Author | Li Yun, Hu Minqi, Zhang Wenjing
Recently, the major realistic theme work "Meritorious Service", which was based on the first batch of 8 "Order of the Republic" winners, was popular and received unanimous praise on major network platforms, and the bullet screen played "tears", "the loveliest people" and "scientists of that era were not easy", and the Douban score was as high as 9.1.
In the 8 unit dramas of "Meritorious Service", "Unsung Hero Yu Min", "Huang Xuhua's Deep Dive", "Sun Jiadong's Heavenly Road", "Tu Youyou's Gift", and "Yuan Longping's Dream" tell the story of scientists.
Are the images of these 5 scientists real? Can their stories empathize with the audience? When the "China Science News" reporter interviewed the scientific research workers, science history and science communication workers around him, it was surprising that most of these "insiders" had not seen "Meritorious Service".
Whether it is the task of "being interviewed" or taking the initiative to watch, after several experts watched the play, some people said that they were "very top-headed", but some people thought it was "too dramatic". Behind this is actually the difference between the general public, scientists and artists on the concepts of life and art, realism and fiction.
<h1 class="pgc-h-arrow-right" data-track="89" > I'd rather watch documentaries by scientists</h1>
Ji Yang (Research Fellow, Institute of Semiconductors, Chinese Academy of Sciences)
China Science Daily: Did you take the initiative to pay attention to the TV series "Meritorious Service"? Do you think that tech workers are the audience for film and television dramas featuring scientists?
Ji Yang: I didn't take the initiative to pay attention, but I watched part of it after being recommended by a friend. I think most tech workers rarely have time to "chase the drama.". Personally, TV dramas are certainly not the best option, and I'd rather watch documentaries by scientists.
China Science Daily: So, do you think documentaries are better suited to tell the stories of scientists than feature films?
Ji Yang: That's not entirely accurate. If this is a purely fictional film about scientists, I am not rejected, at least I know clearly that the film portrays and conveys the image and values of scientists in the minds of the creators. However, the creation of "Meritorious Service" is based on real people, and the real name is used in the play, so I will have requirements for its authenticity, and its plot seems to me to be both realistic and fictional, true and false, easy to mislead the audience, but may play a counterproductive role.
Part of the reason is that we are engaged in scientific research, have more scientific training, and pay more attention to scientific details. Science is truth-seeking, and if we see some obviously fabricated details that are illogical, we will feel embarrassed and easy to play. Documentaries are more realistic and not easy to play.
It is certainly a good thing to spread the story of scientists and promote the spirit of scientists, but it is really difficult to adopt the style of drama film adapted from real people and real events.
"China Science News": Taking the Tu Youyou unit of "Meritorious Service" as an example, the main creator once said that Tu Youyou is a very calm person and does not have too much emotional performance, so he deliberately enlarges this trait. Do you agree with this method of creation? Do you think there are still stereotypes about the portrayal of scientists in today's film and television works?
Ji Yang: Stereotypes have always been very serious. Specific to the details of the play, such as Tu Youyou going home, her husband opened the door for her, found her holding a book at the door to read; forgot to pull out the key on a business trip; bumped into people and did not say a word; Tu Youyou's parents visited their daughter and pounced, etc., very deliberate, unreal.
I never think that the group of scientists has any particularity compared to other groups of people at the personality level, the crowds are normally distributed, and everyone in life is an ordinary person. The achievements of scientists themselves are already great, and there is no need for film and television works to deliberately enlarge some aspect of the scientist's personality and look like a "strange person".
In addition, several of the people in the play are representative figures pushed out by the national science project, and I can understand that the creators want to visualize the big science project and visualize it to a certain character. But Tu Youyou's story creation gives me the feeling that it portrays a very upright scientist who does not deal with people, overcomes the unfavorable factors of the external environment, and makes major scientific research achievements, which is different from the narrative of the history of science that I know, so there is always a sense of weirdness.
<h1 class="pgc-h-arrow-right" data-track="88" > Xu Chi's Chen Jingrun, the touching thing is ordinary and real</h1>
WANG Yangzong (Professor, School of Humanities, University of Chinese Academy of Sciences, Director of The Research Center for History, Chinese Academy of Sciences)
China Science Daily: As a historian, do you usually read literary works about scientists? Do you watch documentary works (documentaries, memoirs, biographies)? Why?
Wang Yangzong: I used to watch it a lot. It began with a penchant for scientific reportage, but in recent years it has become less and less visible. When I was in college, I read all kinds of literary works, but now I almost only read documentary literature.
For only documentary literature, including documentary literature about science and scientists, is closer to the real history and history of science, especially the history and history of science in modern and contemporary times. This may be an occupational disease.
At the same time, I was very dissatisfied with some documentary literature. Some works under the banner of "documentary" are not lacking in fiction, and even full of fictional plots, using the so-called "truth of art" to fool readers. Not only literary works, paintings and other works of art also fictionalize historical stories and plots. For example, if there is an oil painting "Spring of Science", the historical scene that is fabricated is not at all, but it is collected into historical works, as a witness to an important historical event, and has become a "famous painting". In fact, this is not enough. "Documentary" is untrue, and no matter how good the "literary" and "artistic" techniques are, they do not belong to documentary literature or documentary art. It is not worthy of the name, which cannot but be exquisite.
China Science Daily: How much do you think the image of scientists created in "Meritorious Service" is to the degree of reduction of those scientists in the early days of the founding of New China? How do you evaluate the image of scientists that have been shaped in our literature in recent decades?
Wang Yangzong: I can feel that the editors and creators of "Meritorious Service" have made great efforts, especially there are some historical details that can be reproduced in the play, which is not easy. But the overall degree of reduction is not particularly good. This involves a series of questions such as how to understand that generation of scientists, the circumstances of their time, their efforts and struggles, their mental outlook, and an understanding of their scientific achievements.
Since the reform and opening up, China's documentary literature, including biographical literature, has produced many very good works. Only biographies of scientists are still creating the image of some scientists who are false and empty at an inopportune time.
In order to write about Chen Jingrun, Xu Chi went deep into scientific research institutions to understand the character environment to understand Chen Jingrun, and "Goldbach Conjecture" is not a symbolic science hero, but a story of struggle and success of a mathematician on the fringes of society. Xu Chi's Chen Jingrun is touching in that it is ordinary and real, and is an example that ordinary people can learn and work hard.
However, some authors add fuel to the fire and invent typical plots to express the typical personality and spiritual outlook of scientists. This is a big taboo in documentary works.
In 2017, Mr. Yang Zhenning severely criticized the issue of domestic scientist biographies fabricated at the inauguration ceremony of the Department of History of Science at Tsinghua University. Mr. Yang said: "I hope that in the near future, such as five or ten years later, the situation will change and everyone will know that the way biographical literature is written is wrong and undesirable." ”
However, the problem of fabricating scientific documentary literary works in China continues. On the one hand, the biographies of scientists written by experts and scholars are not readable, and on the other hand, the documentary works such as scientist biographies written by writers are readable but have problems with credibility. I am afraid that this situation will continue.
"China Science Daily": One of the respondents in Zhihu believes that the current propaganda always emphasizes that meritorious scientists are willing to keep poor, but in fact, at that time, the state also gave them the best treatment, which was "treated by the state soldiers". He cited the "Report on the Question of Giving Care to Senior Cadres and Senior Intellectuals in Beijing in the Supply of Non-staple Food" (1960) during the "three-year period of natural disasters", saying that scientists were correspondingly "enjoying ministerial and vice-ministerial treatment" or "enjoying departmental and bureau-level treatment". Is his "proof" reliable?
Wang Yangzong: I am afraid that this answerer is not careful enough. The "senior intellectuals" involved in the 1960 document were only senior high-level experts, equivalent to first-, second- and third-level professors, and among the scientific and technological workers involved in the development of the "two bombs and one satellite," scientists of this level were only a very small minority. That little bit of "preferential treatment" is nothing more than freedom from hunger. The so-called "treating the country's soldiers" is even more taken for granted.
In the era of the development of the "two bombs and one satellite," it was also a time when the policy on the intellectual issue was relatively "left" in implementation. Taking Qian Sanqiang as an example, he is a first-level researcher (originally a special-level researcher, and later the state cancelled the special level and changed it to a first-level) and a deputy director of the second machine department, but he was not trusted in the second machine department and was under tremendous mental pressure. The successful development of the atomic bomb was also the time when he was excluded from the list of those who celebrated the merits.
As for the vast majority of ordinary scientific researchers, including many scientists who have made key contributions, their qualifications are not high, and their salaries are not high, how can they expect any special treatment? They are all struggling silently under very difficult conditions, without complaint or regret, and who has the conditions to calculate personal gains and losses?
In recent years, the national defense scientific research system has compiled and published many memories and interviews of participants in the development of the "two bombs and one satellite." Many examples are present, and everyone can see what kind of working conditions and living conditions were at that time.
<h1 class="pgc-h-arrow-right" data-track="87" > don't have to worry about the audience taking the specifics seriously</h1>
Galaxy (Writer, Author of "The Biography of Guo Guangcan")
"China Science Daily": The slogan of "Meritorious Service" is a major reality-themed TV series based on the first 8 "Order of the Republic" winners as character archetypes, how do we understand the type of TV series with character archetypes, whether they are fictional or non-fictional?
Galaxy: Although I went to see "Meritorious Service" with missions (to be interviewed) and stereotypes (after hearing some bad reviews), I watched a few episodes and was actually "circled". Decided to have time to look at it in detail and carefully. I still recognize this way of creating.
First of all, we need a basic understanding, that is, there are two kinds of literary and artistic works that depict scientists, one is documentary works, and the other is fictional works that reshape characters and undergo literary processing—yes, fictional works, fictional works based on facts.
The well-known Goldbach Conjecture is a documentary work (reportage); if it is made into film and television, it is a so-called documentary. For example, the Oscar-winning "Beautiful Mind" belongs to the re-creation of literary and artistic works, which have a large number of fictional elements; if such works appear in the form of words, they belong to the works of fiction. The two are very different.
For example, "China on the Tip of the Tongue", even if it is filmed in literature and art, is also a documentary work, after all, those chefs and eaters are not played by actors; and some pseudo-realistic works, even if they look at life again, are also fictional works (characters are played by actors).
China Science News: Most of the audience is outside the creative circle, outside the science circle, if they, especially the teenagers, take the things in the story as the real thing, as history, will it be misleading?
Galaxy: Worried about the young audience taking some specific details seriously, I think it is not necessary.
Tell them that some of them are artistic processing, and they don't even have to be deliberately emphasized repeatedly. In fact, our understanding of many people and things is often based on our understanding of literary and artistic works.
The classic "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" has been read by many young readers or read sooner or later, but in fact, Cao Cao, Guan Yu, Sun Quan and the like are all artistic images. To put it more extremely, a lot of things other than names are fake. Are we worried about this again?
We read "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" not to learn history, but to feel the magnificence of history, and perhaps this will stimulate interest in historical research. Similarly, literary works about scientists and scientific events play a similar role: we can see the efforts and research of researchers, we can see how science develops step by step, and perhaps it will stimulate the interest of young people in science.
Literary and artistic works are based on facts, but they are not facts after all.
"China Science News": The audience's evaluation of Tu Youyou, played by Zhou Xun, is relatively divergent, on the one hand, it is a discussion about acting skills, on the other hand, it is about the character character shown in the play, and some people think that Tu Youyou's personality in the play is "very unpleasant". None of us understand the real Tu Youyou, like or not like there is no way to evaluate. But in this light, is there a stereotype of scientists in the public mind? If the scientists represented in the work do not match their own cognition, they will not accept it very well?
Galaxy: The public doesn't just have stereotypes about scientists, or "famous scientists with fame and contributions," but there's also a very important factor that is caused by "too close."
If literary and artistic works portray ancient or foreign scientists, far from the audience's life, everyone will accept it; and the people who live around us, those who are still alive or have just passed away, are not so easy for the audience to identify. This is normal.
In fictional works, sometimes in order to make the character image distinct, it is very normal to typically display some character characteristics, and this kind of artistic creation is to make the characters more plump and vivid. It's just that chinese culture has a tradition of "keeping secrets for His Holiness, for relatives, and for sages", so some slightly exaggerated creations will make the audience feel uncomfortable.
<h1 class="pgc-h-arrow-right" data-track="86" > commenting on the truth or not is a big problem in itself</h1>
Rao Shuguang (President of China Film Critics Association)
"China Science News": Why are there relatively few film and television works with scientists as the protagonists?
Rao Shuguang: In the field of mass communication, the display of the group of scientists is relatively low, and the vast number of ordinary people are relatively unfamiliar with themselves. The field of science is very specialized, and the personal life of scientists is mostly devoid of storytelling and dramatic conflicts, which is a very difficult problem for artistic creation.
In the audience's feedback on "Meritorious Service", "Noh Wen Neng Wu Li Yannian" is the highest evaluation, objectively speaking, the dramatic conflict of the war story itself is very strong, it is easier to attract the audience.
If you focus on the biographical films of scientists, biopics are a very difficult genre in foreign markets, and in the film and television circle, they are recognized as having acted in biopics to be a great actor, which shows that it is extremely difficult for performers.
China Science Daily: In our interview, scientific and technological workers raised some questions about the authenticity of the plot of the TV series. In your opinion, how do film and television works balance the relationship between historical truth and artistic creation?
Rao Shuguang: "Meritorious Service" is not a documentary first, it is closer to a biopic, which belongs to a kind of drama film. There are real people as prototypes, and they have been artistically processed and created. Biopic creation is like dancing in shackles, which is a very difficult genre in film and television creation.
Authenticity is an eternal topic in this type of work. Tech workers are professional in their field, and they have their own set of standards for authenticity. But the premise is that this is a work of art, which needs to have the appropriate dramatic tension and aesthetic taste, and cannot completely take the truth of life and the truth of history to require the creation of characters.
The plot of film and television drama works cannot be equated with the main history painting. If the comments are true or untrue, this is a big problem in itself, indicating that the critics are not able to understand the basic logic and laws of artistic creation. If film and television drama works only pay attention to reality, it becomes a completely unrelated matter of art.
"A Beautiful Mind", "Imitation Game", "TheOry of Everything", "The King's Speech", "Churchill"... Are these high-quality biopics recognized by the audience because they emphasize the authenticity and correctness of the characters and events? Not.
In the end, the level of artistic value of film and television drama works is measured by whether the creator has successfully shaped the character image, in line with the basic facts, in line with the spiritual temperament of the character, can truly infect the audience, impress the audience, let the audience enter the narrative scene of the creator, and identify with their artistic expression and artistic value concept, which is the foundation of artistic creation.
"China Science News": In addition to scientific and technological workers, ordinary audiences also put forward opinions on some plot portrayals in "Meritorious Service", such as Yuan Longping's unit, the romanticized presentation of imagery is too much, making people feel deliberate, and there is Also Tu Youyou unit, which lacks logical rationality in some behaviors to highlight the personality of the characters, so that some audiences can play. What kind of scientist image do you think is more in line with the aesthetics of today's audience, and how do creators shape such a scientist image?
Rao Shuguang: In general, the creators of "Meritorious Service" still put a lot of effort into making the image of the scientist move and live on the screen as much as possible, which can be accepted by more audiences and empathize. Such efforts exist. For individuals, the feeling of watching dramas is always different, and there are different opinions and opinions, which is a very normal phenomenon in the process of artistic creation and dissemination.
Narrative can have artistic processing, but human nature should be real, especially when presenting the image of a hero. I believe that the audience would like to see the image of a scientist who can show the true human nature, their inner pain, struggle, grievance, reluctance, and even regret, all kinds of complex emotions, can bring the audience more resonance and touch.
Looking at the world, the most critical creative method for some successful character biopics is to study the characters for a long time and grasp the most core spiritual temperament of the characters. As far as I know, some big-name actors abroad have been preparing for several years in order to shoot a biographical film. For example, Daniel Day-Lewis, the only actor in Oscar history who has won the film emperor three times, spent several years fully immersed in his dialogue with the characters in order to play Lincoln, making the artistic completion very high.
After all, the creation time of "Meritorious Service" is still limited, leaving the creators with limited opportunities to seriously experience life and study the characters in depth. Therefore, I think this kind of work really needs to give artists more time and space to create.
<h1 class="pgc-h-arrow-right" data-track="69" > instead of pursuing "authenticity", it is better to pursue "richness"</h1>
Yilin Hu (Associate Professor, Department of History of Science, Tsinghua University)
China Science Daily: Have you watched the TV series "Meritorious Service" recently? As a historian of science, do you usually pay attention to the literary and artistic works of scientists?
Hu Yilin: I haven't seen "Meritorious Service". I'm ashamed to say that I rarely read literary and artistic works. If I need information about a scientist, I usually look at biographies or other studies in the history of science, such as Isaacson's Biography of Albert Einstein, which is very well written.
My major is mainly in the history of Western science and technology, and in general, the most beginner understanding of a scientist is Wikipedia, which is the quickest entry. This is followed by well-known biographies or dictionaries of scientists in the field of scientific history, as well as searching for relevant articles in journals such as the history of science such as ISIS.
"China Science News": Compared with the study of the history of science, literary and artistic works will carry out artistic processing when shaping the image of scientists, and there are many factors such as the limitations of creators, resulting in the image of scientists presented is only partially true, what do you think?
Hu Yilin: Not to mention literary and artistic works, even if they are serious scientific history research, oral history research, and biographical writing, they will encounter various reasons such as the reservations of the parties and the limited understanding of the creators, which will lead to incomplete portrayal.
Whether it is literary and artistic creation, historical research, court judgments or even natural science research, human understanding is limited, it is impossible to achieve absolute truth, and no one can grasp the standard of absolute truth. So, in fact, what we are pursuing is not so much "authenticity" as "richness.".
In court, it is said that "isolated evidence is not established", you claim, you must have evidence, but also have corroborative evidence, circumstantial evidence, coupled with logical reconstruction and intention speculation, forming a chain of evidence, which makes people feel more reliable. This is "richness", and the richer the evidence, the more valid the claim.
Of course, we also require that the exploration of each clue is relatively independent, for example, although there is a lot of evidence, but it is provided by the same person, it is actually not rich enough. It is necessary to cut from different angles and depict multiple aspects, so that it is rich and full in terms of the shaping of the character image.
Returning to the question of shaping the image of scientists, it must first be made clear that there is no standard, true image of scientists. There are thousands of scientists, and each scientist is an independent individual, with a very different personality and pursuit. Tu Youyou is a scientist, chen Jingrun is also a scientist, can not be put into a simple template. What's more, even if it is the same person, he often has many faces in life and work.
Our image of scientists today is indeed more advanced, or rather fuller, than it was a few decades ago. Because we are no longer satisfied with a facial narrative method, we apply diverse people to a number of standard models to portray. In addition, this richness is also reflected in the fact that we can allow richer ways of interpreting to coexist, rather than saying that only this interpretation is allowed for one person, and everything else is a misreading.
"China Science News": What kind of impact will the enrichment of the image of scientists have on the public's understanding of scientists? Do you think that film and television dramas are a good way to spread the spirit of science?
Hu Yilin: Under a monotonous, stereotyped understanding, science seems to become a religion, and scientists become saints, noble, perfect, correct, but lacking in humanity. We want to let science go down the altar and really go to the masses. After the image of scientists is enriched, scientists are still noble, but no longer unattainable. They can be like "good kids in the neighborhood", to be a role model that people talk about, and always live by our side.
In my opinion, the best channel for disseminating the spirit of science is, of course, primary and secondary education. The second is extracurricular reading at the primary and secondary school level, and the others are additional supplements and enrichments. If you do not establish a good concept in reading and studying, it is difficult to remedy it by relying on film and television dramas. Of course, some film and television dramas may play a role by touching parents and encouraging parents to pay attention to their children's scientific and cultural literacy.