By Paul Dallas
Translator: Issac
Proofreading: Easy two three
Source: Reverse Shot (February 22, 2016)
Jia Zhangke is a modest and gentle person, and may not be like the kind of international director who is gradually and inevitably becoming a character in the future. In 2015, the Toronto International Film Festival set up a new section called "Platform" to pay tribute to his 2000 masterpiece "Platform", a move that measured the director's status. As a member of the jury, the director also participated in the North American premiere of his latest film, Mountains and Rivers. At the full screening, he sincerely thanked the audience for their enthusiasm, and at the same time seemed eager to leave.
The Old Man of Mountains and Rivers (2019)
For Jia Zhangke, attracting attention is a useful and dangerous thing. As an authoritative recorder of contemporary China's ills, he knows that striking a balance between high-profile and low-key is part of an unwritten deal between him and the always-wary Chinese authorities. Maintaining this balance allows him to keep making movies, even if he's dealing with surprising subjects.
His 2013 film Destined to Be, based on recent headlines in China, tells a series of brutal retribution violence stories in a straightforward way. It's a thrilling, serious and grim film — arguably its most angry and conflicting — and it bears witness to the director's prowess at his peak.
Destiny (2013)
"The Old Man of Mountains and Rivers" is the 11th work created by Jia Zhangke, and his creative style this time is completely different. In the film, emotion triumphs over politics; the film offers a bold romantic portrayal of an abnormal family, character-oriented, with social criticism incorporated into it. This can be interpreted as the director trying to get closer to the limit of acceptance. But like all his films, this one is unique.
Set against the backdrop of Jia Zhangke's hometown of Fenyang, "The Old Man of Mountains and Rivers" tells the power and limitations of maternal love. Divided into three parts spanning 26 years, the film is a fascinating film that combines drama, allegory and elements of near-future science fiction. In addition, this film is also to consolidate the director's acting career of Zhao Tao, who has always been his muse and his wife. Shen Tao, who she plays in the film, is an ambitious and morally ambiguous protagonist, and her outstanding performance becomes the emotional pillar of the film.
The story takes place in 1999, when she was in her twenties, caught up in the love struggle between the arrogant Zhang Jinsheng and the polite miner Liang Zi; time jumped to 2014, her marriage with Zhang Jinsheng had a crack, and the two also had a son Zhang Zhile; the film finally came to Australia in 2025. Zhang Zhile became a confused teenager living with his father, and he missed his mother who was not around.
Jia Zhangke plans to shoot his first martial arts film this year, set in the last years of the Qing Dynasty. During the New York Film Festival, he and I discussed "The Old Man of Mountains and Rivers" with me. Dressed in his signature black suit, accompanied by a very imposing translator, we talked about the intent behind the film. A few feet away sat Zhao Tao, concentrating on her smartphone. Her attention took a brief break and politely thanked me for rating her performance as one of the best performances of the year.
Reporter: This movie gives me the impression that you are the most personal. I wonder if you can talk about the origins of this project.
Jia Zhangke: This movie is related to my mother. Before retiring, she worked as a cashier in a state-run store. My father passed away in 2006 and she has been living alone in my hometown of Fenyang. Because I'm making movies, I rarely come home. When I visit her, I give her money, thinking it will help her live a better life, but I realize that it doesn't make her happy either, and what she really wants is to have a good time with me. That was a wake-up call for me. I began to realize that I was influenced by consumerism and the idea that money could solve everything.
Another source of inspiration for me was that I got older and became aware of the passage of time. I see this film as an opportunity to revisit human emotions and I have a lot of reflections on my past and present love. This experience gave me a new understanding. At the same time, I'm also observing the rapid development of China's economy and how technology is reshaping our value system. This has a big impact on the way we feel and love.
Reporter: The beginning and end of the film are in Fenyang. In between, we see all the characters leave, go through struggles, and then come back as completely different people.
Jia Zhangke: One of the themes of this film, and I think a lot of people will feel it, is this state of constant drift. In China, it is very common for people to leave their hometowns and wander the cities for a better life. Sometimes they drift abroad. That's why I decided to use my hometown as the starting point for the film. Not only is this the beginning of the story, but the town also represents a simpler way of life. The film juxtaposes this situation with the technologically advanced urban lifestyle, which is constantly evolving.
Reporter: The film is divided into three separate parts. From 1999 to 2014 and 2025, the image proportions contrasted with the characters' hopes and dreams. Can you talk about the film background over a 26-year time span?
Jia Zhangke: When talking about feelings and love, time is a crucial factor. Over time, relationships change and your understanding of your past changes. When you are young, people often see love as something very pure and sweet. But later in life, love will be deconstructed, sometimes even turned into a kind of bitterness. To express this trajectory in the narrative and to describe these changes in my character, I needed the film to travel through time. That's why I set up the "Past" section in 1999 and the "Now" section in 2014.
When I first started writing this film, I didn't plan to join the "future" part. It wasn't until I started developing the roles of Shen Tao and Zhang Zhile in the "Now" section that I began to wonder what would happen to them in the future. To le is such a passive role. A lot of decisions have been made for him.
Despite his privilege, he doesn't have much to say about what happened to him, such as his parents' divorce, his father's custody, or his later immigration to Australia. I can't help but wonder what the future will look like. Will he have the freedom his parents have worked so hard to ensure, or will he have to face obstacles? As Shen Tao's character gets older, I wonder if she can still love again. That's why I added the third part to the film.
Reporter: The film seems to blend different genres. In the "Future" section, it has elements of romantic comedy, family melodrama, and even science fiction. Is this a conscious choice of form?
Jia Zhangke: No, I didn't mean to mix different genres in this movie. It's true that romantic comedies and sci-fi will have different styles, but my goal is to tell a story that spans 26 years. Through these different stages of life, you can see everything from innocence in youth, where love is romantic, to challenges in adulthood, such as illness and death. I just want the story to proceed naturally. The different types are actually the way I organically present this emotional journey.
For me, 1999 was the moment when the internet and mobile phones became widespread, and it really began to change the way people express themselves. Today, we can recognize their profound impact on relationships and how these technologies control us in some way. I often wonder about its future, and the various problems it can cause. The most important thing for me is to observe as objectively as possible how these things have evolved over the course of 26 years.
Reporter: Zhao Tao's performance is amazing, and it has also become the emotional focus of the whole movie. However, the roles she plays are ambiguous and often confusing. For example, she chose the rich and arrogant Zhang Jinsheng instead of the poor and sincere Liangzi. We knew it wasn't going to work out well and she would end up lonely and miserable. However, we will still sympathize with her.
Jia Zhangke: When I first designed the storyline and organized the script, I had two different ideas for the character. The first is a young man around 25 years old. The second was the same person in early middle age, when she clearly revealed traces of time. In order for the audience to move from the first stage to the second stage, it is important that the role played by Zhao Tao is not a goddess or a saint, but a person with shortcomings, weaknesses, and will make wrong decisions.
I wanted to create a complex character. Her life experiences and the society around her told her. I think she's a very attractive character because she resonates easily. We all make choices in our lives, and we all pay for the decisions we make.
Reporter: After a long break, we saw Liang Zi again and found that he was terminally ill because he worked in the coal mine. It is clear that he represents the true human cost of China's rapid development.
Jia Zhangke: If you compare the Chinese life represented by "Mountains and Rivers" with "Platform" set in the late 1970s and early 1980s, it can be said that our economic situation is relatively good. At the same time, a large part of the population still does not benefit from this development and progress. Their reality remains poverty. They may never see any benefit in this "trickle-down" economic theory. In order for me to accurately portray reality, I have to show this situation. As a filmmaker, this is something I can't ignore. I also don't want to simplify these issues. But it's not just happening in China; it's also a global problem. Poverty is everywhere.
Reporter: As a family drama film, "The Old Man of Mountains and Rivers" gives people a feeling of both intimacy and epic. Are you trying to show the impact of china's development pressures on family relationships?
Jia Zhangke: In a way, the transformation that has taken place in China is unique. The pace of development is very fast. People don't have time to adapt to social and technological changes. This has created a situation where a large part of the population is simply not prepared for a sudden jump. I think you can see conflict in the way people choose to deal with their emotions – in some cases, they can't express their emotions.
At the same time, this is a global problem, and we are seeing it in other parts of the world. I'm not saying I'm only interested in analyzing China's social and economic context. I see it as part of the background. In this film, it is discussed as a natural by-product of focusing on these personalities and trying to understand their relationships over time.
Reporter: The film opens at a disco club, where people dance to the pet shop boy's song "Go West", and at the end of the film, Shen Tao sings and dances with the song alone. Can you talk about what this song means to you?
Jia Zhangke: For me, this song defined that era. The song was popular in disco clubs in the early 1990s. When that song sounds, we immediately dance hand in hand and in sync. For me, it captures a sense of optimism, I associate it with my youth and that era, and it talks about a sense of freedom. I liked it very much.
Can you talk about what the name of the movie means to you?
Jia Zhangke: The English literal translation of the title of Chinese is "mountain, river, old man". For many people who speak Chinese, it is a poetic phrase that resonates emotionally with them. The key is the third word, "therefore," which means "old." It takes a long time for someone to become an "old friend". Time is clearly a key element of the film. The English title has a similar role, and it is inspired by the phrase "mountains or keping, but love never changes".