interlocution
Q&A
China
2021.11.26
The collection of the prosperous world is timeless and new
This week, we listen to the sounds of artifacts...
Shan Jixiang
Former Director-General of the State Administration of Cultural Heritage (2002.8-2012.2)
Former President of the Palace Museum (2012.1-2019.4)
"We will not use the state's money to buy back looted artifacts. At that time, we were plundered, which was itself a violation of human morality, and today we sprinkle salt on our wounds and let us use money to buy them back, which is undoubtedly the second plunder. ”
Li Xiaojie
Former Director-General of the State Administration of Cultural Heritage (2012.1-2015.10)
"Like some ancient ruins in Tibet and Xinjiang, it takes half a day to drive a helicopter, but he doesn't want to run far for saboteurs and excavators, because he has a single purpose, and he rushes to rob the tomb!"
Liu Yuzhu
Former Director-General of the State Administration of Cultural Heritage (2015.10-2021.4)
"The Chinese expert group reminded the Burmese side that the restoration work may not be able to wait any longer, and if it waits any longer, there will be an accident, and as a result, the temple will collapse the next day..."
Recent news
At the just-concluded Fourth China International Import Expo, a white jade cap bottle of Qing Dynasty cultural relics that was lost overseas successfully signed a sales agreement, becoming the first temporary entry exhibition of cultural relics sold at the Expo.
At the last CIIE, the first five pieces of Chinese ancient painting cultural relics exhibited, after enjoying nearly 300,000 yuan of tax-free concessions, achieved domestic sales, the Expo thus opened a channel for overseas Chinese cultural relics to return.
According to UNESCO's incomplete statistics, the number of Chinese cultural relics scattered around the world has reached 1.64 million, and together with the folk collection, it may exceed 10 million pieces, which is equivalent to 5.5 times the volume of the Forbidden City's collection.
In recent years, Chinese cultural relics that have been lost overseas have frequently appeared at auctions, such as the return of the familiar Twelve Animal Heads of the Yuanmingyuan. In 2009, Christie's defied the chinese government's strong opposition and conducted auctions of rabbit heads and rat heads...
Wu Xiaoli: In the past, Poly Group bought animal heads at auctions, and Mr. He Hongshen bought back animal heads and gave them back to the state. What do you think of this way of returning artifacts?
Shan Jixiang: In the past, some enterprises or individuals advocated collecting overseas Chinese cultural relics through special national collection funds, but we always told Christie's that this is impossible, and we will not use the state's money to buy back the looted cultural relics. At that time, we were plundered, which was itself a violation of human morality, and today we sprinkle salt on our wounds and let us use money to buy them back, which is undoubtedly the second plunder. We do not approve of domestic enterprises or individuals going to auctions to buy looted cultural relics, and should realize the return of cultural relics through legal recourse, and should not help looters to sell stolen goods. It is hoped that the looted cultural relics can be reasonably resolved under the call of international justice and justice.
In 2020, the first 600th birthday of the Forbidden City
For this century celebration, in 2002, the Forbidden City launched the "Centennial Overhaul" plan. In 2012, Shan Jixiang stepped down from the State Administration of Cultural Heritage to take charge of the Palace Museum. However, after a year in office, the decades-long repair plan was once stopped by the Forbidden City for more than a year because the quality of the project was not up to standard.
Wu Xiaoli: What problems did you find?
Shan Jixiang: For example, the tile surface that has just been repaired has begun to lose building materials to the outside, because he has not been able to repair it according to the traditional craftsmanship. Some of the walls were just repaired and cracks appeared. At that time, the plan was to build a large hall a year, complete the Taihe Hall and repair the Zhonghe Hall, and complete the Zhonghe Hall and repair the Baohe Hall. If this construction method continues, many ancient buildings may have some repair problems, so we stopped. To be honest, it was very anxious at that time.
Exactly in November 2015, the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference held a bi-weekly consultation forum, and I was given an eight-minute opportunity to speak. I almost cried that the Forbidden City had encountered this helpless problem and hoped to solve these problems. Then we wrote a report to the State Department. After I wrote it, I quickly received instructions, and the most touching sentence in the instructions was: The affairs of the Forbidden City should be handled according to the special affairs.
Relief lipstick, tide play cultural creation, and internet celebrity museums have gradually replaced the classic business cards of "imperial palaces" and become the new label of the Palace Museum in the hearts of young people. In 2016, with the intensive introduction of a series of policies and regulations to encourage cultural and cultural institutions to develop creative products, Internet giants accessed high-quality IP resources of traditional culture and made cultural relics come alive.
In 2016, Tencent launched "Crossing the Forbidden City to See You"
How does Shan Jixiang interpret this product that was selected as the "Best Marketing Project" by Tencent Interactive Entertainment?
Wu Xiaoli: The emperor put on sunglasses and played rap. How do you see such a historical and interesting balance?
Shan Jixiang: At the opening ceremony, Tencent colleagues released this video, but I haven't seen it yet. On the day of the opening ceremony, 760,000 people had already seen the video. Friends in the media asked me if I accepted this? When I saw the Yongle Emperor wearing sunglasses, it made people feel uncomfortable, so it didn't feel good... The characters should be cute, not hateful, and have some reverence for historical figures. For the Forbidden City, I think there needs to be a degree, not to cross this degree: on the one hand, I hope that this is healthy and interesting; on the other hand, I hope to spread the correct concept and true history of the Forbidden City. Dancing like this in sunglasses is too far from real history.
Wu Xiaoli: Should the income earned through the cultural and creative products of the Forbidden City be handed over to the national treasury? Or can it be retained as an expense for the Forbidden City?
Shan Jixiang: Our income and expenditure are two lines, such as tickets, every day at five o'clock, the cash truck comes to our ticket office on time to take the money, which has nothing to do with the income of the Forbidden City. For cultural and creative products, the state has formulated a policy, we are such a revenue and expenditure of two lines, not a full appropriation of the unit, after their own efforts, the income obtained from marketing, can be reinvested in our re-research and development, expand our business in this regard.
The broadcast of the documentary "I Repair Cultural Relics in the Forbidden City" has gained a large number of fans in the Forbidden City and aroused people's attention to cultural relics conservators. In October 2021, the first occupational skill standard of China's cultural relics industry, the National Occupational Skill Standard for Cultural Relics Restorers, was jointly promulgated by the Ministry of Chinese Social Security and the State Administration of Cultural Heritage.
In fact, in China, because the construction of the cultural relics restoration talent team lags behind the industry demand, this has become a bottleneck affecting the high-quality development of the cultural relics industry.
Liu Yuzhu: In 2015, we surveyed the current situation report of restorers, there are more than 3,400 restorers across the country, if these restorers each restore 50 cultural relics per year, it will take 120 years to complete the restoration of the cultural relics in the current collection. Moreover, now that 200 new museums will be added almost every year, especially private museums, then there is a serious shortage of practical talents related to cultural relics restoration. Therefore, we need to strengthen the repair of the structure of talent training and adapt to market demand. “
People think of the Forbidden City, which is bustling with tourists and receives tens of millions of spectators every year. Shan Jixiang said that the conservators of cultural relics had to quietly face and talk to a cultural relic in a department or a small corner of the Forbidden City, and it would be several months in a row.
Shan Jixiang: I saw our employees repairing one piece of lacquerware, and after many months, he was still repairing this and that lacquerware. I said how long do I have to fix it? He said seven months. Why fix it for seven months? Because it is in the north, he said, only in the warmest season and wet time in Beijing, you can paint two paints a day, and you can only paint one paint a day.
Wu Xiaoli: Does it have to air dry naturally?
Shan Jixiang: Right. He came to brush this lacquer regularly every day, and he must brush more than 100 lacquers, and the lacquerware needs 120 lacquers to depict the damaged part. So this requires patience and obscurity, and is definitely a craftsman spirit. Therefore, you should tell these young people in advance that you are engaged in such a job, not like a movie star, performing in the film, and often showing it to relatives, friends and classmates, but you have to do it in obscurity, and many people accept it.
Over the years, China has always responded positively to the work of cultural relics aiding foreign countries and overseas cooperative archaeology. For example, it assists the reinforcement of the ancient pagoda in mongolia in the Liao Dynasty, assists in the restoration of the ancient monuments of Angkor Wat in Cambodia, participates in the protection of the ancient city of Khiva in Uzbekistan, and the nine-story temple in Kathmandu, Nepal... China is demonstrating its great power influence in the field of international culture.
Wu Xiaoli: What technologies are top-notch now?
Liu Yuzhu: First, some of the cultural relics unique to China, including calligraphy and painting, lacquerware, in this regard, our storage technology and restoration technology are world-class, and there is no comparison. In some other countries, such as the British Museum in the United Kingdom and some museums in Denmark, some Chinese paintings and lacquerware are displayed, and the restoration of these utensils is to ask our domestic museums to send experts to repair. The second category, such as the protection and restoration of grotto painting and temple painting, as well as excavated cultural relics and archaeology, we are also leading the way now.
Liu Yuzhu: For example, on August 24, 2016, a 6.8-magnitude earthquake struck Myanmar, affecting more than 400 pagodas in the Bagan region. After the Burma earthquake, the Chinese government immediately sent a team of experts to Bagan for field investigation. Because the situation of the Bagan earthquake was particularly serious, the Chinese expert group recommended that the pagoda be strengthened immediately, otherwise there is a risk of collapse. At that time, the Burmese side said that it was okay, because experts from several countries had already seen it and said that although the building was damaged, it was not yet in a state that needed to be immediately reinforced. But the Chinese expert group still reminded that I was afraid that I could not wait any longer, and if I waited any longer, something would happen, and the temple would collapse the next day... Therefore, the representatives of UNESCO, Myanmar, and other countries have given a thumbs up to the professional judgment of Chinese experts.
Liu Yuzhu: Including after the 2015 earthquake in Nepal, we undertook the restoration of the nine-story temple in Durbar Square, and we are competing with other countries, such as the United States, Japan and other countries, because we are undertaking the most damaged buildings.
Others, as well as our archaeological excavations in Uzbekistan, Mongolia, and some related countries, have been highly praised. Therefore, China is already a leader in these areas.
Choreographer: Meng Han
Editor: Ma Jin