Interview with "The World" director Li Lu: "Any era is composed of small people as the denominator" 丨Film and television celebrities talk
In the TV series "The World", Zhou Zhigang, the head of the Zhou family, returned to his hometown from the third line after retirement, and the "light word film" of the combination of urban and rural areas. Even so, it is difficult for the family to reunite and make dumplings for the New Year. (Photo courtesy of the crew)
The TV series "The World" shows the "silent generation" and also plays the "silent generation".
It opens with China in 1969. In the urban-rural junction of Jichun City, the capital of a province in northeast China, a young man named Zhou Bingkun experienced two major events: first, he witnessed death row prisoners parading the streets and being shot, and one of them was a good buddy who worked together in the factory floor, and was deeply shocked; The second is that his father Zhou Zhigang is going to the "third line" to work as a mason to support the construction of the third line, and his brother Zhou Bingyi and his sister Zhou Rong also responded to the call to "go up the mountain and go to the countryside" and became a young man, leaving only the "old pimple" Zhou Bingkun and his mother to rely on each other. The trajectory of the family's life has changed dramatically.
The story unfolds over fifty years. The permanent residents of the "light character piece" and the five members of the Zhou family from the working class are the center of the story, and branches and vines radiate from it. In addition to the Zhou family, there are as many as 100 characters in "The World", outlining the "great rivers" of a generation.
The play is adapted from the writer Liang Xiaosheng Mao Dun Literature Award-winning novel "The World". When director Li Lu got this novel, "The World" had not yet won an award, and Li Lu was greatly moved after reading it and decided to adapt it into a TV series. His two previous masterpieces are the anti-corruption drama "In the Name of the People" and the rule of law drama "Circuit Procuratorial Group". Earlier, he was the deputy director of production of Nanjing Film Studio and the director of Jiangsu TV TV Drama Production Center.
Li Lu has ambitions to shoot TV series, and if he wants to shoot, he must shoot great works, and the little people in "The World" meet his definition of "great" in his heart.
After the project was decided, Li Lu asked Liang Xiaosheng to meet, and the first sentence of the meeting, he asked Liang Xiaosheng: Why write this novel? Liang Xiaosheng told him that it was just some personal feelings at first. Liang's father, a construction worker on the "Great Third Line," left home in the mid-1950s and returned every few years. Finally went home to visit relatives once, "Zhiqing" Liang Xiaosheng went to the countryside again, always missed with his father, and saw very few times. One of the reasons Liang Xiaosheng wrote "The World" was to make up for his lack of feelings, especially after his father's death, when he felt that he needed to pay tribute to that generation of workers with words.
The situation of Liang Xiaosheng's family is very similar to the Zhou family in "The World", during the "Cultural Revolution", his father went to the third line, Liang Xiaosheng and his eldest brother went to the countryside, and his mother, brother, sister and a little brother were left in the family. The older brother suffers from mental illness, and the younger brother takes on the burden of caring for the whole family. Zhou Bingkun in the play has the shadow of his little brother. "These young people who remain in ordinary working families in the cities are almost missing in our literature, dramas, films and television dramas, they are shown very little, they are a silent generation, so I will write a book for them." Liang Xiaosheng said in an interview.
Liang Xiaosheng also had questions about Li Lu, and he asked Li Lu: Why did you make such a novel into a TV series? Li Lu replied: "I have feelings for the subject of workers." Seven years ago, Li Lu paid out of his own pocket and won an industrial-themed novel, but he couldn't find a screenwriter. Like Liang Xiaosheng, Li Lu is a native of Northeast China, and growing up, he witnessed the prosperity and rise and fall of heavy industry in Northeast China, as well as the pain and perseverance of workers in the face of layoffs.
Since the launch of "The World" on January 28, 2022, it has formed a heated discussion on the Internet, and the discussion angle involves all aspects, spilling over the play itself - there are discussions about success and filial piety: the elder brothers and sisters of Peking University, who returned from school to become vice governors, and the younger brother who did not go to college and took care of his family wholeheartedly, who is more successful and who is more filial? There is a discussion of love: the old couple of the Zhou family, who have not seen each other for several years, is there love between them? Sister Zhou Rong was desperate for love, ran to the big ravine to accompany the poet to live a hard life and become a young man, but many years later she had to face her lover's cheating and betrayal, was her efforts worth it?
After the broadcast of "The World", Li Lu often received WeChat messages from friends, and a doctor friend sent WeChat and repeatedly confirmed to him, "Bingkun and Bingyi, are they okay later?" Nothing went wrong, right? ”
"Maybe this type of drama has been a little less in recent years, so it really touches everyone's heart." Li Lu told Southern Weekend.
Li Lu remembers that when "In the Name of the People" was broadcast in 2017, "there was feedback from all walks of life, including leaders of many provinces eating at lunch, sitting there with a box lunch to watch "In the Name of the People", as well as the military and grassroots people in society. This time, we are also paying close attention to whether the real sense of breaking the circle, whether you are shouting, or more people like it after tea. ”
"It must be warm as the base color"
Southern Weekend: Liang Xiaosheng's original book "The World" is called "the epic of the common people", how did you understand and sort out this work when you decided to shoot "The World"?
Li Lu: When I got "The World" in June 2018, it had not yet won the Mao Dun Literature Award, nor was it called an "epic poem for commoners", but a set of novels had just been published. After "In the Name of the People", I took some projects, and I felt that none of them exceeded "In the Name of the People" and "Circuit Inspection Group", which made the cooperative team also very difficult. They said what kind of subject do you have to choose, and I said, great, just three words. Later, a literary editor told me that Liang Xiaosheng had just published a novel, but it was a little longer, with 1.15 million words. I read this novel and was very interested. But there is still a huge difference between text and vision, and the reading layer and the ratings group are completely different, so there must be an improvement from the text body of the novel to the script, and there is another way to go from the script to the visualization. The 58 episodes of the TV series presented to the audience now are a version that we can't be more compact, because we roughly cut 88 episodes, fine cut 72 episodes, submitted for review 66 episodes, and finally compressed to 58 episodes.
Southern Weekend: Are there any connections between the great work you want to make a great work and "The World" is about a group of small people?
Li Lu: To see clearly the huge power behind the text of the novel "The World", this may not be seen by many people. How can writing the youth history of such a small family, an alley, and a district reflect the great changes in China in the past 50 years? How can it have great appeal and influence? To speak conscience is to be discerning. There are even people who question the sense of network, and some question the age level of the audience, such a story that tells suffering, whether anyone has watched it, and so on. I am the general responsible and practical person for this play, from the selection of materials to the conception and layout of this play, I have always been like "In the Name of the People" (I signed a contract with the Supreme People's Inspection Film and Television Center with my personal ID card). I know how to do this kind of drama, who to find to perform, and on what platform to broadcast, it is very clear.
After the filming of "The World" was decided, I met with teacher Liang Xiaosheng. After the meeting, I wanted to hear Mr. Liang's original intention, just like I was looking for Zhou Mason at that time, Zhou Meisen moved me with a word, he said what kind of "In the Name of the People" to do, how to do it. This time, too, after Mr. Liang came, I think everyone has the same point of convergence, there is a sense of mission, I want to give visual and written proof for the people, I want to be for the people, I want to give visual and written proof for the people and things in this era and the 50 years of drastic changes in Chinese history, everyone still has feelings of home and country.
Seven years ago, I personally paid for a novel about factory industry, but I couldn't find a screenwriter, no one wrote it. I think this is also inevitable, because seven years ago we were still walking in absolute entertainment, and no one may have quietly watched when we filmed it, so it is important to say that many things are born at the right time.
Southern Weekend: The opening scene of "The World" is the intellectual youth years during the "Cultural Revolution", what are your thoughts on the display of this special historical period?
Li Lu: Liang Xiaosheng's "scar literature" is "good people literature", which is deeply imprinted in the literary world. But this time in the TV series, we did not add more ink to the "Cultural Revolution" and the issue of young people, and represented a community with a few strokes. Like the female intellectuals who play the piano, she is a southern intellectuals from Shanghai, and it is so cold to the northeast, in her words, my hand is reserved for playing the piano, and I can't do rough work.
At that time, there were many stories of such young people, but we did not render or expand, and only filmed the plot truthfully. She paid a lot to return to the city, but even such a small person, we didn't write her down.
Southern Weekend: "Scar literature" was very popular during a period of history, and then gradually faded from the public eye. What do you think of scar literature, especially adapting it into a film and television work that can be accepted at the moment, what is the biggest challenge you face?
Li Lu: "Scar literature" is a term for a specific historical period after the reform and opening up, and now it is no longer appropriate to mention "scar literature". "The World" is not written about scars, but about human fireworks, and it does not mock anything with a critical eye, that is, the bits and pieces of life reflect the changes of the times. Being able to like this work must be a value identity, there is passion to do this, if you don't have passion to do this, then shoot something else, I agree with the theme and values of the novel "The World". What I do is to do some aggregation from the visualization area. When I made the overall grasp, I determined that warmth was the base color, and the adaptation had to revolve around this. At that time, when "In the Name of the People" was filmed, in the evaluation of the TV Drama Department of the State Administration of Press, Publication, Radio, Film and Television at that time, it was called light holding darkness, justice holding evil, and this ratio must be used correctly. The proportions of our play use warmth as the base color.
Li Lu believes that "The World" is not written about scars, but about fireworks in the world, and it is a bit of life that reflects the changes of the times. (Photo courtesy of the crew)
"There is a blue sky in any era, and the sun rises every day"
Southern Weekend: How did you change from the novel to the TV series?
Li Lu: We change words and scenes, and examples like this abound, and sometimes we change our line of action. The screenwriter condensed the original novel in terms of second creation, because you can't be too telltale like a novel, after all, the episodes are here and the characters are here. Filming is another conceptual thing, the live actor has some improvisation, the director has some improvisation, and even some desk needs to be adjusted. The configuration of our actors this time is relatively high-standard, and they basically know how to act. In this case, the director's responsibility is to identify and identify, which is okay and that is not possible, and there is no need to let them act exactly as I want.
For example, teacher Ding Yongdai, he plays Zhou Bingkun's father. When he entered the crew, he had just finished filming "Across the Yalu River" and played Peng Dehuai. After coming, he put his hands in every day, like a big general, and I was anxious, "Old Ding, Brother Ding, you take your hands down, you are now an old worker, you hump your back, come here, we don't have thousands of troops here!" "He was really a good actor and came back in a few days and put his body down.
These require the skills of the actors, and also require the crew to create a creative atmosphere. Many people came to visit the class and were stunned, we had an RV lounge, and no one ran outside when everyone basically changed the light and changed the lens, they all sat there and chatted, watched each other's performances, and they were very quiet. There are no POSEs, running around, they are all very quietly preparing for the next scene and the next shot.
Southern Weekend: The protagonists in "The World" are the Zhou family of the "Light Word Film", and the various characters associated with them, adding up to more than 100 people, how do you arrange these characters?
Li Lu: I found screenwriter Wang Haiyu, after inviting her to come, not long after, the new crown epidemic broke out, I returned to Beijing from abroad, read more than a dozen episodes of the script, and saw the sky at night all the time, tears, very excited, sent a long WeChat message to Wang Haiyu, indicating that this direction is right and has become. Mr. Seabird's refinement and description of the topic is similar to that of a novel, but there are also differences. For example, the role of Luo Shibin is my proposition, I said to have such a person, he is a businessman, a generation of businessmen who rose up after the reform and opening up, not in the original novel, Luo Shibin provided a color palette. Like Zhou Bingkun, he is a small person, he does not have success in the secular sense, but you see that the fermentation on the Internet now is "stupid sons help parents" and "old pimples at home are the warm babies of parents".
We didn't expect the discussion of society to extend to so many places, but like the benevolence, righteousness, etiquette, wisdom, filial piety, and warmth between people reflected in the light word film, this is what we value more, or what has been missing over the years, and a corner of people's hearts still exists. You see the pictures that often appear in Korean dramas, the family eats fragrantly, we have indeed been in the family for so many years the population is becoming more and more sparse, the taste of the year is getting less and less, the human touch is getting weaker and weaker, the neighbors do not interact with each other, and the only child has no family group. But, although thin, you can't say that everyone's heart doesn't have this piece, it's all there, it's just not awakened. This play has an awakening function, that is, to weave the warmth of human love, home, country, small and large in Chinese past thousands of years. In this direction, we have removed some corners and corners, and made warmth one of the main themes of the play, so that everyone can feel more of the great changes in China in the past fifty years, the product of the efforts and efforts of officials, workers, all strata, and forbearance.
Southern Weekend: The appearance of Zheng Juan (Zhou Bingkun's wife) played by Yin Tao is impressive. It is obviously a dilapidated thatched hut, a down-and-out woman without cotton pants to wear, and the scene of her sitting on a kang and skewers of sugar gourds to make a living is eye-catching. What did you think about shooting a scene like this?
Li Lu: It took us a long time to shoot Yin Tao's appearance, if it is very expensive according to the rhythm of the TV series, we spend a lot of time setting up and setting, if according to some dramas, one episode in three days, one episode in four days, it is impossible to shoot this scene. From our point of view, there are blue skies in any era, the sun rises every day, and there are beautiful people in the gray corners, but from what perspective do you see. Although Zheng Juan's home is surrounded by disciples, there are some broken cabinets and rotten cotton quilts left, but her beauty cannot be stopped, otherwise Zhou Bingkun would not be immediately thrilled when he saw Zheng Juan. Therefore, any era has its unstoppable beauty, especially our play, which was bought by Disney a month after filming and will be broadcast globally, so we have this awareness all the time, not only their own family, this drama will go to sea. You can break it, you can't get dirty, your window flowers, you may be very poor, very poor, but you still have to be clean.
Southern Weekend: The protagonist in the play, the father and son of the Zhou family, especially the relationship between Bingkun and his father, do you think it is a typical Chinese father-son relationship?
Li Lu: Yes, Zhou Bingkun and his father are the kind of father-son relationship we called for or once had. Father Zhou worked as a bricklayer in the "big third line", he was an eighth-grade bricklayer, and his income was not low that year, which was equivalent to the income of a high cadre. The line also said that since he got married, he and Li Suhua, that is, his wife and children have not met many times, three years of family leave, sometimes they can't come back to save, and even one year the Spring Festival is eight years after eight years to come back, you think, how many eight years do people have in their lives? Zhou Bingkun is not allowed to bear the halo of the biggest male protagonist in this play, and the character who talks about the fate of the characters the most in the whole play is the character Bingkun. The novel takes a low-down perspective, a person who has not succeeded in the secular sense, and the ups and downs of fate in a lifetime as the narrative point, which I think is the main reason why Liang Xiaosheng's novel can win the Mao Dun Literature Award - small people, big heroes. Any era is composed of these people as the denominator, it is impossible for everyone to succeed and become a big person, and life is accumulated by countless Zhou Bingkun.
Southern Weekend: "In the Name of the People" is another masterpiece of yours, which was not favored by everyone at the time, but I didn't expect that a main theme film became a hit, this time "The World" is also like this, what is your secret?
Li Lu: If there is a formula for explosive models, then everyone can make explosive models. "In the Name of the People" or "The World" are two completely different types and plots. "In the Name of the People" has a strong plot, and it has this temporality in the context of the anti-corruption fever at that time. But "The World" does not have these two, neither a strong plot, nor a strong timeliness of anti-corruption, but a story, (they) are completely two methods, two styles of explosive style. Explosive is the result, usually without passion and thinking in this regard, it is impossible to do this kind of thing, it must be feeling, passionate, and responsible.
Southern Weekend reporter Li Yilan
Editor-in-Charge: Xing Renjian