When the twelve golden hairpins danced at the same time, the audience's eyes were so busy, "It's so beautiful, I can't see it at all." ”
A dance drama that gathers "half of the country" in the contemporary Chinese dance scene, perhaps only "Dream of Red Mansions" can. Sold Out - Extra - Sold Out - Return-Curtain Call-Return!
In 2023, the folk dance drama "Dream of Red Mansions" will be popular all over the Internet, which can be called the "top stream" in the dance drama industry, and has toured more than 100 performances so far, and it is still difficult to find a ticket everywhere it goes. At the end of the performance, the audience was still reluctant to leave the venue for a long time, and in some cities there were even as many as 8 curtain calls.
Behind the popular style, there is a young team. Li Xing and Li Chao, two young dance artists and young directors, use imaginative and innovative choreography to inject unique modern meaning into the play, and the meaning of women's life is the core idea that this version of Dream of Red Mansions wants to convey.
In terms of the presentation of the dance drama, it breaks the conventional narrative technique and adopts the characteristics of traditional chapter-hui novels, which are divided into 12 chapters: "Entering the House", "Fantasy", "Sour", "Provincial Family", "Garden", "Funeral Flowers", "Lantern Festival", "Losing Jade", "Chongxi", "Reunion", "Flower Burial" and "Returning to the Great Wilderness", which are independent and connected in series, showing the deep relationship between personal fate and family in the aesthetic atmosphere of seeing flowers in the fog.
"Dream of Red Mansions", created from the aesthetic perspective of young people, attracted a large number of young audiences into the theater and won the 13th Chinese Dance "Lotus Award" Dance Drama Award.
At the age of 33, Li Chao felt lucky to meet a theme like "Dream of Red Mansions". But Li Chao was not born out of nowhere, in recent years, he has been out of the circle of works, and his dance dramas "Du Fu" and "Mulan" have won the Chinese dance "Lotus Award", among which the excerpt of the dance drama "Du Fu" "Beauty Walk" has received more than 100 million hits on the Internet. It's just that he is Xi to hide himself behind the play and concentrate on creation.
How should the younger generation of creators touch the literary classics? With such questions, we chatted with Li Chao. On the day of the video interview, he was wearing a black T-shirt and a brown suit on his hand, "Do you need to wear this jacket?" he asked, "I don't know if your show chat is casual or formal." "He looked at us seriously, his eyes were dark and clear.
Although he has gone through hundreds of performances with the tour, when talking about "Dream of Red Mansions", Li Chao's eyes are red instantly, and he describes the creative process as 99% of the night, only 1% of the day.
Li Chao spoke very gently, and there was poetic romance in his words. "I want Dream of Red Mansions to become a work that I can't finish in my life. He said.
1
"Have a dream on stage"
Nandu Entertainment: The tour of the folk dance drama "Dream of Red Mansions" is sold out and popular, how do you feel as a director?
Li Chao: Actually, for a long time in the past, I couldn't talk about "Dream of Red Mansions" with the media and the audience in a particularly relaxed way, because the whole creative process was very hard and heavy, maybe because we were very young and very cautious when we got this theme, so that part of the creative process was very depressing for us, and now I am very happy to see it have such a result.
Nandu Entertainment: When you first made this work, did you think that it would go out of the circle and become a hit?
Li Chao: Impossible, I think it may be difficult to do a good job of all artistic creations if they can think of getting out of the circle, the market is not the main purpose of our creation, but more to express our artistic creation imagination. It's lucky to be able to encounter such a theme at such a young age, and you may not be able to encounter such a good subject again after many years, so we are very cautious and cherish.
Nandu Entertainment: What is the biggest challenge in adapting a masterpiece like "Dream of Red Mansions" into a dance work?
Li Chao: When I first got this theme, I was very happy, I was very happy, I felt that we were going to fly! When we actually started to create, we found that it was over, in the face of such a large subject matter, such a rich material library, how do we refine it? The first period began to collapse, I remember for three to five months, I have been sorting out what kind of way we use to make "Dream of Red Chambers", especially when most of China is more familiar with "Dream of Red Chambers", how do we get them to talk to "Dream of Red Mansions"?
At that time, I thought of a lot of plans and made a lot of drafts, and when I was finally combing through it, I felt that it was all "Dream of Red Mansions" in the established impression, and it had nothing to do with me. Then I was thinking about what the first picture of the stage was, when I had a certain amount of knowledge of "Dream of Red Mansions", you would find that what touched me the most were the characters, the stories behind those characters, and the final direction of their fate, always made me feel sorry, and at that time I entered a very heavy creative mode.
Nandu Entertainment: At what moment did you decide to use the twelve golden hairpins as the main line?
Li Chao: I used to be a dancer, and the first way to think about creation is empathy. One day I had a dream, I dreamed that Daiyu came out of the red curtain in the theater, the curtain was not big, just a little, suddenly the music in the dream sounded, the picture began to move by itself, after getting up, I quickly called the stage designer, I said I want a curtain, I don't know what scene this dance drama will start from, but there is a picture I want a red curtain, Lin Daiyu is in the mouth of the curtain, it is not a funeral flower flying in the sky, or countless petals are blown out of the small door of the curtain, and then she turned around and left.
After having the relationship with the curtains, I thought that it would be better for me to have a dream on the stage, so I found the director's objective perspective, that is, I gently lifted the curtains and quietly pushed the screen, on top of this gluttony, invited the girls back, and let them tell their own stories.
It's just that as a director, we willfully made a reunion for ourselves and Jia Baoyu in the whole play, because there was no reunion in the original book. We think that the Chinese have this kind of feeling, and when I slowly go deeper into this subject, I especially longed for that reunion.
With the reunion, when I came to the end of the wilderness, the white snow reminded me of the white flowers on the stage, so we had 12 round stools, 12 seats, 12 bouquets of flowers, faded all the colors on the stage, and a scene on the empty stage was like a flower funeral ceremony for the 12 girls, and it was also given to the 12 actresses who interpreted the twelve golden hairpins.
Nandu Entertainment: I like flower burials very much.
Li Chao: Thank you. Because of the flower burial, we got a very two-sided evaluation. But that's also good, that's what art is.
Nandu Entertainment: Yes, I remember that after the first tour, at the sharing session in Guangzhou, some viewers said that they felt that the flower burial part at the end was very separate from the front, and you also responded to this question at that time.
Li Chao: The flower burial part is a bit challenging the audience's Xi of watching in traditional works, and also challenges the imagination of the audience of "Dream of the Red Mansion" for "Dream of the Red Mansion". However, as young creators, we stand in the space of theater creation, not to complete literary works and traditional Chinese culture alone. Maybe thousands of years later, our culture today will become traditional culture again, and in the great process of the times, I think we have the responsibility and responsibility to take a step forward in creation, but in this kind of cherishing and respecting the traditional cultural theme, we have to take a step back and hide ourselves behind the play, and in the creation of our desires and ambitions must be shown to the audience.
Nandu Entertainment: At that meeting, you also said that you once considered whether to keep the flower burial when you were on the second tour, right?
Li Chao: The main thing is that the audience said that it was divided, I felt that I was divided, although Xing Xing (Li Xing) was younger than me, but he was a very resolute person, he said, Chao, I think since we have all thought of this, we don't want perfect characters, is every work we make a classic? What will be left to the audience is the flower burial, not the previous chapters.
Nandu Entertainment: How do you think young people today empathize with the classics of hundreds of years ago?
Li Chao: I don't think the word nostalgia, as well as the empathy for nationalism, heroism, and national culture, need to be told to him. Because I grew up in this soil, when I saw our Chinese characters and Chinese literary and artistic works in front of the Louvre, that feeling was the deepest love in everyone's bones and hearts. It's just that the Chinese are not good at expressing their love, but that kind of touch, it must be there. If you are right, suitable, and warm, I am sure that temperature will pass through his body.
2
"No dance is better than a dance"
Nandu Entertainment: Curious about how the roles of the twelve golden hairpins were determined, such as what do some characters such as Daiyu and Wang Xifeng look like in your mind?
Li Chao: Dance in the theater is a physical art, it is far away from the audience, the first thing is the matching of the actor's body texture with the role I imagined, such as Yan Chao's quietness, the keen texture on the stage, her sensitivity I think is suitable for Daiyu. There is also the character of the actor itself, which may be particularly open and cheerful in life, but standing on the stage will produce a change in texture, and we have many works with these actors in their lives, so I know what kind of texture they are good at expressing on stage.
When we deploy actors, we will also assign roles according to our best imagination and fit for them, like Teacher Gou Chanchan and Teacher Li Qian are our seniors, we want her to take on a big role in the play, she must not be afraid in the face of this era.
Nandu Entertainment: Did you surprise you with the presentation of the final actors?
Li Chao: In order to rehearse "Dream of Red Mansions", we have done a lot of drafts, and for example, there may be 6-7 drafts of the stage presentation version of the Yuan Concubine, but in the end, which draft to present may depend on the actors, the tone of the whole work, and the texture on the rehearsal ground. When they appeared in the rehearsal hall, everyone's preparation was beyond my imagination, just one word: cool! This is a very cool creative experience, when my description is accurate, I can see the embodiment of the texture of the actors and penetrate outward, that speed is surprising to me. Because I knew that all movements take time, especially dance, which requires a long time to repeatedly fix the texture on a person, but I didn't expect them to be able to show that degree of freedom quickly.
Nandu Entertainment: This is very happy.
Li Chao: I'm very happy! That kind of happiness is why I don't dare to talk about "Dream of Red Mansions" in the rehearsal hall, because I feel that this thing is too personal, and I cry every time I talk about "Dream of Red Mansions".
Nandu Entertainment: I have the idea of reading the creation of "Dream of Red Mansions" you wrote on Weibo, and you are really emotional.
Li Chao: Yes, maybe my creative mode and my performance mode are very immersive, so if I don't have that kind of physiological response, I can't bring the audience a physiological response.
Nandu Entertainment: What other particularly touching moments?
Li Chao: There are too many, I will always remember the rehearsal of the twelve golden hairpins, "Smack!" The moment the twelve girls looked back at me in a horizontal row, Li Xing and I both cried, the impact was too shocking.
Including the last flower burial, I remember thinking about a very plump Gui Bi Da Huang, Angelica Bi Da Huang music sounded, how all the girls died on this stage, I made countless attempts, and then I thought that I have 12 female dancers who are so good in China, why do I let them dance? The audience needs to leave the story, the 12 of them need to leave the role, and all of us dancers need to leave the stage at a turning point in their careers, so I let the 12 of them sit there quietly, let the music flow, turn around and take their 12 colors and leave the stage. Maybe they are the only ones who can present such a great wilderness.
Nandu Entertainment: You are very emotional when you are creating, but for the actors, you say that your requirements are extremely demanding.
Li Chao: Yes, because I am very demanding of myself, and this kind of harshness is that I must be highly immersed in this work to all the creators, staff, and actors around me, otherwise all the signals on them will make me feel "right?" and "is it accurate?"
Nandu Entertainment: That is to say, it is not the accuracy of the action, but a feeling?
Li Chao: In all the creation of dance dramas, we require accurate movements, because this is the first texture that the audience sees. But in this work, we not only require a high degree of overlap between the mentality of the actor and the character, but also require their restraint, that is, I don't let you dance, but it is better than dancing. Because of all the food and clothing in "Dream of Red Mansions", the aesthetic era of the late Ming and early Qing dynasties, including in Mr. Sun Wen's paintings, that posture is not allowed for actors to break that feeling, otherwise it will not be accurate.
Nandu Entertainment: Are there any regrets about making "Dream of Red Mansions"?
Li Chao: Just like everyone said, "Dream of Red Mansions that I can't finish reading in my life", I want "Dream of Red Mansions" to become a work that I can't finish in my life, I am willing, I won't imagine other works like this, but "Dream of Red Mansions" I can.
3
"Creation that retains sensuality in goods"
Nandu Entertainment: As a dancer, you have also won the gold medal in the dance competition before, what made you switch tracks to become a director?
Li Chao: Many people have told me that it's a pity that you don't dance, and I also like my strong side on the stage very much, so that when I started to become a choreographer, I couldn't change this kind of identity change for two years, I didn't stand in the spotlight anymore, I was lost in my heart, I seemed to be far away from the public, as if I was far away from the hard work and years of training, as if I was not the core character in creation, so what am I doing here.
Later, after every hysterical rehearsal, every piece that passed through my hands seemed to become a guarantee of quality, and this recognition was more satisfying than the simple applause I received on stage. Because it's not your personal excellence, but the greatness of this work, that kind of satisfaction will be more direct.
In fact, on the big stage in the world, the creator and the performer are one, and I think I should integrate these labels together, and my creation is also my performance and my expression.
Nandu Entertainment: Have you summarized the stages of your dance career, including the stages of being a director, such as which work was a watershed in your creative career?
Li Chao: That's a very good question, and no one has asked it in many interviews. In the past, whether I was an actor or a creator, I was very happy because I liked to make up and write, I liked to jump and dance, and I took the initiative to complete my own creations emotionally. But later, when the creation becomes a commissioned work, a established work, as if the work has become a commodity circulating in the market, and I want to create for the commodity, it is a change in mentality, how can I maintain the previous creative state in the next kind of contract and cooperation?
So I didn't get into the creation of the next work so quickly, with my experience, I can definitely finish a work, but I want so many works like that to do something, I want to keep my best condition all the time, the way I like to work, so that I may not be lost. As you said earlier, I am very emotional, and that loss and cleanliness of the work will destroy me.
Later, I slowly found my own rhythm, and although the market has its demand, it is important for you to maintain your sensual creation in the product.
Nandu Entertainment: It's hard.
Li Chao: It's difficult, but you have to get closer to it infinitely.
Nandu Entertainment: Did you participate in the choreography and directing of the dance dramas "Du Fu" and "Mulan", and worked with Han Zhen and Zhou Liya, did it help you in your later creations?
Li Chao: I think I am a very lucky creator, I met Director Chen Weiya, Director Xing Shimiao, and Sister Zhenzhen Sister Liya in the first creation, we are like family, they took me step by step into creation, including the first creation, they are very protective of me, "Chao, when you are creating, the point where you make the action is very good, the point you give the action is very good, you want that, don't have more." "They gave me a sense of confidence that I was very free to create what I wanted without having to do what other people had to imagine.
At the same time, they have a very strict creative mode of traditional dance drama, when I have no concept of drama and logic, I can directly start to create, I can grow very quickly, and I have established my feelings about drama logic, stage logic, and space, and I also have the opportunity to create with excellent creators of the size of the national platform, which allows me to grow up quickly.
Nandu Entertainment: I think you have a very good mentality, I like your state very much, calmly, and have your own rhythm.
Li Chao: I can only do this, it seems that I have slowly found a way to be good at it, and I have tried to control it and do some other attempts, but I found that that kind of work consumes you for a day, and when you go back to create, your neurasm is so weak that you have no way to continue creating.
Nandu Entertainment: So I do my own subtraction.
Li Chao: Do subtraction, and I know that I am not a person with a lot of energy, I find that as I get older, my aura seems to gradually become smaller, but that ball will become more and more solid, more and more solid, and heavier.
4
"Every work has fallen into my life"
Nandu Entertainment: As a director, what do you think a good dancer looks like?
Li Chao: I think the first thing is talent, not to say that the word talent is used to erect a high wall to push away many people who are not talented, it is because art feels this thing, everyone's inner texture is different, you have to dig your own texture first, that is your talent, I believe that everyone's feelings about many things are different, just like Xie Xin has Xie Xin's talent, Yanchao has Yanchao's talent, we can't use a ruler to measure dancers, so everyone has to tap their own talent, use their own talent to create, Shaping so that I believe that everyone can be a good dancer.
Nandu Entertainment: What does a good dance work look like?
Li Chao: The first question I asked in the university interview was, "How does a good actor impress the audience?" I remember saying that you must first impress yourself in order to impress the audience, and a good work must be the pure expression of the artist. This kind of thing is what the audience can empathize with in the theater in the end, if all the answers are objective, I just read books and paintings, I have my objective perspective, why do I want to go into the theater? The special thing about theater is that it is different from any kind of existence of museums, spaces, reality, and immersive performances.
Nandu Entertainment: You also said that you need a good way of working at the same time, so what is a good way of working?
Li Chao: It's immersion. I've been saying this word over and over again, if you don't find the only accuracy, when the work can be both like that and so, then it's hard to be irreplaceable.
Nandu Entertainment: What do you think is the difference between dance, dance drama and dance theater?
Li Chao: To give a simple example, poetry, novels, and essays are different forms of literature, dance is more like a poem, dance drama is more like a novel, like a literary work, and dance theater is more like a poem.
Nandu Entertainment: In recent years, many dance dramas have frequently come out of the circle, what do you think of the development and changes of dance over the years?
Li Chao: Actually, I think dance has long been out of the circle, but in the past, there was a distance between dance and the public, and now in this era, everyone can directly get a lot of information through their mobile phones, "Dream of Red Mansions" out of the circle started from mobile phones, after a picture on our stage was uploaded to the Internet, it was spread by the audience's soundtrack, he used his own understanding to interpret a picture that he felt was exquisite, and the audience had a sense of participation, and promoted it on the Internet. Just in the big rhythm of the past few years, we are also encouraged to create traditional literary masterpieces, ancient poems and paintings, from such works to deepen, this kind of empathy is like the temperature of the Chinese heart has been stirred, is the result of the right time and place.
Nandu Entertainment: In the dance drama you participated in, if you chose a role, who would you most like to play?
Li Chao: Du Fu, I like Du Fu, because Du Fu's poems made me realize the greatness of this character, he can see heaven and earth, see all beings, and see himself below. His poems include "Boundless Falling Trees and Xiao Xiaoxia", his poems include "Beauty Walk on March 3rd", and then "Zhumen Wine and Meat Stink", but he can also see that "there are frozen bones on the road". As a creator, the character of Du Fu is full of too much charm for me.
Nandu Entertainment: So every work is also a process of absorbing nutrients for the creator?
Li Chao: Yes, it must have fallen into my life. I once told the actor that if you have experienced a work, and you don't have the appearance of this work on your face, it means that you haven't been here, and you can't create a good work, if there is no shadow of my past works on me, or my work does not have my shadow, it is not a creation.
Nandu Entertainment: Do you have a theme or genre that you particularly yearn for?
Li Chao: I especially want to make "The Rite of Spring", because I am an ethnic minority, and I want to make a "Rite of Spring" related to my ethnicity. I'm trying to create this dream happen, and I want me to have an artistic connection to my hometown.
"The Rite of Spring" is a contrast between a person and a huge social aspect, I once said three sentences, I made a work called "There is always a universe waiting for the earth to come home", and the second sentence is called "There is always an ocean waiting for the lighthouse to come home", but my "Rite of Spring", I hope it is: "There is always a mountain and river waiting for me to go home".
Written by: Nandu reporter Li Chunhua
Still: Jiangsu Grand Theatre Other photos provided by the interviewee