"Mad Max: Fury Road" was a huge hit at this year's Oscars
In the lackluster 2015 cannes, the non-competition screening "Mad Max: Fury Road" was one of the few climaxes on the Côte d'Azur last year; a year later, Cannes invited the film's director, Georges Miller, to chair the jury of the world's top art film feast. This super super long interview will take you into the cinematic world of the king of genre films.
| Stephen Galloway (Editor, The Hollywood Reporter)
Translated | Maroon Snow (London)
Proofreading | Yuan (New York)
Stephen Galloway (SG): Glad you're wearing this Australian bomber jacket again, you wear it everywhere you go.
George Miller (GM): Strangely enough, I'm the kind of person who likes to flip over and over and put on a piece of clothing. Believe it or not, I wear this jacket every day to the set of Fury Road. (Laughs) One day, my family will say, "Please, Dad, please don't wear this again." "When the time comes, I'll find the next piece of clothing to wear."
SG: So I guess you still changed your underwear, right?
GM: Changed. [Laughs]
SG: Then I'm relieved... Back in 1945, the Second World War was coming to an end, and to some extent the 20th century was divided into two parts, and the whole world entered modern society. This year, you were born in Australia. Your parents were both Greek immigrants. You grew up in a small town called Chinchilla. Let's talk about your past, because you're one of the most modern directors I can imagine, but I don't know anything about your family history. Who are they and how did they go to Australia?
GM: Oh. My father's hometown is Kithira, in the middle of the Mediterranean, and he was nine or ten years old when he left home. This happened a lot in the first half of the 20th century. Then he said goodbye to his mother and came to Australia. Nine years old, this was the last time he saw my grandmother.
SG: Wow.
The director was on location on Max Madness: Fury Road
GM: Then he settled in Australia and worked. He went to school for a year. He was very obsessed with the matter of education, so I had three brothers, and we all became doctors and lawyers, of course. My father started making a living in Australia. He came to a place in central Australia that I didn't understand before why he liked it so much. A very isolated, dry, flat area with a terrible heat in the summer. It wasn't until we got back to the Greek islands, in the summer heat, that I suddenly realized: such a dry meadow, a strong light, the same cicadas, and so on. In this way, he found a way to replicate his childhood life. However, my mother immigrated while she was in her infancy. When the Greeks were driven out of their homeland by the Turks, she and her family first came to Asia Minor. We basically grew up in the remote suburbs of Australia, me, my twin brothers and my younger brothers who were born later. Our childhood was incredibly lucky because we spent all day playing. Movies can be seen on Saturdays, and there was no TV to watch back then. There is broadcasting. We rode horses in the bushes, playing all day, performing those bridge sections seen in Saturday movies.
SG: Growing up, did you feel like a Greek? Do you speak Greek?
GM: Every year, we go to Sydney, where my grandmother lives. We both learned a little bit of Greek, but, you know, I speak Greek to the level of a baby. I don't usually talk about it because there are not many other Greeks in the area where we live. I didn't feel like a real Greek, or inherited Greek culture, but I realized that my father had moved his life on the Greek islands to Australia so much that, especially every Sunday, we had a long table lunch for 25 people. All guests are from the countryside. The best thing is that the cultural atmosphere is intergenerational, with children on the table, old people, and so on. But they're all Australians. They are all rural people from Australia. It wasn't until later, when I returned to my father's hometown, that I realized that he had completely copied the life he had lived, or rather, the life he longed for. Another thing, I think, may have subtly affected me, is that greeks are addicted to storytelling.
SG: Did Greek mythology influence you tremendously?
GM: Yes. My work is basically in this field. My films are allegorical or mythological, consciously or unconsciously. Like many filmmakers, I am a great believer in Joseph Campbell, a well-known mythologist in the United States, whose other admirers include George Lucas, the director of Star Wars. He attracted me not only to the interpretation of the hero myth, but also to how he explained the meaning of storytelling, the role of the story, and the role of the myth. These make me feel like I'm born with it. I don't know if it's related to the fact that I'm a Greek.
SG: Do you have a favorite Greek mythology or character?
GM: "Odyssey". I've always, always loved, loved it. One thing I like about it is that there are gods here, there are demigods and half-men, fallen gods. Greece, Rome, and many other cultures had this pantheistic tendency. What really interests me is that many modern superhero stories are the latest interpretations of this mythological paradigm. It was really fun.
SG: You were going to direct some superhero movies like Man of Steel 2 and Justice League. Why didn't it end there?
GM: Mainly Justice League. That is, I thought about seven years ago. The script is very positive. The Warner guy said, "Come on, let's make a Justice League." "This project appealed to me very much. But at that time, the screenwriters' strike was just beginning. We had to go into casting with the Warner people right away. The whole casting process was very fast, the project advanced quickly, and it was almost possible to choose the start date and some basic legal procedures, and the department that tried it at that time belonged to a government that had just come to power, and they could not make such a big decision for a while. So the whole project failed, the whole movie was not made, just one step away. But in the end it didn't work out. This kind of thing happens in the industry, many projects are lined up to be filmed, and the stars seem to be on standby, but they are not.
George Miller was filmed on location in Mad Max: Fury Road
SG: What about Fury Road? Also in preparation for many years?
GM: "Fury Road" talked about it three times before it came to fruition.
SG: Which movie had the biggest impact on you as a child? You've seen those Saturday movies.
GM: Do you mean one or many?
SG: It doesn't hurt to say a few more if you want to.
GM: The saturday film experience was special, and I don't know if they still have this activity now. Do you know what a Saturday movie is? Saturday movies are generally played continuously, mostly hot series of movies, but also put on cartoons, a bit like a hodgepodge, composed of A-grade films and B-grade films. In general, if it's a Western, or a big production, there's an intermission, like Hateful Eight. You have to remember that the place where we watch the movie is a flat place with occasional sand and hot air, and you have to enter the dream of the movie in such an environment. It felt great, and the whole movie experience was unmatched. And I remember in Australia, we all ate candy while watching movies, and that sugar was called "Jiafa", which was a kind of candy with hard candy on the outside and chocolate on the inside. However, people would let them roll down the wooden floor of the movie theater, and we often played this game. [Laughs]
SG: What a waste of sugar! In England we are not willing to do it.
GM: At first someone accidentally spilled sugar on the ground, and then someone deliberately let the candy roll to the ground. Every weekend is a festival. Every kid will come. But I wasn't impressed by the movies, except for howard Hawks' The Thing. Some clever distributors put a box at the entrance of the theater, like the pirate treasure chest, painted black, written in white on it "Magic Star Under the Mortal", a bit of a dripping font, and then tied an iron chain on it. As soon as we kids got out of school, we raced to the door of the theater and stared at the box. Obviously it's an empty box, but that's what kind of "magic star" is inside? It seems simple now, but at the time we were really fascinated. Then the whole town was divided into two factions, one was the parents who felt "Okay, let's go see the 'Magic Star Under the Mortals'", and the other faction felt "No, no, we think 'Magic Stars Under the Mortals' are not suitable for children to watch." "My parents — we were both very young at the time, and they also felt we shouldn't go. My twin brother and I shouldn't have gone to see this film. But we sneaked into the cinema and hid behind the screen. We listened to "Magic Star Under the Heavens" the whole time. It's not in line with the rules, but it's the most exciting thing we can do as a child. When I saw the film later, it was far less interesting than it "sounded" back then.
SG: My mother used to be a teacher, and she occasionally had to teach at night school, and I waited for her at home while watching TV, and there was a program called "Film and Television Today." You've also worked as a choreographer at the BBC, and you should know about the show. Didn't you do that show for the BBC about Vietnam?
GM: Yes, we did.
SG: I can't stay up too late, but I watch the amazing shows written by Dennis Potter every day. I usually don't see the ending, because as soon as I hear my mother's car come back, I turn off the TV. So the ending is always a mystery. You've said that watching movies is more inspiring than religion. Are you religious? Do you still believe it now?
GM: What did you just say in the first part?
SG: Because I speak in a British accent, it's hard to understand, isn't it?
GM: Yes! (Laughs) My ears are used to an Australian accent.
SG: Did you know that the two of us could pretend to talk, and no one else would find out that we couldn't understand each other. You said that movies are more awe-inspiring than religious. I wonder if you are a catholic and if you are still.
GM: When I was a kid, I was because I was in my cultural environment. I started out at a Catholic school. And I was baptized in a Greek Orthodox church. I went to a Catholic school and then to a public, non-religious school. Later we went to churches in anGlican church. But over time, like many people, I found my way of dealing with the world. I have a strong sense of interconnectedness between things. But I did not convert to any official religion. But I do believe — and that's what Joseph Campbell said — when asked about the best definition of myth, he said: Myth is someone else's religion. To some extent, this makes sense, because there is always something that drives us as a human being as a whole to search for meaning in the universe. I mean, we can't get rid of this behavior. And we use stories and narratives to answer questions about the universe and life. Humans do this for all cultures, all times and all places. We do so spontaneously. I think that's what storytelling does, and some of these stories are so fascinating that they become myths or religions.
SG: Star Wars fascinated me, and I remember that at first people saw only "Star Wars", and now it has become a modern myth.
GM: Not only that, I've heard people get married as Jedi. (Laughs) They did! Briton.
SG: It can't be British, I assure you. [Laughs]
GM: That's the survey. When people asked to fill in religion, they wrote "Jedi Knights." A certain percentage of people do that.
SG: It's a kind of British humor. Like they say "Satanism," you know, they're not serious. I hope so.
GM: I know it's a joke to some extent, but people take it as legitimate. They take this seriously.
SG: Do you pray?
GM: I have a magical form of meditation, but not for a specific god, a bit like for the whole universe. Everything in the universe is related, and we are part of everything in the universe. I think one of the most important things is to be grateful for life, and any existence is an amazing thing. In fact, we have this fact, happy or not, is a force of nature.
SG: How disappointed are you when things don't go their way? I mean, especially in the film industry, you know, things often fall apart. I remember one time I interviewed Anthony Minghella, who spent two and a half years writing the script for The English Patient, and the money for Miramax and Fox was ready. While he was doing pre-production, one of them suddenly divested. Then the plan blew up and it was over. Then Saul Zaentz invested money, or Miramax added money, and anyway, you know, Minggra won the Oscar for Best Director and Best Picture. But the good vision was shattered — and it happened from time to time. How frustrated are you about this kind of thing?
GM: In the beginning, when you were going all out to prepare a movie, it was a bit of a back-and-forth, and failure can be a huge psychological trauma, because sometimes you have a strong urge to tell some kind of story. But over time, you get a little smarter, and you do several things at the same time. You know it's part of the process, it's part of the ecology. Some things went well and worked out. But not everything goes well. So after a while you learn to be smart. There are many other things in life that are worse than a project suspension. Like, if you're an athlete, you're training for a certain competition, like the Olympics or something. Suddenly, you can't go to the competition. You've got every fiber in your body ready. Therefore, I am lucky that I have other projects on hand that interest me without having to make a desperate bet. So there is always something else to replace the one that fails.
SG: Are there any films that you couldn't make, but you really wanted to make?
GM: I had a lot of films I wanted to make, but none of them I tried to shoot and didn't make, no.
SG: Who are the filmmakers who have had the biggest impact on you? Is it Kubrick? "Clockwork Orange" is a work that has a great influence on you.
GM: The impact is huge.
SG: When did you see this?
GM: I watched it as soon as it was released. It's an unforgettable work, and for me, I can memorize almost all the bridges and every shot of the film. Especially the first half, too vivid. That's the greatness of Stanley Kubrick. He's just capable of creating memorable images. They seem to be imprinted in the minds of the audience. His perspective is extremely unique. So whenever I watch a movie like Clockwork Orange, I feel like I don't need to watch it over and over again, because I'm familiar with every shot, every action, every soundtrack, I know it all. But when it comes to filmmakers who influenced me, silent films were my initiation when I first became interested in movies. I remember the first time I watched a Buster Keaton film, I thought, "Wow, this guy really understands the potential of classic montage." "He knows how to choreograph, how to transition from the previous shot to the next, how to design the action in the chase scene, understands that these forms only appear in the movie, and drama and other art forms can't do it." So it was Keaton who defined the movie. To me, you know, the greatest pioneer — not only because of his work, but also because he can tell stories concisely and powerfully — is Hitchcock. But there are also a lot of other great filmmakers.
SG: You and Kubrick once talked about driving a digital innovation. Did you see him?
GM: Never seen it. But we talk a lot on the phone. When we did the pre-digitization of Baby Piggy together, we didn't understand how to make Piggy talk. I understood that this movie had to be shot on location, not the classic mechanical movement, the hand-drawn animation. There's a place called Newbury that you should know.
Stills from Baby Piggy
SG: I know.
GM: That's about 30 miles from London and about 30 miles from Stanley Kubrick's home. There was also a guy who worked at Quantel, a well-known British film and television equipment developer, which was also in Newbury at the time. They produce film, but it's the kind of high-definition film that's used for military and medical purposes. This guy is a genius. And it occurred to me, Oh my God, if you could get Stanley Kubrick to work with this guy, they could drive technological innovation in the whole industry, because Kubrick pushed the lens forward, he pushed the camera forward, he pushed everything forward. If they can work together... So every night I was there, they invited us to go inside the company. Together, we worked out how to control the 2D image and make the piggy speak. At that time, my direction was actually wrong, because it was not a digital image, and it was never possible to achieve the goal of piggy talking, and the final effect looked fake. Anyway, we arranged for Stanley to come over and see what we were doing because he'd always been interested in technology. But then, a day or two before he came, his pregnant daughter was going to give birth, so he went back to London. They didn't make it happen. But I don't know what things would have turned out if they had seen it. I think the technological change must be happening somewhere else.
SG: Did you talk about the phone again later?
GM: Oh, it's endless, it's been said every day.
SG: Wow, about Baby Piggy?
GM: About anything. I explained to him that we were trying to get a piggy to speak. He also happened to be fascinated by the technique of no editing to the end. But he's the kind of guy who can't hold it up as soon as he opens the box. Every night, we would sit and talk for a long, long time about the progress of the shooting, and I knew he was curious about what was about to happen. Of course, he told me something very novel, and he got some people, and if he heard that a novel was very good, he sent them the book and asked them to read it, but these people didn't know they were reading it for Stanley Kubrick. I guess he was looking for these people through newspaper ads. Then he sent the book to these people and asked them to give feedback on the synopsis or comments about the story of the book, and he would read each piece of feedback. All processes are anonymous. But he said there were housewives among these people, lawyers, all sorts of people. I think, yes, it's a really good way to spark possibilities. Otherwise, you'll have to randomly look for inspiration materials at bookstores or airports.
SG: Imagine if a reader said, "Got it, The Shining, don't make this." Oh my God, that's a big mistake. ”
GM: Well, but they'll never know who's looking for them to do it. I think it's interesting. I asked him, "How many people have you found to do this?" "If I remember correctly, he looked for about thirty people.
SG: Who do you generally consult? Is your wife?
GM: My wife, my friends, and the people I work with. But a lot of times I talk to myself in my head. The story itself seems to have a gravitational pull, and all the things you experience in your life, all your interests in the world, will converge at some point. My family thought I was a little weird. I don't read fiction, I only look at non-fiction.
SG: What do you usually read? What have you been reading lately?
GM: Everything about science - although what I've been rereading recently isn't a book about science, it's great, it's about Catherine the Great, written by Robert Massie. He wrote about Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, all great. I don't know anything about the history of Russia, but the book is so vividly written because she is a great woman.
SG: I heard she slept with a horse.
GM: I don't know if that's true. But she spends two or three hours every morning memorizing all of her previous meetings. This detail comes to life.
SG: Would you make a movie about her?
GM: No, not necessarily. But in the world described in the book, Catherine the Great's attempts to abolish feudalism failed—I mean, she was the emperor of Russia, but she couldn't abolish it. The reason I re-read this book is that the structure of Fury Road is similar, in the film, everyone is a commodity, which is almost the same as feudal society. People make no difference. I mean, just as when they sell wagons or weapons or food, they need to advertise themselves, they will do their best to sell their slaves, their skills, and so on. Some theaters had many talented slaves. There is a story in the book about a Russian nobleman who had a brilliant man who later rebelled and performed in shackles.
SG: Do you feel like a rebel too?
GM: Limited to my own imagination. For real life, I won't. To a certain extent, there will also be some rebellion in my films. But, no, I wouldn't judge myself that way.
SG: You went to medical school and you trained in medicine. What kind of doctor could you have become?
GM: I never had a chance to actually be a doctor. But the situation is, I might be interested in surgery because I grew up in a environment where kids were doing something by themselves. We keep applying smears and so on. Later many of my friends became great surgeons, a profession that required a high degree of concentration. I don't know if I'm capable of being a good surgeon or what I might be. I don't have a chance to find out. But I'm still curious about this profession. I think one of the most important things in life is exploration. I was often drawn to a certain field, which led me to make a living from film. It's not a profession, it's a "what the hell is this thing like?" "The inquiry mindset. When I actually had the opportunity to make a short film, it felt like —
SG: Was it the short film you made with your brother in college?
GM: Right. Oh my God, that's all old stuff, you know it. It was exam week when I heard about a "one-minute movie" contest. You have to shoot a one-minute movie in a room in an hour, and the editing needs to be done in the camera, there is no sound. I asked my brother, another brother, not my twin brother, and I said, "How are you going to shoot?" He said, "I was thinking. I was supposed to review the exam, but I said to him, "Listen, why don't you shoot something very simple, something complicated is too difficult." "The idea is simple, enough to hold up for a minute. I thought about it for about 56 seconds and decided to take a long shot of a man standing against a wall, wearing a long coat, long hair, and a hat. Then he turned to the camera and a line of subtitles appeared, in that cartoon font, written on a piece of cardboard. He said, "The reason I like movies is that nothing in movies is real. Then he turned his head, and suddenly his head, hat, and long hair flew into the air, and his coat fell to the ground. My brother got a balloon, he put a wig, a hat on the balloon, and popped the balloon. That's how he shot it. Then it's interesting that he won an award for this film, and the reward was to participate in a film studio, and he went. To make a long story short, I was like, "This is my last summer vacation before I became a doctor, and I want to go to this studio too." "Later, due to a pure coincidence, I also squeezed in: at that time I had a small electric bike, and I rode 900 miles to that studio. After the receptionist heard that I had ridden 900 miles on this little Honda 90 C .C, she said, "Did you ride so far here just to attend this studio?" Then she went on to say, "Listen, I'll try to get you a spot." "Then I went in. There I met Byron Kennedy, who later became my creative partner. This is my first exposure to film. Film editing is addictive because the moment you bring the temporal dimension into the film, the narrative is generated. Two-dimensional images, like the ones I drew before, have the ability to narrate. This simple thing fascinated me and sparked me to become a filmmaker.
SG: I want to play a video from your first feature film. Because I found it interesting that you formed your own style so quickly. Think about the great directors — Hitchcock, John Ford, Ozu, these directors I like — it basically took some time to find their own style. And it's a sad time: if you make a movie that doesn't sell well, then don't think about the chance to make it again. But you seem to have entered this field and are very mature. You can see great progress in your work, so we'll talk about that later. First, let's look at a clip from Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior.
Director and protagonist Gibson was filmed on location in Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior
(Play video, audience applause)
SG: As an amateur, it's really good. (Laughs) One thing that appeals to me is that you seem very gentle and relaxed, and it's pleasant to get along with, right? But there's a huge, unbelievable, restless tension in your film. Where did this feeling come from?
GM: Well, even my mother asked me that question. After watching Fury Road, she asked me, "George, I can basically understand Happy Bigfoot." She's almost exactly the same as your question: "But where does that feeling come from?" "I think there are many reasons, most of them are caused by the narrative of the film. I'm really interested in cinematic language, and I also like to fiddle with the instruments. The reason is more of a narrative, in a way they are dynamic and intense, they are images of movement. I remember the first "Mad Max" based on my experience working as a doctor in a hospital.
Stills from Happy Bigfoot
SG: What do you say?
GM: Did you know, I've only recently realized that I wouldn't have been a filmmaker without the experience of a doctor. Because as a doctor, you have a perspective that no one else has. It's all about perspective. Broadly speaking, you can look at the world from the perspective of an epidemiologist, statistically, the statistics of disease. You can also observe a person from the perspective of an assistant physician assisting in the operation. You can really see inside the human body, inside the brain, and so on. You can use a microscope to observe the movement of human cells or look at blood cells. You can observe people and see how they react in extreme situations, and they may be badly injured or their lives are in danger. I think these experiences permeated my later filmmaking. It wasn't until recently that I began to realize that maybe this experience had a big impact on me. But I just love chasing movies.
SG: It's not just about chasing. There have been chase movies since the silent film era, but no one has ever made this way like you. It's almost like Jackson Pollock's approach to painting, which looks disorderly, but it's a "controllable disorder," as a friend who works at The Hollywood Reporter put it. The film's control of disorder is extremely subtle. Is it this sense of control that attracts you? Or is the disorder itself attracting you?
GM: I think it's the contradiction between the two. I think life itself is a contradiction. If it's just pure disorder, then it's noise, and if everything is controlled, then it's dead silence. You're trying to find a balance. I think humanity is trying to find that balance. We try to find the meaning of noise, we try to identify the information implied in noise. We are in a noisy and growing environment, and that's when the power of the story is revealed. We're looking for some kind of connection between the two. When I made East Town Witch, I learned a lot from Jack Nicholson — you know, he's a great actor, and he's cool to work with, and he's very smart. He knows it too, like an athlete — I guess that's why smart people like him love sports, whether you're a basketball player or an actor, in the moment of actually performing or playing, you have to give yourself all to that moment to give that kind of impact and give up everything else.
Stills from "The Witch of East Town"
SG: Are you the same way as a director? Because you drew 3500 storyboards for Fury Road. When do you feel like , "Okay, almost done"?
GM: 3500 storyboards are a good piece of material for a film that has no lines and only relies on spatial performance. Where the car is placed, where the actors stand, what is the role of that shot, and so on. But when it comes to live shooting, you can't rely on storyboards, you have to think about what you have at hand. What scenes should I take when I frame the machine? That's when you have to erase the storyboard from your mind. Surprisingly, they allow you to better organize the resources in front of you. When you're making a movie, you often make changes halfway so I didn't completely abandon storyboards, which is better.
SG: I find one of the interesting things, you talk about contradictions, and that's the center of your work. There is a sense of disorder and control in your work, there is also a very avant-garde way of expression, and you also use the music of Saint-Saôn and Verdi in Baby Piggy to make the opera appear in such a modern work... You go to Hollywood through the "Mad Max" series. You made Lorenzo's Oil, which shocked the world because it was so unique. You made "The Witch of East Town", but the shooting experience was not very pleasant. You gave up twice, why?
GM: Because the production process was chaotic, I didn't even know what I was doing. When I was making Twilight Zone, I had the opportunity to finish "E. T. Kennedy" with Steven Spielberg, Frank Marshall, and Kathy Kennedy. T.) people working together and feel great and at ease. I was like, "Ah, this is Hollywood. "You know, the stories that tell Hollywood drunken fans aren't all true. The script of "East Town Witch" is not bad, but I have taken the team and the way the film was made lightly. I thought it was as simple as, "Isn't it like working with people at Amblin?" "But it really isn't. I didn't recruit enough staff. Some producers have a confused idea. If it weren't for Jack Nicholson, things would have gotten completely out of hand. Things are going haphazardly. The first mistake I made was when they asked me at production meetings, which is also a routine question in these kinds of meetings, "Say, how can I lower my budget?" I said, "Oh, I don't need a trailer. "Because I've never been involved in the trailer. My time was either with the actors or on the set. When we were in Australia, that's how we made the "Mad Max" series. I never cut a trailer because we just got straight to the point and made the film face the audience. It makes sense. I've also been one of the producers of my films. But the signal from this behavior is, "Oh, this guy is very talkative." ”
Stills of "Yin And Yang Demon World"
SG: Oh my God.
GM: It's interesting. People always think I'm polite, and they will take my politeness as weakness. That's what Jack told me. He said, "Be careful, they'll mistake your politeness for weakness." He added, "You've got to make them think you're a little crazy." "(Laughs) Seriously, it's funny. When I asked them for 150 extras, I was really worried about filling the hall. But only 75 came. I said, "In that case, I can't shoot." "So next time if I want 150, I'll ask for 300." They will say 300 is too much, why do you want so much. I said, that was the last time you only recruited 75. So the game begins. The same is true of the photography team. I would ask for an extra camera group, but I wouldn't use them because I'm used to shooting individual shots — you know, just one shot at a time. That's what I've always done. Once a producer got mad at me on set, and I still don't know why. I didn't go to the set the next day. As a result, all the people on the set came up to me and asked, "What's wrong, what's wrong?" Oh, and we'll fix the problem. I said, "If that producer is on the scene, I won't go." "So I've inadvertently become habitually bad guys. Bad behavior can bring me convenience, and politeness will only make me difficult to walk.
SG: That's right.
GM: And then I inadvertently discovered the cause of this pathology. It was Jack Nicholson who helped me negotiate, and I still appreciate him to this day. But I am more grateful for everything he has brought me than this experience: the things we talk about, the contradictions about rigor and indulgence, about the courage to create, and so on. Being able to learn his skills was what I gained from making that film.
SG: Are you talking to him about anything else?
GM: Actually, I think of him in every movie after that! I thought, "Well, can Jack play a role in this one?" "But it didn't happen.
SG: Then you went back to Australia and made two Baby Piggy movies. Today I'm a little sorry: I wanted to compare the one you produced and the one you directed, and choose some clips from them, because the two films are very different. I'm guessing you've all seen Baby Pig, but you're not necessarily watching Pig in the City. Let's look at a fragment now, because I can see that there is an advance in the surreal expression in your work. I think you'll know what I'm talking about when you see the video. That's interesting, isn't it?
GM: Yeah, it's like watching flashbacks of my own life.
"Piggy Baby 2: Piglet Into Town" poster image
SG: Why didn't Chris Nuan direct the second Baby Pig?
GM: He has other projects on hand. I can't remember exactly.
SG: Cass was very positive. Is it the role of james Cromwell as a farmer? I always wanted to say that his name was Oliver Cromwell, and that his father, John Cromwell, was a Hollywood director. He always played the opposite role in big business in movies, but he really looked like a farmer.
GM: James's story is wonderful. His father was a British director, and James was actually a very good actor, but he never got the opportunity to play important roles. He really felt that going south to Australia to play a pig was the end of his career. He told his agent, "I've had enough, I don't want to shoot anymore." "But he's very serious about playing a role, and one of the details I really like is that there's a shot in the first film of his boots walking in the rain — he insists on walking in those boots instead of using a stand-in. When clapping his hands for close-ups, he also insisted on using his own hands. The film earned him an Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actor, which was particularly good. After that, his career flourished again. He does look a lot like a farmer.
SG: You seem happy when you talk about these actors, like him, like Jack Nicholson. Which part of the filmmaking is your favorite? Scripts, actors, editing, filming? Hitchcock hated filming.
GM: When I write, I love that feeling. I love the moment when anything is possible. When I was pre-prepared, everything was fun. The shooting process has its own "painful and happy" moments. Shooting is not a moment to reflect on because you are in the middle of a game process. But when you make a cartoon, the situation is different, and you can stop and reflect on it, and this aspect of animation is easier. But when it comes to actual shooting, the process is so tight that you can't stop and say, "Oh, that feels great, we made it," and then stop and enjoy the moment, no, because you have to think about the next shot right away. It's like in a football game where you kick a great kick and you can't suddenly stop and cheer, "Yeah, that kick is amazing." "The game continues.
SG: Do you keep a diary?
GM: Don't remember. Filming is too busy. Interestingly, you make a movie and then you're engaged in editing, where you have to confront all the previous mistakes and solve all the problems, whether it's the script or the production. Then the face of the movie will be very different. So it's an interesting puzzle. I love the editing room. I also love working with composers because it's a different experience — because when you're working on the soundtrack, you're usually working on the themes of the film, the themes that were originally conceived.
SG: Some people describe your work as "visual music."
GM: Very appropriate.
Director George Miller, a feature film award nominee for “Mad Max: Fury Road,” poses with his wife, film editor Margaret Sixel, at the 68th Directors Guild of America Awards at the Hyatt Regency Century Plaza on Saturday, Feb. 6, 2016 in Los Angeles. (Photo by Chris Pizzello/Invision/AP)
SG: Your wife works with you, she's an editor. Was she an editor before she became your wife?
GM: She used to edit for other people, and we worked together in the television industry.
SG: How do you do that? When she edits, do you stay in the editing room with her?
GM: She has a separate editing room, and there are other editing rooms for the assistant editors. For this part of her, I've learned to let her decide for herself, because she can usually see things I can't see. My first instinct is always to say, "Well, that's not going to work." Most of the time I feel like I'm right, but if I leave her alone, she always surprises me — I'll feel, "Oh, this way looks better." ”
SG: Like?
GM: There are some small, cumulative places in Fury Road. From this point of view, it is an art of stitching.
SG: The editing of this film is wonderful. Do you disagree with the handling of the clip?
GM: A lot. She once said to me, "I'm helping you so you don't embarrass yourself." (Laughs) She was really useful. She tolerates boredom less than I do, so she gets tired of monotonous repetitive things easily. Editing isn't about stringing the action together because that's boring. Editing is about looking for a strong causal relationship. One shot to the next. Much like a composer connecting music together to form superimposed chords, main melodies, rhythms, and other parts. The two work a lot like that.
SG: Do you go home and don't want to talk to each other, because you're all —"
GM: No. We all talk. Even when there is a dispute, we listen to each other's ideas. Then we'll talk to the kids, and so on. The only moment of tension between us was in the editing room, when we disagreed. Or that's the hard job of managing negatives. It's like fighting a huge Rubik's Cube, trying to make everything orderly, very draining. I know that sometimes the better option for me is to let her deal with some problems alone, and in the end she can do it well. I'll come back afterwards and say, "Oh, awesome, you got it out." She'll say, "Do you really think that?" "Because she's still immersed in the details, but the overall look is already good. But the most tense moment between us was in the editing room, when both of us were trying to solve a problem. I often lash out at myself: "How did I do this as a director?" Why don't I do that? ”
SG: Have you ever been angry?
GM: Not often, because admittedly on set, getting angry is a very inefficient option. People usually only perform best in a relaxed state, especially when you do some high-risk operations. We have a very good stunt group and a photography team, and the premise for them to work well is to stay relaxed. The set was generally full of laughter, but everyone knew in their hearts that they were doing a very, very serious thing. The few times I've lost my temper in my career have made me realize that this is a useless act. Someone loses their dignity, usually myself, and it's not a good way to work as a team.
SG: It took you 17 years to get back to making action movies, during which time you shot two Happy Feet. One of the things that's funny is that you said you found out in the first Happy Bigfoot that Godard said— I remember Godard saying, "There's only one best camera position to shoot."
GM: I think Polanski said it.
SG: Let's take a look. I think the whole movie is awesome, let's enjoy a short part of it.
SG: Don't you like it? Great.
GM: I suddenly felt very similar to the chase scene in Baby Piggy 2: Piggy Goes to Town.
SG: Of course, you love to shoot chase scenes. The part I like is — we talk about the contradictions in your work — and there's something else that shook me. One of them is that, in the midst of great fear, there is also a hint of warmth. I think what makes your work great is that throughout the Mad Max series – a lot of the dystopian settings are very cold, but there's also a lot of heartwarming. I want to go back to the camera and understand how you decided to shoot these passages, and how you might have thought of other ways, or even the wrong way, to tell us a closer look.
GM: Obviously, when you do cartoons, you start with storyboards. But the problem with storyboards is that when you try to add the dimension of time, it still can't move continuously. You have to make samples. But when you shoot a cartoon like this, you need to gradually build the scene and refine it through previews and so on. Here, things start to get interesting: in cartoons, as the scenes get richer, you can change the angle of the shot, so even if all the scenes are set up, you can also reshoot at a different angle. You usually start with sound. Then move the camera, which is very costly. You sit with a skilled camera operator, and then you adjust the paragraphs. The reason I love doing cartoons is that you can constantly adjust the order of the clips. By adjusting the camera angle, by adopting another editing mode, you can tell a completely different story with exactly the same footage. Then I realized that Polanski was right, if you're telling a story with a camera, it's best to have only one camera position.
SG: I'm very interested in this point of view, isn't there actually a lot of perfect camera positions, but only one of them can best express your perspective? Editing is similar: if you watch a lot of Bergman's films, if you give them to a Hollywood director, the editing might be faster. He'll cut straight from you to me, and so on. But Bergman would last a long shot. If a traditional editor were to cut it, he might cut it off, or change the angle. Is this true?
GM: I think from a narrative point of view, you're right. Every different director, editor, makes something different. But one thing you need to know is that ultimately, consciously or unconsciously, we have to agree that the whole is more important than the part. The final presentation is an overall effect. In the case of Fury Road, the overall style is very consistent: you have the same people sitting in the same position in the car, walking through a scene with similar landscapes, and if you shoot each scene with similar shots, similar editing methods, etc., the overall style will look very close. We had to try to control the budget as much as possible, making sure that the angle of each shot would present something new. So, you're right, and the trade-off is entirely up to the director. But going back to the metaphor of "editing like music", once you establish a fixed rhythm, a fixed style, each wonderful movement will become logical, and if you replace one of the elements, then the whole piece will be different.
SG: How do you create it? Lock yourself in your room, lie down wrapped in a blanket and think, "Oh my God, how am I going to direct this one?" "How did you deal with it?"
GM: It's not about wrapping up in a blanket and asking, "How am I going to direct this one?" "Although you need to ask yourself, it's more like a pipe dream. You have to give yourself time, whether it's when you're driving or when you're in the shower. The morning bath is an important moment because it's a half-dream, half-waking moment, and the clips are playing right in your head. It's like playing time and then putting in the work: Okay, today we're going to shoot ten minutes of content on a storyboard, or something else you're going to accomplish. Then you sit down and start working. A large number of stories are conceived in daydreams. It's a very slow, iterative process.
SG: Do you dream a lot?
GM: Yes. And it's intense. And when you make a film, the dreams you have are all about the film. Especially magical. The film completely invades your life. Sometimes dreams are very anxious. One of the dreams I often have is that I keep imagining a shot missing or a part of the story missing. "Ah, I forgot to shoot this."
GM: Guy Norris, the stunt coordinator who was in charge of the second phase of production, said to me, "George, I had the same dream. Tell you, it's exactly the same. I kept dreaming that I forgot to do this and do that. Now I say to myself, "Oh, you're not the only one who has this kind of dream. "You're dealing with work all the time. When I talk about "pain and pleasure", there is a part of "pain" that means that you can only think and cannot do.
SG: Fury Road is almost entirely a dreamy sight. One thing I'm interested in is this: I've always felt that great artists, their work is constantly changing and evolving. If you look at Shakespeare, those great tragedies are about exploring the spiritual dimension of humanity or some other issue. But by the time Of The Tempest, it's a completely dreamlike world, and the character exploration is no longer relevant. You go from the first part of Mad Max to the fourth part, and we feel as if we are on the edge of reality, and you are not trying to show us whether those things are possible or believable. There were moments —and it was wonderful to watch this clip together—when everything on the screen turned black and white, and a moment when the sky turned red. This is not logical, but because like a dream, its changes are related to our emotions. Let's watch a passage of "Fury Road" together, and it's so good.
(Clip played, audience applause)
SG: Oh my God, unbelievable, shocking. You can watch this clip over and over again, but you still can't figure it out.
GM: Can't figure out what, the process of shooting or the idea? It's interesting to note that the things you're talking about are actually related to the contradictions mentioned earlier. The way to make this film is that once the worldview is finalized, it's like making a documentary. It's not that the style is documentary, but we need to clarify everything that's relevant to it—the internal logic of everything in the film, not just the props and the vehicles, but even the language—that requires a coherent logic, as if you're watching an anthropological film and learning about an unfamiliar culture. You see something you don't fully understand, but you know it means a lot to the people in the film. So for example, someone always asks me why war boys spray paint on their mouths, what does that mean? I have my own opinion on this, you know, there are many such rituals in war. I remember reading the Vietnam War materials that said Cambodian soldiers would take the "J" shaped amulet around their necks and hold it in their mouths and rush to the battlefield. That gave me some inspiration, and a lot more. So you ask, "Is this a dream?" "It's interesting. It's a fanatical dream — but I think all movies have to do with dreams. Movies are open dreams. We walk into the cinema with strangers and share the same dream in the dark.
Stills from Mad Max 4: Fury Road
SG: The most interesting thing is that the language of cinema has evolved so rapidly. Its syntax is updated every few years. Therefore, the film must be related to the deepest things in our dreams, the kind of "editing" of dreams that are completely divorced from real life, but they are very similar to movies.
GM: Yes, yes, you're right. I never thought of that.
SG: So my question is: the idea and the shooting process, which one impressed you more? First of all, the conceptual question is deeper about the role of cinema, pure cinema? It's not like, "I'm going to make a story about transgender people in the 1920s," which isn't necessarily a film, it can be done through other forms of media. Therefore, "Mad Max" needs to be conceptually original. How did you do it? You have to have novel concepts and strong execution to be a great director, right?
GM: Yes. It's like how I described the short film my brother made, how I got into a film workshop—the one that made a one-minute movie an hour. A perfect example. The concept fits perfectly with the medium, props, and resources available at hand. Like you just proved, I'm interested in action movies. Your skills give you enough confidence to say, WELL, we can go make a movie like that. When the concept is first started, the individual's abilities should also be considered. But when you're into real time, it gets different. You know the kind: "Gee, I wanted to shoot this shot, but I had to do it another way." "Over time and technology, we've been able to shoot what we want to shoot more freely.
SG: What was the toughest decision you've ever made? Was it the casting of Mad Max, the use of color or the music? Which part is the one that bothers you the most?
GM: Frankly, what often worries me the most is security issues. This is the biggest problem. Although a lot of CCs were involved in the production, there was still a need for live actors. There is a bridge section where Tom Hardy and Josh Helman fight on the roof of a running car. They wear protective gear and can be suspended in the air, but you're still worried. So we were very careful about preparing and rehearsing, but when you've been shooting in an African suburb for 120 days, the exhaustion is predictable and the state is lax. This is the biggest difficulty. The most difficult decision? I do not know. You know, the whole shoot is like — boiled frogs. Heat up a little bit each time. So there is not a critical moment. One time we needed to shoot a 3D shot locally, but we only had six cameras. We tested the machines and we realized that if one of them broke, or if dust and heat got two or three of them scrapped, it was really troublesome. Sometimes you have to say, "Well, we can do post-conversion 3D." "But luckily, the post-production 3D worked well – and all of our efforts to shoot locally were in vain. There are moments when decisions need to be made, but the biggest problem is keeping you safe.
SG: You said you wanted to make another Mad Max, was the script in place?
GM: Because projects are often postponed, we dug into the backstory, and Nick Lathouris and I wrote two other stories.
SG: Is it the full script?
GM: One of them is.
SG: Is it happening in the Wasteland?
GM: I haven't decided on the title yet. But one of them we discussed the details enough, and he wrote these into a short story.
SG: Is this your next shooting plan? Or do you want to try making a movie like Tangerine (the 2015 Sundance screening "Orange" was shot entirely on the iPhone 5s) I can give you my iPhone now! Shoot it with it.
GM: Yeah, I love the footage of Orange that was shot with an iPhone.
SG: So what's the next plan?
GM: Hope is a small and fast project. I used to joke about making Mad Max: Rampage Alley.
SG: (Laughs) Okay, question time.
QUESTION: Hello Mr. Miller, I'd like to know, given that Friosa became a classic figure, like Ripley in the Alien series, with a lot of cultural influence – I wonder if you're surprised that audiences think of this film as a feminist film, or if your original intention was to make a feminist film?
GM: Are you at COS?
AUDIENCE: Yes, I cos-become Friosa, my brother is Max.
GM: Awesome. Thank you.
(Applause from the audience)
GM: Oh my God, that's great.
SG: What about your robot?
GM: I'm Max, and I'm more like Immortal Joe. Well, the original idea of the story wasn't to say, "Okay, let's make a feminist movie." "The idea is really simple, I just want to see if we can put more content into a chase movie, to what extent we can create a full character and a complete worldview, which is a kind of allegorical story that can resonate." You know, we can see their common motif in all the historical stories. Domination, hierarchy. Everyone in the film has the mark of the immortal old Joe on their backs, even if in the film I say that Max is a blood bag, the woman is a fertility machine and a milk machine, the war boy is war nourishment, and so on—the original idea is just a chase movie, who is being chased, what is the danger, what contradictions are between the characters, what it means to be human, what it means to have five wives. They need a "road warrior", they have to be a woman, she needs to have a backstory, her hometown is called "Mother Oasis", and finally they meet the Uvarini people here. These clues evolved from the original concept.
Problem: In Fury Road, there is often no clear demarcation between plot and non-plot sounds, such as the Duffer warriors on the screen, those war drums, and the guitar accompaniment during the battle. So I would like to say, can you talk about the experience of cooperation with Junkie XL, Ben Osmo?
GM: That's a long story. In short, our sound team is amazing. For me, it's a silent soundtrack. Initially, believe it or not, I didn't even want music. I think the guitarist, duffer fighter and drummer in the film, and the noise of the car are enough for the sound performance. But later, when the characters established an emotional relationship, the music began to enter, especially between Max and Friosa, and max's character became more human. I thought it was time to add some musical elements. So this film is an excellent sound experiment. In that sense, there's a lot of work to be done, but fortunately I met Junkie XL's music, which someone from Warner sent me. The composer is called Tom Holkenborg, or you can call him Antonios... His Dutch name is long and nice, but I can't remember all the middle names, only Antonios Holenborg. He was fantastic. He was very erudite and had worked as a lawyer. He composed music while studying law school. He is very good at sound design and has done a lot of mixing himself. He can make works with different styles as required. He can create lyrical, beautiful melodies or soundtracks for tense sequences. He was the first composer I worked with – I was lucky enough to work with a good composer – and he could even explain to me mathematically the progressive method of music, which was amazing. He would play me a piece of Mahler's movement and say, "This is mathematical progression." "Musicians often do this. So he's critical to the overall effect. He introduced me to Chris Jenkins to mix for dialogue and background music, Gregg Rudloff, to do sound effects, and so on. Everyone thinks this movie is a good opportunity, and I haven't told you about the work process, but I just told you about these people. They contributed a lot of ideas to the film. Also, silence is also very important. I'm just going to tell you one thing. At the end of the chase scene we saw just now, at the test screening, I felt that the audience was almost going to applaud, but the applause did not last. The next shot of Max waking up in the sand is long and I thought, why don't they keep clapping? Isn't it a lovely thing to hear applause in a movie theater? Then I realized that the sound of the place wasn't exactly silent, there was a very tiny, sustained, deep sound that continued from the last shot to the scene. The audience's ears capture the sound, so they're expecting something else to happen, rather than realizing that the passage is over. If there is complete silence and no sound, it seems to imply that the audience can applaud. That's interesting to me. I didn't expect a sound I could barely hear to affect the audience's reaction.
Question: I'm curious about your writing process, how do you switch between creating cartoons for kids and action movies for adults?
GM: I have to say that every film is created differently. I like to collaborate, and depending on the people you work with, different people will have different creative processes. For Fury Road, we started out with the storyline and started making storyboards first. It's exciting. I work with Brendan McCarthy, who is a great illustrator. He designed it with me, and then two more storyboard artists joined in, which was the first phase of creation, and then we started writing the script. For a film like Happy Bigfoot, I sat in a room with the writers, sorted out the storyline together, and wrote it down. So depending on the project, the way of creation will be different.
Question: A small question about Yin Yang Demon Realm. I think you directed the best part, and I wonder why you filmed that famous nightmare scene twenty thousand feet away.
GM: Interesting question. You know, I've always loved the episodes of Yin And Yang Demon Realm. Then Spielberg decided to make a movie called "Yin and Yang Demon World", and I guess he also watched "Mad Max 2". That was a long time ago, and he had a high opinion of me. He said, "Hey, we originally only wanted to make three episodes of Yin And Yang Demon Realm, but now we want to make a fourth part, and we want you to join." "I remember the content of the episode, I thought, great, I really wanted to join. So they opened up a space for me. I didn't create my own story, they decided what to shoot and handed it to me. And the shooting process was very enjoyable.