"Shadow Music" ID: SoundtrackM
Join us in focusing on film music for a hundred years
Interview / Célès Chen
As a Polish composer, Jan A. P. Kaczmarek (hereinafter referred to as J.A.P.K.) is adept at using a clean, feminine, delicate musical language to explain the theme of "love". Whether it is Verlaine's first encounter with Rimbaud in Total Eclipse (1995), the parting of the Jewish girl and the Germanic girl in Aimée & Jaguar (1999), or the interlacing of different life trajectories in The Visitor (2007), Kaczmarek can always cover each other with a picture-filled soundtrack and plot. Use iconic piano and strings to interpret those inexplicable emotions.
Much of what Eastern audiences know about Kaczmarek began with the soundtrack to Finding Neverland (2004) or Hachi: A Dog's Tale (2009). The former helped Kaczmarek win the 2005 Academy Award for Best Original Score, while the latter brought his music into the hearts of audiences around the world.
▲ Miramax Films from ©️ Miramax Films
Kaczmarek's scores are numerous, including many Hollywood commercials. But on the other hand, he never took the mainstream route, but adhered to the unique artistic style and Eastern European characteristics in the commercial environment. When it comes to the topic of "Polish identity," his tone is more excited than when he talks about his own work. "Identity is the most precious asset." He said, "Only by protecting your identity can you maintain the quality of your work." ”
Even his source of inspiration carries a hint of Eastern European mystery: "Music comes from mysterious corners of the universe, and my brain captures these signals, so I sort them out." ”
▲ Stills ©️ from "The Garden of Eden in The Fire" senator film
In fact, Kaczmarek's musical journey is as elusive as his style.
His college major was political science and law, but he went out of the house to study music composition.
He was fascinated by technology, but after studying electronic music, he fell back in love with classical music.
When his career was in full swing, he returned to Poland to start the Film Society, because he felt that this was what Eastern European artists needed.
He excelled at using the delicate musical language of the Polish style, but was equally comfortable with grand epic themes.
After experimenting with so many different films and different styles of music, he said: "I'm still hungry for knowledge. ”
Curious about the many twists in the composer's life and a perennial focus on Polish style, we conducted the following interview with Kaczmarek, who is a jury member of this year's Beijing National Film Festival:
Ying Lezhi: As a jury member of the Beijing International Film Festival, how do you feel about this trip to China?
J.A.P.K.: This is my first time in China. I was impressed by the vibrancy here. The North Film Festival is very well organized, and I have watched a lot of excellent movies with the people on the jury. It was a wonderful trip and I would like to come back.
Ying Lezhi: As a composer, what are your criteria for good films?
J.A.P.K.: For me, good movies should be inspiring, your heart racing, your thinking better. I actually feel lucky to be able to score those great movies.
Shadow Music: Speaking of oriental music and oriental culture, you have also written music for a work adapted from an oriental film, "The Story of Hachiko the Loyal Dog". How do you feel about Oriental culture and have you been exposed to Oriental music before?
J.A.P.K.: I love Oriental culture, and I admire China's thousand-year history. I've dabbled in oriental subjects twice in my soundtrack work, in addition to The Tale of Hachiko the Loyal Dog, and Leonie (2010). "The Story of Hachiko the Loyal Dog" is indeed very special, because the subject matter is universal, whether in Europe, the Americas, or in China or Japan, the global audience can understand the friendship between a dog and a person, which is also what we call "unconditional love". Maybe that's what makes it move people's hearts. It also makes my music enjoyed by a global audience, which makes me happy.
▲ "The Story of Hachiko the Loyal Dog" stills ©️ From Inferno Distribution
Ying Lezhi: "Oriental" is a very general concept, which can refer to Asia, can refer to the Middle East, and even refers to Eastern Europe. What do you think about this as a Western music creator from Eastern Europe?
J.A.P.K.: Eastern Europe has its own identity, but it is also part of Western culture. We will be influenced by Asia, and we will be influenced by the entire Western world. It's an interesting combination.
Today we live in a global village, and in China I see people liking Chopin and classical music, and in Poland I see people interested in Chinese music. It's amazing because as a composer, in times like these you need to do cross-cultural creation, get inspired by one culture, and then express it in your own way.
During the North Film Festival, I was conducting in a film concert and was delighted to see that the orchestra here fully understands Western music. They played my work brilliantly and the audience loved it, which is why I want to come to China again.
Shadow Music: I listened to your debut album The Last Music, released in 1982, and your style was very different then than it is now. The introduction on the cover of this album is "New Music from Poland", why is it "New Music"? What new style did you want to try?
J.A.P.K.: I was very young, 24 or 25 years old, passionate. I originally got my name as "Orchestra for the Eighth Day." The "eighth day" is a day that does not exist, a day of fiction. At that time, I was bent on making some works that exceeded reality and expectations, although they were not very pioneering, but they were also quite pioneering. Very improvised, full of inner freedom. But by the time my second album was released, that style had changed.
▲ Flying Fish, his debut album "The Last Music" ©️ released in 1982
Yōshiro: Were these styles you experimented with in your early years and the ideas you wanted to convey at the time related to the political and cultural changes that Poland experienced in the 1970s and 1980s?
J.A.P.K.: Art is more or less reflective of reality, but music has its own language, which is very abstract and does not necessarily reflect reality directly. More often, I use my works to describe emotions, to describe those moments in my mind. I was not directly involved in those political or social events.
Shadow: So you moved to the United States and started your creative career in New York?
J.A.P.K.: Yes, I went to the United States in 1989 and hoped to learn some techniques and use computers to assist in creation. I was particularly fascinated by computers at the time and felt that computers were an important resource for creativity generation and should be regarded as a partner. At that time in Poland, this technology was not yet emerging, so I went to the United States and hoped to learn something in the field of electronic music. Unexpectedly, the result was the complete opposite. When I was exposed to enough technology, I began to lose interest in electronics and instead fell in love with classical music again.
So I started writing symphonies and orchestras for American theaters in New York. Although I still think of computers as an important tool, this medium does not affect my style. The music came from mysterious corners deep in the universe, and my brain captured these signals, so I sorted them out.
I was proud because no Polish composer had composed music for the top American theaters before. In fact, I find Polish theater a bit more "grand" than American theater. Polish theater tends to be larger, using a lot of music, big sets, big lights, moving stages, and a variety of visual effects, almost like movies. But American theater seems to be more based on dialogue, based on the actors themselves. At that time in the United States, there were very few performances of large-scale productions that we had in Poland at that time. For me, coming to the United States also tests whether my work works in another world.
▲ 2017年的Jan A. P. Kaczmarek ©️ Dawid Linkowski
Ying Lezhi: So what specifically makes you return to the classics?
J.A.P.K.: Probably from these real instruments, from the orchestral music, I discovered my soul, my heart, my emotions. For a while I was studying electrons, but only as an aid. I still add some electronic elements to the orchestral symphony. I love this combination and it makes me feel younger.
Shadow Music: As a polish composer in the United States for many years, how do you feel about your identity?
J.A.P.K.: I think identity is the most important thing in life. Without identity, it's hard to really respect yourself. When the artist is young, if he doesn't already have an identity, he can go and build one. But when you establish your identity, you have to protect it, because it is your most precious asset. You only know who you are, you understand your expertise, you have the opportunity to become a great artist, not waste time on irrelevant things.
At the same time, when you establish your identity, you will fight for the truth. When the director or producer raises objections, you can choose to accept it or resign. Compromise is always inevitable, but I believe there is a "compromise of wisdom." Life is a series of compromises. Your imagination can fly into outer space, but through compromise you will see the limitations of reality. The term "compromise of wisdom" fascinates me. Because in Poland, we have always been taught to "not compromise", and once you compromise you become a walking dead. But I believe that through a "compromise of wisdom," I will know how far my mind can go and where I should stop.
Ying Lezhi: Without any mentors, what was your biggest challenge after moving to the United States?
J.A.P.K.: When you first arrived in the U.S., the biggest challenge was always how to make money to survive (laughs). The second challenge is not to let the business culture there affect you badly. Because American film music is market-driven, unlike in Poland or China, there will be sponsorship from the state or public institutions. Sure, it's great to have tens of millions of viewers who know your work, but at the same time, the market may make those who are bent on making money reduce the quality of their creations. Sometimes not very good works can make money. So my challenge is to maintain my qualities as much as possible, to express myself, and to protect my identity in limited conditions. I wish I had done it.
▲ Polish composer Wojciech Kilar ©️ Stefan Maszewski
You and other Polish film composers like Zbigniew Preisner, Wojciech Kilar, Abel Korzeniowski are adept at using delicate musical languages, and you both prefer piano and strings. Is this a polish-exclusive trait?
J.A.P.K.: It was natural in Poland, perhaps partly under chopin's influence.
Poland, unlike those in Western Europe, had a strong royal family in history to establish some court orchestras, using instruments such as trumpets, trombones, and horns. In Poland, we don't have such a space, so we choose some instruments that can be played at home, such as piano and strings.
We also want to create large orchestral pieces, such as the brass instrument I used in the soundtrack of Quo Vadis (2001). The same was true in the later Canadian film The Battle of Passchendaele (2008). So in fact, we have tried various styles, but we may be better at using delicate, subtle musical language.
▲ Stills from "Where Are You Going" ©️ HBO
Film Phillips: A few years ago, you founded a film association in Poland, how did you come up with the idea of doing something like this, to unite Composers and Artists from Europe?
J.A.P.K.: I was also inspired by some of the societies (Sundance Institute). I thought that in Eastern Europe we needed such an association, so I went to organize it. Later, I started a film music festival and incorporated this association into it.
I encourage young people to communicate with imaginative and experienced mentors through this association. They can tell you something you haven't discovered yet and help you grow faster. When I was younger, I didn't have mentors, and I knew how hard it was to do everything on my own. I think the most important responsibility of mentors is to guide young people to discover their own identity and to protect it.
▲ Stills ©️ from The Battle of Paschheimer Damberger Film & Cattle Co.
Shadow Music: How did you come up with the idea of using a lot of different timbres and techniques to create an atmosphere when your new work, Paul, Apostle of Christ (2018), was released in March?
J.A.P.K.: The Apostle Paul is a very special film. First of all, the story takes place in ancient Roman times. You need to delve into so much history, but there's little constraint, because there's very little information to tell you what music was like at that time, so you need to use your imagination to explore. I use a lot of Middle Eastern instruments to get close to the real, but at the same time I also try to find unique tones for contemporary audiences to understand the emotions.
Shadow: Yes, I heard you used instruments like santur and qanun. I was wondering, if this kind of creation is too close to historical reality and too exotic, will it make the audience feel estranged? How should this authenticity be grasped so as not to "offend" the ears of contemporary audiences?
J.A.P.K.: That's a very important question. If you go too far, you'll alienate Western audiences. So you need to find those specific moments that both excite them for exotic sounds without creating a sense of estrangement. In The Apostle Paul, I use both Western and Eastern instruments. The core idea of the film is to use love to defuse violence. My music is also created to convey this idea.
▲ Stills ©️ from "Paul the Apostles" affirm Films
Film Music: When scoring epic movies, there are always problems such as how to get close to historical truth, is this difficult for you?
J.A.P.K. difficulties are always there. And I always want to create something different. It might have been a little easier for me though, because it wasn't the first time I'd scored a movie from this era. 2000's Where Are You Going is also about the story between the ancient Romans and the Christians. I spent a lot of time studying these Middle Eastern instruments at the time, so I've gained some experience, which is very helpful.
Shadow Music: You've scored several epic films, but they're not the same. The soundtrack of Where Are You Going seems to be a bit more "epic", with plenty of vocal music and strong drum beat rhythms reminiscent of war. But later in War and Peace, your soundtrack became more restrained, gentle, and even romantic. Why is there such a difference? Are you interested in trying something new?
J.A.P.K.: That's right. As you mentioned, we Polish composers seem to be obsessed with piano and strings, but I personally love "adventure". When I was offered an offer for a film soundtrack, my biggest motivation was whether it could bring me something new and take me into something I'd never been in before. This kind of adventure is important, and it makes my brain think better.
▲ Stills ©️ from War and Peace by Lux Vide
Films like Total Eclipse (1995) and The Visitor (2007) have a chamber music feel, sound clean, and have a "sense of intimacy." How did this style come about?
J.A.P.K.: I do have some works that are more intimate and personal. I prefer to compose music about love, and I am also good at it. I've scored a lot of love stories, but those are more complicated. I've been waiting for a more powerful love story, something like "using the power of love to help you with great difficulties."
I would also like to add that every composer wants to be recognized for being "open-minded and broad-minded". I make some music about love, but I'm just as willing to try various other genres. I'm still hungry for knowledge. Doing only one thing is dangerous, and it can dull you.
Shadow Music: In so many styles you have tried, I have also heard some elements of minimalism. Now that minimalism is very popular in the field of film music, how do you think about this? To what extent are you influenced by this style?
J.A.P.K.: I incorporate elements of minimalism into my style, so my minimalism is never strong. I'm always looking for melodies and using melodies to elicit emotions. In fact, Philip Glass is also changing, and now he is not a pure minimalist. When I listened to his soundtrack, The Hours (2002), I felt very similar to my style. Minimalism is indeed very influential now, but people still find their own unique expression in repetitive architectures.
▲ Stills ©️ from "Life Visitors" from Groundswell Productions
In your career, which film composer has impressed you?
J.A.P.K.: I'm a huge fan of Ennio Morricone, especially enjoying his score Of The Mission (1986). If I could only choose one, then my choice would be him. I also like John Williams now, although I haven't been influenced by him much before. In fact, I have a wide acceptance of music, from rock and jazz to Rap and hip hop, I will listen to all kinds of traditional and modern music. I also listen to Peking Opera. When I was in Beijing, I heard someone singing, and I found that Peking Opera was very different from Western music, very exotic. I'm wondering how can I use it? Maybe add some Peking Opera singing to Western music? How can you intelligently connect the two together? Maybe one day I'll think of it.
▲ Stills ©️ from "The Church" by Warner Bros.
Film Music: What are the film genres that you particularly want to try? Which ones don't want to try?
J.A.P.K.: I don't really want to make action movies, it's kind of simple. When you are scoring the music, you are very engaged and enjoyable, but when you go back and listen to it after you have finished the soundtrack, you feel that there is no connotation. Many of the movies I scored had action elements, but when I listened to it later, I felt... Didn't want to hear it a second time.
But adventure movies are different, like Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark. I'd love to try more adventure movies, even fairy tale themes, etc.
Ying Lezhi: Finally, thank you for taking the time to interview us, and I hope that you will have more excellent works in the future!
J.A.P.K.: Thank you, I'm honored.