"Ancient Chinese painting" is a historical narrative, while the word "ancient painting" is more like a mystery. Nowadays, when visiting museums and art galleries has become a daily life of Chinese, people still have some trepidation in their hearts when it comes to appreciating ancient Chinese paintings, and we will worry that we do not understand painting techniques and lack historical knowledge, so that we cannot understand the techniques of a painting and the true meaning of a painting.
Huang Xiaofeng, a professor at the Central Academy of Fine Arts, recently published a book, "New Catalogue of Ancient Paintings: A History of the Eyes", in which he gave us a taste of a unique Chinese painting world through 35 works that he called "lost pearls", saying: "Don't mistakenly think that looking at an ancient painting requires so many prerequisites. Theoretically, just bring your own eyes. ”
"New Catalogue of Ancient Paintings" was shortlisted for the first Blade Book Awards for Art Book of the Year with a unique perspective. In this issue, we talk to him about how to approach the seemingly cold ancient paintings through the passage of art history, and then appreciate the ideological charm in art, so that these ancient paintings can be rejuvenated by the eyes of today's people.
04:42Why people are always a little afraid to appreciate ancient Chinese paintings
13:45 Use "text perusal" as a method
18:02 "National Wind Fever" can not just be a curious eye
25:45 The study of Chinese painting is not only about identifying authenticity and falsity, but "forgery" has its significance
40:10 Artistic analysis of vulgar sociology is "telling history by figure"
46:32 Draw yourself a map of the palace city of Beijing, which has a geometric impact on an official
53:05 Why does Bao Huashi say that he sees the core values of "equality" and "freedom" in traditional Chinese paintings
57:10 Do we need to be wary of over-interpreting images?
Guests
Huang Xiaofeng
Professor at the Central Academy of Fine Arts
Ownership
Hao Han
Editor of New Weekly
Nelly
Media people
01
What to do if you look at the painting and lack self-confidence
Nelly: You say we have to look at the work itself, rather than read a few books and try to understand the painting, but my feeling is that most ordinary viewers are actually less confident in their ability to handle visual material. I believe that there are many viewers who will first look carefully at the text material introduced in the exhibition, and then look at the painting as an auxiliary material.
In the introduction of this book, you emphasize that "text reading" is a new change in the Chinese academic circles over the years, and even some scholars have proposed the concept of "super close reading", but this way of looking at paintings, for ordinary audiences, can they really see more things?
Huang Xiaofeng: I am divided into two aspects, looking at Chinese painting, many people are always a little timid, I think this is very normal, in a conceptual area that we are not familiar with, we will always be timid, but what I want to say is that ancient painting is not the kind of field that requires professional knowledge, that is to say, it does not require you to have the knowledge of painting, not to become a painter, after you paint well, you can go to see the painting. Since looking at a painting does not require you to be a painter, then we wonder, does looking at a painting require you to become a connoisseur before you can see it? Obviously not either, so we can put down another burden.
We may think that we are too busy to have time for visual training, and we may not be able to see an exhibition all year round. But it's not like this, you usually read books in the bookstore, books have covers; you usually have nothing at home, you watch TV, advertisements, these are images. If you think about what kind of narrative logic these images embody, and then how they are narrated, this is a visual training habit. Some friends usually ask me if I have the most basic appreciation book recommendation, in fact, I want to say that the most basic is the ordinary feeling, just cultivate this feeling, cultivate the interest in vision. And, I'm sure everyone is interested, but this feeling is meant to be cultivated.
"Text perusal" I don't think it's a method. It is not a panacea, and with it you can read something. It's just a habit of ours, and as long as you develop a habit of "reading the text carefully," you can slowly figure out a set of methods related to yourself, and this is the same for people outside the art profession.
Zhao Tuo's "Furong Jinji Diagram"
I'll give you an example, I used to have a friend who studied naturalism, and he turned me an article. He said Teacher Huang, you see there are two scientists in our field who study birds, and they have published a short article in an international bird magazine, which talks about a painting, which is the "Furong Golden Chicken Diagram" under the name of Song Huizong. The two scientists found something very interesting - the golden pheasant in the painting is different from the two types of native chinese golden pheasant in China. One in China is the "red-bellied golden pheasant" with a red belly, and the other is the "white-bellied golden pheasant" with a white belly. But the two scientists found that the golden pheasant in the painting has both the characteristics of the "red-bellied golden pheasant" and the "white-bellied golden pheasant", so it is most likely a hybrid pheasant, and then they went on to argue this hybrid breed in China. Scientists may have less exposure to art, but for the sake of their own research needs, they will touch some works of art, and then through their perusal, observe unexpected things.
Qi Baishi's "Farming Map"
Let me give you another example. Once, my father and I went to the National Art Museum of China to see an exhibition of Lao She's collection of works, and then I walked up to a painting of Qi Baishi, depicting a cow ploughing the land, and the cow's back was draped in a coat. Then, I thought I was an expert, so I explained to my father, I said that you see Qi Baishi painting is really interesting, the coat is for people to wear, but he wants to put on the cow, showing the relationship between man and cattle in ancient times.
My dad said, you're fooling around because you haven't let the cows go. Ploughing cattle to cultivate land in spring, but the spring rain in the south is very cold, the rain is cold, the cattle will sweat on the plough, and if the spring rain falls on the cow, the cow is prone to illness. As a large livestock in the countryside, if the cattle are sick, a family will suffer very heavy losses, so when the land is ploughed in the spring, if it rains, it must be necessary to clothe the cattle. In fact, different people read the paintings carefully, and according to their own intellectual background, they can always read something. So I say that "perusing" is a habit, and it's even more of a basic thing for people who study art history.
02
Does "forgery" make sense?
Nelly: This book is a collection of a series of op-eds that you published in the journal Chinese Heritage, presenting a study of 35 works. Some of these works are considered forgeries, such as the "Village House Exorcism Map". In the traditional sense, "forgeries" are not the focus of Chinese painting research. But in fact, in the Chinese painting tradition, "forgeries" are also very important, and copying the works of predecessors is an important painting tradition.
Huang Xiaofeng: The production of "forgery" is actually related to its commercial value. Obscure works coupled with the name of a great painter, it may add value, in such a process it is mainly profit at work. Any work, whether true or false, is always produced at a certain time in history. I chose these works to emphasize the "lost pearls", even if some are "forgeries", it is not intentionally fake.
These works still have independent life and independent value, so we can completely put aside who the author is. Theoretically, if you don't know who the author of a painting is, then you're missing a very important part of the analytical element of a work of art, because you don't know the author, which means you can't accurately judge its time, and you're missing many contexts.
Of the 35 works I'm talking about, I'm afraid that more than 2/3 of them don't have particularly clear authors, but I want to discuss a question: when we bypass the level of authors, how do we discuss a work? Is it completely impossible to discuss? If we don't know the author, and we still want to discuss what kind of meaning the picture conveys, should we think of it as the author's meaning, or the audience's meaning?
Anon. "Village House Exorcism Map"
We know that today there will be artists who will say, alas, this critic will come to see my work, but what he says is not what I want to express, the critic will say, what I want to say is not the explicit meaning of your head in this work, you may have some kind of unconscious level, the collective unconscious is the influence of the fashion at that time. For example, if you are a Chinese artist, you may unconsciously be working with Chinese thinking or Chinese aesthetic thinking. If you're an American artist, that might be different.
So, in this book, I actually want to discuss this kind of problem through those unnamed paintings, when we cross the artist, not deliberately to cross it, but because of this or that, we have to cross it, then how do we go through images to go deep into an era?
There is a basic logic in the study of art history, that is, even if you are a particularly famous person, such as a character like Wu Daozi, when you have no reliable works left, I will give you very little space in the book. When you are not a particularly important artist, but you happen to leave a lot of works, then I have to discuss you, even if you have no reputation, no records, I will still try to explore all aspects of your literature, so this is the logic of art history, art history is based on works, so no matter how famous you are, the most important thing is to implement the work.
But our art history textbook writing today, for convenience, it combines these two threads, discussing artists at the same time, but most ordinary art writing has become the history of personal names.
03
The right to "take a photo" with the Forbidden City
Hao Han: The relationship between art and power is often discussed. We all know that most of the famous works of art in the West have patrons, and the relationship between artists and the church, the relationship with the nobility, the relationship with the art market, the divine power and the secular power, including the power of capital and art, are intertwined. But we seem to see less discussion of the relationship between artists, works, and politics in Chinese art history, perhaps because the court painting tradition makes this level less complicated than in Europe.
In this book, you actually tell a lot of works that directly refer to political implications, including "Early Spring Map" and "Beijing Palace City Map". The latter surprised me very much, because when I saw this painting, the image of an official, combined with the entity of the Imperial City of the Forbidden City, it reminded me of many Western paintings, such as a nobleman, sitting in front of his estate, and John Berger did a similar analysis, so-called a manifestation of the power of capital.
Hans Holbein the Younger, The Ambassadors, Collection of the National Gallery, London. "Oil painting is about showing off a new kind of wealth—one that is vibrant and recognized by the powerful purchasing power of money." —John Berg
How will Professor Huang understand the differences in the way the relationship between art and power is presented in Chinese art history and Western art history?
Huang Xiaofeng: "Beijing Palace City Map" is a painting placed in the chapter "The Court", and it must actually be related to imperial power. I am interested in the power in Chinese art, which manifests itself in a very secular way.
For example, "Beijing Palace City Map" is not a court painter assigned by the emperor to paint for officials, it is actually an official who came to Beijing to serve or report for duty, he wants to leave a memorial, similar to taking a photo in front of Tiananmen Square in Beijing, so this thing is not an expression of absolute power.
Anon. "Map of Beijing Palace"
If we take a picture in front of Tiananmen Square, we will not change the identity of the flat-headed people, and the official will draw himself a "Map of Beijing Palace City" and will not change his rank, he may be the identity of an eight-pin official, but we want to think about what it has changed, and why did he let people paint this picture? The image he creates may not change his identity, but he changes the way people think about him, and perhaps eventually affects his promotion and all aspects.
This is a very interesting power relationship conveyed by the painting, it is also made with the help of the image of the Forbidden City, according to research, this imperial palace image is not an officially authorized image, so how ordinary painters and officials can paint a royal palace, and how the knowledge about the Beijing Imperial Palace is circulated, this is very interesting.
Anon. "Map of Beijing Palace City" 2
In the book, I also talk about Song Huizong's "Xianglong Stone Diagram", which is another matter with the relationship between this painting and power, including paintings like "Ruihe Tu". To have power is to do things, and this is my understanding that a person uses power or a culture to achieve a certain goal, so I am thinking that if a painting is made, we discuss it through the perspective of power, depending on what role the work plays in the goal achieved by the final power.
For example, some works were dedicated to the emperor in Beijing, to be shown to the emperor, and even to educate the emperor. In this process, how does power achieve its own purpose through art? Are there unexpected results beyond the basic purpose?
Zhao Tuo's "Xianglong Stone Diagram" (partial)
Let me give you an example, there is a screen in the imperial palace in the Han Dynasty, and on it is a painting of a martyr, a virtuous and talented woman. But the minister found that the emperor was sitting in front of the screen, and the old man secretly aimed back, that is, he was aiming at the beautiful woman painted on the screen. He felt that the painting was a beautiful woman, because it was beautiful and graceful. The Spirited Woman Screen was originally intended to persuade the emperor to act according to this moral model, but in the end it went astray, making the emperor think that she was a beautiful woman. If you say it from the painter's point of view, then when he draws a picture of a martyr woman, does he feel that he must paint these women particularly beautifully? If he feels the need, where does his judgment come from? Would he have thought that the emperor would know my name and reuse me?
In short, art and power often form interesting and even unexpected interactive relationships in some accidents.
Zhao Tuo's "RuiHe Tu"
04
The dangers of politicization and overinterpretation of art
Nelly: I don't know if Professor Huang has read the American art historian Bao Huashi's "West has East", but by combing through the literature and visual materials of pre-industrial China and the West, he put forward a very novel point of view in my opinion, he believes that such so-called values as "equality", "selection of talents" and "free feedback of public opinion" actually originate in China.
I was very impressed with his views, but I also wondered whether if we interpreted the artistic images in a very political way, whether we were to over-interpret the intentions of the paintings and the painters themselves.
Huang Xiaofeng: This involves several major issues, one is the relationship between China and the West, especially the exchange of images and ideas between China and the West. Personally, I think that Bao Huashi's conclusion can be enlightening, he is very typical of thinking about the relationship between images and society from the perspective of sociology or social history, and sometimes I agree with him. But some of the images he's studied, and I've done my own, I don't quite agree with his judgment about the relationship between certain works and a large social thought.
For example, some of his articles will involve several works, one is the Song Dynasty Li Song's "Cargo Lang Diagram", which depicts the cargo lang carrying a burden to the countryside to sell goods to women and children. The other is Zhou Chen's "Map of displaced persons", which I also talk about in the book. When Bao Huashi talks about these two works, he regards them as the products of the advanced ideas of the times, and he believes that "Cargo Lang Tu" embodies such things as humanity.
Li Song's "Cargo Lang Diagram"
He said that this thing has been very developed in China's Tang and Song dynasties, that is, the attention to people, he said that there is also Liu Zongyuan's "Snake Catcher", paying attention to the people at the bottom, which reflects sympathy for the people and emphasizes the concept of the people. In his concept, he emphasized the "people" statement, that is, the European concept originally emphasized the nobility, and later became the emphasis on the people, and sovereignty lies in the people. He said that in China, there has long been an emphasis on "people", including the "Map of Displaced People", which reflects the concern for low-class beggars.
But through the study of these two works, I found that it may not be as he says, at least it is not a direct embodiment. This is actually a question of "taking pictures to prove history", and I do not reject this, but what I want to say is that you must prove well that you must have a process of "proof", not just "argument", that is, "picture theory", it will become the artistic interpretation of the "vulgar sociology" that we just discussed, just using montage to put things together like PPT, and then say that they are related. There are too many things that images can interpret, but what is over-interpretation?
Zhou Chen's "Map of displaced people"
Some time ago, I attended a conference, and a good friend gave a report on the problem of interpretation, and his entry point was Freud's interpretation of Michelangelo's image of Moses. Combining the research of some other scholars, he proposes an interesting statement, he believes that the interpretation of images is itself facing a psychological problem. For example, why did Freud interpret the image of Moses? Because all he had in mind was to study mental illness, to study hysteria, he forced himself to explain it. He didn't explain it that way, and he felt uncomfortable. In simple terms, he attains a self-fulfillment through interpretation.
The famous 19th-century psychologist Freud questioned the views of his predecessors about the Image of Moses, trying to analyze the inner conflicts of the creator Michelangelo through psychoanalysis.
So, my friend later asked me, Xiaofeng, do you have this feeling when you interpret the image? It's that you don't make it clear, you don't feel well. I pondered later, it is true, you don't say it, there is no answer, as if you feel uncomfortable. This, of course, provides a new perspective on image interpretation, which is actually not to be over-interpreted or over-interpreted. The reason why you feel excessive is because you think that what you are mentioning is beyond your own comprehension. But from the point of view of the researcher himself, such as Freud, who has a problem that he wants to deal with, it is not excessive for himself, because he is studying the problem of "hysteria". He saw the movements on the image of Moses as a coherent movement that had something to do with the hysterical response, which was perfectly appropriate, but it was excessive in the eyes of others.
Content Producer: Xiao Feng Program Editor: Hao Han
Collaborative Planning: Zhong Yi Post-production: Lin Xingyu
Visual Design: Naoki Chuang Sound Effects Production: JustPod
Light boat light rain - cloud Pei
Shenren Chang - Wei Shengbao
浮光 (The History) - Jannik
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