【Interview with new book】
Editor's Note
The Grand Canal, which began to be excavated in the Sui Dynasty, has a history of more than 2,500 years. It can be said that the Grand Canal is an oriental miracle that has attracted worldwide attention and is a precious heritage left to us by our ancestors. In a sense, it is not only a river, but also a cultural corridor involving transportation, water conservancy, geography, history and ecology. To this day, the Grand Canal is still inseparable from the people's livelihood and national transportation. The Grand Canal, which flows on the land of China, is the main artery for promoting national unity and national integration. In the hearts of Poets of the Tang, Song, Yuan, Ming, and Qing Dynasties such as Bai Juyi, Ouyang Xiu, meng Haoran, the Grand Canal is another river of poetry. The newly published "Grand Canal Drifting to the Forbidden City", "Three Hundred Ancient Poems of the Grand Canal", and "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal" invariably focus on the Grand Canal, which stretches for more than 3,000 kilometers. This issue of Guangming Yue Reading takes the Grand Canal as the theme, and the authors and scholars of the dialogue interpret the ancient and modern lifeline of this long and ancient.
"The Grand Canal Drifts to the Forbidden City"
Shan Jixiang
China Encyclopedia Press
Living heritage
Shan Jixiang is the president of the Chinese Cultural Relics Society and the president of the Palace Museum
Guangming Yue Reading: As we all know, you have been the "gatekeeper" of the Forbidden City for many years. You know every brick and tile in the Forbidden City. On the occasion of the 600th anniversary of the forbidden city, you published the book "The Grand Canal Drifts to the Forbidden City". Why do you say that "the Forbidden City was floating on the Grand Canal"?
Shan Jixiang: For more than 2,000 years, the Grand Canal has bred the culture of cities along the coast with its powerful function of communicating between the north and the south and transporting goods. It is of particular significance for the destination city of Beijing and the Forbidden City. Many of the building materials used to build the Forbidden City were transported to Beijing via canals. In addition, a large number of southern craftsmen participated in the construction of the Forbidden City, such as the craftsmen Cai Xin and Lu Xiang who presided over the preparation, as well as The Cuo Xiang who presided over the project after the official start of construction, all of whom were from Jiangsu. After its completion, the treasures, grain, materials, talents, and even cultural entertainment and aesthetic tastes of the south were continuously imported into the capital from the rich south along the canal.
Traditional Chinese architecture is mainly based on rammed earth walls, masonry walls and wooden structures, so bricks and wood are used in a very large amount. According to the Tiangong Kaiwu Tao Yuan, most of the bricks used in the construction of the Forbidden City came from Linqing, Shandong. Linqing is one of the hubs of canal shipping after the Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal was dug, the transportation is convenient, and the local soil is especially suitable for brick making, at that time, the Linqing brick kilns were distributed along the canal, stretching for more than 30 kilometers.
There is a rumor that "the land of the Forbidden City is made of gold bricks". Today, when we walk into the Forbidden City, we can see that the laid "golden bricks" are still intact. Tracing the "road of the golden bricks" cannot but remind people of the Grand Canal, which has been flowing silently on the land of China for more than 2,500 years. These "golden bricks" produced in Suzhou, Songjiang and other places at that time, which were firm in texture and sound like metal, "drifted north" along the Grand Canal to the Forbidden City.
In addition to masonry and wood, there are countless treasures in the south that have been "drifting north" to the capital through the Grand Canal. From fragrant rice and anchovies to Kun Cavity and Su embroidery, to the calligraphy and painting works of the Wumen School, Su-style Huanghuali furniture, from food, clothing, housing and transportation to cultural entertainment, material and intangible cultural creativity, along the Grand Canal to the Forbidden City. That's why I used to say that the Forbidden City was floating on the Grand Canal.
Picture of the old bridge on the canal
Guangming Yue Reading: You have been running for the protection of the Grand Canal and applying for heritage for several years. Why do you insist that you should continue to do the "living" cultural heritage protection of the Grand Canal?
Shan Jixiang: In the preface to "The Grand Canal Drifts to the Forbidden City", I introduced the causes and consequences of the hybrid rice fields being listed in the national key cultural relics protection units. Academician Yuan Longping's contributions to mankind and to the Chinese nation are obvious to all. He solved our food problem. But a philosopher once said that when people are not full, they have only one trouble; when they have eaten enough, they will have countless troubles. What is the solution to the complex problems of all aspects of life? I think it's culture. Through the successful inclusion of hybrid rice paddies in conservation projects, we have learned important lessons not only to protect "static" cultural heritage, but also to pay attention to those that are "alive".
The Grand Canal is a linear cultural heritage, but it is by no means an isolated cultural phenomenon. At the beginning of the protection action, we only paid attention to the Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal and listed it as a national key cultural relics protection unit. At the beginning of the declaration of world cultural heritage, the Sui and Tang Grand Canals were also included. The starting point of the Sui and Tang Grand Canal is Luoyang, and the starting point of the Silk Road, which is declared a world cultural heritage, is also Luoyang, thus linking the Silk Road and the Grand Canal at the node of Luoyang. Later, with the deepening of understanding, the Zhejiang East Canal was included in the scope of the declaration of world cultural heritage, and Shaoxing, Ningbo and other cities also joined the cities along the canal, which in turn linked the Grand Canal with the Maritime Silk Road. As a result, these cultural heritage resources have formed a huge channel of ethnic migration, commodity trade and cultural exchanges that run through the east and west of China, the desert oasis Silk Road in the west, and the Maritime Silk Road in the east, and there is today's re-laid out linear and networked distribution of cultural heritage resources. Such an imposing pattern of cultural heritage protection is unprecedented in the world. In this way, combined with the practical thinking of cultural heritage protection, our concept of cultural heritage protection has gradually progressed, which has also made the connotation of the protection of the Grand Canal more profound and the extension of protection more abundant.
Although the Grand Canal still has an important transportation function and is still an important part of socio-economic life in the Jiangnan region, from a broader perspective, the most important significance of the Grand Canal is its cultural significance. This artificial river that runs through the land of China has nurtured the people on both sides of the strait and is the common spiritual home of hundreds of millions of people.
If the Great Wall is the strong backbone of the Chinese nation, the Grand Canal is the blood of our nation. On both sides of this apostrophe of the word "ren", there is the ancient land silk road on the west side and the maritime Silk Road on the east side, like a ribbon around the waist. It is precisely such a "person" with a strong backbone, a smooth bloodline, and open exchanges that vividly embodies the civilizational history of the progress and development, exchanges and dialogues of the Chinese nation.
Guangming Yue Reading: What changes has the protection of the Grand Canal brought to the cause of Cultural Heritage in China by protecting and declaring a world cultural heritage?
Shan Jixiang: In 2014, China's Grand Canal project was inscribed on the World Cultural Heritage List. The success of the Grand Canal application has played an important role in the protection of the cultural heritage of the Grand Canal. Nowadays, people's understanding of the cultural heritage of the Grand Canal has undergone earth-shaking changes, and many cities along the Grand Canal have successively regarded the canal heritage as a valuable cultural resource to be studied, protected and utilized. The cities on both sides of the canal are economically active and have profound cultural heritage, which is an urban community worth cherishing by the Chinese nation, and I am personally full of confidence in the future of the cultural heritage of the Grand Canal.
The Grand Canal is a huge linear cultural heritage involving thousands of families and a vast area. Therefore, the protection concept of the Grand Canal is to attach importance to the participation of the whole people, and it should be a cultural undertaking that has been passed down from generation to generation and with public participation. Just when the protection of the Grand Canal and the declaration of world cultural heritage began, the State Council issued the Notice on Strengthening the Protection of Cultural Heritage, and established the "Chinese Cultural Heritage Day" (later changed to "Cultural and Natural Heritage Day"), creating a good atmosphere for cultural heritage protection and a social environment with wide participation of the general public. In terms of the protection concept and scope of the Grand Canal, we have gradually formed a new understanding, realizing from a higher level that the Grand Canal is a "cultural landscape" formed by the interaction of cultural elements and natural elements, a "living and flowing cultural heritage" composed of static and dynamic, and a "linear cultural heritage" composed of points, lines and surfaces. From the depths of their minds, everyone reached a consensus on the "cultural heritage corridor" of the Grand Canal, which is composed of ancient sites, modern historical sites and contemporary heritage, and the "cultural space" formed by the combination of material and intangible elements.
Guangming Yueyue: After many years of practice in the protection of the Grand Canal, what goals do you think should be achieved in the protection of cultural heritage?
Shan Jixiang: The protection of cultural heritage not only requires us to be conscientious and conscientious, stubbornly guarded, and repeatedly defeated, but also requires us to have a greater pursuit. What kind of pursuit? First, we must make every movable and immovable cultural heritage of the object of our protection dignified; second, the protection of cultural heritage should become a positive force for promoting economic and social development; third, the results of cultural heritage protection should benefit the broad masses of the people.
No country in the world has declared the World Cultural Heritage every year, let alone any country that has successfully declared it every year, and China has achieved success in this regard, becoming a country with the most world heritage sites worthy of the name. We need to calmly consider the continuous action after the successful declaration of each world cultural heritage, and the successful declaration of world cultural heritage is not the ultimate goal, but the beginning of more difficult conservation actions.
The Tang and Song Empires and the Canals
Quan Hansheng
Chongqing Publishing House
The testimony of civilization
Zhu Yuqi is a professor at the Department of History at Peking University
Guangming Yue Reading: "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal" by Quan Hansheng, an expert in Chinese economic history, has been praised by scholars as "a work that has not been published in ancient times". What do you know about the achievements of Quan HanSheng?
Zhu Yuqi: In 1943, during the War of Resistance Against Japanese Aggression, Li Zhuang completed the writing of "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal". The following year, the book was published in the wartime companion capital. Another year, the economic historian Yang Liansheng wrote a book review at Harvard on the other side of the ocean, praising this "elaborately compiled" masterpiece as the solid cornerstone of China's economic history edifice.
Quan Hansheng was an important Chinese socio-economic historian of the 20th century, an important author of the "Food And Half-Monthly" during his early years of study at Peking University, and came to prominence by publishing articles on the study of economic activities in the Song Dynasty, and the monograph "History of the Chinese Guild System" was recommended for publication by Tao Xisheng, the founder of the "Food And Goods School". After that, he spent his whole life wandering in the field of Chinese economic history research from the Middle Ages to the Ming and Qing dynasties, and modern times.
Guangming Yue Reading: After more than half a century, what is the significance of the republishment of the simplified Chinese version of "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal"?
Zhu Yuqi: "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal" takes the discussion of the Grand Canal's transportation in the Tang and Song Dynasties as the main line, and is regarded as a representative work of the ancient economic history of the canal, which is naturally its true color. However, in the 21st century, more than 70 years later, when China's Grand Canal was inscribed on the World Cultural Heritage List, we look back on this work, and its significance is not only that. On the occasion of the publication of the simplified chinese version of "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal", re-reading the foundation work of this research on canal history, you can feel the temperature of Chinese history between the lines.
It is a history of political evolution that embodies the ultimate concern for the community of common destiny of ancient China. The author begins the retrospective of the history of China's canals with the dependence of human production on water conservancy, and attributes the formation of the Grand Canal to the inevitable product of the emergence of the Great Unified Empire in the Middle Ages. Unlike the situation of the first great unification in Chinese history in the Qin and Han Empires in the ancient period, the second great unification situation that occurred in the Sui, Tang and Northern Song dynasties more than 400 years later, the phenomenon of separating the military and political center from the north and south of the economic center occurred, and the canal that communicated the transportation between the north and the south naturally came into being. The significance of the excavation of the North-South Canal in the Sui Dynasty for the great unified empire, in the author's pen, far exceeds the function of the Sui Dynasty Emperor Youxing Entertainment, but the artery of the rise and fall of the country.
The author looks at the national fortune from the opening and stagnation of the Tang and Song dynasties for more than 600 years, and the chapters in the book are titled with the words "extreme prosperity", "middle decline", "ZTE", "collapse" and "collapse" of the Northern Song Dynasty, and the various historical facts discussed in the main text convey the following information: "The canal is to the Tang and Song Empires, just like the arteries to the body, its smoothness and stagnation are enough to affect the rise and fall of the national fortune." "The north-south communication between Chinese civilization is the most important responsibility of the Grand Canal to build a community with a shared future for mankind, which is highlighted in this book.
Guangming Yue Reading: In what ways does the Grand Canal embody the role of the "main artery"?
Zhu Yuqi: The canals of the Sui and Tang dynasties communicated with the Yellow River in Jianghuai, and the difficulties such as the high water level and the dry abundance and collapse of the natural river channels made the transportation of thousands of miles not smooth. The book records the various means of caoyun reform in the Tang and Song dynasties, such as "turning the general law", "turning the general warehouse", "transferring light goods to the market", "miscellaneous transport", "taking salt profit as the maid", "ten ships as the guideline", "cheap shipbuilding", etc., which have been implemented successively on this thousand-mile lifeline, and have been inherited in the Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal in the Yuan, Ming, and Qing dynasties.
Looking at the military war at the time of the Tang and Song dynasties from the occurrence of Caoyun, it is also unique. Here, the author affirms the role of Zhang Tour, who stubbornly guarded Suiyang during the Anshi Rebellion, to "cover the River huai", and also analyzes the important reason for the sharp decline of the national power caused by the separation of the feudal towns, which gives a new perspective to the economic level by taking the occurrence of the canal as an opportunity. Therefore, Yang Liansheng's book review also specifically mentions the vividness of the book's "integration of economic history with political history and military history" and "the overall situation in sight".
Guangming Yue Reading: Where is the academic value of the book "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal"?
Zhu Yuqi: Quan Hansheng provides a methodology for canal research in the book, which sets a benchmark for the study of canal history in previous dynasties. Before the arrival of industrial civilization, the Grand Canal was undoubtedly the most important water conservancy project to promote the integration of the north and south of Chinese culture. Even if, as the author says at the end of the book, "after the fall of the Song Dynasty, most of the canals that run through the north and south of the Yuan capital Yanjing are no longer the home of the Sui Xiu Canal", this does not mean that the significance of this book is limited to the Tang and Song Dynasties. Just as the Great Wall ceased to coincide in the Warring States, the Qin and Han Dynasties, and the Ming Dynasty, but all had the function of resisting the invasion of the north, the diversion of the canal did not change the nature of the exchange between the north and the south. The research method of "The Tang and Song Empire and the Canal" is still valid for the observation of canal civilization in the later Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal period. The author's methodological contribution in this work of economic history, in addition to the observation of the theory of social and economic history, is to pay attention to the analysis of historical materials, which is undoubtedly derived from the academic influence of Fu Sinian's "historiography is historiography".
Therefore, at the beginning of the Grand Canal running on the land of China, the source of the canal, Quan Hansheng's "Tang and Song Empire and the Canal" did lay an important foundation for the canal research of later generations to integrate the north and the south in China and establish a community of destiny. Even today, this historical responsibility of the Grand Canal civilization will continue to be carried forward.
"Three Hundred Ancient Poems of the Grand Canal"
Cheng Zhangcan, editor-in-chief of He Zhaofeng
Jiangsu Phoenix Literature and Art Publishing House
Flowing poetry
Cheng Zhangcan is a professor at the College of Literature of Nanjing University
Lecturer at the College of Liberal Arts, Nanjing University
Guangming Yue Reading: The Grand Canal with a history of 2,500 years and running through the north and south of China is well known to the world. But your two newly published "Three Hundred Ancient Poems of the Grand Canal" draw another form of the Grand Canal for the reader from another perspective. What is the special significance of the Grand Canal in your two minds?
Cheng Zhangcan and He Zhaofeng: As we all know, the Grand Canal is an oriental miracle that has attracted worldwide attention. But few people notice that the Grand Canal actually has two forms of existence, and it can even be said that there are two Grand Canals at the same time.
One is the Grand Canal flowing on the land of China, which includes three parts: the Beijing-Hangzhou Grand Canal, the Sui-Tang Grand Canal and the Zhejiang East Canal, flowing through eight provinces and cities such as Zhejiang, Jiangsu and Anhui, and running through the five major river systems such as the Qiantang River, the Yangtze River, the Huai River, the Yellow River and the Haihe River. This Grand Canal, which stretches for thousands of kilometers, is a great project creation of ancient Chinese, connecting China's Cultural Regions such as Beijing-Tianjin, Yanzhao, Qilu, Zhongyuan, Huaiyang, Wuyue, etc., and is the main artery for promoting national unity and national integration. To this day, it is still inseparable from the fortunes of the people's livelihood and the country, a geographical wonder of the land of China, and "a magnificent poem written on the land of China".
The other is the Grand Canal flowing in ancient Chinese poetry, through the Sui, Tang, Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing, in the past 1,000 years, in the hands of Zhang Ruoxu, Wang Wei, Bai Juyi, Li Shangyin, Liu Yong, Ouyang Xiu, Yang Wanli, Wen Tianxiang, Gao Qi, Zhu Yizun, Gong Zizhen and other famous poets and lyricists, flowing out of the harmony of the music and harmony, but also out of the colorful and endless eternal. This is a grand canal in the heart of Chinese.
Bright Reading: What is the difference between the Grand Canal on the ground and the Grand Canal in the heart? And what is the connection?
Cheng Zhangcan and He Zhaofeng: The Grand Canal on the ground and the Grand Canal in the heart are of course different: the former is physical and material, the latter is virtual and documentary; the former flows on the earth, the latter flows in words; the former is a flowing road mixed with earth, stone, water and grass, and the latter is a river of texts constructed by words and chapters; the former preserves historical sites and cultural relics, and the latter records the figures, sounds, and feelings of the ancients. As for the connection, it can be said that the Grand Canal in the heart is the reflection of the Grand Canal on the ground, and the two Grand Canals are intertwined with each other and reflect each other, and in the non-stop flow of day and night, the accumulation has become an important symbol of Chinese civilization.
Guangming Yue Reading: What was the original intention of compiling the "Three Hundred Ancient Poems of the Grand Canal"?
Cheng Zhangcan and He Zhaofeng: Although this canal of ancient poetry embodies the wisdom of countless famous masters, it is rarely fixed in material form, and it is rarely collected, combed and sorted out systematically. We compiled the "Three Hundred Ancient Poems of the Grand Canal" to present this text of the Grand Canal in the form of a book. To this end, we have selected 300 ancient poems from 227 poets chanting the Grand Canal from the collection of poems and other collections of poems of the past, plus brief annotations and unapologetic commentaries, and published with exquisite illustrations.
This anthology of ancient poems of the Grand Canal is the fusion of the Grand Canal on the ground and the Grand Canal in the heart, the connection between the ancients and the present, and the intersection of the two Grand Canals on the road of classicization.
Guangming Yue Reading: In 2500 years, how did poets understand the Grand Canal?
Cheng Zhangcan and He Zhaofeng: In the face of the long historical river of the Grand Canal, poets are observers and feelrs; they are commentators and recorders. Their feelings are rich, and their perspectives are diverse.
In the eyes of the poet, the Grand Canal is a river of time. The time involved in the Grand Canal has both a prominent length and a clear stage. In terms of length, it lasts for more than 2500 years, dating back to the Spring and Autumn Period when Wu Wangfuqiao excavated the Han ditch. In terms of stages, the history of the Grand Canal is mainly divided into three phases: the Spring and Autumn Period of the Embryonic Grass Creation, the Sui Dynasty Period when the scale was first seen, and the Yuan Dynasty period when the system was formed. The more later, the stronger the network connection capability of the Grand Canal, the wider the radiation range.
In the eyes of the poet, the Grand Canal is a river of space. The Grand Canal is divided into several sections from south to north, connecting many ancient capital cities, famous mountains and rivers along the line, and communicating with many different cultural areas. Ancient poems are all involved, and some are uneven. Connecting these places written in ancient poems is strung together into a poetic path of the Grand Canal. The fate of many historical and cultural cities is closely related to the Grand Canal. It can even be said that some famous cities were spawned by the Grand Canal. Wang Wensheng said that the Grand Canal is the river of "great luck" of these famous cities.
In the eyes of the poet, the Grand Canal is a river of imagery, flowing with countless images. The imagery is grand and concrete, but it is full of natural or humanistic historical connotations. The large ones such as the Qiantang River, the Yangtze River, the Huai River, the Yellow River, the Beishui, Surabaya, the Jishui, the Haihe River and other water system imagery, the middle such as the ditch pond, the ferry, the bridge, the pavilion, the temple, the Sui Causeway and other spatial imagery, the small one such as Qionghua, Huaibai, Wu Japonica, perch, Guanliu and other wind objects imagery. After the excavation of poetry, these images have become increasingly rich and have become important symbols of scenery and historical culture along the canal. These images, combined with the poets' travels, are reminiscent of the various flows on the Grand Canal: the flow of water, the flow of boats, the flow of things, the flow of people, and even the flow of emotions, the flow of life. The ancient poems of the Grand Canal are lyrical about the flow of history and the flow of feelings. Savoring the imagery in these poems can be combined into a picture of the life of the Grand Canal in one's mind, and you can also better understand the significance of the Grand Canal for people's daily lives. Zhang Ji's "Fengqiao Night Berth" of the Tang Dynasty is a poem that everyone is familiar with: "The moon is falling and the frost is full of frost, and the river maple fishing fire is sad and sleeping." Hanshan Temple outside Gusu City, midnight bell to the passenger ship. "Crying and bells appeal to hearing, frost moons, river maples and fishing fires appeal to vision, these beautiful images rich in emotion, can only be seen in combination with the background of the Grand Canal, only in the dynamic night boats. The city is getting farther away, the mountain temple is approaching, the sound in the silence, the switch between time and space, and the experience of many people on the Grand Canal night sailing boat trip are all endorsed by this short poem.
Guangming Yue Reading: What kind of historical feelings and cultural spirit are contained in the ancient poems of the Grand Canal?
Cheng Zhangcan and He Zhaofeng: The Grand Canal provides a deep historical background for poetry. For example, during the Southern Song Dynasty, the Grand Canal was the only way for Song and Jin envoys to travel. The poet Lou Key sent an envoy to the Jin Dynasty, writing poems along the way to record what he saw and heard. His "Sizhou Daozhong" poem Yun: "After marching through the Zhou Land, the officials wept the Han people." The Central Plains land has been sinking for a long time, and there is no one to blame. Witnessing the long-lost homeland of the Central Plains and hearing the mournful cry of the remnants remembering their homeland, Lou Key was filled with grief. This trip to the canal, for Lou Key, is to witness the rise and fall of the home country. Almost a hundred years later, the national hero Wen Tianxiang was defeated and taken north, and experienced the tragedy of the fall of the country on the canal road. Because of the lyrics of these poets, the canal became a testimony of its rise and fall. The historical events that took place on the Grand Canal became a historical document of special value.
In short, the ancient poetry of the Grand Canal is a river of poetry. These 300 beautiful poems of poets and poets of past generations are like the 300 pearls that literature dedicated to the Grand Canal. The book attempts to string it into a necklace, draped over the Grand Canal, and presents it to the reader's eyes. Let's follow the classical colorful verses, follow the flowing water of time, which is "like the dead", and walk into the Grand Canal that "flows endlessly through the ages".
(The interviews were all interviewed and sorted out by Liu Bin, a reporter of Guangming Daily)
Guangming Daily (09/12/2020)
Source: Guangming Network - Guangming Daily