On October 10, 2020, the 4th Pingyao International Film Festival was officially opened in Shanxi. As the first master class event of the film festival, China's fifth-generation director Tian Zhuangzhuang parachuted into Pingyao to hold a dialogue with another famous Chinese director, Jia Zhangke. During the period, the two chatted about Tian Zhuangzhuang's many experiences since entering the industry, and shared a lot of behind-the-scenes creative anecdotes and dry goods. Tian Zhuangzhuang said that in the end, the film expresses a kind of self-feeling, and the feeling is always easier to impress him. Talking about young Chinese directors, he said that they are a generation that is easy to hesitate because of the market, and he will still help them as he helps Wang Xiaoshuai's generation of directors. This is not only out of love for movies, but also out of care for a new generation of Chinese filmmakers.
Editing, typography 丨Zed
Jia Zhangke: Good morning, welcome to the 4th Pingyao International Film Festival, today is the first day of the Pingyao International Film Festival, and then our first event was at the "Spring in a Small Town" theater, we welcomed the film director Tian Zhuangzhuang, let us welcome him with warm applause.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Hello, everyone.
Jia Zhangke: First of all, we warmly welcome Director Tian, I think this space is very meaningful to do this activity, and it is also a dream moment for our Pingyao International Film Festival, because everyone knows that this theater is named after Director Fei Mu's famous work, "Spring in a Small Town" in 1948, it is a peak in the history of Chinese film aesthetics, so after many years, Director Tian Zhuangzhuang remade "Spring in a Small Town", and the remake of "Spring in a Small Town" also won the grand prize of the Venice International Film Festival that year. It can be said that there are two such aesthetic peaks in the history of Chinese cinema, and this time such a fate will allow Director Tian to come here and talk to you about movies! I think it is a very good start for the fourth Pingyao International Film Festival, so we named this one "Small Town and Spring", because indeed after seven or eight months of epidemic, we need to take such a care of each other, we need to get a kind of film power from the previous directors, Director Tian has injected creativity into Chinese films since he started his career, injected fresh perspectives into world films, and promoted the film industry in all directions, I think he is the most suitable candidate to encourage and cheer for our young people , to promote the recovery of Chinese films and world films.
Zhuang Zhuang director he has multiple identities, but are closely related to the film, first of all, he is a director, as we all know, from the early "Red Elephant", "Hunting Ground Zasa", "Horse Thief", including the "Rock and Roll Youth" that I was most willing to watch when I was young, because there was break dance in it, all the way to "The Great Eunuch Li Lianying", to "Blue Kite", "Wu Qingyuan", to the recent "Birdsong", it can be said that the creativity is very exuberant. On the other hand, in recent years, we have also seen a lot of roles created by director Tian on the screen, including "Later Us", including "Blind Love", and he has also helped many directors complete their works. On the other hand, as early as the 1990s, zhuangzhuang director was a famous executive producer, he cooperated with wang Xiaoshuai and other well-known directors to help them make their early films, and to this day he is still engaged in supervising production work, helping young people, last year we had an award-winning film at the Pingyao International Film Festival called "Over Spring", which won the Best Director Award of Fei Mu's honor, and the supervising producer is Zhuangzhuang director. At the same time, he is also a professor of film studies, he is engaged in film teaching at the Beijing Film Academy, at Shanghai University, and I think he has a very rich experience in film, and he will definitely bring you the spirit of film today. Just chatted with the strong director said that he came to Pingyao once before, that time for a movie shooting, you can also tell you about your initial relationship with the city.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Hello everyone, good morning. In fact, Chairman Jia said that I have various identities, but in fact, I have not done very well. The Pingyao International Film Festival was my first time, and then this is the fourth time, and last year it was because I wanted to shoot a scene, so I didn't come. When I was filming "The Great Eunuch Li Lianying", because there was a Cixi, that is, the Eight-Nation Alliance army entered Beijing, Cixi fled west to Xi'an on the way to Pingyao, so I came to see the scene, but did not shoot. Just now, Jia Dao also talked about it, at that time, Pingyao was full of low houses, all of which were old residences. Then what I felt most deeply was that there was a small hotel every few steps, and it was written that the Guangxu Emperor had lived there, and when I saw how the emperor lived there, he lived in so many places, it was very strange, there was no place where Cixi lived, maybe it was easier to verify, I did not dare to write. After coming to Pingyao this year, I feel completely different, it is already a new look, and I think when I enter here, the diesel engine factory, I feel particularly interesting, a little like the earliest Beijing 798, which is a kind of era, especially vitality of the kind of young people, see a kind of desire to create, eager for a new kind of spirit of a pursuit of a place. It's really gratifying, because I myself have always felt that there is a year and a half of seventy years old, in fact, it has been farther and farther away from the movie, I think this small town is really good, I also hope that you can stick to it, there is a chance that I will come here every year, very good.
Jia Zhangke: We also look forward to the strong director can come to Pingyao every year, just now the strong director said that he is almost seventy years old, but for us is still a strong boy, we put this topic back to the early years, because everyone knows that the strong director was born in a film family, grew up in The North Film, such an environment, especially the childhood such a set in the growth, living environment, what kind of impact on your later creation, what kind of situations at that time, let you have the initial interest in the film, Is it just because your family is in the job?
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Actually, our family especially did not want me to make movies, I remember when I was a child, I reported a lot of volunteers, the People's Liberation Army, then engineers, and then scientists, but I didn't think about being a filmmaker, maybe they know more about the difficulty of film creation and the ideological relationship, so I never said you should do movies. And my mom used to tell me that your nose is a bit slumped and you can't be an actor. So I didn't have this hobby since I was a child, which may be a bit of a fate with me and Shanxi, I was in the army to go back to work as a camera assistant, and then I lived in Dazhai, Shanxi, at that time everyone was willing to come to Dazhai, because there was an Alai camera, film can be used casually, but you have to get up at about five o'clock every morning, and you can go back at ten o'clock, because everyone is in the field, eating, studying, working, all in the field, going back is sleeping. But after being there for about a few months, I really felt that it was quite boring, and then I felt that I couldn't say it, because I was young, I felt that the place was quite lonely. Later, Shanxi TV station had a lighting master who returned from the North Film Studio, he was also living in Dazhai, it was in the provincial TV station, he told me, he said Beijing Film Academy enrollment, you should go to learn photography, I really wanted to learn photography before coming back. But the photography department could not recruit our age, at that time I was 25 years old, so I could only take the directing department, so I mistakenly studied film directing.
Jia Zhangke: Dazhai is not far from Pingyao, very close to the place, I am curious at that time, as an agricultural film studio, you mainly shoot some science and education, or news.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: There are two kinds, science and education films and news films, news films are actually not much, science and education films are filmed a lot, and what I am most impressed by is that when Chairman Mao died, there was a science and education film made in Hubei at that time, which is equivalent to actually almost after I finished shooting this film, I arrived in Dazhai, and then I was admitted to the film academy. So at that time, the agricultural film factory was actually a ministry of agriculture, the treatment was very good, the equipment, the conditions, and many agricultural college students did screenwriting, I learned a lot there.
Jia Zhangke: In 1978, the strong director was admitted to the directing department of the Beijing Film Academy, and everyone knows that the 78th level is an epoch-making generation of Chinese cinema and a precedent for the fifth generation of Aesthetics in China. I see your memories of the university era, and there are many stories, because there are so many excellent directors, photographers, sound recordists, producers, but in many materials, I see that you said that there were some movies in the student era that had a very great impact on you, because at that time, shortly after the end of the Cultural Revolution, the door of the country was just opened, and I knew that there was a film that was mentioned by a Japanese director, including "The River of Mud", and in addition to "River of Mud", At that time, apart from such a training in the academy, what aspects of the whole social atmosphere had a great impetus and influence on your active thinking and creation?
Tian Zhuangzhuang: When I went to film school, I thought the happiest thing was to watch movies, because it seems that we have watched hundreds of movies in school, because I watch two movies every week, one is in school, and the other is in the city, because the school is very far away, which is now Wenzhou Water City. Then at that time, sometimes there were very few tickets to go into the city to watch movies, and they all asked the students of the art department to draw fake tickets, and basically when a movie went in, all the places were full of people, all undergraduates. I think probably the deepest feeling I had in film school was that I was most free to talk about movies and discuss creation the most freely, because at that time, the 78th grade was really a particularly good time, teachers and students, like students, watched movies together, discussed together, and teachers and students taught each other. Japan and China at that time seemed to have a lot of contacts in the film, including market movies everyone may watch "The Hunt" and many others, you said that the "River of Mud" is a we see is Oguri Yasuhei, in fact, it is his third or fourth part, a black and white film, is written in a boat a prostitute and child relationship, Japan is the use of "Muddy River", I think "Turbid" is more imaginative and literary than "Mud".
River of Mud (1981)
I especially liked this movie, and then it was a very fortuitous opportunity to meet Kang Ping, I went to prepare for the filming of "Wu Qingyuan", and then I chatted with a reporter, which was particularly stupid, and asked the reporter, I said that there is a director named Kang Ping who is still alive? Since there had been no news of him, I thought he was gone, and he said he was drinking at a nearby bar. I said I specifically wanted to invite him over for a drink, and he said I called and asked him, and he said he was a very difficult person to reach, and then he said there was a guy who wanted to invite you to drink, and he said I came over, and then he came over for a drink, and then we became good friends.
Because he made a particularly important influence on me, I asked him once when we were chatting, and I said you made five movies in total, and you made five movies at that time, and I said what do you live with (to support yourself). He said that I usually teach the children to watch movies in elementary school, and I have a movie class, and he said that I have been teaching these children to watch movies. At that time, I was very shocked, at that time I just arrived at the film school, that is, at that time, I did not regard teaching as a particularly important career, I just felt that the film was getting more and more difficult to make, and then the teaching of the film school gave me a feeling, the student cavity was too heavy, as if it was particularly far away from life, so I especially wanted to go back, can I make things in society and teaching can have a bridge, can there be a kind of dredging. And then these words were one of the earliest seeds of what I really like to teach now, and I felt that such an accomplished director, who got a lot of awards for each of his films, and then he taught the kids in a county, and taught the elementary school students to watch movies.
In fact, I have been advocating teaching primary and secondary school students to learn movies, that is, I think it is at least a aesthetic education. So I think that when we were studying, in fact, if I didn't see "River of Mud", I wouldn't want to know Kang Ping, then knowing Kang Ping did give me a lot of inspiration and help, which is very interesting, and it seems that the interaction between film directors is careless and left in the heart.
Jia Zhangke: That's when I first saw films like "River of Mud", that is, he will definitely bring you to the era when you studied movies, your own imagination of your own films in the future, when you were in school, what kind of imagination you had in your own creation or some focus.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: I can't, I wasn't a good student in school at that time, and my performance score was particularly low. I once messed up with my teacher, and when I was in acting class I said why can't we be outdoors. He said why go outdoors, I said that the movie is not always filmed in the house, nor on the stage, I said that everyone should have the kind of relationship with the environment, and then he took a group of classmates outside to shoot a clip, which is a clip of Liu Xiaoqing's performance later, maybe it is also an attempt, but also an attempt at the movie.
I'm probably a pretty rebellious person who doesn't particularly follow the rules. So this period of study in film school was the most free time for me, and I was under the impression that we watched movies, and the Ministry of Culture printed a kind of book that was a gray book, "Snowy Winter", "What Do You Really Want", and so on, and so on. These books also include Yukio's works, but they can only be obtained in the reference room of the film studio, and then I sneaked to the information room at that time, because he had a good relationship with our family, and every Saturday he went back to carry a lot of books to the school, and we guys would read them, and they would go back and read them, and they would discuss them later. It seems that there has been no such life for a long time, everyone is fighting alone, they are discussing things with their own small circles, and indeed sometimes they will restrain their eyes. I still miss that life when you ask.
Jia Zhangke: Just now, the strong director said that he wanted to put the acting class outdoors, on the street, and then his initial creation not only ran outside, but also ran to the ethnic minorities, which are his two films, "The Hunting Ground Zaza" and "Horse Thieves", which are set in the story of Tibetans and Mongolians. So at that time, for a film education living in Beijing, his home was also in Beijing, how did you discover such a story, how to enter the creation of these two themes.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Actually, I am a person who is particularly willing to do things, I think there are all kinds of movies, I prefer that kind of story that is slightly less strong, emotions and emotions that kind of things may be quite attractive to me. I'm obsessed with these things. Then for the subject matter, I will also think of something more virtual, such as some free things, bound things, in fact, "The Hunting Ground Zaza" is related to this, and then write about life and death, people and gods, "Horse Thief" may be like this.
I don't want to talk specifically about the philosophical level, but I just want to express my own feelings about this kind of thing through a state. In fact, you may feel that farther away from the city may find more easily found visual expressions of things and things that are not so much ideologically managed, it will be better, so it has been turning on the side, and later because after filming "Horse Thieves", the review and review is too hard, I think forget it, and come back to do what a normal director should do, tell a story, shoot something, and then make "Rock Youth". In short, it is anyway confused and has come over the movie has also been left, all there. It's complicated.
Jia Zhangke: I especially want to take "The Hunting Ground Zasa" and "Horse Thief" as two cases, and you can tell us specifically about how "Hunting Ground Zaza" discovered this story, how to prepare, to how you determine the director's work, tell us about it, or "Horse Thief", tell us about your creative situation at that time.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: First of all, "Horse Thief", I think the two films are actually completely different. "The Hunting Ground Zasa" is a particularly documentary, like a documentary, and "Horse Thieves" is a slightly abstract thing. That's what I specifically wanted to do, and when I made The Hunting Ground, you must have seen an Italian movie called Clogs Tree, which was shot almost simultaneously, in sync with time. But that pair of shoes touched me so much that I don't know if you remember, his father came back from cutting down a tree overnight, and then made a pair of slippers for the child, and then was found by the local landlord and expelled their family, and a carriage at night at dusk or early in the morning I don't remember, there was a lamp on the car, and it left the tribe with a family in the distance, which particularly shocked me.
The Clogs Tree (1978)
I thought that kind of real power was quite remarkable, and then I met the author of "The Hunting Ground Zasa", the two of us chatted at the North Film Studio, he wrote "My Gray Ranch", and he also wrote this, just like writing a documentary, it was very fun, and the two of us discussed how to shoot it together. Later, I saw some literature, including Genghis Khan's history of Mongolia, and so on, and later I felt particularly touched by the zaza thing, which is the meaning of the decree, that is, a kind of bondage and a kind of convention of everyone.
At that time I asked them, such as hunting, they hunted in a round hunt, to drive all the animals on horses to a depression, and then pregnant animals, small animals can not be hunted, must be released. If the two of us find this prey at the same time, then the two of us are half of one person, and then we have to give a part of the stuff to those who are not able to fight. This system is particularly interesting, especially natural harmony and human nature. Then when we were shooting, we only got up at four o'clock in the morning to shoot until seven o'clock, and at five o'clock in the afternoon, we went to the scene to shoot until seven o'clock in the evening, which is to shoot the best light of the grassland. Indeed, it was filmed that way.
Of course, this movie may actually be more of that kind of ethnic stuff or folklore stuff that may be a little obscure to read, and it will be a little bit difficult. You will feel that it doesn't matter, whatever it does, it's over. Of course, there will be a lot of trouble when reviewing, and now you see that we can make a movie in dialect, at that time, it can't, it must be Mandarin. I thought I couldn't stand it when I wanted a Mongolian speaker to speak Mandarin, it was too awkward. Of course, you see that there is no problem now, you see Mulan is also shot in English, at that time it will be quite competitive. After shooting this, I felt that I suddenly liked the magic realism work, and I read it every day, and then I felt that this movie could also be made a little more surreal, or it could be made more interesting. Then I met Zhang Rui, the author of "Horse Thief", and we worked on this work together, which had a lot of ups and downs. But when I was shooting, I already thought about it very clearly, because before shooting these two scenes, I would tell the leaders of the factory that I needed a camera, and I needed to go down and live for a month, and then I would take the photography to the grassland and go to the Tibetan areas. In fact, at that time, the creation was really quite free and comfortable, and the leader said you go. He took Zhao Fei and Hou Yong to the grassland for more than a month, on the Yushu side. Let's make a "Horse Thief".
I just want to shoot a particularly realistic thing, to be able to shoot the taste, to be able to shoot the feeling of the courtyard, I think making a movie for me is the film language you want to express, the film method, and then you have to challenge yourself, I hope that each of my films is different, has its own special texture, special temperament in it. Old Jia, you are a professional director, I am an amateur director, and I have to live by salary. Let's say that I may not be particularly concerned about the final result of these things, so I dare not make a movie now, because now the movie is too expensive, if you want to make a movie that you especially want to make, in fact, you still have to take care of the audience and the market, you will feel a little hesitant, and you will be a little overwhelmed.
Jia Zhangke: Just now we talked about two films, "The Hunting Ground Zasa" and "Horse Thieves", and with this we can also see your later works, including "The Wolf Plague" and "The Ancient Tea Horse Road", which are also going to a relatively primitive and exotic place to find the glory of humanity. That "Wolf Plague" we know prepared for many years, how did I get in touch with this novel at that time, how did I insist on it for so many years, and finally completed this work, because the movie is like this, you may give up after many years of preparation, it may not be filmed, but "Wolf Plague" I remember I first heard that you want to shoot it, and there was a long time in between, where did your belief in this movie come from?
Tian Zhuangzhuang: This has been ten years, "Wolf Plague" is actually xiaoxian director's "City of Sorrows" sold very well, he came to Beijing to meet us together, the original acquaintance is not so familiar, after this time the two people are particularly close. When he left, he told me, he said I bought a novel, it turned out that I wanted to shoot, I think it is quite suitable for you to shoot, called "Wolf Plague", do you want to see it. At that time, there was almost no Japanese literature in China, and then he sent me two translated versions and a thousand dollars, and at that time a thousand dollars was also quite a lot, more than ten thousand yuan, at that time one to thirteen, and then he said, this is for you to develop the script.
Then put this money anyway, first find a friend, take out half of it and give it to him, just say you help me change a draft. After half a year, I brought it to me, I didn't look very good, and I gave it to another person and said you can help me change a draft, probably three years. They say what you want to make. Do you want to shoot wolves? Do you want to have wolves? I said that "Wolf Plague" must always have wolves, not wolves. In fact, I myself am reading a lot of authors' works, "Wolf Plague" is indeed very difficult to shoot, because the author of this thing is written after the defeat of the war, he is more of a reflection and thinking of the Japanese nation itself. We're going to shoot, and if I shoot it I'll feel like I might see more of a fatalistic, human, and emotional thing in it. Maybe it's not a particularly strange thing for you to see the novel man turn into a wolf now, at that time no one may think that people can become wolves, but I think that a person can become a wolf for love is actually a very remarkable thing, and it should be a legend in the Western Regions at that time, and it is also an imagination of the author, I think it is quite romantic.
Wolf Plague (2009)
Probably a lot of people think that it was a suspense movie, but it wasn't actually a suspense movie, and I think there were some problems with the publicity at that time. In fact, it talks about two fates, one is to teach killing, he teaches people to kill, and the other is because he encounters love, but the result of this love is not a conventional result. It is not a sweet life together to produce offspring, but to become another species, whether you want to choose or not. It's possible that you can't choose, and you're bound to be like this. So after filming "Wolf Plague" at that time, I think it was a very important thing for me.
Once I was chatting with Old Ginger, I said I wanted to make a movie, he said you just shoot "Wolf Plague", it's been so many years, why not shoot it. I said it's very difficult, he said you have to shoot if it's difficult, you just shoot it, and that's how you made "Wolf Plague". In fact, there may not be many people who watch "Wolf Plague", and then there are not many people who really understand it, that's it.
Jia Zhangke: When it comes to the works of the strong director, it is difficult to avoid a film, that is, his masterpiece "Blue Kite", and the story behind "Blue Kite" is also known to many people. "Blue Kite" should have been cut off for many years after the same shooting, and then "Blue Kite" was filmed after "Spring in a Small Town".
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Yes, "Spring in a Small Town" made ten years later.
Jia Zhangke: I want the director to talk about the story of "Blue Kite" and why a "Spring in a Small Town" was used to break the silence of ten years.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Let me say, you think it is so. In fact, "Blue Kite" has a little background, and this background will not be discussed here. But in short, it was talked about, because I first wrote a script with Mo Yan and Liu Zheng at that time, called "Da Shui", about the Yellow River. I thought this river was particularly interesting, this river is what we have defined as the mother river, the cradle of culture for many years. However, the annual harm of the Yellow River is indeed particularly terrible, especially in the Yellow Plague Area, so I want to write such a particularly contradictory thing.
I talked to Mo Yan and still (sound), after writing I was not particularly satisfied, I felt that it was not so far to shoot, at this time Mo Yan sent out this script, after sending it out, there were friends who came to me and wanted to shoot. I said the thing wasn't very mature yet, and I said I wanted to make a story about the blue kite. He said that's okay, you write it, and then I wrote this script.
After writing it, the whole process is particularly complicated and particularly complicated. I think "Blue Kite" is the theme of seventeen years, seventeen years is exactly the process of my growth, because the protagonist is one year younger than me, I am probably in a courtyard, may be different from this kind of courtyard in Shanxi, may be different from the cave kilns in Shaanxi, is different from the courtyards in various parts of the country, is a yard where I grew up, I can smell the smoke smell of burning coal in the winter in that courtyard, I can know that there are clams in the corner of the wall in the summer, and then I play on the roof every day. It is that there will be a special deep affection for that yard. Then something happened to the family, the family disappeared for what, and you feel it in the darkness. You never asked your family, you never asked your parents, and then your parents were very transparent about everything, and suddenly you found that they started talking behind your back and locked the door, and then suddenly felt that the world was a little bit scary to you. So I think that history is quite interesting, I don't understand politics, I don't know what politics will look like in the future. I only know how a child grows up, what kind of influence he will be, what he will be like in a family, and how people will feel.
For example, how he thinks about soldiers, how he thinks of teachers, how he thinks of his classmates, how he thinks of ordinary people, how he thinks of people with power, he will have a very subtle mentality, very ordinary. And then in this process of growth you will grow up slowly, and then you will have right and wrong, you will have choices, you will have attitudes. I think that in fact, the movie is not so complicated, not so profound, but what you feel is what is, probably what happens around me. Of course, that history is quite far away. I felt like I did have an idea at the time, that I had to write down this story and this courtyard, this history, that is, whatever happened to me, I had to write it down. That's it.
Jia Zhangke: After "Blue Kite", I should be able to meet Director Tian personally at that time, why? Because I started studying at the Beijing Film Academy at that time, there was a yellow pavilion coffee next to it, the director sometimes went there in the afternoon to play chess, this chess is ten years, ten years later he remade Fei Mu's "Spring in a Small Town", I did not expect that a few years later he made a chess movie "Wu Qingyuan", we still want to return to this "Spring of a Small Town", that is, what a decision and opportunity at that time, let you use "Spring of a Small Town" to return to the film world after ten years.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: At that time, after filming "Blue Kite", I didn't want to make a movie, I felt as if I was a little out of place with the big movie world, so I helped to make things, and then I played chess with Zou Jing every day, zou Jingzhi was introduced to me by Tang Danian at that time, saying that there was a person who was very good at writing things, he liked to write movies, do you want to talk to him, after we finished talking, we talked very happily, and then became good friends.
We are both very smelly stinky chess baskets, playing chess together every day, until the blushing neck is thick. You said that the yellow pavilion was opened by Jian Ning, Jian Ning is a poet, Zou Jingzhi is also a poet, there is a weekly poetry meeting there, Nishikawa they go there to recite poems or something, a very interesting place. At that time, when it first germinated, when I was playing chess with Jingzhi and the two people, I saw a book called "There is a Sky Outside the Sky", which was actually the yiwen huiyou that Teacher Wu retired from the chess world at the age of seventy. I'm a person who loves to be stupid, and I said is this person still alive? Zou Jingzhi said that he was still alive. I said let's talk to him, let's shoot him. Zou Jingzhi said yes, I found a Shaohong director.
At that time, director Shaohong asked me, are you really not filming? I said no. She said then you shoot me a TV series, she gave me a TV series script, I looked, there are more than forty names and surnames, I can't remember, too many people. Then I gave it to her, and I said I couldn't shoot it. She said so what can you shoot? I said I photographed Wu Qingyuan. She went to ask who Wu Qingyuan was, and then she thought it was okay, she said that's good, I will help you contact Wu Qingyuan, and then Wu Qingyuan's matter is really Shaohong director helped me contact. In this process, I went to Japan with Ah Cheng, met Teacher Wu, got the authorization of the script, and then took back all the texts about Wu Qingyuan in Japan, about a million words, Acheng said that he was going to translate into a Chinese compile a chronology and then write Wu Qingyuan, I asked about the translation, it will take about a year to a year and a half. This is exactly the year 1999 and 2000, the millennium.
Then in 2000, when I said that the new era should start from 0, I thought it was strange, this one thing after two years, and then every day there was a report, and it was about to be 2000. At that time, I was really idle and had nothing to do, so I had a whim, so I found all the old Chinese thirty-year-old Ones, Fei Mu, Sun Yu and their films, and watched them when there was nothing to do. When I saw "Spring in a Small Town" for the third time, I was so sad that day, why? Later, when I combed through this matter myself, I thought it might actually be the influence of the millennium on me. That is to say, just such a thing, all the people in the world have paid attention to two years, in fact, I have always felt that everyone wants to use one thing to have a relationship with each other, to have a know between each other, to have a communication between each other, that is, the more modern and developed between people, that is, the sense of alienation is getting heavier and stronger. So I think it may be the reason, I finished watching something like "Spring in a Small Town", which is like a kind of thing that ends with affection, the emotion between the two men suddenly feels that it may really move me, I went to find Acheng, at that time I lived very close to Acheng, I said to discuss a matter with you, "Spring in a Small Town" has been thirty years, can you remake. He said, OK.
I said, "Do you want to see this?" He said I told you, and Ah Cheng also said it to you. You say. I said the first is that the voiceover of "Spring in a Small Town" is fantastic, we can't write it, I said can we not do it, I said everything else depends on you. He said yes, you give it to me. It was the Spring Festival, he returned to the United States, when he was still in the United States, and when he came back, he handed me a small U disk, saying that I wrote it for you, you see. I thought it was really well written when I saw it, and then I showed it to Shaohong. Shaohong also finished reading it and said do you want to shoot this? I said I want to shoot, he said why don't you shoot Wu Qingyuan first, don't you have a plan? I said the movie was so good, I really wanted to paint the red mold again, I haven't made a movie in ten years. Then I said it was important to me to make a movie quietly once, and I might be able to come back and make a movie again. Then in this way, Shaohong and Zhiqiang made money for "Spring in a Small Town", which is such a situation.
Spring in a Small Town (2002)
Jia Zhangke: After the completion of "Spring in a Small Town", it was "Tea Horse Ancient Road", and then "Wu Qingyuan", right?
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Yes, because I was like this at that time, when director Fei Mu made "Spring in a Small Town", because I had to raise another film, there was a surplus of time, I wanted to shoot "Spring in a Small Town" before I made "Wu Qingyuan", after the script was not finished, when I went to talk about Teacher Wu's copyright, I had already run for about six years on the Tea Horse Ancient Road in Yunnan, and then I also made a small documentary and gave ASK.
ASK had a column at that time, that is, every year to ask a foreign director to make a high-definition movie, feature films, documentaries are OK, but it must be a foreign director. Later, when they saw this, they told me, "You can shoot this, and I will shoot "Tea Horse Ancient Road". I said yes and verbally agreed. But a delay dragged on people for three years, to 2003 to the time of SARS, when SARS has not yet begun, the Japanese side will call, just say whether you shoot or not, this item has been established for three years, if you want to not shoot I will cancel this project, said because it has changed two generations of leadership. Later, I said shoot it, and just like that, I added a little bit, and then finished filming "Dram", and then filmed "Wu Qingyuan".
Jia Zhangke: In fact, this "Dram" is the whole documentary, which is in line with your previous "The Hunting Ground Zaza". At that time, how you captured the method, there was a good plan, to do a very detailed documentary shooting plan for production, or to capture and collide first.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: You know that I have no plan, how to shoot "Drumm"? "Blue Kite" will not be filmed after that. At that time, my son was probably in his teens, he especially liked bugs, and then I said that I would take you to all parts of the country to catch bugs, and later said that Yunnan has many bugs, so I will go to Yunnan. Later, when I arrived in Yunnan, I had a sudden thought, saying that I could not go to the university to see what the university was doing now. Then there happened to be a good friend there, I contacted a teacher at Yunda University, after going to his house, his family is two generations of Naxi ethnicity, a professor, a lecturer, Xiao Mu (yin) is very young, old Mu (yin) words I can't understand, Yunnan dialect. Xiao Mu can speak Mandarin, just tell me about Yunnan, when he left, he stuffed me with a book, he and five teachers wrote, called "Dianchuan Tibetan Triangle Exploration", listening to this name is quite fashionable, finished to take it back, also thin, just so thick a book.
I didn't take it seriously and threw it under the bed. I don't know if you have that phenomenon, I almost every month to a half month there is a regular insomnia, is how this night can not sleep, there is nothing to do, that day insomnia, just say look for a book to read, just go under the bed to touch the book out, feel out a look at the book did not close, until the next day at ten o'clock in the morning to read, is to write six teachers to investigate the development of language, that is, from the nasal language development to Yunnan, from the west has continued. But in the process of their inspection, they found that there are many horse gang transportation in Yunnan, just like our current Internet, that is, goods, news, everything, and then daily life of oil, salt, sauce, vinegar, etc., and salt. They find this road particularly interesting, the intersection of this road has caused a kind of fusion of all ethnic groups, and there are Tibetan horse gangs, Lisu horse gangs and so on, everything, Hui horse gangs, each horse gang has its own living customs and life characteristics.
When the six men were about to return, they had been out for more than three months, and the beard had grown, and finally when the six children reached the last stop to catch the mudslide, they ghostly found a particularly huge stone to stay under. The six brothers said, let's write a will, maybe tomorrow morning we will be gone, put in a wine bottle, in case this thing is still there, so that the six of us have done such a thing. One of them cried, saying I hadn't been in love yet, saying I couldn't die. The children were talking together, especially not taking life seriously, and in a moment they all slept inside. Then I woke up in the morning, and the book was written as a ray of sunshine, and I couldn't stand looking at it. After that, I bought a plane ticket and went to them, and I said well, I'm okay now, I'm studying movies, you write books, I pass on your things into images. So I ran in Yunnan, running for about two to three months a year, running three or four thousand kilometers, and I ran for five years to do this small documentary in the early stage of "Drum", which is a bit like an introduction. And then this film was done like this. Many of the people in the interview later were people I had met with them many times before and talked to them many times, and some of them were very familiar. Another is that we also chose the road from Yunnan to Tibet, which is actually only 110 kilometers in a straight line on the map, but he is walking on the mountain. That's how it was filmed.
Dram (2004)
Jia Zhangke: Let's talk about the latest film, "Birdsong", which is being produced, which is adapted from Ah Cheng's novel "Tree King", how do you come back to this novel, what is the current production situation.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Because I am very familiar with Ah Cheng, I especially admire him, and I think he is really a very great scholar. Everyone knows that he has three kings, and those two kings have been filmed. "Tree King" is a little more peculiar, I talked to Acheng about ten years ago, I said I want to make cartoons, I also lost a cartoon, I said can not make cartoons. He said then you take it and shoot it, and that's how there was such a thing. I really read "The Tree King" a few times and then I talked to someone, and I said how to do this, how about these tree kings, how about these young people. But I suddenly felt that this cartoon was not too addictive, and to say this, when the real people are together, the tree king is powerful enough, and then I want to wait until one day when there are special effects to do this thing. It was a seed very early, probably a dozen years ago.
Later, I never thought about filming again, I didn't want to shoot a scene since I finished filming "Wolf Plague", and when I was helping people to be a producer by chance, a friend said, don't you want to make a scene yourself? I said I really didn't want to make a scene anymore. He said you shoot one, I'll help you show this. I said I couldn't remember what to shoot for a moment and a half. He said you think about it. Later, I said that there was one thing that could be made, but it was difficult to shoot, that is, "Tree King", I didn't know how to make it, maybe it could be made into a movie, just shoot it. Then it stopped at the beginning of January this year, I don't know, anyway, the film was cut, I don't know what the future will look like, but it really wants to make this "Tree King" very laborious. You see, I'm a person who specializes in shooting that I don't know why, maybe my brain is not very good.
For example, you said Wu Qingyuan, Go and faith, no one can do anything, no one can understand professional Go, and you can't see faith, I think this thing seems to be very interesting to make into a movie. So a lot of things are like this, that is, the axis is in one place, this "Tree King" is also the axis on this matter, is to think that I imagined that thing in my head is quite impressive to me, because it is very similar to when I inserted the team, because I inserted the team in the northeast, this is written in Yunnan. Much like the kind of heaven and earth that you could feel at that time, the local stranger you didn't know, and all the things in that land, you were strangers. It's a feeling that you slowly come into contact with them, you slowly create harmony with them, you have conflict, and finally you actually produce yourself. I think it's particularly interesting.
Jia Zhangke: Well, let's look forward to the latest work of the strong director", "Birdsong", and hope to see this film as soon as possible. Everyone knows that in recent years, directors have often appeared in the works of other directors. But like myself, the first time I saw a strong director perform was in the "Grown Up" directed by Lu Xuechang, he played the train driver, and that was also the first batch of films produced by the director, at that time there was Wang Xiaoshuai's "Flat Shoulder Girl", Lu was called "How Steel is Made", and later changed to "Grow Up", and then included zhu Wen's "South of the Clouds" and so on, many young directors' works were completed through the help of directors. The following topic I want to turn to as a strong director as a producer, that is, at the beginning, like The Little Shuai and the Senior, were also in their infancy, how did you work together at that time, how did you help them to complete their earliest works.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Actually, you may know that the first play I made was called "Our Corner", when the Hong Kong film critic Shu Qi, and there was a scholar in Australia named Bai Jianming, and Marco Muller's former wife Du Amei, they held a film festival, all of which were "Goddess", "Spring in a Small Town", "My Life", and "Cross Street", which caused a particularly big sensation in Europe. In fact, that time was the world's first attention to Chinese films, there was no fifth generation at that time, that time should be when I was a sophomore, and then just in my sophomore year I made "Our Corner", Shu Qi did not know who to hear from, came to Beijing, at that time Shu Qi was a famous Film Critic in Hong Kong, and then he said that he must watch this movie, after watching it he wanted to meet me, we both became particularly good friends from there, he kept sending me movies, and kept writing me some movie introductions.
I remember the first time the two of us talked, I said that watching my movie now actually has a lot of problems, and he said that a good movie problem is not the main one, or that the part you have the most power is good. This sentence has a great impact on me, and I have thought about it before, in fact, there are two types of movies, one is made by young people, it may be very rough, a lot of burrs, there may be a lot of imperfections. But his momentum, his kind of vigor, his kind of creativity is particularly rare, especially personality, including your previous "Xiao Wu", that is, you will appreciate what I said, and there is also that we are all mature, we are very old and spicy when we make movies, that is the work, that young is called the study, I prefer the feeling that the study gives me, that is, he has a feeling that you no longer have, but you have to like it, and you feel that you have the kind of acquaintance, that closeness, So Shu Qi's influence on me is quite big.
After I finished filming "Blue Kite" for a very leisurely period of time, Shu Qi wrote me a letter, he said I recommend you a student of yours, named Wang Xiaoshuai, he shot a "Winter and Spring Days", very good. He said can you not have a chance to help him. At this time, I asked him to see his film, and I also felt that the filming was very good, and Xiaodong and his wife played it very well. Then I said yes, and then I brought him in, and I brought Lou Ye here, and they wrote the script together, but it still didn't work out, and it never worked out. In the end, the sixth generation is really not my credit, it should be Han Sanping's credit.
Winter and Spring (1993)
After Han Sanping went to the North Film Factory as the director of the factory, I left the North Film Factory after filming "Blue Kite", he got me back, and he said that someone in the factory told me that you can help me. I said I don't want to make movies anymore, what can I do you? He said what do you want to do? At that time, I felt that I owed them a favor, and I said that I wanted to do a film directed by young people. He said what do you care about them? At that time, there were indicators, I said you see, now doing beijing film studio movies is so good, if you do a few more young directors, I think the reputation of The north film studio in the film industry will be particularly good, I said I am willing to do this for you. He said okay, no problem. We were in a shabu lamb restaurant on the central axis road, and we found these children in Beijing at the level of 85, and Sanping said, Zhuang Zhuang is in charge, and if any of you write something to him, he will do it. At this time, I quickly got the first film script of the senior, "Killing Silkworm Clothes", I don't know if you have heard of it, if that is going to shoot maybe "Crazy Stone" is not so crazy, ten years earlier than that, it is completely a type of thing, it is a very famous thing written about Ma Wangdui, and it is also a particularly black humor.
But at that time I said that your script still needs to be adjusted a lot, you still have something, he said I really have a few things, I will get you another one tomorrow, and I will bring "How Steel is Made". I said what do you think of this, can you shoot it? He said he could shoot, and this is something I wanted to shoot for a long time. I said you just shoot it. That's it, and then Xiao Shuai's "Vietnamese Girl" also came, and was changed to "Flat Shoulder Girl" by the Film Bureau. The senior's "How Steel is Made" was changed to "Grown Up". It is these two plays, and then there is Zhang Ming's "Wushan Yunyu", anyway, I pushed a total of six movies that year, all of which are not bad, I think in the end I think that in the end, I think it is Han Sanping's director who was quite bold at the time, that is, he can come up with a factory label worth 300,000 yuan to shoot you a film that may sell less than 300,000 yuan. So it is true that the rise of the sixth generation is related to me, but in fact, I am just a person who has done some work, and it should be Han Sanping who can really make up my mind to push this batch of directors.
Grow Up (1997)
Jia Zhangke: We also want to thank Director Tian, although he is modest, saying that the rise of the sixth generation is mainly Sanping director, but I also have a story with a strong director, my second film "Platform", after the script was written, I was very eager to be able to shoot it, so I sent it to the North Film Studio, when the producer of this film was a strong director, and then unfortunately it was not completed in the North Film Studio. But in the end, this film was made, so when the film was completed, I solemnly wrote a thank you to the director zhuangzhuang at the end of the film, because although the film was not produced by the North Film Studio in the end, the zhuangzhuang director gave me continuous spiritual support in this process, so this support is unforgettable for our sixth generation of directors, and I thank the director.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Don't.
Jia Zhangke: From the generation of Xiao Shuai, such as Bai Xue's "Over Spring", the younger filmmakers you have been helping them as executive producers, have you felt their changes, that is, the younger generation and the younger generation and the younger Shuai generation.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: How to say it, it is like a little handsome, a senior, you, your generation I can now clearly feel that your aesthetics and the production of your films, the overall process is particularly clear. Now young directors I think sometimes make me a little hesitant, that is to say, it may be because the demand for the film market in recent years is too large, and then the attitude of the film market to the film itself has penetrated into the film, so many young directors will have some embarrassment, some hesitation. In fact, I think it's quite normal, I'm also doing some promotions for young directors now, and then my studio will receive some film scripts every week, but it feels like it's still a little bit off, but it's not that I can't do it.
In addition, I don't know if you also recognize it, just say that the threshold of the movie is indeed low now, I once watched Martin talk about Marvel, I was quite touched, that is, in fact, the movie may still have to have a more pure, more leading thing in the visual arts. Maybe I'm not all I've said, but I still think that the film may still be too sacred and important for you and me, or a creative form that we have been with all our lives, and may be a little demanding. But venture capital like you too, right? I've heard that there are more than sixty venture capitals across the country. I've always hoped, in fact, I really want to be able to have another theater line, that is, this theater line is relatively free, relatively academic, relatively niche, and then there may be such a thing in every provincial capital city or every city with a better economic development, similar to the auditorium of your small town spring, which is put on some things that are not entertainment movies all year round. Because I think in fact, we are like this in our lives, sometimes we want to eat a little good, we want to drink some wine, sometimes we want to drink a little water, sometimes we don't want to eat anything. In fact, the film should be the most abundant, can create the best environment for the film to come to our lives, now we go to the film life, that is, I always say that many people now do not know the movie, but know the movie theater. All my time in the future may be helping young directors to be producers, or to do planning, I think it doesn't matter what to do, this film can be made, can be completed, can be liked by many people, and even can go to the world, I think this is the best kind of communication in China's culture today, the state of today's people. I think so, I hope I can do it, I also hope that you can help me, I will also ask you for help.
Jia Zhangke: Well, dear audiences of the Pingyao International Film Festival, thank you for sharing this master class, we would like to give special thanks to director Tian Zhuangzhuang, who not only dedicated so many excellent works to us, but also supported the development of Chinese films behind the scenes, and presented so many wonderful performances for the screen, and is also a film educator, who has invested all his energy and efforts on the development of films. This evening's Pingyao International Film Festival is very, very fortunate to be able to award Director Tian Zhuangzhuang the choice of contribution to this year's East-West exchange, let us stand up and applaud Director Tian.
Tian Zhuangzhuang: Thank you to all your friends, thank you to the Pingyao Film Festival, thank you Chairman Jia.