龚鹏程对话海外学者第九期：在后现代情境中，被技术统治的人类社会，只有强化交谈、重建沟通伦理，才能获得文化新生的力量。这不是谁的理论，而是每个人都应实践的活动。龚鹏程先生遊走世界，并曾主持过“世界汉学研究中心”。我们会陆续推出“龚鹏程对话海外学者”系列文章，请他对话一些学界有意义的灵魂。范围不局限于汉学，会涉及多种学科。以期深山长谷之水，四面而出。
dr. omar adame-arana （奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳）
奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳（dr. omar adame-arana），the weizmann institute of science（以色列魏茨曼科学研究所化学与生物物理系）博士后研究员，2020 年至今。2011 年获得墨西哥国立自治大学，物理学学士学位2014 年获得墨西哥国立自治大学物理学硕士学位。
max planck institute for the physics of complex systems （马克思·普朗克复杂系统）物理研究所、 博士、最优异学业成绩毕业，曾任马克思·普朗克复杂系统物理研究所博士后研究员 。
龚鹏程：奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳博士，您好，感谢您参与对话。首先，我想知道您在墨西哥学习研究多年后，是什么原因促使您来到魏茨曼科学研究所的? 纯粹是因为学术原因，还是有其他的，比如宗教和文化认同?
奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳：龚教授，您好。在我搬到墨西哥前，我住在德国，当时我正在德累斯顿技术大学攻读物理学博士学位。我当时的伴侣，也就是现在我的妻子，她收到了以色列的一个研究小组的邀请，去当博士后研究员。在得知以色列该研究团体有很好的声誉后，我自己也开始在以色列寻找博士后职位。魏茨曼科学研究所是以色列最有声望的科学研究所之一，因此是一个很自然的选择。这里的科研环境非常宜人，还有几位常驻的著名科学家。我工作的小组相对较小，但我的导师在行业内很有声誉。我认为他是一个很好的导师，可以推动我的事业向前发展。到目前为止，情况也确实如此。在魏茨曼科学研究所工作也很方便，它提供了一些便利，包括住房和非常良好的基础设施。
hi dr. omar adame-arana, thank you for participating in the dialogue programme. firstly, i would like to know about what brought you to the weizmann institute of science after years studying and researching in mexico? is it purely due to academic reasons, or are there other reasons, like religion, cultural identity?
when i moved to mexico, i was based in germany where i was graduating as a phd in physics at the technical university of dresden. my partner, who is now my wife, received an offer to join a research group in israel as a post doctoral researcher. knowing that the research community in israel has a strong reputation, i started to look for postdoctoral positions in israel myself. the weizmann institute of science was a natural choice because it is one of the most prestigious science institutes in israel. the scientific environment is very pleasant, and the institute hosts several notable scientists. the group in which i work is relatively small, but my scientific supervisor is a well-known figure. i though the would be a great supervisor and would push my career forward, which so far has been the case. working at the weizmann institute of science is also convenient since it provides several benefits, including housing and a great infrastructure.
龚鹏程: 人们说学者都是世界公民，与出生地、民族国家相比，他们属于一个学术共同体，而这个共同体对他们来说更象是一个真正的国家。你觉得这句话怎么样?
奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳：我部分同意这种说法。一方面，我同意科学界就像一个“国家”，我们都说着共同的科学语言，国籍是无关紧要的。而且，在我的研究合作中，有很多国家的人参与其中，且我最亲密的朋友们也都是来自世界各地的学者。但另一方面，我注意到即使在科学领域也存在着跨国家的障碍。我工作过的两个研究机构都由许多外籍学者组成。然而，我发现能够成为朋友的圈子往往也都是由来自临近地区的研究人员形成的。这并不是说这种情况每次都发生，但是可以看出，根据国籍聚集在一起是一种很普遍的现象。这可能是因为人们更强烈地认同来自自己地理区域的人，也可能是因为文化差异使完全混合的群体变得困难。但说实话，我真的不知道这背后的原因，这只是我个人的一个观察。
people say that scholars are world people, compare with birthplace, nation country, they belong to an academic community, and this community is more like a real country for them. what do you think of this saying?
i partly agree with the saying. on one hand, i agree that the scientific community is like a “country” as we all speak the common language of science, for which nationality is irrelevant. also, in my research collaborations there have been a large number of nationalities involved, and my closest friends are academics that come from all over the world. on the other hand, i have observed that even in science there exist barriers across countries. the two research institutes that i have worked in so far host a broad international community of academics. nevertheless, i could find that groups of friends are often formed between researchers coming from nearby geographical regions. this is not to say that it happens every time, but one can see that clustering of people according to their nationality is a wide spread phenomenon. this may be due to the fact that people identify themselves more strongly with people coming from their own geographical region, or it may be due to cultural differences that make it difficult to have fully mixed groups. but to be frank, i can’t really tell the reason behind this, it is just an observation.
龚鹏程： 您能把您在墨西哥的两个研究所和在以色列的研究所介绍给我们吗?在那里工作最令人兴奋的是什么?
奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳：我在墨西哥国立自治大学的科学学院和物理研究所分别完成了我的本科和硕士学业。墨西哥国立自治大学是一个很棒的地方。来自墨西哥各地的人们来到墨西哥国立自治大学学习，它们的课程质量非常高。那里是一个令所有人都感到舒适的地方，无关乎他们的出身，经济地位，或性取向。那里的校园也是很美的，它的物理研究所也是个工作的好地方。研究所的规模较大，聘请了100多名教授，研究课题广泛。教授们对学生也都很友好。因为一件事让我常常发自内心想念那个机构，我们在那儿有一个咖啡室，有很好的咖啡机和很棒的咖啡豆。我与朋友和同事坐在那里，留下了美好的回忆。时不时会有研究人员来和我们讨论各种各样的话题，这对学生来说是鼓舞人心的。
毕业后，我搬到了德国的德累斯顿，在那里的马克斯·普朗克复杂系统物理研究所(mpi-pks)攻读博士学位。这个研究所绝对提供了一个研究人员研究学术所需要的一切:一个舒适的工作场所，强大的计算资源，非常靠谱的it技术人员，以及一个由博士生和博士后研究员组成的国际社区。最令人兴奋的部分是与马克斯·普朗克分子细胞生物学和遗传学研究所的实验人员一起完成的跨学科工作。作为一名理论物理学家，我发现与生物学家讨论他们的实验发展并参加他们的演讲是令人兴奋的。
我现在工作的魏茨曼科学研究所位于一个叫雷霍沃特的小城市。它有一个非常美的校园，很棒的学院设施，和极好的科学研究环境。但不幸的是，有好几个月我都无法真正享受魏茨曼研究所提供的东西，因为我是在新冠疫情开始时来到这里的。但现在，我研究的时间更充足了，常常参加研讨会和与同事见面。虽然研究所规模很大，但我的小组的规模比马克斯·普朗克研究所小，这对学生来说是件好事，因为他们可以花更多的时间和导师在一起。魏茨曼研究所令人兴奋的事情之一是它的跨学科环境，在这里你可以很容易地参加不同科学分支的课程，因为所有的建筑都在步行距离内。
would you like to introduce the two research institutes in mexico and the institute in israel you are working with to us? what is the most exciting part of working there?
i did my undergraduate and master studies at the school of sciences and the institute of physics, both based at the national autonomous university of mexico. the national autonomous university of mexico is a wonderful place. people from all over mexico come to study at the national autonomous university of mexico and the quality of the lectures is very high. it is also a place where all kind of persons can feel comfortable, irrespective of their place of origin, economic status, or sexual orientation, and the campus is beautiful. the institute of physics is a great place to work. the research topics are broad since the institute is large, employing more than 100 professors. the professors are friendly with the students. one thing i really miss about that institute is that we had a great coffee room with an ice coffee machine and great coffee beans. i have good memories sitting there with friends and colleagues. from time to time a researcher would come and talk to us about all sort of topics, which for students is motivating.
after i graduated, i moved to dresden, germany, where i did my phd at the max planck institute for the physics of complex systems (mpi-pks). this institute provides absolutely everything a researcher needs to develop science: a comfortable place to work, powerful computational resources, great staff in charge of the it, and an international community of phd students and post doctoral researchers. for me the most exciting part was the interdisciplinary work done in conjunction with experimentalists at the max planck institute of molecular cell biology and genetics. as a theoretical physicist, i found it exciting to discuss with biologists on their experimental developments and attending their talks.
the weizmann institute of science, where i am working now, is located in a small city called rehovot. it has a gorgeous campus, great facilities, and the scientific environment is very good as well. unfortunately, for many months i could not really enjoy what the weizmann institute has to offer because i arrived at the weizmann institute when the covid pandemic began. but now,i spend more time there, attending seminars and meeting colleagues in person. although the institute is large, the groups are smaller than at the max planck institute, which is great for students as they can spend more time with their supervisor. one of the exciting things of the weizmann institute is its interdisciplinary environment. you can easily attend courses about different branches of science as all the buildings are in walking distance from each other.
龚鹏程: 您现在的研究是什么?
奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳：我的研究领域是生物物理学。这意味着我用物理理论来解释活细胞内的生物机制。在我的工作中，我经常与做实验的生物学家合作，因为他们需要定量理论来理解他们的数据。物理学有助于理解生物现象，而这就是我的切入点。例如，通过物理理论，我们可以了解活细胞内部的组织结构。细胞由各种成分组成，其中包括蛋白质和dna。在过去的20年里，已经证明蛋白质会分离。这个过程类似于水和油混合后分离的过程。蛋白质分裂成所谓的无膜细胞器，在细胞内执行不同的功能。在我的研究中，我建立了物理模型来解释这些细胞器的拼装过程。目前，我正在开发研究染色质组织的模型，染色质是由dna和组成染色体的组蛋白组成的纤维。值得注意的是，分离的物理过程似乎与活细胞中遗传物质的组织密切相关。在未来，我计划研究无膜细胞器的特殊物理特性，如极低的表面张力。
what are your research interests and area?
my research area is classified as biophysics. this means that i use physical theories to explain biological mechanisms within living cells. in my work i often collaborate with biologists who perform experiments and require a quantitative theory to make sense of their data. physics helps to understand biological phenomena and that is where i come into the picture. for example, with physical theories we can understand the organization of the interior of living cells. cells consist of various components that include, among others, proteins and dna. in the past two decades, it has been shown that proteins phase separate. this process is similar to how water and oil separate from each other after you mix them together. proteins phases separate into so-called membrane-less organelles which perform distinct functions inside the cell. in my research,i develop physical models to explain the assembly of such organelles. currently, i am developing models to study the organization of chromatin, which is the fiber made of dna and histone proteins that makes up chromosomes. remarkably, the physical process of phase separation seems to be closely related to the organization of the genetic material in living cells. in the future, i plan to investigate the peculiar physical properties of membrane-less organelles such as their extremely low surface tension.
龚鹏程：您是否有过与中国学术机构或学者合作的经历?如果有，感觉如何?如果没有，您对未来有什么期望?
奥马尔·阿达姆-阿拉纳：我在马克斯·普朗克复杂系统物理研究所的团队中有一个博士生来自中国。我记得有几次我们一起吃午饭或喝咖啡。他总是很友好，喜欢问我关于墨西哥的问题。在德累斯顿，我还遇到了一位我经常聊天的中国博士后。我邀请她和其他一些朋友一起去德累斯顿附近的国家公园远足，我相信她一辈子都会记得那一天。我们无意中走了一条很辛苦的徒步旅行路线。在徒步旅行中，我们需要爬上一些巨石，穿过狭窄的通道。当然，她那天的情绪依旧很好，像往常一样和蔼可亲，但第二天她告诉我们，她浑身酸痛。我们对那一天有着美好的回忆。后来，我们成为了一篇研究论文的合作者，并发表在一家著名的期刊上。这次合作非常愉快。她一直非常投入在我们的研究中，对工作的贡献是巨大的。作为数值方法方面的专家，她开发了一个计算程序来解决一组复杂的方程。我以后肯定还会和她合作。
目前在魏茨曼研究所有许多来自中国的研究人员。然而，由于我们在不同的研究领域工作，一直没有机会进行交流。
在未来，我希望能认识更多的中国学者。中国的科学正在快速发展，中国学者遍布世界各地。如果有一天我成为一名教授，我想访问中国的大学，邀请中国的学者进行研究访问。
have you had any experiences in working with chinese academic institutes or scholars? if you have, what was it like? if not, do you have any expectation in the future?
one of the phd students in my group at the max planck institute for the physics of complex systems was from china. i remember the few times that we had lunch or coffee together. he was
always very nice and liked to ask me questions about mexico. in dresden i also met a chinese postdoc with whom i used to chat often. i invited her, together with some other friends, for a hike in a national park near dresden, and i am sure she’ll remember that day for the rest of her life. we took inadvertently a difficult hiking path that was physically exhausting. during the hike we needed to climb some boulders and pass-through narrow passages. she was of course always in good spirits and as kind as ever, but the next day she let us know that her whole body was sore. we have good memories of that day together. later we became collaborators on a research paper that we published in a reputed journal.the collaboration was very pleasant. she was always very committed to our research and her contribution to the work was great. as an expert in numerical methods, she developed a computational program to solve a complicated set of equations. i would definitely be collaborating with her again in the future.
currently at the weizmann institute there are many researchers from china. however, we have not had the chance to interact as we work in different research areas.
in the future i hope to get to know more chinese academics. science in china is being developed at a rapid pace and chinese academics are everywhere in the world. if i become one day a professor, then i would like to visit chinese universities and to invite chinese academics for research visits.
龚鹏程
龚鹏程，1956年生于台北，台湾师范大学博士，当代著名学者和思想家。著作已出版一百五十多本。
办有大学、出版社、杂志社、书院等，并规划城市建设、主题园区等多处。讲学于世界各地。并在北京、上海、杭州、台北、巴黎、日本、澳门等地举办过书法展。现为美国龚鹏程基金会主席。