Over the years, there has been an event in the Mileage College, led by Walking Teachers, and the main content is to invite domestic writers and editors to comment on the works of creative writing students at various universities. This is a meritorious thing, and it is also a solid teaching. The most recent invitation to Zihe, his comments on a student work text are convincing: from point to surface, from self to world, from language to story, and the story itself, Zihe's comment is another professional creation, accurate, profound, and enlightening. Listeners gave thumbs up, including me.
Later, I found Zihe's book to read, he is very good at observation and imagination, and his words are full of compassion. This book is "Strangers".
I've heard a saying before that some writers' works are written for readers; The works of other writers are written for writers, commonly known as "writers of writers", the most typical example being Borges. "The language is concise and powerful, full of philosophy, fatalism and mystery." This category of writers and their work is extremely speculative. I think Zihe is one such kind of writer, even if his work has not been widely disseminated and read.
Zihe, a native of Qingyang, Gansu, holds a master's degree in creative writing from Chinese Minmin University. His works have appeared in magazines such as October, Poetry Magazine, West Lake, Writer, and Yangtze River Literature and Art. He is the author of the full-length non-fiction "Strangers: My Decade in Beijing" and the novella collection "Wild Bees Flying" (forthcoming).
Xiaohan: Hello Teacher Zihe, the book "Strangers" should be your representative work at present. After I read it on and off, I was in admiration. There are many pauses in my reading, always stopping to think, because you will be "asking" in the text—sometimes complete questions, sometimes even cryptic questions. In life, are you a person who is good at asking questions? Where are the questions asked?
Zihe: Hello Xiaohan teacher, thank you very much for bothering to read the humble work. In the book's preface I call these words "clunky and brute," including what you call pauses and questions. Whether it's a question or any other pause, it seems to me to be a kind of delay or dispersion, like a short pause and deviation from the route in a journey, it does affect efficiency, it is physically draining, but it can also get different experiences and even surprises through flexible viewing. It's essentially a little adventure. Asking questions is a way of thinking and a way of expression for me, and it doesn't necessarily mean that there is an answer, just because I'm confused and want to know more without knowing. Of course, that is also what I am talking to the reader, but not in the general sense of the question, but as an expression of a desire to communicate, I feel certain questions, eager to discuss and respond. In life, I am relatively silent and rarely ask questions, but I gaze, doubt and think about most things, and then try to form my own opinion.
Xiaohan: When you say this, I understand the origin of your delicate style and brushstrokes. Or rather, I feel like you're "writing" with your eyes wide open all the time. I believe this is a remarkable talent, and you seem to write down everything you see. This kind of documentary-style writing—if I say you don't object—requires a great deal of courage (in your words, "little adventures") and knowledge. How did you do it?
Zihe: Some readers commented on this book and affirmed the metaphor in it, saying that "you can see the author's efforts and talents". You say "write with your eyes open," and I understand that it means something about that. This raises an interesting question. Most writers probably want their work to look brilliant, as if acknowledging that hard labor and effort reveal a lack of talent. I don't have that concern, so I'm glad you can say that. Actually, writing this book was not easy for me, I know how much I put into it (although there may be quite a few problems), and hard work and tenacity are also necessary qualities for writers to some extent, and it is not an exaggeration to say that it is a certain talent.
I have seen some documentaries, as well as films like documentaries, such as Xu Tong's "Fortune Telling" and "Wheat Harvest", Jia Zhangke's "Xiaowu" and "Platform", Tarkovsky's "Andrei Lubulov" and "Sacrifice". I like these works, not only because of the real power displayed by the directness of the lens, the unconcealed gaze on people, the capture of the complex atmosphere and air in which people live, but also because they break through the boundaries between documentary and film to a certain extent, pointing to the existence of people. I was deeply moved by them and felt that I understood them, so I naturally absorbed these nutrients and made them part of my eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and body, and then watched, felt, thought, wrote, and thought and modified it again and again to bring it closer to what I wanted. This is general, but it doesn't seem to provide a better formulation.
Xiaohan: I split the question in two parts - in fact, I think that when you write, almost every paragraph brings your thoughts - not only eyes, not only ears, philosophies, opinions, observations and understandings of life, are all mixed in each of your works. Is this a conscious act of writing on your part? That excites you, right?
Zihe: The value of writing is first of all for the author, that is, it is first of all the author's own writing, expression and practice, and then for the reader. Therefore, the primary purpose of writing is to reflect on the perfection of self-examination, write a good article or tell a meaningful story, which is more similar to the reward for achieving this goal. Of course, this is a bit extreme, and writers are well aware of the hardships of pursuing formal writing, but it cannot deny the fundamental nature of the question: what motivates authors to seek perfection? My understanding is the core of the work, the thing in which we feel confusion and feel the desire to express it—if not vanity. So, I prefer to call what you call "realization," which is often a small leap in self-practice and discovery, brisk and uplifting, and sometimes really exciting. But this is not entirely the result of conscious writing, but somewhere between intentional and occasional, it is a realization, but first of all a feeling, a feeling that is often fleeting or even fleeting, and cannot always be intentional. In addition, I also tend to think that feelings and understandings based on specific things are also part of things to some extent, and are not completely subjective.
Zihe's photographs
Xiaohan: If I have to say, have there been any writers or works that have had a huge impact on your writing? Can you give specific examples? For example, who has been the most influential writer to you recently?
Zihe: The writers who have influenced me a lot in the last three or four years are Coetzee and William Trevor. These are two writers with very different styles, Coetzee uses precise, profound, cold and light realist brushwork to deeply describe the life dilemmas of modern people, portraying the current state of modern people, as if to filter out the essence of modern people in that kind of clear gaze; Trevor uses reminiscence, affectionate, and subtle stream-of-consciousness to explore several important moments in people's lives, expressing the spiritual world of modern people, as if to salvage the roots of modern people from the long and endless world of memories. Almost all of Coetzee's important works are long-form, but not in the sense of time span and geographical span, he tends to limit a certain problem faced by the character to a small geographical area and not a long period of time, and then gaze and dissect to gain a deep perspective. Trevor is a typical short story writer, but many of his works prefer to place an important little thing in the character in the long life, and those long past is both the source of the present life and constitutes a disorderly irony, as if life is a chaos, but fortunately people still preserve hope. They are so different, but they share a certain artistic brute force, a relentless search for freedom in literary creation, and a cautious pessimism and compassion for the world. I believe these things have had a deep impact on me.
Specific to the writing of "Stranger", it was also influenced by Liang Hongshi's "Out of Liang Zhuang", He Wei's "Jiangcheng", Alexeievich's "Secondhand Time", Truman Capote's "Cold Blood" and other non-fiction works, as well as Yu Jian's "India", Brodsky's "Less than One", Tsvetaeva's "The Devil in My Body" and other prose. I especially like the remarkable acumen and talent of these two great Russian poets, whose works are exemplars of literary creativity.
Xiaohan: In writing, you use a lot of metaphors, and I think that's your preference for writing. Do metaphors sometimes affect the accuracy of written expression? Or do you have to be accurate in order to use metaphors?
Zihe: I prefer to call it a metaphor, if the metaphor is to say it more vividly and clearly, it is to talk about things, then metaphor is to say more and deeper, it leads people's feelings behind and beyond the metaphor through similarity, like a certain energy wave, to more and farther places. There is a larger sensory space between the metaphor and its ontology, and therefore more enlightening. A metaphor is good or bad often depends on the size of this enlightening space. So for the metaphor, accuracy is only a basic level requirement, not important (as if the shape is not the most important for painting), what is important is whether the metaphor can provide enough sensory space and whether it has penetration.
Rice: Inspired. I feel that Teacher Zihe is a wise person, and at the same time, I can also feel that Teacher Zihe is a gentle person. Do you think moderation is a character, or a talent? Some people say that moderation can run through a person's cultivation and cognition, do you agree?
Zihe: It's hard to say whether it's character or talent, it's even part of cultivation, because people are often entangled in many factors and can't be distinguished. I admire and even yearn for moderation, which I see as a state that can be cultivated, gentleness, neutrality, serenity, and in my imagination, these points necessarily lead to sincerity, openness, depth, and then perseverance, transparency, and wisdom. I imagine that Confucius is such a person, Su Dongpo is probably the same, Chekhov is too, and Trevor is too.
Xiaohan: You listed a lot of literary and video works earlier, some of which are very "avant-garde" and "experimental". So before writing, do you seriously consider metaphysical questions such as the theme of a work?
Zihe: I think about the theme, but some of the thinking can be clear and useful, while some are not easy to think through, or turned in the writing process, or abandoned in the writing process. For example, this "Stranger", which originally wanted to record the wandering life of foreigners like me in Beijing, this theme connected the basic content of the work, but when I revised it substantively, I realized that I should paint a social microcosm of a dramatically changing China, which made me consciously reinforce the part of the book that is outside Beijing of those foreigners - that is, I want to portray not a miniature of Beijing, but a miniature of China, which is not exalted, but I realize. It is logical to place such an idea in these trivial stories of Beijing strangers, otherwise it is a waste of the subject matter. Of course, this is just a simple statement, but I hope that there is more than this in my work, because the themes of good work are often diverse, and many important parts of it may arise from the writing process rather than planning ahead.
Xiaohan: You mentioned an important theme or issue. I think you have fully explored or presented some of the answers through the book "Strangers". So is there a topic you've always wanted to explore, but didn't have the opportunity or courage to write about?
Zihe: The value of modern literature lies in exploring the different living conditions and embarrassments of modern people, but in fact, modern people do face many problems, which contain a lot of literary themes and materials. For example, the spiritual and physical wandering and flight of contemporary people, the question of the death of contemporary people, the relationship between pre-contemporary history and contemporary people, I am very interested, of course, almost all of them are put into action, but I try to create the conditions to try. The problem is that it often feels overwhelmed, having previously seen Woolf talk about fiction, writing: "I believe that when you start a novel, the most important thing is not to feel that you can write it, but to feel that it is there, on the other side of the chasm that words are powerless to cross: you can only approach it with a sigh of despair." "Deeply touched, I hope I get more than a sigh of despair from her.
Xiaohan: It reminds me that writing failure has become a trend nowadays (popularity is not a mistake), but the appearance of failure is not consistent in every writer's pen. What exactly is your failure? How can you tell the difference between failures and mistakes in life?
Zihe: That's true, and I think especially in times like this, it should be like this: rather than success and joy, literature should write more about failures and pains, focusing on the truth, otherwise it is immoral, because this is what most ordinary people often face in life. Successful celebrations abound, there are many forms of recording, such as news, newspapers, variety shows, music, film and television, celebrations, etc., and the body's acceptance of happiness is natural and can be digested by everyone instantly. Failure and pain are different, they are something that almost everyone must face in their lives, and they are also an important way for people to grow themselves, when they exist in the form of literature, on the one hand, as an educational path, on the other hand, when people are desperate and helpless - no one can deny how many people find comfort from pain stories. In addition, if literature can provide certain spiritual things, people can indeed acquire certain spiritual things and achieve growth, and the way to do so is inevitably failure and pain.
Some people say that "Stranger" is too gray, but others lament the survival (in short, the tenacity of repeated defeats), and I think these two views are an interpretation in themselves. For people, failure is not some kind of iconic ending, because there are different values, and there is no standard for failure. So I didn't think that I wrote about failure, I prefer to think that I wrote about the difficult state of people in adversity or difficulties, not a conclusion, such as the protagonist of "Little Tailor", he has been in gray adversity for many years but still fights, does he fail? I find it hard to say that. I don't shape a failed person to show failure, nor do I shape a successful person to show success. I think literature should focus on the person himself, with his joys and sorrows and the problems he faces, whether he is in good times or bad.
"Strangers: My Decade in Beijing", Shanghai Literature and Art Publishing House, February 2023 edition
Xiaohan: There are all kinds of people, perhaps the most lacking in the world is "characters", so what kind of people will become your characters? What are you more interested in a person?
Zihe: People who are out of place, unfortunate people, miserable people, and lonely people are more likely to arouse my interest. It may have something to do with my origin and upbringing, but also with my temperament. I was born in a rural village in eastern Gansu, arid and poor, and my life was full of excessive poverty, toil, stubbornness, endurance, loneliness, anxiety, misunderstanding, simplicity, malice, disease, barbarism, cursing, strife, violence, beatings, and many homeless and abandoned people. I'm sensitive by nature, but I'm also straightforward and often compassionate, so it's easy to pay attention to such things. I think literature is compassion, probably because of that. For me, writing means how I see these things, it means that I need to measure these things with my life—and that's why I say that writing is first and foremost my personal matter, and I have deliberately marked in some works what they mean to me personally. Coetzee said that all biography is writing, and all writing is biography, and I agree. I am more concerned with human silence, defiance, and kindness.
Xiaohan: Some people say that the cold Coetzee is a cat-type personality, and the more enthusiastic Auster is a dog-type personality. I think many good writers have a remarkable love or attachment that is beyond ordinary people; Another kind of excellence, embodied in outstanding calmness and rationality. I guess you're not a passionate writer, but which one would you rather be?
Zihe: I'm neither. But I hope that I can learn a kind of rational attachment and be able to complete the work I have in mind under the guidance of this quality and ability. I think this way because reason may lead me to explore freer literary ideas and methods, and persistence allows me to overcome difficulties and complete them.
Xiaohan: Most people think that today's society is full of negative factors and difficulties, even unsolvable, and generations will be trapped in them. Is the role of literature to reflect reality, or is it a way to solve problems? In such a situation, will your writing posture change?
Zihe: Society is indeed full of problems now, and it may take generations to be trapped in it, but from a historical point of view, this is also the norm. The solution of these important problems may require more generations of efforts and struggles, and of course, other problems will arise when these problems are solved. This is sometimes pessimistic, but I would like to believe that society will move forward in the general trend, and the combined forces of social development will not allow it to move backward. But there is no reason to expect literature to directly solve these problems, or even to directly reflect these problems - in fact, literature does not have this ability at all, and there is no need to exaggerate or expect extravagance. What a weak part of literature in society as a whole, it exists not because of its role in the good of society (the role of literature is nothing more than recording and presenting, to a certain extent, which is too little compared to the role of politics, economics, and law), but because of its importance to the individual - this importance lies in the fact that it retains a variety of individuals, so that readers understand that people in this world are not only prescribed types, it retains human spirit and desires, Let the reader understand that the real person in this world is never one-way, it also preserves the era and history to a high extent, so that the reader can understand what the world used to be like even if not through history - it can be said that literature resists all totalitarianism in this indirect way - in addition, and most importantly, excellent and great literature, beyond both political reality and moral and cultural reality, shows human pity, hatefulness, loveliness, shows the horror of evil in human nature and the honorability of good. Human history is changing, and the problems it faces are also changing, but human nature and human conscience are immutable, so it can be said that the role of literature in society is not to change anything, but to hold on to and resist something with the truth of the written person as a human being. Literature acquires its independence and freedom by virtue of these qualities, and thus also from its subordination to anything, otherwise it becomes a puppet and loses itself if it is not careful. Of course, such literature is, first of all, true, comfortable, sincere literature, not false, propaganda, ostentatious literature.
Xiaohan: Teacher Zihe, if you are in a period of relatively smooth writing, can you predict when you will fall into the trough of writing in the future? Can the cause of this trough be predicted? Will there be any loss of speech due to what circumstances?
Zihe: I imagined that the biggest difficulty was that almost everything I wrote could not be published and published, which would be very uncomfortable and hit me hard, but at the same time I also hinted to myself that even then I could write and at least finish what I wanted to say. In fact, if that is the case, it is difficult to say whether this kind of self-encouragement is useful or not. The state of aphasia arises from the loss of confidence and trust, that is, no longer believing in oneself, no longer believing in the value of literature, so I say that I hope that I have a rational attachment, which is more able to maintain confidence and trust.
Xiaohan: Have you ever thought about pursuing a career other than writing? For example, if you became an actor, what kind of actor would it be? What kind of role would you be interested in?
Zihe: It's hard to imagine what kind of actor I will be, I don't know about actors. But if I had a choice, I would play a wandering monk, or a traveler, measuring the earth with the strength of his feet, and practicing his feet.
Xiaohan: My last question is a bit "trendy" or the other way around. Regarding some basic information about you, I tried to ask about AI intelligent software before - but I am now ready to ask you the other way around, if you were the AI software itself, how would you evaluate yourself in dozens of words, who is Zihe? Please try not to throw this problem at any AI software at this moment...
Zihe: I'm curious how AI will answer this question, but I haven't thrown it to AI. If I were an AI, I would probably be a little overwhelmed at first when faced with your question, because this person is a complete nobody, he has written some poetry, some novels and essays, but these traces are too limited to be worth asking. I might say: he needs to work more to be himself.
(Xiaohan, writer, former media personality, freelancer.) ）