Interface News Reporter | Yin Qinglu
Interface News Editor | Yellow Moon
At Gallery All's group exhibition of sculptures, which opened this month, a work that at first glance seems unclear comes into view: a little boy in sneakers rides a big bird through a chrysanthemum bush, and precious salmon roe beads burst out of the flowers. In a way, the sculpture titled "Spring" is a portrait of the life of the artist James Jean (known as Jian Ming in Chinese), who sits somewhere between the expansion and triumph of man in the West and the harmony and collectivism of East Asia.
In the highly competitive art world, his path to fame was a little special. Jian Ming is an Asian-American artist who moved to the United States from Taiwan with his parents when he was 3 years old and now lives in Los Angeles. His work spans illustration, drawing, sculpture and design, and he has worked as a cover illustrator for DC Comics magazine Fables, as well as for working with luxury brands such as Prada and creating posters for Hollywood films such as Instant Universe, The Shape of Water and Blade Runner 2049. In his early years, his famous sketches were widely circulated on the Internet, and also inspired many young people who aspired to pursue a career in the arts. After fading out of the field of illustration in 2008, Jian Ming's creative focus shifted to oil painting and fine art, and set foot in the field of NFT art, also known as "the successor of Takashi Murakami".
For the simplest fan, the charm of his work lies in the dreamy delicate lines and colors, as well as the intricacies of the fables. Early in his career, Jian Ming found his identity in a cultural environment that was detached from the East and the West, and he also devoted himself to fusing contemporary themes with traditional Chinese scroll paintings, Japanese woodblock prints, and Renaissance portraits, and distilling the collective human experience from them. As a result, the characters in Concise's works always seem half-dreaming, half-human, half-god, with a dark and treacherous innocence in their innocence, which he calls "mutants of culture", just like himself.
Perhaps the most commendable thing is that in the sometimes impetuous art world, Jian Ming does not want to discard the charm of traditional painting, nor does he intend to throw out dazzling concepts. His method of work is closer to that of the psychologist Carl Jung, constantly absorbing information and myths of various eras, and then expressing a certain universal truth through the subconscious.
One morning after Gallery All's group exhibition "66 Sunset Boulevard" opened in early April, when a reporter from Interface Culture (ID: booksandfun) met Jian Ming on Yuyao Road in Shanghai, he took out his latest sketchbook and said with a smile, "In the past, sketches had to be beautiful and show off their skills, but now they are real sketches drawn for the finished product." The "great god" in the market at the beginning has now become more calm, introverted and confident.
In the interview, Jian Ming talked about the story of creating the poster for "The Universe in an Instant", his floating identity, the discrete experience of contemporary people, and his love for Jung. Even as a successful artist, as an Asian-American, he still had to face many difficulties and constantly overcome obstacles.
01 Nowadays, discrete is a global experience
Interface Culture: You're usually known for your paintings, but this exhibition brings recent sculptures that seem to relate to the relationship between human/nature and East/West. Can you tell us about your thoughts?
Concise: The sculpture, called Spring, is a good example of this, which on the one hand embodies the Western idea of "destiny" (a reference to the belief held by American settlers in the 19th century that the United States was given a divine destiny to expand the continent of North America) and is very individualistic, about how heroes conquer and seize land. In contrast, Aboriginal or Oriental people are more collectivist and more focused on living in harmony with nature.
You can see the little boy controlling a bird with the reins, and the orbs that look like salmon eggs presumably point to the Louis and Clark expedition. As early explorers in the United States, they crossed rivers to try to find the source of salmon and exploit natural resources using Native American knowledge. I have in my mind images of a chrysanthemum blooming, fish eggs hatching from the chrysanthemum, and then the boy uses the power of birds to extract these precious spheres like oil. I love this unexpected, surreal combination that has the power to evoke emotions and memories.
I've lived in the U.S. for a long time, but I've also lived in Asia for a long time, so my family is both individual and collective. My son goes to school in the U.S., everyone runs around freely and there are no desks in the classroom, but when he goes to the Japanese school, everyone is quiet and there are many rules. In fact, a lot of kids are able to adapt to this kind of rules and structure, and having no structure at all can be maddening – it's very similar to how I work, sometimes I like structure, sometimes I want to have more freedom, both are important.
Interface Culture: In your earlier work, the conflict between ethnic groups was not yet obvious, and you said, "As the work matures, I will resolve the repressed cultural conflict in a more direct and recognizable way." "Why is this happening?
Jane: I say this when I think it's during the pandemic, when there was a huge social upheaval and a lot of protests. With everyone trapped in the house, many social issues have been pushed to the forefront, especially the Black Lives Matter movement in the United States, and many people have used social media to seek justice. For Asian Americans, there has been an effort to get more Asian-American representation, especially in Los Angeles, but at the same time, there are many older Asians in San Francisco and New York. I don't think we're as vocal and organized as other groups, but we're really starting to face that, and that's why I'm saying that.
Actually, my artistic career has been full of struggles, and although I seem to be successful to the outside, there are still many obstacles for an Asian-American male artist. That's why I do a lot of commercial collaborations, movie posters, because in the U.S., it's relatively difficult for Asian artists to get support from museums or institutions, so they have to do other things to attract more audiences and get their work out.
But on the other hand, it's important to protest injustice, but the best way to do it is to let things happen naturally, rather than creating for a subject or hitting yourself on the head. I basically just go with the flow, I go wherever my work goes, wherever it's popular, and I'm excited to work with various Asian American organizations to raise awareness of the Asian community, and that's what happened with the movie poster for Instant Universe. The same goes for bringing my work to Asia, where I can have big museum exhibitions, but it's much more difficult to do that in the United States.
Interface Culture: I was surprised by the fact that I think a lot of people know you because of the posters you created for Oscar-winning films and your collaborations with luxury brands like Prada, and those are great works. But these works actually imply the problem of identity barriers?
Jane: Yes, growing up, I always saw this artist do great exhibitions, that artist's work was shown at the fair, and none of that happened to me. And since I started working on my own projects, my separation from the art system has become more and more obvious, because it takes all kinds of relationships to survive in the art world, and I don't operate in this system, so I have to do a lot of things on my own. Now I'm 45 years old and I'm a lot calmer, and I know that I'm on my own and no one is really going to help me.
While I've always felt that it would be nice to have the support of a gallery agency or a museum, I'm also grateful that I can go the other way and not follow the traditional path, because once you are accepted by the system, you depend on the system, and there is always a danger of being eliminated. Even though I'm outside the system, looking back, that's my path, the path that is unique. At the end of the day, it's about freedom and being able to choose and complete projects that are fun and that match my talents.
Interface Culture: You've described yourself as a "floater," which has to do with both the immigration status of Asian Americans and the migration between commercial art and fine art. How has this feeling changed as you continue to trace the origins of East Asian culture in your work?
Concise: I think with globalization, this feeling of being floating and not having a fixed identity or belonging is very common these days, but it wasn't for me as a child. I moved to the United States from Taiwan when I was three years old, and until now I have a deep sense of identity loss, because my Chinese is very poor, and I wish I could better protect my language, but American culture colonizes your mind and takes over your cultural identity. Add to that the fact that I don't live in a cultural enclave, but in a predominantly white, Jewish, and Italian community, and my parents want me to fit in and become an American. It's a lot different from growing up on the West Coast, where the Asian community is much thrive, and Asian restaurants and grocery stores are very well preserved, which means I don't really belong anywhere now.
But since social media, we can see other people's lives and think about it. Especially for young people, they always have an anxious and uncomfortable feeling, and there is always an urge to leave and explore their destiny. Actually, that's what my parents did, and they left Taiwan for a better life, which is a bit ironic because some of my friends have moved back to Taiwan — and even though their families brought them to the U.S., they eventually returned to Asia and lived a more successful life.
Ever since I created the character "Descendent" (which means "falling", pronounced similar to descenndant, which means "descendant"), I've realized that "discrete" is a universal theme, and that many people have had the experience of leaving their homeland and moving to another culture. It brings a feeling of floating, but this constant search also brings creativity, and you never know where your path will lead. You think you already have an idea, but it always develops in unexpected ways.
Interface Culture: This is probably the appeal of your work. Many viewers have had discrete experiences, but it's hard to describe the feeling until it resonates in your work?
Concise: In my early work, I could see a lot of influences from American pop culture, such as comic books and animation. But I also like Oriental art, and all kinds of Aboriginal art, and I feel a sense of closeness to this kind of creativity, which comes from the description of the spiritual or the world of another dimension, and is shown in the patterns of clothing, murals, textiles. It's all in my sketchbook. I think what makes these sketches appeal to a large audience is precisely because they depict an intuitive feeling that is common to all human beings.
02 I don't want to be too obvious, but I can't help but be myself
Interface Culture: Let's talk about the poster for "Instant Universe". As a Chinese-American, it's fitting that you create movie posters, and "everything everywhere all at once" is a reflection of your work – a mix of different cultures and elements, but with a moment of peace in the midst of chaos. Can you tell us the story of creating the poster, and how does this film connect with you?
Concise: I've been lucky enough to work directly with Daniel Schnatt, Guillermo del Toro (the director of The Shape of Water), and others. As for the origin of this poster, A24 and the agency they worked with on the poster contacted me, added me to the list of artists they wanted to work with, and showed me a rough cut version of the film. I mainly worked with agencies during the creative process, but eventually I met Michelle Yeoh and director Daniel, and I was very happy to be accepted by the crew.
Regarding the feelings you are talking about, I feel like everyone has these different elements, thoughts, and feelings deep down. I don't know if it's more like an Asian point of view, but when I'm creating, I'm always trying to strike a balance. Many people will ask me, how do you know that a work is finished, but for me, when the work is finished, its composition and the elements within it are in a balance, and it feels like there is nothing more to do.
The Instant Universe poster is just that, with a lot of characters, themes, props and symbols, all of which are contained in a structure that resembles a Sistine zenith mural, which I really like, was painted by the 18th-century Italian painter Tiepolo. From this point of view, the characters can develop in different directions, like when you look up at the sky or the universe, there is no difference between up, down, left, right, and left. You see, Michelle Yeoh at the bottom stretches out her arms and is looking for something, at this time she doesn't know what's going on, when you turn the poster, you will find that there is also a Michelle Yeoh at the top, and she has achieved her destiny and is guiding and declaring her power. As you continue to turn, you will see that all the characters appear and the story becomes clear, but it is initially just a circle, attracting you like an eye or a black hole, which also echoes the shape of the bagels.
I love creating movie posters, it has a special feel to it, it's not like an easel painting, an illustration or a collaboration with a fashion brand. Because after watching the movie, fans will also become attached to the image of the movie poster, and the poster is also an interesting part of the movie-watching experience.
Interface Culture: Some Chinese viewers will feel that the plot is a bit too confusing and confusing when watching this film, but for you or other people who immigrated to the United States, the meaning of this sense of confusion should be very different?
Concise: Yes, I've been a fan of Daniel for a long time and am very familiar with his music videos and film work. We have similar upbringings and experiences, so that should help me understand and appreciate the film. It may seem disorganized, but the story actually reminded me of the struggles my parents had as immigrants and the sense of distance between parents and children. While generational conflict is common, the way it is presented in the film is very much in line with how Americans grew up and is very close to my life.
Interface Culture: In recent years, Asian-themed dramas and movies have been trying to break through stereotypes, such as "Angry Life", "Crazy Rich Money", and "Instant Universe". As an artist, how do you rebel against Asian-American stereotypes in your work, and how does the art field compare to that?
Concise: I'm not sure if I really have that much responsibility to "rebel" against stereotypes, but I think what's great about "Angry Life" is that it shows a very real experience, a very concrete life, a contrast between Korean-Americans who go to church and Asian-American entrepreneurs, rather than a deliberate "Asian-American theme." Viewers may feel hints of subtle ethnic conflict in the background of the story, but the story is first and foremost about these unique characters and their journeys.
It's the same for me. I don't want to be preachy or overtact, I just can't help but be myself, and when I create my work, I want the authenticity to be felt throughout, and eventually, I want that authentic identity to reach its audience.
03 The process of creation is a prayer for the unknown
Interface Culture: Going back to the common human experience, you once said that you want to express a collective myth through your work, when did you realize this? I remember you loved Jung, and how did his ideas influence your work?
Concise: I think it's everyone's nature, Jung also talked about the collective unconscious, the inheritance of ancestral memory, so I never deliberately excavated it, it just happened naturally. I've also heard the term "morphological resonance," meaning that we all share the vibrations of the universe, as well as images and memories.
For example, I have a work called "The Traveler," which is actually a commissioned work, and the girl is riding on a unicorn, and the unicorn is stirring the mud on the ground with its horns, surrounded by amphibians like frogs. A few months after I finished the work, I went to the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los Angeles and saw an ancient etching from the 15th century by a Dutch artist named Hendrick Hondius, and I was surprised to find that the composition of the painting was exactly the same as mine, with a unicorn sticking into a swamp with lizards and other animals next to it.
I've also talked about it before that this feeling is like you're traveling through time and space through your work, which often feels out of place and out of date in the context of the contemporary art world. Perhaps the echoes of Hondius are still present in the morphological resonance of the universe, and I subconsciously inherited his pictorial memory.
Another similar work is "Woodcutter", in which the image has evolved over time, first as an old man carrying firewood, then as a woman, then as a young boy. I realized that it really looked like a sculpture I had seen in Japan, and the boy with a firewood on his back and a book in his hand was the famous Japanese thinker Ninomiya Sontoku of the Edo period, who did a lot of things like educating farmers on how to keep accounts, symbolizing self-education and self-improvement. So, my work echoes a lot of historical figures or past works, and they all happened by chance.
A very revealing part of Jung's Red Book is that it tells you how to embrace intuition, how to create symbols that come from intuition. But what I feel from it may not be "inspired", but a real kinship, because when I draw sketches, I often don't know where they come from, and it's more like exploring the inner landscape. When I paint, I let dreams happen, shapes and images will naturally appear in the picture, leading from one step to the next, but I never know what the final picture will look like.
Interface Culture: Does the final picture live up to what you call intuition?
Concise: It's been a challenging process because I've always had to struggle with consciousness. I go into different stages when I'm painting, I usually don't think too much when I'm painting, but I go into a state of fully automatic flow, like a machine, and when I sketch lines, I have to think, but at the same time, I try not to think, and I struggle over and over again, and those traces on the painting are reflected in this struggle. So, I never get to paint it all the time, I have to take time to get the desired effect.
A lot of people ask me if I use psychedelics, but I don't, I still want to be as calm as possible, I don't like to be too emotional, and I don't want to use drugs to help me.
Interface Culture: Your works often remind me of the images in tarot cards, such as the virgin-like woman, innocent children, and recurring animals and plants, all of which express the subconscious universal mythological archetype, and the sculpture "Sun Tarot Wood" on display is directly based on the theme of tarot. Do you think your work is similar to that of a tarot diviner, and what are the peculiarities of art compared to prayer or divination?
Concise: I think the process of creation is almost a miracle, it's a prayer for the unknown, let inspiration flow through your body, and then create something so that other people can also enjoy and participate in this cycle of cosmic communication. For me, I always wanted to find a way to channel the divine energy through my work.
I'm not particularly religious or a tarot expert, but the way our consciousness works is really special, and it allows us to create something out of the incomprehensible. About Sun Tarot - Wood, I think it's interesting because there is a conflict between the different elements, like she has flowers growing on her body, and the flowers are beautiful, but it also looks like a skin disease or cancer, and I kind of like the tension. Her eyes look at the tarot cards, but the one facing inside is actually a mirror, so she is looking at her own reflection, and the shape of the mirror is a bit like a mobile phone, and I found that in China, many people use mobile phones as mirrors. These details are like easter eggs in movie posters that take time to become apparent.
On the one hand, it is very optimistic and positive, people get energy and vitamin D from the sun, but the sun also has a lot of harmful radiation, so the flowers absorb the sun's energy and produce leprosy on the skin.
Interface Culture: Many of your works evoke a broad human condition, such as the migrants fleeing at sea in The Journey, the boy running in the Hellfire in The Divine Comedy. Are you trying to convey a kind of warning? Curator Lu Mingjun thinks that what you depict is "not so much a mythical world as a desperate situation in which we are located", do you agree with his idea?
Concise: To be honest, I am a very pessimistic person and feel that the future is bleak and hopeless. But in contrast, my creativity gives me hope – maybe "hopeful" is not the right word, but in short, it represents a very positive side of my life. I love to create and share my work, and they inspire a lot of people to create, and people love to see my work, which gives me joy.
I wouldn't say that my inner state is hopeless, because hope lies in the constant creation and the narrative that naturally emerges in the work. Good work is always bittersweet, isn't it? Beauty always carries a certain sadness, but I think that's the poetry of artistic creation.
Interface Culture: Finally, I'd like to know, in a prolific career like yours, which undoubtedly requires a lot of attention, what attracts your attention outside of work, and what has changed between what you started in the industry 20 years ago and what appeals to you now?
Concise: I have to admit that I'm a workaholic and I don't have any other hobbies, but work has really helped me stay away from that desolate, unbelonging. I never thought I was very social and didn't go to a lot of parties, so I was so immersed in my work. But as I've gotten older and my self-confidence has grown, I've found myself less out of the ordinary. I'm just obsessed with creating images, and when I'm traveling, I take lots and lots of photos, and I can edit them very quickly.
I used to play music, and I still do, and I like to improvise on the piano, even if I don't play it well. Sometimes when I post a new work, I compose a song for the release video. I recently added a table tennis table to my studio, inspired by my experience playing table tennis with a group of artists at a gallery in Japan last summer, and I found that when you get older, you start to enjoy playing table tennis.
When I was in school, I was lucky enough to learn a lot in a short period of time, but I especially liked images. On my previous website, there was also a slogan called "Image Convention", which was a somewhat conservative, way of looking at images, and what always attracted me was the thoughtful and interesting compositions, whether they were 15th-century etchings or the work of Hong Kong photographer Ho Fan. I wanted to create something new in the midst of a very traditional way of composition and storytelling, and it was also a challenge because many artists today want to break free from that constraint, but I still appreciate the old traditional way of making images.