"One of the most challenging aspects of my translation career was for Deng Xiaoping's interview with Italian journalist Farage."
This is the former director of the Translation Office of the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the sigh of Ambassador to Luxembourg Shi Yanhua recalling the translation task at that time. The translation task at that time referred to Deng Xiaoping's meeting with Farage in Hall 118 of the Great Hall of the People on August 21, 1980.
So what really happened at that time made Shi Yanhua, who was in charge of the translation task of this meeting, express such an emotion.
Shi Yanhua
The comers are not good
On the morning of August 21, 1980, the door of Hall 118 of the Great Hall of the People slowly opened, and a capable foreign middle-aged woman walked in, with a fast and steady pace, not so much exuding a noble and confident temperament as she carried an aggressive momentum.
What kind of person would dare to "wantonly" in the Great Hall of the People?
Being able to enter the Great Hall of the People in China is naturally not an ordinary person.
The middle-aged woman was Oliana Farage, an Italian journalist.
At the end of World War II, Farage got her first job as a police officer and hospital reporter in the Central Italian Morning Post, where her talent for literature came to the fore for 5 years.
Her talent attracted the attention of the top brass of the Italian national magazine The European, providing her with a wider stage. Her interviewees changed from a small-town police officer and medical staff to an international celebrity, giving her the opportunity to interview popular movie stars Marilyn Monroe, Gregory Parker, Hitchcock and "007" actor Sean Connery.
But that's not all, she became a well-known journalist in the world, not because she interviewed popular stars, but more importantly, she interviewed political giants around the world, Deng Xiaoping, Kissinger, Mrs. Gandhi, Walesa, Arafat, Khomeini, Gaddafi and other extraordinary figures.
Before the interview, she would spend a lot of time researching the interviewee, and the interview was not just asking the interviewee to say two sentences, but an interview that lasted six or seven hours, and her interview was more similar to the interview.
Her unique interviewing skills and style are also very different from other ordinary journalists, and her interviews have a unique place — emotional, aggressively questioning, and long-lasting.
Her heart insists on equality of personality, even in the face of politicians of various countries, and when interviewing politicians of various countries, she is always willing to ask harsh, sharp, sharp and even bitter questions, which makes the other party headache. It has also led to her growing influence in the world press.
She is like an experienced and excellent hunter, using cannon-like questions as a weapon, causing many prominent politicians to reveal their true thoughts from them, so as to obtain the information she needs, a trick that has been tried and tested.
In an interview with Deng Xiaoping, she asked a sharp question, "Mr. Deng, why are people like you always in the position of second in command?" ”
And Deng Xiaoping's answer was also very wise, and Farage deeply admired it after listening to it.
"The statue of Chairman Mao in the Tiananmen Tower must be preserved forever"
This time Deng Xiaoping met with Farage, and she made a special request that she want exclusive coverage.
Therefore, this time, only Deng Xiaoping, Qian Qichen, director of the Information Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Shi Yanhua, an interpreter, a recorder, and Farage herself were present.
As soon as Farage sat down, he routinely took the tape recorder from his bag and placed it on the coffee table.
Experienced, she used a greeting to open the scene, she said to Deng Xiaoping, "Tomorrow is your birthday, I want to congratulate you, I wish you a happy birthday!" ”
Deng Xiaoping humorously replied: "Tomorrow is my birthday?" I never cared when it was my birthday. ”
Farage raised an eyebrow and continued, "I know that from your biography. ”
As soon as Deng Xiaoping heard it, he knew that Farage had done his homework in advance during this interview, and Deng Xiaoping replied humorously: "Even if it is, don't congratulate me." I'm 76 years old and I'm at the age of recession! ”
"My father is also 76 years old, and if I tell him this, he will definitely slap me twice." Farage answered like a stream.
Deng Xiaoping waved his hand: "Yes, of course you can't say that to your father." ”
Such an ice-breaking opening looks relaxed and pleasant, but the next interview changes drastically and-for-tat.
Entering the main topic of the interview, Farage asked Deng Xiaoping the first question.
"Mr. Deng, you said recently that China is at a turning point, which can be said to be the second revolution. In fact, those who come to Beijing today can see for themselves the changes that have taken place in China. People are no longer wearing uniforms, slogans are gone, there are fewer portraits of Chairman Mao, a few years ago I came to Beijing and I can see portraits of Chairman Mao everywhere, and today I came here from the hotel and saw only one, hanging at the entrance of the Forbidden City (the old palace). Will you keep the portrait of Chairman Mao in the future? ”
On the surface, such a question is only to understand chairman Mao's portrait, but in fact it is to ask Deng Xiaoping how to evaluate Mao Zedong.
Her intentions could not have escaped Deng Xiaoping's insight, and then Deng Xiaoping said with a categorical attitude: "We must always keep it!" ”
Then, Deng Xiaoping added: "Chairman Mao is the main founder of the Communist Party of China and the People's Republic of China, he has done a lot for the Chinese people, and we will always commemorate him as the founder of our party and country." ”
Just like the passing move between the masters, the first move sent by Farage was easily defused by Deng Xiaoping.
"It would be foolish to compare me to Khrushchev"
Farage then continued to work on the statue.
At that time, there were still statues of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin hanging on Tiananmen Square.
Farage did not understand the image of Hanging Stalin, and she thought that Khrushchev was anti-Stalin and a hero.
Deng Xiaoping also immediately saw the essence behind the problem, and Deng Xiaoping responded in a more solemn tone, saying that China is different from the Soviet Union, and what happened in the Soviet Union will never happen in China.
Deng Xiaoping knew that Western journalists were good at taking things out of context and reversing right and wrong. In response, Deng Xiaoping specifically pointed to the pen in Farage's hand and signaled her to record it.
Next, Farage intensified, "I hope you don't get angry when you hear it, this is not what I said, some people in the West say that you are Khrushchev of China!" What are your thoughts on this? Farage asked.
After listening to such a question, the translator Shi Yanhua was embarrassed, and after listening, Shi Yanhua looked at everyone present in surprise, just finished asking about his attitude toward Chairman Mao, and then asked such a question, which seemed very offensive and sharp. But for the sake of the on-site interview, which was convenient for Deng Xiaoping to answer, coupled with Shi Yanhua's understanding of Deng Xiaoping, she finally decided to translate the question as it was.
After the translation, everyone was stunned, the atmosphere of the scene was extremely tense, the air seemed very solemn at this moment, and a suffocating feeling filled the entire conference hall.
Unlike the others present, Deng Xiaoping did not get angry at all after listening to the question, but instead laughed loudly, shook his hand while laughing, and returned: "In the West, they can call me whatever they want, but I know Khrushchev very well, I have been dealing with him for ten years, and they compare me to Khrushchev is stupid."
Khrushchev
"Why are you always second in command?"
When Farage was doing her homework before the interview, there was a question that she couldn't understand, couldn't find the answer to, or even what she couldn't understand.
During the period of Chairman Mao's leadership, Deng Xiaoping experienced setbacks and difficulties several times, but Deng Xiaoping always respected Chairman Mao.
After listening to the question, Deng Xiaoping smiled and replied to Farage, the difficulty is not twice, it is three times, he has experienced a total of three times and three up.
Deng Xiaoping further added that the first time was caused by Wang Ming; The second time was not long after 1966, when he was sent to Jiangxi to work, during which Time Chairman Mao was particularly concerned about his personal safety; The third time was in early 1976.
"Why do I go up three times?" It's because I like to tell the truth. Deng Xiaoping said.
After listening to Deng Xiaoping's answer, Farage felt sincere admiration, gathered some of the sharpness at the beginning, and said: "You speak with the same heart, always like this." But a person who survives three times and three ups is also rare in the world. Many leaders may only have one up and one down, two up and two down, and Napoleon only has one up. Of course, you can't compare yourself with Napoleon, and you can't compare. What is the secret of your resurrection after three times and three ups? ”
"No secrets. It's just that sometimes they think I'm still a little useful... Foreign friends often ask me how I can endure so many ups and downs. I think because I'm more optimistic, but it's not comprehensive, and the comprehensive answer is, because in the depths of my heart, I have pinned my hopes on Chairman Mao, and I know that he understands me. Deng Xiaoping replied without hesitation.
From 1966 to 1976, China experienced a major setback that lasted 10 years. This setback has brought the national economy to the brink of collapse, the people's lives are still poor, and China is faced with a key choice of where to go.
On May 10, 1978, under the organization of Hu Yaobang, vice president of the Central Party School, "Practice is the Only Criterion for Testing Truth" was published in the school journal "Theoretical Dynamics". The next day, the article was published on the front page of Guangming Daily as a special commentator, and was quickly loaded in full by several newspapers. After the article was published, it was criticized.
At this critical juncture, Deng Xiaoping stepped forward and publicly supported "Practice is the Only Criterion for Testing Truth" at the All-Army Political Work Conference held on June 2, 1978.
Subsequently, with the support and leadership of Deng Xiaoping, the great discussion on the criterion of truth was smoothly carried out throughout the country and won the support of the whole country, and this great discussion greatly liberated people's minds and provided ideological guarantee for the development of follow-up work.
However, as far as the actual domestic situation at that time was concerned, if the country wanted to develop rapidly, it was far from enough to rely on emancipating the mind. Deng Xiaoping had already taken this issue into consideration, so in the course of the great discussion on the criterion of truth, along with the ideological line, there were also new ideas for reform and opening up.
From September 13 to 20, 1978, Deng Xiaoping conducted research in the northeast and Tianjin and other places, and issued the "Northern Speech", which expounded the general requirements, theoretical basis and spirit of reform.
Subsequently, deng Xiaoping visited Japan in 1978, saw Japan's economic recovery after the war, visited Japan's modern factories, and could not help but sigh that if China wants to build itself into a socialist modern power, it must first rely on its own efforts, and at the same time open its doors, open its doors to the outside world, and learn from all the advanced experiences and advanced technologies of foreign countries.
Subsequently, Deng Xiaoping had great foresight and decided to normalize Sino-US relations, and on January 28, 1979, Deng Xiaoping opened a nine-day visit to the United States, which promoted the establishment and development of Sino-US diplomatic relations, and China's opening up to the outside world set sail in the change of the world pattern.
From December 18 to 22, 1978, Deng Xiaoping presided over the Third Plenary Session of the Eleventh Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, which was a great turning point of profound significance in the history of our Party.
The meeting re-established the Marxist ideological line of seeking truth from facts, downplayed the slogan of "class struggle as the program," which is not applicable to the current socialist society, and decided to shift the focus of the work of the whole party to socialist modernization.
The plenary session clearly pointed out that the party's historical task in the new period is to build China into a socialist modern power, which opened the prelude to socialist reform and opening up. China began to embark on the path of reform and opening up.
Deng Xiaoping's wisdom and foresight are beyond far his understanding, and Farage is puzzled as to where reform and opening up will lead China.
Farage asked Deng Xiaoping curiously, "Do you think capitalism is not all bad?" ”
Farage felt that Deng Xiaoping's idea of retaining the rural land was contradictory to communist theory.
Deng Xiaoping clearly answered Farage's question: "First of all, we must find out what capitalism is." Capitalism is superior to feudalism, and there are some things that cannot be said to be capitalist. He listed advanced technology, advanced production management, etc., which should be studied by any society and any country, and there is no class nature.
Moreover, Deng Xiaoping also pointed out that socialism is the first stage of communism and a very long historical stage, and at this stage, it is necessary to combine the interests of the state, the collective, and the individual in order to arouse enthusiasm and develop socialism.
This answer seemed to solve the doubts in Farage's heart, and in his heart burst out his heartfelt admiration for Deng Xiaoping.
For Deng Xiaoping, there was a question in Farage's mind, making her feel like a fish in her throat, not spitting out unhappiness: "Mr. Deng, why are people like you always in the position of second in command?" Why are you always a deputy? ”
Deng Xiaoping seemed to find this question very unnecessary, and he replied with a smile: "The current position has not affected my work." ”
In farage's interview with Deng Xiaoping, Deng Xiaoping never mentioned what contributions he had made to the Chinese revolution, and when talking about Chairman Mao's contributions to the Chinese revolution, he also pointed out that Mao Zedong Thought was mainly Chairman Mao's thought, but other revolutionaries of the older generation, such as Zhou Enlai, Liu Shaoqi, zhu De, and so on, also made contributions.
In Deng Xiaoping's mouth, his name was not mentioned, and Farage could not help asking: "Why don't you mention your own name?" ”
Deng Xiaoping smiled and said, "Oh, I'm not nothing, of course I always do something, how can a revolutionary not do something?" ”
In the interview, Farage asked one question after another, and all the questions were answered by Deng Xiaoping. Soon, the time came to 12:10, and the interview had lasted 2 hours and 10 minutes, which was 10 minutes later than originally expected.
This made the staff very strange, because usually Deng Xiaoping was very precise in his time control when meeting with foreign guests.
At this time, Farage seemed to have a lot of questions to ask, and did not have the slightest intention of stopping the interview, and Deng Xiaoping also saw it, and he humorously said to Farage: "Well, when it is time for dinner, the stomach is going to 'make a revolution'." It seems that your question is not finished, let's find time to talk about it again! ”
Just as drowsiness met the pillow, Deng Xiaoping's proposal hit Farage in the arms, and Farage seemed to dare not believe his ears when he heard it, like a child, and was happy to jump up from the sofa.
Two days later, on August 23, also in the morning, Deng Xiaoping met with Farage again.
At the second meeting, Deng Xiaoping focused on talking to Farage about his evaluation of Chairman Mao, and made a very in-depth analysis of the current international situation, which was reasonable and well-founded, and Let Farage frequently nod his head in agreement.
At the end of the meeting, Deng Xiaoping took the initiative to stand up from his seat and walked toward Farage, who shook Farage's hand and humorously asked Farage: "How, I passed the exam?" ”
The wisdom, pattern and humor of China's leaders have impressed Farage with all his might. For Farage herself, this interview was a fruitful and exclusive report, which is another major positive for her future influence in the international press.
Farage quickly smiled and said to Deng Xiaoping: "Wonderful! ”
In just three days, Deng Xiaoping met with the Italian journalist Farage twice in a row to accept her interviews, which is extremely rare, but behind it is Deng Xiaoping's good intentions.
After the Third Plenary Session of the Eleventh Central Committee of the Communist Party of China in 1978, China began reform and opening up, and the work center was shifted to economic construction.
Internationally, China's implementation of reform and opening up has also confused most countries, and some Western media believe that whether China's reform and opening up means that China will start to take the capitalist road. Developing countries are also skeptical about whether changes in China's foreign policy will affect subsequent support for developing countries.
Deng Xiaoping wants to send an important message to the world through Italian journalists - China will unswervingly follow the socialist road, China will continue to support developing countries, and China is a united country!
Reference Materials
[1] Interview with Farage
[2] Deng Xiaoping began the great cause of reform and opening up
[3] Global Network, "Rarely Find Such a Wise Leader"—Farage's Comments on Deng Xiaoping