龔鵬程對話海外學者第九期：在後現代情境中，被技術統治的人類社會，隻有強化交談、重建溝通倫理，才能獲得文化新生的力量。這不是誰的理論，而是每個人都應實踐的活動。龔鵬程先生遊走世界，并曾主持過“世界漢學研究中心”。我們會陸續推出“龔鵬程對話海外學者”系列文章，請他對話一些學界有意義的靈魂。範圍不局限于漢學，會涉及多種學科。以期深山長谷之水，四面而出。
dr. omar adame-arana （奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納）
奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納（dr. omar adame-arana），the weizmann institute of science（以色列魏茨曼科學研究所化學與生物實體系）博士後研究員，2020 年至今。2011 年獲得墨西哥國立自治大學，實體學學士學位2014 年獲得墨西哥國立自治大學實體學碩士學位。
max planck institute for the physics of complex systems （馬克思·普朗克複雜系統）實體研究所、 博士、最優異學業成績畢業，曾任馬克思·普朗克複雜系統實體研究所博士後研究員 。
龔鵬程：奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納博士，您好，感謝您參與對話。首先，我想知道您在墨西哥學習研究多年後，是什麼原因促使您來到魏茨曼科學研究所的? 純粹是因為學術原因，還是有其他的，比如宗教和文化認同?
奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納：龔教授，您好。在我搬到墨西哥前，我住在德國，當時我正在德累斯頓技術大學攻讀實體學博士學位。我當時的伴侶，也就是現在我的妻子，她收到了以色列的一個研究小組的邀請，去當博士後研究員。在得知以色列該研究團體有很好的聲譽後，我自己也開始在以色列尋找博士後職位。魏茨曼科學研究所是以色列最有聲望的科學研究所之一，是以是一個很自然的選擇。這裡的科研環境非常宜人，還有幾位常駐的著名科學家。我工作的小組相對較小，但我的導師在行業内很有聲譽。我認為他是一個很好的導師，可以推動我的事業向前發展。到目前為止，情況也确實如此。在魏茨曼科學研究所工作也很友善，它提供了一些便利，包包覆房和非常良好的基礎設施。
hi dr. omar adame-arana, thank you for participating in the dialogue programme. firstly, i would like to know about what brought you to the weizmann institute of science after years studying and researching in mexico? is it purely due to academic reasons, or are there other reasons, like religion, cultural identity?
when i moved to mexico, i was based in germany where i was graduating as a phd in physics at the technical university of dresden. my partner, who is now my wife, received an offer to join a research group in israel as a post doctoral researcher. knowing that the research community in israel has a strong reputation, i started to look for postdoctoral positions in israel myself. the weizmann institute of science was a natural choice because it is one of the most prestigious science institutes in israel. the scientific environment is very pleasant, and the institute hosts several notable scientists. the group in which i work is relatively small, but my scientific supervisor is a well-known figure. i though the would be a great supervisor and would push my career forward, which so far has been the case. working at the weizmann institute of science is also convenient since it provides several benefits, including housing and a great infrastructure.
龔鵬程: 人們說學者都是世界公民，與出生地、民族國家相比，他們屬于一個學術共同體，而這個共同體對他們來說更象是一個真正的國家。你覺得這句話怎麼樣?
奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納：我部分同意這種說法。一方面，我同意科學界就像一個“國家”，我們都說着共同的科學語言，國籍是無關緊要的。而且，在我的研究合作中，有很多國家的人參與其中，且我最親密的朋友們也都是來自世界各地的學者。但另一方面，我注意到即使在科學領域也存在着跨國家的障礙。我工作過的兩個研究機構都由許多外籍學者組成。然而，我發現能夠成為朋友的圈子往往也都是由來自臨近地區的研究人員形成的。這并不是說這種情況每次都發生，但是可以看出，根據國籍聚集在一起是一種很普遍的現象。這可能是因為人們更強烈地認同來自自己地理區域的人，也可能是因為文化差異使完全混合的群體變得困難。但說實話，我真的不知道這背後的原因，這隻是我個人的一個觀察。
people say that scholars are world people, compare with birthplace, nation country, they belong to an academic community, and this community is more like a real country for them. what do you think of this saying?
i partly agree with the saying. on one hand, i agree that the scientific community is like a “country” as we all speak the common language of science, for which nationality is irrelevant. also, in my research collaborations there have been a large number of nationalities involved, and my closest friends are academics that come from all over the world. on the other hand, i have observed that even in science there exist barriers across countries. the two research institutes that i have worked in so far host a broad international community of academics. nevertheless, i could find that groups of friends are often formed between researchers coming from nearby geographical regions. this is not to say that it happens every time, but one can see that clustering of people according to their nationality is a wide spread phenomenon. this may be due to the fact that people identify themselves more strongly with people coming from their own geographical region, or it may be due to cultural differences that make it difficult to have fully mixed groups. but to be frank, i can’t really tell the reason behind this, it is just an observation.
龔鵬程： 您能把您在墨西哥的兩個研究所和在以色列的研究所介紹給我們嗎?在那裡工作最令人興奮的是什麼?
奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納：我在墨西哥國立自治大學的科學學院和實體研究所分别完成了我的大學和碩士學業。墨西哥國立自治大學是一個很棒的地方。來自墨西哥各地的人們來到墨西哥國立自治大學學習，它們的課程品質非常高。那裡是一個令所有人都感到舒适的地方，無關乎他們的出身，經濟地位，或性取向。那裡的校園也是很美的，它的實體研究所也是個工作的好地方。研究所的規模較大，聘請了100多名教授，研究課題廣泛。教授們對學生也都很友好。因為一件事讓我常常發自内心想念那個機構，我們在那兒有一個咖啡室，有很好的咖啡機和很棒的咖啡豆。我與朋友和同僚坐在那裡，留下了美好的回憶。時不時會有研究人員來和我們讨論各種各樣的話題，這對學生來說是鼓舞人心的。
畢業後，我搬到了德國的德累斯頓，在那裡的馬克斯·普朗克複雜系統實體研究所(mpi-pks)攻讀博士學位。這個研究所絕對提供了一個研究人員研究學術所需要的一切:一個舒适的工作場所，強大的計算資源，非常靠譜的it技術人員，以及一個由博士生和博士後研究員組成的國際社群。最令人興奮的部分是與馬克斯·普朗克分子細胞生物學和遺傳學研究所的實驗人員一起完成的跨學科工作。作為一名理論實體學家，我發現與生物學家讨論他們的實驗發展并參加他們的演講是令人興奮的。
我現在工作的魏茨曼科學研究所位于一個叫雷霍沃特的小城市。它有一個非常美的校園，很棒的學院設施，和極好的科學研究環境。但不幸的是，有好幾個月我都無法真正享受魏茨曼研究所提供的東西，因為我是在新冠疫情開始時來到這裡的。但現在，我研究的時間更充足了，常常參加研讨會和與同僚見面。雖然研究所規模很大，但我的小組的規模比馬克斯·普朗克研究所小，這對學生來說是件好事，因為他們可以花更多的時間和導師在一起。魏茨曼研究所令人興奮的事情之一是它的跨學科環境，在這裡你可以很容易地參加不同科學分支的課程，因為所有的建築都在步行距離内。
would you like to introduce the two research institutes in mexico and the institute in israel you are working with to us? what is the most exciting part of working there?
i did my undergraduate and master studies at the school of sciences and the institute of physics, both based at the national autonomous university of mexico. the national autonomous university of mexico is a wonderful place. people from all over mexico come to study at the national autonomous university of mexico and the quality of the lectures is very high. it is also a place where all kind of persons can feel comfortable, irrespective of their place of origin, economic status, or sexual orientation, and the campus is beautiful. the institute of physics is a great place to work. the research topics are broad since the institute is large, employing more than 100 professors. the professors are friendly with the students. one thing i really miss about that institute is that we had a great coffee room with an ice coffee machine and great coffee beans. i have good memories sitting there with friends and colleagues. from time to time a researcher would come and talk to us about all sort of topics, which for students is motivating.
after i graduated, i moved to dresden, germany, where i did my phd at the max planck institute for the physics of complex systems (mpi-pks). this institute provides absolutely everything a researcher needs to develop science: a comfortable place to work, powerful computational resources, great staff in charge of the it, and an international community of phd students and post doctoral researchers. for me the most exciting part was the interdisciplinary work done in conjunction with experimentalists at the max planck institute of molecular cell biology and genetics. as a theoretical physicist, i found it exciting to discuss with biologists on their experimental developments and attending their talks.
the weizmann institute of science, where i am working now, is located in a small city called rehovot. it has a gorgeous campus, great facilities, and the scientific environment is very good as well. unfortunately, for many months i could not really enjoy what the weizmann institute has to offer because i arrived at the weizmann institute when the covid pandemic began. but now,i spend more time there, attending seminars and meeting colleagues in person. although the institute is large, the groups are smaller than at the max planck institute, which is great for students as they can spend more time with their supervisor. one of the exciting things of the weizmann institute is its interdisciplinary environment. you can easily attend courses about different branches of science as all the buildings are in walking distance from each other.
龔鵬程: 您現在的研究是什麼?
奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納：我的研究領域是生物實體學。這意味着我用實體理論來解釋活細胞内的生物機制。在我的工作中，我經常與做實驗的生物學家合作，因為他們需要定量理論來了解他們的資料。實體學有助于了解生物現象，而這就是我的切入點。例如，通過實體理論，我們可以了解活細胞内部的組織結構。細胞由各種成分組成，其中包括蛋白質和dna。在過去的20年裡，已經證明蛋白質會分離。這個過程類似于水和油混合後分離的過程。蛋白質分裂成所謂的無膜細胞器，在細胞内執行不同的功能。在我的研究中，我建立了實體模型來解釋這些細胞器的拼裝過程。目前，我正在開發研究染色質組織的模型，染色質是由dna群組成染色體的組蛋白組成的纖維。值得注意的是，分離的實體過程似乎與活細胞中遺傳物質的組織密切相關。在未來，我計劃研究無膜細胞器的特殊實體特性，如極低的表面張力。
what are your research interests and area?
my research area is classified as biophysics. this means that i use physical theories to explain biological mechanisms within living cells. in my work i often collaborate with biologists who perform experiments and require a quantitative theory to make sense of their data. physics helps to understand biological phenomena and that is where i come into the picture. for example, with physical theories we can understand the organization of the interior of living cells. cells consist of various components that include, among others, proteins and dna. in the past two decades, it has been shown that proteins phase separate. this process is similar to how water and oil separate from each other after you mix them together. proteins phases separate into so-called membrane-less organelles which perform distinct functions inside the cell. in my research,i develop physical models to explain the assembly of such organelles. currently, i am developing models to study the organization of chromatin, which is the fiber made of dna and histone proteins that makes up chromosomes. remarkably, the physical process of phase separation seems to be closely related to the organization of the genetic material in living cells. in the future, i plan to investigate the peculiar physical properties of membrane-less organelles such as their extremely low surface tension.
龔鵬程：您是否有過與中國學術機構或學者合作的經曆?如果有，感覺如何?如果沒有，您對未來有什麼期望?
奧馬爾·阿達姆-阿拉納：我在馬克斯·普朗克複雜系統實體研究所的團隊中有一個博士生來自中國。我記得有幾次我們一起吃午飯或喝咖啡。他總是很友好，喜歡問我關于墨西哥的問題。在德累斯頓，我還遇到了一位我經常聊天的中國博士後。我邀請她和其他一些朋友一起去德累斯頓附近的國家公園遠足，我相信她一輩子都會記得那一天。我們無意中走了一條很辛苦的徒步旅行路線。在徒步旅行中，我們需要爬上一些巨石，穿過狹窄的通道。當然，她那天的情緒依舊很好，像往常一樣和藹可親，但第二天她告訴我們，她渾身酸痛。我們對那一天有着美好的回憶。後來，我們成為了一篇研究論文的合作者，并發表在一家著名的期刊上。這次合作非常愉快。她一直非常投入在我們的研究中，對工作的貢獻是巨大的。作為數值方法方面的專家，她開發了一個計算程式來解決一組複雜的方程。我以後肯定還會和她合作。
目前在魏茨曼研究所有許多來自中國的研究人員。然而，由于我們在不同的研究領域工作，一直沒有機會進行交流。
在未來，我希望能認識更多的中國學者。中國的科學正在快速發展，中國學者遍布世界各地。如果有一天我成為一名教授，我想通路中國的大學，邀請中國的學者進行研究通路。
have you had any experiences in working with chinese academic institutes or scholars? if you have, what was it like? if not, do you have any expectation in the future?
one of the phd students in my group at the max planck institute for the physics of complex systems was from china. i remember the few times that we had lunch or coffee together. he was
always very nice and liked to ask me questions about mexico. in dresden i also met a chinese postdoc with whom i used to chat often. i invited her, together with some other friends, for a hike in a national park near dresden, and i am sure she’ll remember that day for the rest of her life. we took inadvertently a difficult hiking path that was physically exhausting. during the hike we needed to climb some boulders and pass-through narrow passages. she was of course always in good spirits and as kind as ever, but the next day she let us know that her whole body was sore. we have good memories of that day together. later we became collaborators on a research paper that we published in a reputed journal.the collaboration was very pleasant. she was always very committed to our research and her contribution to the work was great. as an expert in numerical methods, she developed a computational program to solve a complicated set of equations. i would definitely be collaborating with her again in the future.
currently at the weizmann institute there are many researchers from china. however, we have not had the chance to interact as we work in different research areas.
in the future i hope to get to know more chinese academics. science in china is being developed at a rapid pace and chinese academics are everywhere in the world. if i become one day a professor, then i would like to visit chinese universities and to invite chinese academics for research visits.
龔鵬程
龔鵬程，1956年生于台北，台灣師範大學博士，當代著名學者和思想家。著作已出版一百五十多本。
辦有大學、出版社、雜志社、書院等，并規劃城市建設、主題園區等多處。講學于世界各地。并在北京、上海、杭州、台北、巴黎、日本、澳門等地舉辦過書法展。現為美國龔鵬程基金會主席。