This is a chat I had with Professor Zhao Nanyuan of Tsinghua University at the end of 2016. It's a little bit of finishing.
Me: Teacher Zhao, which figure in history do you most admire?
Zhao Nanyuan: This is not easy to say. But I admire politicians who push for social change.
Me: Then you must have admired Deng Xiaoping. The chief architect of reform and opening up.
Zhao Nanyuan: Hmm. Not only was Deng Xiaoping himself a great figure in the history of the world, but his daughter led the work of the Association for Science and Technology and made very great achievements for the country.
Deng Xiaoping
Me: But some people don't like it, they like to stick to the rules. They prefer a static life, similar to the idyllic life of slash-and-burn farming thousands of years ago.
Zhao Nanyuan: People who are scientifically reactionary are also politically reactionary. Because this is a different pattern caused by the three views. Slash and burn, that is not called pastoral life, that is living to suffer. There are still people who are obsessed with and fantasize about that kind of life because they hate industrialization. Just like anti-GMO people, even if they don't consider their religious beliefs, they don't like industrialization on a daily basis.
Me: So why do you think they hate industrialization?
Zhao Nanyuan: Industrialization emphasizes linkage, and the strength of the individual is no longer important. Just as if you want to eat grain, you need to buy it, and farmers have to buy seeds, fertilizers, and pesticides, otherwise the harvest will be very bad. And these seeds, fertilizers, pesticides must be processed and improved by the technical industry, and if the strength of a single person or family cannot be completed, the factory must do it. Factories are controlled by commercial capital. So some people are not happy, thinking that what I eat is ultimately controlled by commercial capital, but can't I grow my own food? As a result, they fantasized about returning to a kind of paradise, a primitive agricultural society that did not rely on any science and technology, and called it "pastoral life". But this is only their wishful thinking. Once industrialization happens in the world, you can't go back, you can't go back, you can't go back if you want to, you can't go back. A single person can enter the industrial system without entering the industrial system, but if a country is not willing to enter the industrial system, the country will be doomed.
Me: Having said that, is industrialization not a problem?
Zhao Nanyuan: Humanistic intellectuals especially like to fantasize about a static, desireless society. Industrialized societies bring desire. So they think this desire is not good. What kind of life do they like? For example, if you go to Beijing to catch the exam and then send a letter home, a letter may take several months on the road. But they like this slow life. However, human society is full of competition, you like to live slowly, but other places are accelerating development, you slow down people are not slow, soon you will have to be eliminated by people with foreign guns and cannons.
Industrial civilization does have some negativity, but these negativities are also completely acceptable compared to those disasters of the past. And only by continuous development can we find ways to reduce negative effects in development. I once said, "Of course, science has the possibility of application outside the field of science, and there are many successful precedents for the application of various scientific methods in non-scientific fields, and even if there are temporarily unsuccessful examples, it is still worthwhile to continue to work in this direction." It is also possible to use this phrase on how to look at industrialization. Even if industrialization will bring some negative effects, we should still be bold to try, even if we encounter more setbacks, but it is still worthwhile to continue to work in the direction of industrialization. Only by doing it can we find a solution to the negative effects, and the methods are all found out by ourselves in practice.
Professor Zhao Nanyuan of Tsinghua University
It can be said that there is no place or country in the world that can resist industrialization. Saudi Arabia is a theocratic country, but it also embraces industrial civilization. The acceptance was a little faster, and some great imams were not happy, saying that modern science and technology would affect the people's piety. So the king summoned the Grand Imam to a meeting. Quietly let people drag their high-end cars away. When the grand imams came out of the meeting, they saw that there were no cars, and they were in a hurry. The king said to them that cars are also the crystallization of modern industry, and you should walk on your own when you oppose industrial civilization. When they think about it, it is convenient to take a car, otherwise they will be exhausted by walking on two legs. So they agreed to some of the regulations proposed by the king to allow for a moderate introduction of things from the West.
Saudis
Of course, there are also some people who are particularly stubborn, such as bin Laden, who are not allowed to use air conditioners, refrigerators, and color TVs at home. But his fate was tragic.
Refusing to industrialize and reject science and technology will not end well.
Me: Thank you Teacher Zhao, what you said is very interesting. I learned a lot.
(Here's a little bit of sentiment from the "Skeptical Explorer," so I'll sort it out.) At the same time, I remember Professor Zhao Nanyuan. ）