210Talk | Talk to the big guy about Anime 23
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In 2018, "Heroes of Gastronomic Adventure" came out, as the first animation film produced by Sun Haipeng, its brain-opening character setting, witty drawing style and excellent three-dimensional animation technology have begun to emerge in the Chinese animation industry.
Three years later, "The Lion Boy" landed in theaters. With better quality and more realistic subject matter, Sun Haipeng and his works have become the object of heated discussion and even debate.
In the circle, such achievements are really shocking: how a small team can complete the creation of two big movies in a short period of time, and what is even more surprising is that the two works are very different in terms of topic selection and content, and the leap-forward improvement of production level is visible to the naked eye...
With such a fast and sophisticated animation film production, what choices did Sun Haipeng and his team make right?
How do they view the Chinese animation film market and how do they optimize the production process?
As an animation director who has been in the industry for nearly 20 years, how does Sun Haipeng maintain his ability and speed of continuous evolution?
Today, two o'clock is very animated, and Sun Haipeng, director of "Lion Boy", is invited to talk about the advanced road of an animation director.
210 viewpoints
In scrawled imagery
Sketch a realistic story that is specific enough
Although the "Food Adventure" and "Lion Boy" series are both written by Sun Haipeng, the two do not have much intersection in terms of story selection and art style: the former is an anthropomorphic fantasy story, while the latter is based on the local environment and the real world.
This difference in subject matter raises the first difficult question for the creators of the story: how to quickly and accurately find the aspect that can resonate with the public from the vague imagery to form a clear and clear main axis.
Two points and ten points: Why did you just finish filming "Food Adventure" and plunge into the production process of "Lion Boy" so quickly, what did you go through during the transition period?
Sun Haipeng: Actually, that was my most painful and confused stage. On the one hand, I am not reconciled to the existing achievements, and I want to work with the team to do higher quality works, but on the other hand, the very real problem is that we have no money. At this time, the pressure is how to maintain the whole team without dispersing, because we have the same concept, the work has tacit understanding, and it is not easy to get together. So we had to find a project that we could do next, and "The Lion Boy" came into being.
Two points and ten points: You can so quickly determine what elements you saw in the filming of "The Lion Boy"?
Sun Haipeng: It's emotions. When the first draft came out, the script was not perfect enough. But we felt that the emotions were enough to support the whole story, so we changed the script while drawing the storyboard. The revision of the script continued throughout the production process.
Because our initial goal was to complete the project within two years. So a lot of our links are parallel. For example, when the script was still being revised, we actually started drawing storyboards. Because we know the most important part of his story is its emotions. As long as the emotions can be retained, then some other minor repairs can be adjusted.
Two points and ten points: What emotions ignite everyone's confidence?
Sun Haipeng: "The Lion Boy" is actually the last one we saw when we selected the script, and at that time, it was not even a script, only a few keywords. I remember "running like a dog", "the sky", "youthfulness" and so on.
The screenwriting teacher is also from Guangdong, and he and I are willing to show a sense of youth through the theme of lion dance, so it just "bumped" into it. The whole story is not complicated, and some places are not particularly perfect so far, in fact, if you cut it carefully, you can polish it for a long time.
But after all, it is a commercial project, so time is more important. Our first task is to make this emotion that can move people well in this story, and do it well, do it well, and do it fully. The rest of the parts, even if they have a little flaw, are not likely to affect the completion of the whole story. So based on this idea, it started very quickly.
Two points and ten points: Is there an expected survey of the market reaction to the lion dance theme during planning?
Sun Haipeng: No. I think the original thing doesn't actually need to do too much research. Research only makes you uncertain. The results of the survey can be guessed. It is nothing more than "there is a perception in Guangdong, but it is not out of the circle", or it feels "too earthy". But just because everyone thinks it's good doesn't mean that it's a good story to make. No matter what the subject matter, the final thing that moves people is the story. This empathic side that moves the audience is the most important.
Our next projects should not do large-scale research and move forward according to our own sense of smell. Because making a movie, especially in the early stages, is a "author-oriented" thing, it is actually more like a work of art. After the script is formed, it can be said that it is an industrial production process. But when it comes to creation, it must be a sentimental thing that depends very much on the state of the creator.
210 viewpoints
In an uncertain production
Self-examination with product thinking
Although the accumulation of the artistic level is an important guarantee for the quality of the work, as a commercial work, it is indispensable to jump out of the artistic framework and examine itself with the logic and perspective of the product.
For the "Lion Boy" team, which has a tightly funded team, behind this examination is both the expectation and adjustment of the audience's motivation to watch the movie, as well as the team's self-persuasion and stable judgment.
Two points: What was the risk that impressed you the most during the entire production process?
Sun Haipeng: In the early days, everyone actually had a certain confusion, that is, why did this film use animation to do it? What will it look like in the end? Everyone's heart is bottomless. Even in the middle of the production, some colleagues felt that there was no hope for this film and left. But as our shots began to show up, especially after the rendering shots were more, everyone slowly eliminated this doubt, and finally moved forward with more confidence.
Two points and ten points: Why is the story of the lion dance done with animation, and what is the most powerful reason for us to persuade our partners?
Sun Haipeng: Actually, there is no reason to be convinced, because we do animation. The lion dance action is made through animation, which must be better than the actual shooting. It's just that in the process of the story landing, including the emotions interspersed in the middle, it is less like the emotion of a cartoon, which is where everyone feels uncertain. But I've always had a feeling in my heart that I think it should be good to do this, so I've always insisted on that.
Two points: I understand that if this movie wants to be a box office success, one of the problems to be broken through is how to make people who are not interested in animation willing to buy tickets to the cinema to see "The Lion Boy". How do we contribute to this effect?
Sun Haipeng: The work I can do is mainly in the material, that is, to highlight the realism of the scene as much as possible, and it looks closer to the actual shooting, so as to offset some of the audience's doubts about the animation. Including the design of the poster, we did not focus on rendering, and even the poster behind us basically drew by hand, which is also based on this purpose. We didn't really want that three-dimensional animation to feel too strong, so we just used the hand-drawn method to make it a little more stylized.
210 viewpoints
Under limited resources
Manage project risks with technical means
Even in the era when new domestic animation works are overwhelming, works with unique styles and visual impact are still quite rare and expensive, and various problems encountered in the production process may prolong the production cycle.
For "Lion Boy", which took more than 2 years to complete the production, its project management process, technical details and risk control are the focus of our attention.
Two points and ten points: "The Lion Boy" only took 2 years and 3 months to complete the whole process from planning to production, what process is used?
Sun Haipeng: In fact, the whole process is much more chaotic than everyone thinks, because we haven't done a project for a long time. But several of our creators have been working together for many years, and we have a tacit understanding of each other. So there are a lot of obstacles, in fact, we rely on our personal ability to fight. In hindsight, we could have been faster.
But there are a few practices that are important reasons why we now seem to be able to do it quickly. For example, the lighting link, we extend it backwards. The traditional production method is layered and seems to be flexible, but in fact, it is a great test of the compositor's ability. Then we simply do not synthesize, directly and violently render it in the shot, putting motion blur, depth of field, volumetric fog all together, so that it can be seamlessly connected with special effects.
In addition, it is to put all the processes on the same software, the last "Food Adventure" is still produced separately from two software, and it is particularly painful to lead a large amount of data in the middle. So this time we merged into the same software Houdini, using a particularly simple and violent way to render the composition. We can ensure that the final effect of the film is uniform and will not make low-level mistakes.
Another is to solve this piece, the workload is actually very large. We use more realistic light and shadow, without deliberate cartoonatization. Because now the renderer is actually very mature, as long as it is not anti-physical, the result is basically correct. So our whole lighting and mirror movement are very close to the real shot, because I think this is the fastest.
Especially when it comes to the action scene of the lion dance. The hair, cloth, etc. on the lion's head will be tested very rigorously and made according to scientific physical effects. But after we finished the project, we directly threw it on the server to run, and in the process of running, we found that there was a problem and then fine-tuned. So more than 90% of our solutions were done by the special effects supervisor himself. During the production of the entire film, the number of our team was only sixty or seventy people at most, which was still in the case that the special effects rendering was basically not packaged.
The core idea is to be as scientific as possible, not to confront existing technology, and to leave it to computers as much as possible. If there is a flaw, if it is a small problem, we ignore it, as long as its overall effect is good, it does not seem to be too much of a problem.
Two points: What will the creative team argue about?
Sun Haipeng: Mainly in aesthetics. The second is the timing of the arrangement. But there are hardly any big problems.
Two points and ten points: Is there any need for rework during the production process, especially in the middle and late stages? How to solve it?
Sun Haipeng: In fact, I have been reworking. Our method of repeating rendering may seem to the more traditional concept of being a complete waste of money. We rendered a single sample more than 30 times. In the Layout phase, we render it quickly. After that, I will improve the light and shadow effects and render them over and over again. At that time, the characters' clothes were all dressed in a mess, and there was no hair.
But we found out where there was a problem, modified the problem, and then directly threw the computer to go, and the next day to see it again. Try not to delay until the later stage to make up for the big ones. And since we were rendering from the beginning, we knew what the rendered effect would be. There are some places where we have to do a little more adequately, and some places where we don't care. It's also a benefit for productivity and communication costs.
Another problem is changing the script. We're still changing the script until August 2020, four months before the release. At that time, there were two scenes that were entangled, and I was worried that I would not be able to finish it and decided to postpone it. We stopped and went for an audience test. The audience told us what was not going well, similar to our own psychological expectations at the time. So we decided, or risking it, to change it. So in August, we overturned a few scenes and re-revised them from the script level.
Our team has long adapted to this kind of subversive modification and has psychological expectations when creating. The last people who survived were the ones who were most in tune with their working methods and philosophies.
Two points and ten points: You just mentioned that 90% of the solution is done by the special effects supervisor alone, does he have any unique working methods?
Sun Haipeng: His method of work is to be as scientific as possible. Secondly, aesthetic ability is more important. Because technical problems are good to communicate, but aesthetics are actually unable to communicate. It's hard to tell where the good or bad looks are. Only by aesthetically pleasing oneself can the probability of rework be reduced.
Two points: If we hadn't adopted this method of frequent rendering iterations, using a series structure to coordinate the film production cycle, how much slower would it be than it is now?
Sun Haipeng: I think it may be half a year to a year slower.
210 viewpoints
In a local cultural context
Use differences to dissipate aesthetic fatigue
Embracing traditional culture and exploring traditional themes is a common choice for domestic animation at present, which will more or less lead to a certain aesthetic fatigue and burnout in market feedback. How "Lion Boy" establishes its own way of linking with the audience in a number of "national style" works to dissolve this fatigue of traditional themes is also part of our curiosity.
Two points and ten points: I noticed that you spent a year to collect wind in villages and towns in Guangdong, why do you attach so much importance to this step?
Sun Haipeng: The style collection is carried out simultaneously with film production. When I wrote the script, I started looking for scenes in the village. In fact, we didn't think of such a large-scale collection before, but we found that we couldn't make that taste. If you look at China in Hollywood movies, although the scenes are all Chinese scenes, it just feels like it is not our own life. We must not make this mistake. Thanks to the step of collecting style, the final picture presented, the audience can still feel our intentions.
Two points and ten points: How is the result of the wind collection perceived by the audience?
Sun Haipeng: The timeline of the plot in the whole film spans one year, and we have restored the vegetation of Guangdong, including all kinds of flowers such as kapok, banyan trees, and sheepshoe nails, in the spring, summer, autumn and winter. Although most people look like they have always been green, Cantonese people can actually see how they change with the seasons.
That's part of what I insist on doing. At first, I didn't hope that the audience would be able to see it, but in the end, it turned out that the audience did carefully capture it, and also listed when the flowers, fruits, and fallen leaves were all listed, which made me particularly surprised and surprised.
Two points and ten points: In the audience response, is there anything that makes you more profound?
Sun Haipeng: I was more impressed by some lion dancers. They are really supportive of this movie. And they behave very tolerantly.
We were worried that we had changed a lot of the rules of the lion dance, such as raising the stakes and adding an Optimus Prime, which is something that the traditional lion dance does not have. We also changed the instruments of the lion dance, only a drum, no gongs and cymbals. There are a lot of things that seem unprofessional, but they've all been modified like this for the effect of the movie.
The lion dancers did not mind, they said that through this movie, many ordinary people were interested in lion dance, which was good for their sport. On the contrary, there are some folk scholars who study lion dances, or simply some people who do not understand, they will be more entangled in these problems.
210 viewpoints
The success or failure of commercial films
More depends on the needs of the team
For a long time after the release, "Lion Boy" still became the core of the market and public opinion, some people say that this work is a pioneering move to break the comfort zone of domestic animation, and some people feel that this is "the frustration suffered by catering to overseas aesthetics", so how is Sun Haipeng and his team judged this final merit?
Two points and ten points: Your team, as I understand it, is a director's studio model, and you have the most elite people on your side. Is this different from a production company with hundreds of people in terms of effect and process?
Sun Haipeng: The difference in process will not be large. In a production company with hundreds of people, the process control will be stricter, more industrialized, and the division of labor will be fine and clear. However, when making movies, there are high requirements for the quality control ability of the person in charge of several links. The same is true of Disney, which needs the most critical few people to efficiently control the final overall effect.
Two points and ten points: I see you said in an interview in 2018, "Teams that outsource more projects will prefer to meet the identified needs." But making a movie it's actually about grinding out the ultimate aesthetic. Has this view changed?
Sun Haipeng: There is no change, do a good film work, to minimize flaws, including a lot of details in the movie, you actually can't think so carefully in the script stage, and you can't think so fine in the shot stage. It's only when it gets to the rendering stage that you can grind it out little by little. That means revising it over and over again, and there's nothing you can do about it.
But it may also be because I didn't reach a level where I was able to come up with a particularly precise idea of what each shot should look like upfront. But you're going to make a movie, because you have to spend your own money, you can't just let it go. Try to add the good points as much as possible, because it will eventually affect the mood of the audience.
From my personal understanding, a big difference between originality and outsourcing is that outsourcing may be more industrial, and it is good to process it according to order, but not for movies. When making originals, the creation runs through the entire production process, and everyone has expectations in mind, and the default is that each shot may be taken back and reworked at any time, so our process will be designed to be very flexible, ready at any time, and go through it again from the asset stage.
Two points: So according to your point of view, when a team that is good at outsourcing transforms into a movie, the conversion cost is relatively high?
Sun Haipeng: Yes, it must be so. Switching between these two types of companies is actually quite troublesome. For example, if I switched to a pure outsourcing company, it was actually quite painful. Because there are a lot of things that we have to think about while doing it, but to fix it very sure, this is very painful for us. If an outsourcing company wants to transform into an original, entering an uncertain state that may be readjusted at any time, in fact, everyone will be easily overwhelmed. So there is still some gap between these two models.
After all the dust settled, with the praise, denigration, achievements and lessons after "The Lion Boy", Sun Haipeng threw himself into the production of new animated films non-stop.
Just like when he finished his animated film debut and took the team that was about to be disbanded into "The Lion Boy".
At that time, he also vaguely thought about whether his films would be accepted by people, whether everything he conveyed would be misunderstood or ignored, and worse, perhaps... This more expensive and challenging work may not be able to be truly completed until the funds are exhausted.
Fortunately, things are not going in the worst direction. And all of this is continuing to give him the power to complete the next "miracle".
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What impressed you most about Lion Boy?