Academician Zhu Bangfen: Create a small environment for students to "think wildly"

Text | "China Science News" reporter Chen Bin

Zhu Bangfen, data map

Zhu Bangfen, an academician of the Chinese Academy of Sciences and a professor of physics at Tsinghua University, has a small office, and books piled up everywhere occupy most of the room. When the reporter of "China Science Daily" walked into the office, he did not immediately find Zhu Bangfen who was working at the desk in the "pile of books".

"This kind of environment is more suitable for learning. He said.

Tsinghua University gave Zhu Bangfen a "small environment" suitable for learning. As a physicist, the core concept of the Tsinghua Physics Outstanding Talent Training Program over the years is also to create a "small environment" conducive to the future outstanding talents in physics to stand out.

In April 2023, Tsinghua University officially released the enrollment method of the "Climbing Plan" for the cultivation of physics talents, aiming to cultivate first-class innovative talents in physics and physics-based high-tech fields. This marks the official implementation of this talent training program proposed by Yang Zhenning, a Nobel laureate in physics and a professor at Tsinghua University, and led by Zhu Bangfen.

In September 2023, the first batch of 60 students of the "Climbing Program" officially enrolled and have now spent their first semester at Tsinghua Park.

"Through the 'Climbing Project', we hope to let some outstanding students get out of the inertia of brushing questions and getting high scores, so that they have time to look up at the stars, think about more in-depth questions, and even 'think wildly'. In an exclusive interview with China Science News, Zhu Bangfen, who is the chief professor of the "Climbing Project", said.

It is difficult to produce first-class innovative talents and scientific and technological innovation only by classroom teaching

China Science News: Before the launch of the "Climbing Plan", Tsinghua University already had a number of talent training programs on physics, what is the relationship between them?

Zhu Bangfen: It should be said that the "Climbing Plan" is a continuation of Tsinghua University's decades of physics talent training.

At the end of the last century, in order to strengthen the basic scientific research in the mainland, Mr. Yang Zhenning established the Center for Advanced Study at Tsinghua University. In line with the purpose of providing excellent graduate students for the center, four teachers from the Department of Physics and the Department of Mathematics of Tsinghua University proposed to the school to establish the basic science class of Tsinghua University (hereinafter referred to as the basic science class).

Now it seems that the talent training of the basic class is quite successful, and its characteristics can be summarized in four points.

First, Mr. Yang Zhenning once bluntly said that a considerable number of physicists in China tend to adopt a utilitarian and pragmatic attitude towards mathematics, thinking that mathematics can be used, and will not spend too much effort trying to think and solve problems with mathematician thinking. He believes that mathematics and physics are just different branches of the same branch, and should be given equal attention. Therefore, from the very beginning, the basic science class strengthens the cultivation of students' mathematics and physics abilities at the same time.

After laying the foundation, students in the basic science class can freely choose mathematics or physics in their sophomore year, as well as other disciplines in Tsinghua University, to continue their Xi studies. Among these directions, it can be biology and chemistry in the field of basic science, computer and electronics in the field of engineering, and even highly applied majors such as automotive engineering.

Second, in response to the widespread phenomenon of "not thinking about problems and not being able to do research" among domestic students at that time, the basic science class set up a special seminar course, allowing students to follow a teacher into the research group from the third year to actually observe how to do research and how to learn knowledge that they did not know before.

The aim is to equip students with what Mr. Yang calls an "osmosis" approach to learning Xi. In the past, students Xi accustomed to teachers systematically teaching one course at a time, and they systematically studied the Xi one textbook at a time, but in their actual work or research after graduation, they encounter more situations where they "meet on a narrow path" with problems. At this point, it is not possible for students to find books to start from scratch or go back to school to listen to a full lesson. Therefore, finding solutions when they encounter problems is the most important way for students to learn Xi.

Third, students have the freedom to choose. Students can choose any field of study according to their interests, and we encourage students to explore multiple fields and finally determine their interests. In terms of tutors, not only are all teachers in Tsinghua University available for them to choose from, but if students want to follow teachers from other universities or external research institutions, we will also try our best to help connect with them.

In this way, we provide students with full freedom of academic choice. During this time, students can change their research field and supervisor at any time. We may even encourage students to do so, because students should not decide their direction too early and dive headlong into areas that are not suitable for them or of little interest.

Fourth, we will also find ways to invite the best teachers from home and abroad.

Through the above measures, the basic science class has developed so far, and has cultivated a number of outstanding talents. By 2009, with the launch of the Mainland Basic Discipline Talent Enhancement Program, on the basis of the original exploration, we launched the Tsinghua Academy Physics Class (hereinafter referred to as the School Class).

The school class inherits a lot of basic science classes, but to a certain extent, it narrows the range of choices for students, after all, we want to cultivate top-notch talents in basic disciplines, if the students' interest is not in this, there is no need to stay in this program.

The school class also has some unique features. One of the most important things I think is that truly creative and outstanding talents cannot be cultivated by teachers alone. Therefore, we place special emphasis on schools, teachers, and students working together to create a good environment where some good seedlings are more likely to stand out.

What is a "good environment", I think there are the following main elements:

First, it is very important to have a group of good students, and these students can have strong "interaction"; second, there is a good style of study; third, there is a group of excellent tutors; fourth, there is an international vision; and fifth, there are relatively good software and hardware conditions.

One more point is particularly important. At present, students in domestic colleges and universities generally lack autonomy, because their courses are too full, the academic tasks are too heavy, and students are passively instilled with knowledge instead of actively learning Xi, and have no time to think about some important issues for them, such as what they should do in their lives, which field is more appropriate, and what are the unsolved and challenging problems in the field they are engaged in...... In short, coping with the homework assigned by the teacher all day long, and ignoring their own future development.

The mainland has always paid attention to teaching students according to their aptitude, but it is often the better the student, the more he is allowed to learn a little more courses, a little earlier, and a little more difficult to learn. And the teaching of the school class according to aptitude is - the better the student, the more relaxed the conditions must be given to him. For example, with my approval, they can waive the Xi of some courses, or they can replace another with one course. In this way, students can take the initiative to learn Xi and research.

Five questions for cultivating master-level talents

China Science News: Can it be said that the basic science class and the school class are a foundation and preparation before the launch of the "climbing plan"?

Zhu Bangfen: The idea of the "Climbing Project" originated in 2018. That year coincided with the 20th anniversary of the establishment of the basic science class, and the school class has been established for 10 years. So, we wanted to hold a forum to summarize past achievements and identify problems.

We feel good about what we have achieved over the years. For example, the Sloan Prize, known as the "weather vane" of the Nobel Prize, has won a total of 55 Tsinghua graduates as of 2023, including 23 graduates from the Department of Physics. In the first eight years of the new century, no one from the Department of Physics of Tsinghua University won the award; in the second eight years, four people from the Department of Physics won the award; in the third eight years, the number of winners reached eight, and the progress was obvious.

In this regard, we are a little "complacent". However, Mr. Yang Zhenning was not satisfied. In his mind, the so-called "first-class outstanding talents" are to lead the world's scientific and technological trends, and even benchmark against the Nobel Prize. Obviously, our talent training has not yet reached this level.

In fact, over the years, I've felt that there are some deep-seated issues that need to be addressed in order to train master-level talent and world-class leaders in technology.

China Science News: What are the deep-seated problems you are referring to?

Zhu Bangfen: I sorted out five such questions.

The first problem is the interference of the atmosphere of quick success. At present, the domestic science and education field is very impetuous at many levels, and people can't bear to be lonely. As a result, students pursue degrees and credits more than academics. It is a good thing for qualified outstanding undergraduates to try scientific research, but some students are anxious to enter a teacher's research group as soon as they enter the university, thinking about how to "publish articles". However, it is useless to "post an article" in order to concoct a glossy resume.

As early as when I founded the school class, someone asked me - why do you choose students to open the school class when the students of Tsinghua University are good enough?

We have seriously considered this question. In fact, if the surrounding environment is not so quick to achieve quick success, there is really no need to open a school class. However, it is precisely because of the current impetuous atmosphere that many students only think about finding a good job and a good income in the future. Compared with engineering students, it is more difficult for students in the field of basic research to find a "good position" after graduation, and it is even more difficult for them to settle down to engage in basic research. From this point of view, in a school like Tsinghua University, which is known for its engineering expertise, "basic research" is more like a "disadvantaged group".

Through the academy class, we hope to bring together a group of students who are interested in the field of basic discipline research, learn from each other and encourage each other, so that they can calm down and sit down in an impetuous environment. This is the core consideration of our school class, that is, to create a good environment.

At present, the small environment we have created in the school is okay, but the students will eventually graduate, and whether they can continue to "be quiet and far-reaching" after leaving the school, and do first-class exploration in basic research or high-tech fields based on basic science, is still a problem that we need to further solve.

In this regard, the "Climbing Project" aims to strengthen the general education to enable our students to think critically and critically, and to form the value of a whole personality.

The second problem arises from certain elements of our cultural and educational traditions that are not conducive to innovation. Chinese education tends to be homogeneous and standardized, and Chinese culture advocates collectivism and discourages the individual's "independent spirit and free thought". This is very conducive to the construction of large projects and technical research, but it is not conducive to the exertion of individual originality.

The original innovation of basic science (the so-called "from 0 to 1") relies more on the free exploration of individuals, giving full play to their imagination and initiative, so they need a tolerant environment; In this regard, the strengths and weaknesses of mainland education are obvious. According to Mr. Yang, our education model is better for students with a score of around 80, and the American education model is more beneficial for students with a score of 90 or more.

We need to explore ways to allow a group of the most talented people to have a more relaxed space to "think wildly" and even "deviate from the norm" on the basis of maintaining the advantages of traditional education.

The third problem is the lack of world-class mentors. The role of a true first-class master in the growth of students is not mainly reflected in the transfer of knowledge, but in the cultivation of students' thinking style and academic taste, and in guiding students to choose research fields and directions.

A teacher's academic taste directly affects the growth of students. For example, if the teacher has low taste and thinks that recruiting students to come in requires work and articles, and the more the better, this will undoubtedly harm the students. The reason why many masters are called "first-class" is that they can make students know what is good and what is bad, which directly affects whether students can find some unique problems when engaging in research, and whether they can judge what problems are important or meaningful.

Although we have many excellent teachers, on the whole, their vision is still relatively narrow, and there are very few people who can reach the height of Mr. Yang's view. However, since our goal is to cultivate the world's top talents, we must have extremely high requirements for the academic vision and academic taste of our teachers. We still fall short in this area.

The fourth issue is the current issue of international exchanges. To become a world-class academic master, it is necessary to communicate regularly with scientists who are leading in their field of research. Although some things can be made in retreat, academic research still needs to be exchanged, and more importantly, it needs to discuss with each other, and even argue and promote each other. We should take the lessons of the Soviet Union in the field of information technology and life sciences as a warning.

The fifth problem is that with the advent of the era of artificial intelligence, colleges and universities must implement a series of in-depth reforms in teaching.

The above five issues must be addressed when we train the world-class masters in Mr. Yang's mind. The "Climbing Project" is an important starting point for solving these problems. We need a new platform to explore how to solve these problems, after all, none of them will be simple.

High school Xi can't just "look backwards"

Some media analyzed the list of candidates for the first "Climbing Plan" and found that many students had only won provincial awards in Olympiads and other competitions, and they were given preferential policies of lowering the first line, and pointed out that there was no phenomenon that the enrollment targets were excessively concentrated in gold and silver medal candidates. What do you think about this?

Zhu Bangfen: At present, there is a very bad tendency in high school education, that is, the phenomenon of students doing questions and brushing questions is serious. Especially in the third year of high school, students hardly learn any new knowledge for a whole year, but are "addicted" to doing all kinds of mock test papers all day long, and some schools even do this in the second year of high school.

Although this practice can enable students to improve their scores in the college entrance examination, after a year of brushing questions, students' thinking will be solidified, and even boredom in Xi.

Internationally, outstanding high school students in some countries tend to learn a lot Xi new things "forward", but we spend more than a year Xi and "look backwards". Repeatedly honing problem-solving skills on the knowledge they have already learned has a very negative impact on some gifted children.

Therefore, we want to use the "Climbing Plan" to guide some outstanding students in the second and third years of high school not to worry about test scores, but to focus on thinking about some more in-depth problems.

Of course, the college entrance examination is still necessary, after all, this is a comprehensive assessment of students, but as long as it reaches the first line, it has already explained the ability and quality of students. As for other abilities, we need to screen them through written tests and interviews organized by ourselves.

As for the Olympiad, on the one hand, the winners of the Olympiad are indeed very smart, and on the other hand, I have some opinions on the training model. Chinese high school students have won a lot of medals in the International Olympiad, and of course they are very good, but some of them are like sports gold medal winners, who have done a lot of "questions" under the training of coaches, and have done all kinds of questions.

Therefore, when admissions, we will use the Olympiad results as a reference, but not "only the Olympiad". In contrast, we trust our own judgment more.

China Science News: What do you focus on when conducting the written test and interview?

Zhu Bangfen: We will organize two written exams, the first written exam is somewhat similar to the Olympiad, which mainly tests the students' mastery of certain knowledge, and the second written exam is equivalent to a short course. For example, we will invite teachers to teach a few new lessons, and after the lectures, we will organize an exam to test the students' receptivity and thinking skills, and select suitable students for interviews.

What I value most is the interview, and the most important point of the interview is to keep asking questions, and go deeper and deeper into a topic until the student can't answer, so as to deeply test the student's depth of knowledge, thinking ability, response ability, etc. In my opinion, this is the best way to test students' abilities. Unfortunately, due to time and manpower constraints, there is often not enough time for interviews, which is also the most costly method.

Elite students need a challenging environment

China Science News: In the selection criteria of the "Climbing Plan", in addition to advocating science and excellent grades, it also specifically mentions that students should be physically and mentally healthy. In the training plan, the "Climbing Plan" also emphasizes the need to strengthen the general education of students. How do you think about this?

Zhu Bangfen: The reason why we attach importance to general education still stems from the thinking mentioned earlier - how can students calm down and think about some long-term issues and inspire them to find a path of self-development?

In my opinion, the first problem to be solved in general education is not how much to expand students' knowledge, but to guide students to think about what they want to do in this life and what their life goals are in the process of teaching, and on this basis, to understand different subjects. For example, when physics majors take some humanities courses, the important thing is not to learn the humanities, but to understand some of the core values of the humanities, the way of thinking of humanities scholars, and so on.

General education also needs to place special emphasis on the development of critical thinking in students. To this end, we will add a new general course of "critical thinking" to the teaching of the "Climbing Project". Nowadays, it is easy for students to acquire knowledge, but how to identify the authenticity of this knowledge and how to consider a popular theory is becoming more and more important.

In order to better understand the world and absorb the essence of human civilization, we will also offer a course on "History of World Civilization". Each academic year, 6 leading professors from the class are invited to share their understanding of academic careers. Students in the Climbing Program will also participate in the Xi of this course.

We will also further strengthen the guiding role of tutors, and especially emphasize that tutors should not only care about students' academic growth, but also serve as students' life mentors. We require that every student in the "Climbing Program" have a mentor who cares about him at the beginning of his or her enrollment. Even if the tutor's research field does not completely coincide with the student's academic development, the tutor still needs to guide the student's personality and learning. This responsibility continued until the student left Tsinghua University.

China Science News: The "Climbing Plan" has realized the integration of high school education and graduate education by selecting students at the high school level and organically integrating undergraduate and graduate professional courses. In recent years, represented by direct doctorate, bachelor's, master's and doctor's degree continuous study, domestic colleges and universities have tried to cultivate students in a thorough way. In this regard, do you think the "Climbing Program" has some features and advantages of its own?

Zhu Bangfen: Of course, through-based training is a good way to cultivate talents, but I am very opposed to the students I train must study Xi in our own school. In this regard, some schools have fallen into a misunderstanding, that is, students must stay in their own school, and they will lose their qualifications when they go to other schools. I beg to differ.

The reason is simple - a student Xi who has studied and lived in a single environment for 4 years and is familiar with the surrounding environment and even the content of the Xi, he will naturally feel comfortable, but he will also lose the challenge and freshness. To put it more bluntly, students become inert. This means that they should "go out".

In this regard, students do not need to pay too much attention to the ranking of the target school. The key to "going out" lies in the teacher, and if a teacher in the student's field does a good job, the student should follow him to do knowledge.

In the "Climbing Plan", we have planned several paths for students. For example, students can graduate with a bachelor's degree in four years and continue their Xi studies in other universities and research institutions, including going abroad for graduate studies, and can lay a solid foundation in mathematics and physics in the first two years, and choose the field and direction according to their own interests in the third year, and finally find a development path that suits them. Of course, students can also study at Tsinghua University all the way to their PhDs.

During this period, we will closely integrate cutting-edge disciplines such as chips, information, materials, and energy to create a talent training system with a clear direction, a clear path, and close cohesion.

In conclusion, the better the student, the more they need a challenging environment, and only by feeling the pressure can they progress faster. Adapting too much to an environment, or even being the "boss" in an environment, is very detrimental to the growth of students.

Take the master's original work as a "mentor"

China Science News: Looking back on Mr. Yang Zhenning and your academic growth path, what experiences can you share with college students?

Zhu Bangfen: As I mentioned earlier, we lack the guidance of first-class masters in talent training. In response to this question, I have had an exchange with Mr. Yang Zhenning.

In terms of academic vision and guidance to students, Mr. Yang undoubtedly has a world level, and can even be said to be the world's top, but at present, there is only one "Yang Zhenning" in the Department of Physics at Tsinghua University, not to mention that he is already a centenarian. However, in order to train students to become world-class masters, it is not enough to have insufficient standards, taste and style of tutors, how to solve this problem?

Mr. Yang once said, "I have been at Southwest Associated University for 7 years, and the most important influence on my life is my judgment of the whole physics and my 'taste'". So, I asked Mr. Yang - it is true that your tutor at Southwest Associated University was among the top in China at that time, but there was still a certain distance from the world-class standard, so how did you form a taste for physics at Southwest Associated University?

After some thought, Mr. Yang told me that he had read a lot of research articles by physics masters at Southwest Associated University, including Einstein, Fermi, Dirac, etc. In the process, he not only paid attention to what problems these scholars put forward and solved in physics and what conclusions they reached, but more importantly, while reading, he carefully pondered why these scholars raised problems in this way, how they raised these problems, what ideas and methods they adopted in solving problems, and how they further popularized these conclusions after they obtained conclusions. He said that he would be very careful to figure out what these people were thinking, and not just about physics.

When he read a large number of articles by the masters in this way, he already had a basic idea of what kind of academic style these masters had. When he met these masters in the United States and communicated with them, he found that their way of thinking about problems was very similar to the concepts he had formed in his mind. This also laid the foundation for Mr. Yang to form his own academic style, which is a synthesis of the styles of Einstein, Fermi, and Dirac.

In the absence of world-class masters, Mr. Yang's Xi and way of thinking are very inspiring for students and even teachers to learn and Xi and teach, that is, when you read a book, you should think carefully about a lot of intangible things, and use the master's books as a "mentor" to establish your own thinking style.