American musician and filmmaker Amanda Kramer was selected as the focal filmmaker for the 2022 Rotterdam Film Festival (IFFR), and her latest works, Please Baby Please (2022) and Give Me Pity (2022), and previous films Paris Window (2018) and Women's Survival Park (Ladyworld, 2018) was screened online during the festival with four short films. In Please Baby, Andrea Riseborough and Harry Meilling play a 50s newlywed couple who encounter a violent motorcycle gang in front of their apartment building, transforming their thinking about gender roles and sexual awakening. Played by Sophie von Haselberg as a TV talk show host, "Mercy to Me" celebrates the "diva culture" that peaked in the '70s and '80s, as well as the performer's alternative self on stage.
Amanda Kramer's films, with their strong sense of retro, irreplaceable drama, musicality and physical richness, stem from the filmmaker's deep reflection on cinema as a medium and art form, with a distinct personal banner, provocation, contempt, experimentality and refreshing boldness.
Chen Yunhua (hereinafter referred to as "CYH"): There is a strong and original force in your films, reconstructing the aesthetics of cinema through provocation and experimentation, which makes your films unique in today's film industry. Can you talk about where your ideas about cinematic aesthetics come from?
Amanda Kramer : I consider myself a collage artist, so my answer is: everywhere. Fine art, video art, music, film, literature, dance, conversation, fashion, drama, dreams, fantasy, history, interior design, architecture, all these are all things that observers and thinkers can achieve. Cinema needs an implosive framework, and the medium is begging for more rulebreakers, radicals, experimenters, and media jumpers. My cinematic aesthetic comes primarily from other art forms, art forms that don't revolve around typical thinking about film grammar and language, non-traditional plot design, non-linear narratives. I'm a writer first and foremost, so I'm convinced of my texts, but in the end I'm actually an iconographer. Derrida said that images always have the last word to say. I don't argue with Derrida.
CYH: Formally, Baby Please and Give Me Mercy strongly oppose classic filmmaking conventions such as set shots, glossiness, color correction, and false realism and naturalism. In terms of subject matter, "Please Baby", "Give Me Mercy", and your previous films have focused on releasing gender identity and female identity that are restricted by various rules and regulations. How do you see the convergence between film form and content in your filmmaking?
AK: Acting is a central theme in all my work and a central theme in my filmmaking. Maybe my films are playing "movie" characters, maybe their more real identities are vague and uncertain. Are people afraid of tonal confusion, ambiguity, mystery, or misconceptions and misinterpretations in our industry? Do people really crave these marginal spaces? When art is labeled "bad" because it is "arrogant," "obscure," and "pretentious," we lose a line of thought. Art is human nature, consciousness, key and necessary. Art in film can be enjoyable and entertaining, and if more artists are allowed to make uninterrupted voices in Hollywood, it can become a reality for the market. I don't think my films fit into a certain genre or a certain exact box, and I don't shoot my films with a single tone or instruction. My goal is to surprise people both in content and form.
CYH: You wrote about "modern ugliness" on talkhouse.com website, and that naturally resonated a lot. Is this a manifesto for emerging cinema?
AK: I never write manifestos self-righteously, but I do feel very strongly about the fact that filmmaking is currently frantically leading itself toward flashiness, technocracy, mistaking budget levels for style, and so on. I feel embarrassed to hear filmmakers continue to talk about their love for Casawitz and Fassbinder, but insist that they can't finish a film for less than five million dollars. Money is a necessity for production — I'm not a kid, I understand capitalism — but the whole industry is out of control. Now, movies that aren't shot in the fashion, commercial, latest style of Netflix original movies or corporate ads are scoffed at as low-budget or "indie movies," a joke in itself. I am struck by the fact that most people don't see the clichés in these works. I like a quote from Dolly Parton: "It costs a lot of money to look so cheap". She may also be discussing Hollywood clichés.
CYH: These issues are deeply ingrained throughout the food chain, from film school to production, distribution and consumption. What are your thoughts on this?
AK: My thoughts are: fuck it. These are myths worth breaking. We still admire filmmakers who made Pi, Eraserhead, Following, and El Mariachi, men who collectively think of them as artistically or financially successful with a bank-robbing budget. But the truth is, change can't start with the artists themselves – because dedicated artists make their work with whatever restrictions – change has to start with film festivals and strong actors. Film festival selectors need to be more visionary (yes, I know they've all claimed to do so) rather than focusing on "stars" or budget ranks. Almost every festival has a mission statement that includes phrases like "push boundaries" or "push the limits," and they're responsible for saying that and they really do. Their recognition has largely shaken up limited artistic channels in the media and industry. Next, A-list stars who can give the green light to filmmaking just by saying "yes" need to expand their aesthetics. It's time to admit that rather than risking an obscure but vivid self-made film that might cause too much damage, it's better to say that they have to bear even more of a loss when they lead a clueless Hollywood failure. Emma Stone, who is working with Sarah Winshall to make the next film for Jane Schoenbrun, an avant-garde, thoughtful filmmaker whose debut film, We're All Going To The World's Fair (2021), transcends the weird realm and into deep humanity. Emma Stone's move is impressive, respectable, cool, and makes a difference.
CYH: Whether cinema is art and to what extent cinema is art has been a constant subject of discussion and debate; the Film Handbook and the French New Wave era have been deeply debated, and are being discussed in an era that is now overwhelmed by a lot of audiovisual content, and I think you have taken a very clear position in this regard. How do you see film as a medium that integrates different art forms for artistic expression?
AK: Hire artists to light up your filmmaking; hire artists to conceive and design sets and prepare costumes; hire artists to shoot your shots; hire artists to score your films, design sound effects and mixes; hire artists to edit because they're co-writers and therefore have to be visionaries; hire actors you think you can elevate your work, not because they're famous, but because they're radiant, gripping, and glamorous, because they're a sign of life for your work. If your projects are filled with collaborators who can bring out-of-system influence, different artistic inspirations, and unique ideas, your work will be doubly good, your own personal artistic expression will be amplified, and your film will not be similar to other films, but will be unique and provocative.
CYH: I especially want to know how you see the intersection of film and theater and how drama becomes part of film.
AK: There's a joke that serious actors come back to the theater to do "real work" after they become famous, right? It's a meaningful concept — that movies can definitely avoid nonsense, that drama can be chaotic and irrelevant — but we get the core meaning here. Drama has no tricks, drama has no editing, no post-processing, no polishing, no cue cards, no musical score that projects emotions, no barriers between you and the audience. Drama is alive, it breathes, it dies too – it's not as immortal as movies. There are no close-ups in theatrical performances, nor can they whisper; it is plump and therefore "dramatic". Drama is fake because it is flat like a painting. There is a sense of immersion (drama) and a feeling of being more immersive than real (movie). I want both, I want all of them, all the potential to create hyper-sensory work, including shots, music, effects and specific camera movements, and I also want illusions, performative acting, rehearsals, whatever breath/life can be preserved. I don't think there's anything to it about. Film is a huge medium and should have room for those of us who want to play with two jump ropes.
CYH: What prompted you to turn to filmmaking after years of leading your own underground dance brand in Los Angeles?
AK: I think image making is more appealing to me than sound making. Plus, I wanted to get off the stage, stop touring, and stop pretending I had anything akin to singing. The experience of organizing the works of other musicians has been deeply inspiring for my filmmaking, but what I'm best suited for is writing and delivering ideas. And I know that if some medium can challenge or strike, push and define myself, it will be the work of the writer and director, not the music.
CYH: Your filmmaking is bold and you have to take a certain amount of risk, but you can keep making movies and stay productive in this expensive art form. How did you do that?
AK: It can be done, and it can't be done. I don't like to take away art and partnership rights, but I've had to do it for years because I need a lot of help, like unpaid jobs, low-paid jobs, extra time, some not to be rude, some to be rude. Every movie is a miracle and a struggle. I'm not a liar, but I'm a solicitor, and this kind of solicitation is my way of getting funding and getting it done for my films.
CYH: Your dance experience can be strongly felt in the physical performance of the main actors in your film. How do you see your film as a "spectacle" that is a rebellion against the "spectacle" of Hollywood?
AK: Dance is a very important part of my life and I wish there was less difference between dance and film, or between song and film, because I don't like the baggage of "musical theater". I always add spectacle elements to my work because I deal with fantasy and dream/nightmare realities and have no desire to depict the real world. My fascination with wonder led me to discover that what I wanted to do was not just to make the characters reveal themselves through simple dialogue, but also through Noh, Ghibli, pantomime, modern dance, classic choreography, singing duets, karaoke. Hollywood has been playing with these forms, but Hollywood needs labels, genres, and categories to define, and I don't.
CYH: In Baby Please and Give Me Mercy, you work with fascinating women like Andrea Lisborough, Sophie von Hasselberg, and Demi Moore, and bring out their unique side. How did you work with them?
AK: I'm not casting out of frustration or laziness, I'm casting out of real fan psychology and adoration, but also out of curiosity and respect. I want to direct these women, and you can see why in my films. They are stylish and elegant and full of surprises, charming and irresistible, playful and ironic. They are dedicated and persistent, and they are all very kind. All three of these guys were brilliant on set, they were all lethal in my shots, and working with them was the happiest thing, and what I saw in the symbols they brought, maybe something that a lot of other people didn't see, maybe even they didn't see it themselves, and I just wanted to highlight and show the new energy in them.
Film scholar, film critic and author, and host of the podcast show Reel Chats.
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