that podcasts have a hard time getting rid of the niche?

Kyth: I certainly disagree. This sentence may presuppose a logic, although he did not say it, but he thought in his heart, "The popular is good."

The definition of the masses and niches has also changed with the times. Our industry only begins to measure the future prospects of a business in terms of DAU or total users after a certain point in time. The future may not be so absolute.

Geek Park: The number of people who listen to podcasts is limited, and the content that people can listen to in a day is also limited, does this determine that the ceiling of podcasts is not high?

Kyth: From an entrepreneurial point of view, we don't like to hear words like ceiling, and we try more to think about how to make things happen. The challenge for a product manager is how to build something more solid on something that is limited.

The Small Universe team recorded the show | Courtesy of respondents

Geek Park: The small universe now accounts for more than 50% of the non-first-line people, is this the small universe expanding?

Kyth: See what you think. Even if the product is small, the proportion of super first-line users is limited. And the listening of podcasts is closed screen, which is not so affected by the crowd.

Geek Park: Does Little Universe have plans to expand users outside the fifth ring next?

Kyth: If people in fourth- and fifth-tier cities want to hear about the small universe, I wouldn't say he wouldn't come. But we will not acquire sinking users on a strategic large scale like big factories, and we are far from this stage.

Geek Park: I used to invest and pursue growth at the moment, but then I found that it didn't make much sense, is it related to this?

Kyth: There's definitely one thing. Mainly after immediately removing the shelves, you will pull out and think, why should others use your product? It is to understand a very simple truth, who your product is made for, and what kind of value you want to provide.

Geek Park: For Whom is It Done Now?

Kyth: The number of immediate transformations is quite large, the earliest is the information reminder tool, serving a group of people who are more concerned about the quality of their information acquisition. Then for a while, we wanted to pursue a larger, more generalized young circle, and it was not necessarily reasonable to look back. Now it is still in the adjustment and transformation period, and after more changes in the product, everyone may see more clearly who they want to serve.

Geek Park: Who is that little universe for?

Kyth: Because of the immediate experience, we had a very serious discussion of this issue, and it was very clear at the beginning of the project, we were serving podcast fans. It's not necessarily "fan" now, but it's always been the people who listen to podcasts and the people who do podcasts, and it may continue to expand in the future.

Geek Park: Will the small universe take the detour it once took?

Kyth: I think I think a little bit more clearly now than before.

Geek Park: What level of user size has the small universe reached so far?

Kyth: We're millions of daily actives right now. Although we may think that the small universe is doing a good job, there are still too few people who know about podcasts. Our biggest commitment is to "naturally" let more people know about podcasts and listen to podcasts.

Geek Park: But the conflict between the growing size of the community and the original ecology has always been a problem. Station B has also been encountered.

Kyth: I think Station B is very successful, and if Station B is not successful, it's too difficult for us to do.

Geek Park: How does it count as success?

Kyth: It's a good job, and I think it's made a very, very difficult balance. In fact, station B is very close to us, about 500 meters.

Geek Park: Have you communicated?

Kyth: Not at all.

Geek Park: Strictly speaking, the small universe is still too small to face this problem.

Kyth: So to speak. I know that this (balance) is definitely difficult, but the product manager is to solve such a problem, can not say that the scale and the original ecology conflict, choose one and it is over.

Geek Park: Would you like that day to come as late as possible?

Kyth: I don't think it's a black-and-white tipping point.

Geek Park: Ultimately does the little universe want to be "big and beautiful"?

Kyth: Small and large are vague words. If more than 500 million (users) is called "big", most companies may not be able to do it. I think that compared to "big", the most important thing for the company is to be strong, that is, to be healthy, upward, and live a long time.

Geek Park: Does Upward Mean Sustained Growth?

Kyth: I don't think it's right that a company has to grow forever. Upward is a state of affairs, so that everyone in the company feels that tomorrow is more likely to be better.

Geek Park: A company like Douban, do you think it is still up?

Kyth: I really don't know, in Beijing, too far away.

03 and the immediate team in the same vein: distinguishing the narrative of the big factory

Geek Park: How did you go from being a guy with a financial background to becoming an Instant Product Owner?

Kyth: I was the first product manager when I came to the company. Later, when I recruited a product manager, I was equivalent to the leader of this line.

Geek Park: Did you happen to be the first to join?

Kyth: It's possible (immediately) that someone else was contacted, but didn't come.

Geek Park: Did you understand product managers back then?

Kyth: I don't understand it, I learned it later. Before coming to the company, my impression of the product manager mainly came from two people, one was Jobs and the other was Luo Yonghao.

Geek Park: I've noticed that the instant and the small universe will recruit people without any business-related background, and you recruit people quite boldly.

Kyth: That's not a hurdle for our startup. We don't prescribe "what kind of people to recruit", and many of the company's current backbones may not be based on traditional criteria (screening). We still pay more attention to people who have ideas, personalities, like to create, and have curiosity, and if they recruit the right people, they don't really need to manage the action.

The small universe is an instant incubation project, and many colleagues come from the moment, so they more or less inherit the style of doing things immediately.

Geek Park: You're still hiding Easter eggs in the code, aren't you?

Kyth: Easter eggs are a reflection of our company's temperament, and we would like the product to be more humane and have a moment that will make your eyes shine. This is probably something that our company has been consistent for seven years of founding.

Geek Park: How did your product view come about step by step?

Kyth: On the one hand, it's about going through the process of doing the product at hand and dealing with users. On the other hand, it is to look at things, to see what others write, to see the products made by others. When they were younger, later colleagues often learned from the way colleagues came first.

Geek Park: What did you learn from Ip Tin Tung (the founder of the moment, the screen name "Wa Gong")?

Kyth: My mentor was Mr. Watts, and he was the product manager of the company before I came. I learned a lot from him, including what a good product and experience is, and how to be a CEO and leader.

Geek Park: What products do he think are good?

Kyth: We rarely use distillation (text) methods, but more examples, such as sending a screenshot over. If you have to sublimate it, it's a bit like "case law."

Geek Park: So when you make your own products, what do you measure the quality of the products?

Kyth: We still like something more emotional in our work, and we draw a mechanical data line less often. There's a saying about PMF (Product/Market Fit) that if your product reaches PMF, you'll know, you won't be unaware.

I think that in the development stage of the company, there may be some psychological milestones, not necessarily numerical milestones.

Geek Park: Did that immediately reach a "psychological milestone"?

Kyth: Yes. 2019 was immediately removed for a full year, but when we returned, we were able to get users back, which was actually not easy. There is a kind of imaginary word called feelings, which shows that we not only provide users with tool value, but also emotional value.

In fact, the present (for users) may not have a particularly strong or absolute value point, but he is still willing to come and see, because this is a familiar old neighborhood and the like. I may not necessarily pay, but I use my time to vote for products.

If you think about it in the new decade, I think the uniqueness of this kind of emotional product will be greater, and it is more likely to survive in the new competition.

Geek Park: Is this a breakthrough under the strong invasion of traffic products?

Kyth: I don't think it's quite accurate to use the word breakout. Because this kind of thing is often not made intentionally, it is often unintentional. Intentional feelings tend to be out of shape or clumsy.

Geek Park: Some product managers at major manufacturers lament that they have been taught how to keep users alive for longer, how to get intuitive data feedback, etc., but these actually prevent them from making products that are really good. In a sense, you're lucky.

Kyth: It could be two tracks. At this stage of development in a large factory company, there is an OKR in two months, and it may be difficult for you to do something very free and creative.

Geek Park: After 2020, big manufacturers have also done podcasts, and they are used to holding high, what impact does this have on you?

Kyth: Podcasting is still something that very few people know, and I'm happy if there are more friends to push broadcasters.

But podcasting is unlikely to be a business that can bring high growth in the short term, nor is it a business that can bring in a lot of revenue in the short term. Neither the amount nor the money can make it difficult for these projects to survive for long.

The work of the Small Universe team is | Courtesy of respondents

Geek Park: Didn't you start the project with survival in mind?

Kyth: That's not what we thought at the time. The more areas that look likely to have low ceilings, the more suitable it is for startups to go from zero to one, because the big factories were not looking at it at that time.

And the assessment of startups and large factories is still different. If there are 1,000 people using a product in a startup, I may already be happy in my heart, but it may be unqualified for a large factory.

Geek Park: In 2020, when the small universe is launched, the market generally believes that the era of C-end products is over, what did you think at that time?

Kyth: Of course, C-end products as a whole may get less market attention, but it also means that good C-end products may be more easily visible. To be honest, I think this year is a very suitable year for C-end products.

For example, at the end of January, the "gel" was on fire for a week. This shows that we are too hungry for fun things.

Geek Park: So this is your good time?

Kyth: We didn't think about that much of the general trend [at the time], and the general trend changed after it was made.

04 The competitiveness of a product lies in insisting on its own uniqueness, rather than diluting it

Geek Park: What are the "full chain services" that Little Universe provides to creators?

Kyth: For example, we made a editing tool for creators, and there are many intangible services, including chatting with anchors, understanding their difficulties and demands, and so on. We put a lot of manpower and time into it.

Geek Park: It seems like you're going to focus on recommending new podcasts.

Kyth: Something that the user is familiar with belongs to his safe zone, and there may be something he hasn't heard of at all, but it's valuable, and we'll recommend it to him.

Suppose there is a music podcast about Schubert, I guess few people may know about him, but this kind of content is worth knowing, it is not easy, maybe this is a good opportunity to recommend it to everyone.

Geek Park: The small universe now has data recommendations and artificial recommendations, do you trust data more or believe more in human judgment?

Kyth: Probably fifty-fifty. But data is for decision-making, and in the end, people have to make decisions.

People who like newspapers and magazines should be able to understand the value of human recommendations. Newspapers and magazines are not only written and edited by people, but also picked by people. That's equivalent to how much I think this thing should occupy your limited attention. The small universe should always have artificial recommendations.

Geek Park: Your manual referral team is only three or four people, how do you pick them?

Kyth: It's actually not that mechanical. For example, during the interview, I will ask them what their hobbies are, what are the works, books, movies, etc. that have a great influence on them. I think that to see what kind of person a person is, you can look at his cultural genealogy and see what kind of nutrition he has irrigated from childhood to adulthood.

Geek Park: Creators care a lot about the recommendation mechanism because it affects their exposure and revenue.

Kyth: That's also the difficulty with serving creators. After more and more people do podcasts, everyone wants to be on the home page, get more traffic, and more returns.

However, no product will disclose its own recommendation mechanism, and this mechanism may not necessarily predict changes in the podcast content ecology. I've been thinking lately about how to make the streamer feel the support of the audience in more ways.

Geek Park: So how do you balance it?

Kyth: On the one hand, we're trying to do bigger. On the other hand, trying to build a better ecology, so that new podcasts continue to appear and existing podcasts continue to do, we strive to do these two things well.

Geek Park: "Audio First Share" Himalayas are not profitable, will the willingness of audio users to pay be low?

Kyth: I think we need to talk about it. Probably the main reason is not the audio.

Geek Park: The Himalayas make money from audiobooks, Lychee makes money from companion audio, will the small universe introduce these types?

Kyth: I think the competitiveness of a product may be more about how to stick to its own uniqueness than dilute it. More of our audio content is still related to the creator's self-expression, that is, what you say, whether it is only you who can say it.

Geek Park: Does Sleep-Aid Audio have its own expression?

Kyth: I think it will still be a little less.

Geek Park: How to do commercialization to avoid harming the user experience?

Kyth: I think Discord's membership model is very good, almost by commercializing it without affecting any user experience. It has a community similar to the Douban group, at the beginning everyone can only build a community of 1,000 people, and then the community members can crowdfund funds to the station, and the station can expand the community into a volume of 10,000 people. It is equivalent to a kind of community energy realization.

Geek Park: Will your financial background be more advantageous for the future commercialization of the small universe?

Kyth: It doesn't matter, I don't think it's needed.

Geek Park: Will the Little Universe just do podcasts as always?

Kyth: It depends on how you define a podcast.

05 The key to lowering the ego is to stay in awe

Geek Park: Do you feel tired as a product manager or as a CEO?

Kyth: Definitely more tired when CEO. But this tiredness is not necessarily the tiredness of labor, and the CEO has to bear more other things.

One of the biggest feelings is that you can't have something you don't understand at all, or you can't leave things to another person because you can't evaluate how well he's doing.

Geek Park: Are you the supreme decision maker in the small universe?

Kyth: It should be counted.

Geek Park: Is there anything you need to discuss with Ye Xidong?

Kyth: Almost nothing. What I remember [the discussion] was about spending a lot of money, including that we had an offline event a year and needed to apply for money.

Geek Park: Is the Little Universe Short of Money Right Now?

Kyth: I used to come from a financial background, so in fact, in terms of words, I think even the healthiest companies are short of money.

Geek Park: Would you consider financing alone?

Kyth: I think we'll think carefully at the right time, mainly to see what kind of decisions are better for the small universe.

Geek Park: Can you juggle the moment and the small universe at the same time?

Kyth: Most of my energy is still in the small universe. But I also manage the immediate product team and will give [them] guidance.

Geek Park: Your colleagues say you may be a stress-prone person.

Kyth: I think it could be a misunderstanding (laughs).

The small universe team | daily Courtesy of respondents

Geek Park: Then why are you always the last one to go?

Kyth: That's not good. Maybe I need to be more efficient (laughs). I think there may still be more things to focus on.

Geek Park: Do you have egos?

Kyth: I think there must be. It should be the feeling of swelling, it is not very good.

Geek Park: Does it contain some kind of ambition?

Kyth: I've never associated ego with ambition. But most of the time ego doesn't do much good, and the older you get, the harder it is to realize that the challenge is to keep it down.

Geek Park: How old are you? Your colleague said you wrote on WeChat 1999.

Kyth: They dug a pit for me. I'm actually very big, after 85.

Geek Park: How to press the ego?

Kyth: Don't be a frog at the bottom of the well as much as possible, and make more contact with your peers. And I think I am more in awe of the market, in awe of users, and in awe of people.

Geek Park: Do you feel like you have a talent for product managers?

Kyth: I really can't say there is. But to be honest, I'm a little more confident now than I was two years ago.

Geek Park: What do you think is the most satisfying feature of the small universe so far?

Kyth: I don't seem to have thought about it. Recently, however, the "voice comment" feature is something I want to do more strongly, because it amplifies the sense of surprise that listeners receive from the host.

Geek Park: Did Fudan Chinese experience, including the pursuit of beauty and thinking about the world, have any impact on you as a product manager?

Kyth: I think a lot. In the field of humanities and social sciences, you need to be exposed to a lot of pedigree knowledge, and the imprint on me is that I am used to exploring any one thing from the source of concepts. In addition, the humanities also let me experience what kind of people live in this world, and what their behavior and motivations are, which many people are reluctant to do now.

But that's the foundation of making a product, and you have to try to understand what the other person is thinking, or you can't make what the other person wants.

Geek Park: How to define the present of the small universe?

Kyth: I think the little universe is not yet an adult, and it is still in the stage of pimples. Haven't experienced much wind and waves. There is a sentence that can represent the state of the small universe I want to pursue, or temperament. That is, "the light boat has passed through the ten thousand heavy mountains.".

Geek Park: So poetic, is that your temperament?

Kyth: Probably not. Human temperament is still related to what people look like.

Geek Park: How to understand the temperament of the small universe?

Kyth: Understand for yourself (laughs).

(Duan Wanchen also contributed to this article.) ）

*Image source: Courtesy of the Small Universe Team

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