<h1 class="pgc-h-arrow-right" data-track="1" > Interview with cross-talk performance artist Chen Yongquan of China Literature and Art Review: Qingmen descendants seek pleasure for the people</h1>
Author: Chen Yongquan Jiang Huiming
The people who cleared the door sought pleasure for the people
——Interview with cross-talk performance artist Chen Yongquan
China Literature and Art Review, No. 9, 2021
Interviewer: Jiang Huiming
Chen Yongquan Profile: Famous cross-talk performance artist. Born in October 1932 in Beijing, he came from a family of xiangsheng, and his grandfather Zhong Ziliang and father Chen Zizhen were representatives of Qingmen xiangsheng. When he was a teenager, he excelled in his studies, and studied with Bai Yunpeng, the founder of the Baipai Jingyun Drum, and was deeply rooted in the true tradition. In 1951, after visiting Tan Boru, he joined the Beijing Xiangsheng Improvement Group and concurrently served as a clerical worker, and the following year he entered the Beijing Qu Art Troupe, and after a long period of stage art practice, he made high achievements in the performance, creation, theory and teaching of xiangsheng, and made great contributions to the compilation and creation of cross-talk dramas and makeup cross-talk. In 1986, he cooperated with Li Jindou to perform the cross-talk "Wusong Fighting Tiger" with many awards and far-reaching influences; he has visited overseas many times and spared no effort to disseminate the excellent traditional Chinese culture. After retiring in 1992, he gradually faded out of the stage, devoted himself to the summary and research of cross-talk theory, and published works such as "The Descendants of Qingmen". In 2016, he was awarded the honorary title of "Lifetime Achievement Quyi Artist of China Federation of Literary and Art Circles".
"Speak, learn, tease, sing"
-- "Qingmen Crosstalk" talks about the past
Jiang Huiming: Teacher Chen, you are recognized as a respected old ancestor in our music and art circles, especially in the cross-talk industry. I remember that there is an inscription by Mr. Liu Bingsen in your living room: "Xiangsheng Family", and you should be the only descendant of Qingmen Xiangsheng at present. Can you tell us what a "clear door crosstalk" is?
Chen Yongquan: If you want to mention this "clear door crosstalk", then the words are long. Let me start with our family. My maternal grandfather was named Zhong Ziliang, a Manchu Zhenglan banner man, whose ancestors had followed Dolgun into the customs and had been an official for generations. My maternal grandfather was the head of the Black Grandfather's Mansion (uncle), the official to the head of the Internal Affairs Office, Liu Pin, Blue Top. My grandfather has been reading poetry since childhood, proficient in musical rhythms, especially good at playing the flute and flute, and there is a special thing, that is, he is very good at cross-talk, stand-up, counterpart, group work, can be competent, and he can also create. Like the traditional cross-talk "Change of Line" that everyone is familiar with, the earliest called "Eight Great Changes", which is the work of my grandfather. Moreover, at that time, the imitation in the paragraph was eight famous artists of the same era as Yi, such as Jin Shaoshan's father Jin Xiushan, etc., and later when people performed, they slowly changed to famous artists who were liked by the audience at that time. Hou Baolin's version has the greatest impact and is also one of his masterpieces. There is also a passage "Selling Five Instruments", written by my grandfather based on his own personal experience, and the background of the story is when the Eight-Power Alliance entered Beijing. The paragraph itself has a strong irony, incorporating a lot of special techniques of crosstalk. This passage was included in the set of books "The Complete Book of Traditional Chinese Cross-Talk", which was also the text I provided to the editor-in-chief at that time.
△ Chen Yongquan's maternal grandfather, Zhong Ziliang, the representative of Qingmen cross-talk
Jiang Huiming: It can be seen from the two works of "Eight Great Changes" and "Selling Five Instruments" that in fact, in your grandfather's time, crosstalk has always been closely related to real life, indicating that art comes from life.
Chen Yongquan: Yeah. Therefore, cross-talk has a mass base, and the audience loves to listen to it! My grandfather was very popular at that time, and it was especially popular, which was also a famous ticket at that time. In fact, he has also created many works, but the two paragraphs that have been circulated to this day and have written records are "Eight Great Changes" and "Selling Five Instruments", which can be regarded as a masterpiece of Yi.
Jiang Huiming: Let's talk about your father, Mr. Chen Zizhen. In the 1920s, Chen Zizhen and Guangquan's cross-talk performances in Shanghai were very popular, and they also became the "ten thousand fans" Li Dezhuo's disciple, and some newspapers often published their news in that year.
Chen Yongquan: My father is not a flag man, he is a Han Chinese, and being able to marry my mother is also related to the words "crosstalk". My father's family was a trader, the family was well-off, and I was versatile, able to pull and sing, and was a well-known Peking Opera ticket at that time. Once when I went to a church meeting, I met my grandfather, and both of them admired each other's character and art very much, and after getting along for a long time, my father began to follow my grandfather to learn cross-talk and partner with each other to participate in various church performances, which was quite popular. My grandfather really liked and favored my father, thinking that he would have a big success in the future, so he betrothed his second daughter, my mother, to my father. After my father became famous, he simply closed the family's business and officially "went to the sea" to say cross-talk. Weng and his son-in-law taught one, one learned, and performed together, but it was not a master-apprentice relationship, because there was no such thing as receiving an apprentice in "Qingmen". This is to go back and say what is "clear door crosstalk".
The development of cross-talk to today has a history of more than one hundred years, less than two hundred years. At present, the more unified theory is that xiangsheng was formed in the Xianfeng and Tongzhi years of the Qing Dynasty, around 1870. There were originally two cross-talks, one called "Qingmen", which was created and performed by those flag children and ticket holders, and initially performed at the church meeting, which belonged to self-amusement, the so-called "spending money to buy face, uncle Gao Le", but did not collect money and did not collect money, and the things on the scene could not be less, which meant that you had to respect me and could not underestimate me; there was also a called "HunMen", which was to perform on the ground, and it was to make a living by saying that cross-talk was a profession. My grandfather and my father belonged to the "Qingmen" group before they went to sea. Why is it called "Qingmen", I understand that it has two meanings: one refers to the Qingmen cross-talk actors do not charge, that is, the ticket holders take the ticket, at most people invite them to eat a meal; the other refers to the Qingmen cross-talk elegant, without "dirty mouth". First, most of these flag children are educated and have identities, and the poems and songs come from the mouth, such as "Eight Cat Diagrams", "Theory of Rich and Poor", "Three Festivals", "Five Elements Poems" and other traditional passages, all of which are from Qingmen; second, when they go to the church meetings in the palace of those mansions, the female relatives of the family sit there and listen, but they can't say anything.
△ Chen Yongquan's father, Chen Zizhen
Jiang Huiming: That is to say, there are still differences between Qingmen Xiangsheng and Hunmen Xiangsheng in terms of theme and style. In addition, we have also noticed that the Qing Dynasty was a period of maturity and stereotyping of many forms of music and art, such as cross-talk, which, in addition to being rooted in the context of traditional Chinese culture, is also closely related to the artistic creation of the children of the flag family.
Chen Yongquan: Yeah. A sentence that we cross-talk actors often say on stage - cross-talk pays attention to the four homework of "speaking, learning, teasing and singing", which actually has a great relationship with the art form of "splitting and singing octagonal drums".
The octagonal drum, as a single-string actor holding an instrument, has eight horns, eight small brass cymbals in the middle, and a tassel underneath, which means the Manchu Eight Flags, Jiangshan Yonggu, Mai Xiu Double Spike, and Wugu Fengdeng. As a form of music art, the octagonal drum was founded by the disciples of the Eight Flags, including single-string brand songs, fork songs, etc., which were quite popular in the Qing Dynasty. To sing an octagonal drum, you must have eight skills - speaking, learning, teasing, singing, blowing, hitting, playing, and pulling. Then the "split singing octagonal drum" is actually based on the different characters in the work, sung by the actors subcontracted to catch the horns, generally divided into positive and ugly roles, and the clowns are the main roles. This form of performance was quite popular in box office performances in the middle of the Qing Dynasty, which was reflected in some novels of the time. The most noteworthy of these is the clown, because only he will do some simple makeup when performing, and often add a lot of gags to the original lyrics, causing the audience to laugh. This is very similar to the comic in today's crosstalk. We in the cross-talk community generally believe that Zhu Shaowen is the first generation of cross-talk actors, because from the time he began to accept apprentices and pass on his art, the cross-talk industry was formed. But Zhu Shaowen is not the first person to say cross-talk, before him there is another Mr. Zhang Sanlu who is good at playing the clown in the octagonal drum, he is older than Zhu Shaowen, but there is no master-apprentice relationship. Later, after Zhang Sanlu did not perform with others alone, he called the program he performed "cross-talk". Of course, the final formation of cross-talk is also related to other art forms such as ventriloquism, but it is more closely related to the octagonal drum. When cross-talk became an independent art form, there was no longer a need for instrument accompaniment, and the performance skills were mainly based on "speaking, learning, teasing, and singing". There is a piece of the children's book work "The Merry Poet", which records in detail the performance form, performance style and content of cross-talk in the early years, and so on.
Combined with these written records and the past stories told me by the previous artists, I think that the "Qingmen Xiangsheng", which was mainly performed by the children of the flag family, was an important part of the early stage of cross-talk. So why didn't you mention this later? The reason is also very simple, first, because of the loss of grain and wages, some flag ticket holders later mostly "went to the sea", so that the "Qingmen" and "Hunmen" xiangsheng were integrated with each other, and there was no mutual communication, after several generations of artists' continuous processing and performance, some of the more excellent Qingmen cross-talk works have become part of the traditional cross-talk that we know today; second, there was a stage in which the Qingmen cross-talk was criticized from the viewpoint of class struggle, believing that the Qingmen actors were some noble children who had enough to eat, drink, and wander, and took the poor and the poor to find happiness. It is equivalent to a stick to death, so slowly no one mentions this. In addition, most of the descendants of Qingmen are gone, and there are not many people who understand the situation. After the "Cultural Revolution", Hou Baolin once came to my house to find my mother to learn about Qingmen xiangsheng, and at that time he began to cooperate with several university professors to do research on the theory of quyi, and he once intended to write about this history. Unfortunately, in the end, this article was not completed. I actually wrote a short article, "Talking about Qingmen Xiangsheng", which was published in quyi magazine in the second issue of 2005.
"Pass, Help, Bring"
——Beijing Qu Art Troupe reminisces about the past
Jiang Huiming: Born into a cross-talk family, you joined the Beijing Cross-Talk Improvement Group after visiting Mr. Tan Boru in 1951, and later joined the Beijing Quyi Troupe, and after you retired, you often performed at the Beijing Weekend Cross-Talk Club. You have made great achievements in the creation, performance, teaching and research of cross-talk, and it can be said that your life is inseparable from cross-talk.
Chen Yongquan: Yes, in my life, I can say that I am tied to crosstalk. However, before I officially went to the teacher, my mother actually did not approve of me doing this. Why? Although my grandfather and my father both had a certain reputation in this industry, especially my father, who was very popular in the 1930s and 1940s and made some money, he was still unpopular in the eyes of the world and was often looked down upon. When I was a child, my academic performance was very good, and my mother was bent on training me to go to college, find a good job, and have a higher social status. But who admits that my father was hit by a Japanese car and died the next year, only 51 years old. Later, to make matters worse, my father had money in a private bank, and because the bank had collapsed, he had to sell his house at No. 41 Weijia Hutong, and our family fell down at once. My family has experienced such a big change, so after graduating from high school, I will no longer study.
My father was only 41 years old, when I was young, I often traveled north and south, traveled and toiled, and did not teach me very much. But after all, I have always been interested in crosstalk, and when I go to the party and class meeting at school, I also go up to talk to my friends for two paragraphs. After dropping out of school, I didn't look for a job for the time being, so I performed cross-talk at the Dongsi Cultural Palace Amateur Theater Troupe, consciously wanting to exercise myself. After my father's death, Mr. Bai Yunpeng, the brother of the alliance who was worshipped at that time, has always been very concerned about our mother and son, and also intends to train me to sing the Beijing rhyme drum. Later, Mr. Hou Yichen suggested that I should go and say cross-talk, and the son should inherit the father's business. At the recommendation of Mr. Hou, I worshiped Mr. Tan Boru, who was also from Qingmen, as a teacher, and officially began to learn cross-talk. Mr. Bai Yunpeng personally went to my home to talk to my mother, emphasizing that now it is different from the old society, the state attaches importance to literature and art, and people in society also respect artists, so my mother no longer opposes me to say crosstalk. I remember very clearly that on November 15, 1951, I officially entered the Beijing Cross-Talk Improvement Group, because I was a middle school education, so I was there both a student and a paperwork for the improvement group, and I was responsible for recording and sorting out the content and specific opinions of the meeting and discussion every day.
△ Chen Yongquan's photo after participating in the work
Jiang Huiming: You joined the Beijing Qu Art Troupe (referred to as "Beiqu") as soon as it was established, and you stayed until you retired, which can be said to have witnessed and experienced the entire development process of Beiqu. After the founding of the People's Republic of China, the Beijing Quyi Troupe and the China Broadcasting Art Troupe Rap Troupe were two important quyi groups, bringing together a large number of well-known quyi masters, and also cultivating and incubating several generations of qu artists. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Chen Yongquan: The Beijing Quyi Troupe was founded in 1952, the original name was "Beijing Quyi Work Troupe", the nature was private, supervised by the government to send counselors, at that time the first sub-group was Quyi (drum music), and the second sub-troupe was cross-talk. On November 28, 1952, three regiments were established, including Wang Shichen, Liang Xiaolou, Tan Fengyuan, etc., mainly singing drum songs; the second group was mainly singing operas, including Cao Baolu, Wei Xikui, Guan Xuezeng, etc.; the three regiments were cross-talk conferences, and the leaders were Sun Baocai and Gao Fengshan, and I was in the three regiments. Later, the three troupes merged to form the Beijing Quyi Troupe. At that time, in the national music and art circles, the Beijing Qu Art Troupe was indeed well-known, because there were too many famous artists with wrists.
Jiang Huiming: When the troupe was carrying out the reform of the literary and art system, the Beijing Quyi Troupe was merged into the Beijing Opera and Dance Theater, and by November 2015, it had resumed its establishment and became an independent legal entity directly under the Beijing Performing Arts Group. In 2022, Beijing Quyi Troupe will celebrate its 70th anniversary. This history is worth a big book.
Chen Yongquan: Yes, each of us in Beiqu has a special and inseparable feeling for this troupe. No matter how it changes and how the name changes, in my heart, I still feel that our group building policy and artistic practice at that time, including the teaching method of "group with class", are effective, which is also proved by practice.
Let me give you a brief example, like the Quyi Three Troupe I was in, there are many advantages, and it is really "passed, helped, and brought". At that time, there were a lot of performances, and during the Spring Festival, my highest record was 12 performances a day. At that time, the young people were really learning and really drilling, and if they didn't understand, they asked, and the old man was also seriously demonstrating, and every performance had an old gentleman from the listening group sitting behind the screen, listening and making a record, and after the end of the show, he gathered the big guys together, analyzed and explained one by one, and told us where we should change this way, where we could say that. In short, that period was the period of our longest skill, exercising on the stage every day, and the business level improved particularly quickly. We asked for a turn to tease at that time, basically every actor can be teased, and our income is also directly linked to the performance, so the enthusiasm of everyone is very high, and they all hold their breath to make themselves better, which forms an atmosphere of healthy competition. Our three regiments also have an amateur cross-talk innovation and research group, which is responsible for me, and the members are amateur authors with small achievements in various districts and counties in Beijing, who have good works, the troupe arranges for actors to rehearse, and when the revision is mature, they will go on stage to meet the audience. In this way, we have united a large number of authors, and also ensured that our daily business performances can continue to produce new jobs, and some works have gradually become reserved programs that can stand on stage after everyone's brainstorming. I think these measures are of great benefit to the entire Beijing Quyi Troupe to expand its influence and establish a position in the hearts of the audience.
In addition, the student class of Beijing Quyi Troupe is also very effective, not only improving the quyi team, cultivating a large number of quyi talents, and its teaching method is also very inspiring for today. In the early days of the establishment of the troupe, we recruited the first batch of students, mainly drum singing and accompaniment personnel; in 1960, we began to recruit the second batch of student classes for the society, with cross-talk, drum music and accompaniment, like Li Jindou, they were all from the second period. Responsible for cross-talk teaching are Mr. Wang Changyou and Mr. Tan Boru, who are themselves erudite and talented, and they are particularly good at teaching according to their aptitudes, so the students in this period have become famous later, such as Li Jindou, Wang Qianxiang, Li Zengrui, and so on. Later, there were two more student classes, such as Zhang Zhiqiang, Liu Tingkai, Liu Ying, Yu Qian, Li Weijian, Wu Bin, etc., who are now also the backbone of the Beijing cross-talk team.
Jiang Huiming: This kind of "group with class" music art teaching method can indeed produce talents, because students can not only learn book knowledge, but also often practice art on the stage, which is the most critical for cross-talk actors.
△ Beijing Qu Art Troupe in the 1960s
A list of shows of makeup crosstalk
"Drama" and "CrossTalk"
——Experience in the creation and performance of cross-talk dramas
Jiang Huiming: During your time at the Beijing Qu Art Troupe, you participated in the creation and performance of many makeup cross-talk and cross-talk dramas.
Chen Yongquan: Our Beijing Qu Art Troupe began rehearsing makeup cross-talk in 1962, which was the first batch. What is "makeup crosstalk"? According to my understanding, it is a new performance style that combines the language art of cross-talk with the performance characteristics of comedy and burlesque. What is the difference between makeup crosstalk and two people standing on stage and saying crosstalk? The main thing is to increase the amplitude of the performance, and the characters also have simple makeup, but the main performance skills are still cross-talk, such as the characters coming out and going in, turning over the "baggage" and so on. At that time, the attendance rate was extremely high during the performance, and it was also encouraged and supported by the literary and art circles and the general audience, of course, there was also controversy.
At that time, our troupe sent two teachers, Wang Changyou and Liu Sichang, to the Shanghai Burlesque Troupe to study for a period of time, and after returning, they transplanted and created programs such as "Watching Movies", "Calling", "Two Barbers", "So In Love", "Capitalists and Foreign Coachmen", "Old Wealth Enters Beijing", "Tooth Extraction", "Monkey Playing", "Riding the Tram" and so on. These programs we performed were not only very popular in Beijing, but later toured some cities in the south, and the makeup and cross-talk specials were also full. In September 1962, I went to Zhongnanhai to perform "Two Barbers" with Shi Wenhui and "Capitalists and Foreign Coachmen" by Luo Rongshou and Li Guishan. By the time of the Cultural Revolution, makeup and crosstalk had also become a "big poisonous weed" and had been criticized, and those of us who had been affected to varying degrees had been affected. Until the smashing of the "Gang of Four", in 1979, our group resumed a batch of makeup cross-talk, which was the second batch. Among them, "So Sentimental" created by Liu Sichang and me as a gift program for the 30th anniversary of the National Day was a hit and won the first prize of the collective award issued by the Ministry of Culture.
Jiang Huiming: Most of today's young people's understanding of cross-talk drama comes from the works of Lai Shengchuan in Taiwan, in fact, as early as the 1980s, the Beijing Qu Art Troupe rehearsed cross-talk dramas, which was also a sensational literary and artistic phenomenon at that time, and it was also difficult to find tickets when touring all over the country.
Chen Yongquan: It is indeed particularly hot. To talk about our North Qu cross-talk drama, in fact, in 1958, we rehearsed "The Magic Chair" and "Hundred Ugly Pictures", coupled with the experience of rehearsing makeup cross-talk, there was also a drama team in the troupe at that time, the lighting, sets are ready-made, and the actors are also surplus, so it is natural to rehearse cross-talk dramas in the 1980s. In addition, the main reason is that when our troupe was touring Jiangnan, we watched the four acts and six burlesque plays of the Shanghai Burlesque Troupe, "What Nong Looks Like", which was very touched. If we transplant the southern burlesque to the north, won't we solve the problem of language barriers? So with the support of the leadership, Liu Sichang and Li Xuliang, I formed a creative group, and in the interval between tours, we braved the heat and heat, endured mosquito bites, and worked overtime to change the book. Through the joint efforts of everyone, on September 20, 1980, our cross-talk drama "Who Do You Look Like?" based on the Southern Burlesque Drama? " was officially performed at the Xidan Theater in Beijing, and the audience's response was particularly enthusiastic, and the leaders in charge of culture at that time also encouraged us after watching it. In December 1981, our cross-talk drama "Miss City", which was transplanted and adapted from the burlesque play "Miss Shanghai" of the Suzhou Burlesque Troupe, was officially performed and broadcast on CCTV, which also received widespread attention from all walks of life. During the same period, our Beijing Qu Art Troupe also transplanted and adapted several other cross-talk dramas, such as "I Am Willing to Marry Him", "Death wants face", "Baby under the Street Lamp", etc., which were mainly written by Liu Sichang and me. After the launch of these cross-talk dramas, the number of performances has increased greatly, which has also brought a lot of income to the troupe, and colleagues from other theaters and troupes have come to Beijing to observe, ask for scripts, and go back to transplant and adapt them, and the economic benefits are particularly good.
Jiang Huiming: What do you think are the characteristics of these cross-talk dramas rehearsed by the Beijing Qu Art Troupe that year?
Chen Yongquan: First of all, the script of the southern burlesque is already very solid, from the plot to the characters are particularly lifelike. In the process of transplanting and adapting, the main job is to replace the lines with the language that conforms to the appreciation habits of northern audiences, and then give full play to the characteristics of crosstalk, and also make full use of the respective strengths of our group cross-talk actors, adding a lot of "baggage", so the live performance effect is particularly strong. By the way, I heard that there have been a lot of cross-talk dramas being staged recently?
Jiang Huiming: Yes, not only in Beijing and Tianjin, but also in many local opera theaters and some private groups, but the audience's reaction was not very consistent.
Chen Yongquan: I have only seen some relevant reports in newspapers and television, and I have not seen live performances, so I am not qualified to judge others. However, with my creative experience and experience, I think that although "cross-talk drama" is a "drama", it must have "cross-talk", from lines to performance, there must be a cross-talk taste and cross-talk thinking, otherwise, there is no difference with general comedy.
"Dismantle and wash again"
—— The success of "Wusong Fighting Tiger"
Jiang Huiming: The cross-talk "Wusong Fighting Tiger" that you and Teacher Jin Dou cooperated with has both the "shape" of traditional cross-talk and the "god" of new cross-talk, which can almost be said to be the entry-level demonstration textbook of our generation. Moreover, it is also after the award of "Wusong Fighting Tiger", you and Teacher Jin Dou suddenly became well-known comedians in the country, and it can be said that the work of "Wusong Fighting Tiger" has a particularly important significance and influence in your artistic career.
Chen Yongquan: "Wusong Fighting the Tiger" was awarded in 1986, first won the Beijing Municipal Performance Award, and then participated in the CCTV Provincial and Municipal Television Cross-Talk Invitational Competition and the National Quyi New Song (Book) Competition, all of which won the award. Indeed, Jin Dou and I have suddenly become "on fire" since winning the award, and we have gone to perform in various places, and many TV stations have always invited us to go. However, we ourselves know that success is not a pie that suddenly falls from the sky, it is the result of our unremitting accumulation and study before, and it is only on this basis that we have come to fruition.
Take myself as an example, during the "Cultural Revolution", I spent most of my time working in the "May Seventh" cadre school, and later after returning to the regiment, I managed the canteen, was responsible for enrollment, tutored young actors, and so on, which was equivalent to leaving the stage for many years. Although I can't get on stage, I have never relaxed in business, and I have requirements for myself. After the overthrow of the "Gang of Four", the performance of the Beijing Qu Art Troupe returned to normal, and I was able to take the stage, and the business did not fall at all. In 1978, I officially started working with Jindou until I retired.
As for the award of the work "Wusong Fighting Tiger", of course, there are various reasons and opportunities, and I would like to focus on the issue of "second creation" here, which may inspire today's young cross-talk actors.
△ Chen Yongquan and Li Jindou cooperated to perform the cross-talk "Wusong Fighting Tiger"
"Wusong Fighting Tiger" was written by Lian Chunming, the professional author of our regiment, and as soon as we saw the book, we decided that it would be a good "life". It is written according to the traditional cross-talk in the "leg live" way, but there are many new things, is the old drama new singing, the traditional theme of the use of the opposite meaning, at the beginning although it is still relatively rough, but the foundation is very good. After the two of us got the book, we began to process and modify it repeatedly, and we changed it a total of eight times before and after. Although Jin Dou and I are still quite good at "leg work", in order to strive for excellence, we went to the famous Peking Opera artist Mr. Li Wanchun to humbly seek advice, and got a lot of true biographies from Mr. Lao, and many details were handled thanks to the point of encouragement. In the end, we mixed many of the performance techniques in Peking Opera, such as the appearance of small flower faces, playing fans, including some fairy tale dramas, performance techniques of local dramas, etc., with the performance skills of cross-talk itself, which has a strong on-site effect that the audience sees, so that the audience can feel a lot of intriguing implications in laughter.
The success of "Wusong Fighting Tiger" gave us confidence and enlightenment, and the crosstalk that our grandfather and son later cooperated with, every detail was carefully designed, not only respecting the author's originality, but also highlighting our own performance characteristics and styles, like the audience's favorite "Mouse Secret Language", "Omitted Language" and other passages, "dismantling and washing again and again", all show that cross-talk actors must have the ability to create twice.
"For the people to have fun, laugh and sprinkle"
——The inheritance and dissemination of cross-talk art
Jiang Huiming: You not only have profound skills in the creation and performance of cross-talk, but also have rich achievements in theoretical research and teaching. In the 1950s and 1960s, you began to lecture at various cultural palaces and clubs in Beijing, wrote your own teaching materials on cross-talk creation and performance, and cultivated a large number of amateur literary and artistic backbones. Later, he also went to Peking University and even Singapore with Mr. Jin Dou to give lectures, and was warmly welcomed by teachers and students.
Chen Yongquan: Yes. Jin Dou and I were invited by Professor Wang Jingshou of the Department of Chinese of Peking University to give lectures to Chinese and foreign students there. Professor Wang is an expert in the theory of chinese music, he was the first to promote and popularize Chinese music in colleges and universities, and actively promotes the traditional art of Chinese music among foreign students, and we respect him very much. After receiving the lecture task, I did a lot of homework with Jin Dou and prepared carefully. The way we adopt is the combination of theory and practice, by me mainly talk about some "truths", that is, the skills, characteristics, etc. of cross-talk, and then our grandfather and son immediately carry out live demonstration performances according to the content, saying a short paragraph, so intuitive and vivid, more attractive than just talking about theory. Therefore, every time I went to Peking University to give a lecture, the auditorium was full, and the applause and laughter were continuous, and the effect was very good. Foreign scholars like Sgling of the Soviet Union at that time, Bai Suzhen of the United States, and Shi Qingzhao of Canada who specialized in our Chinese music art all came to listen to our lectures.
Before Christmas 1987, when we went to Singapore to perform, we also adopted this method of demonstration while giving lectures. Most Singaporeans understand Chinese, so our performances worked well and the organizers repeatedly asked for extra performances. In the last two performances, we decided to give two unique cross-talk lectures, with Jin Dou as the curtain and the cross-session, and I came to give the lecture. For example, when mentioning a cross-talk noun or skill, the accompanying actors also include Zhao Zhenduo, Zhao Shizhong, Wang Baoqi, Liu Hongyi, Li Jianhua, they will go on stage to demonstrate performances, so that what is cross-talk stand-up, counterpart, group mouth, what is speaking, learning, teasing, singing, passing, etc., the Audience in Singapore suddenly understood and was addicted. The local newspaper also published an article describing our two performances as "a novel performance of profound significance and profound influence, and an art education class with both appreciation and awareness activities."
Jiang Huiming: In terms of the overseas dissemination and exchange of Chinese quyi, you and the teachers of the Beijing Quyi Troupe are also the predecessors who made contributions earlier. In July 1993, you and Mr. Jin Dou also went to Taiwan with the China Broadcasting Arts Troupe to perform, and two of them were of extraordinary significance.
Chen Yongquan: Yes. One of the things was that General Zhang Xueliang, who was 93 years old at the time, came to the theater to see our performance, and later we also went to the general's fifth brother Zhang Xuesen's mansion to perform a special program for them. To say that my father performed for General Zhang Xueliang in those years, after many years, the general actually remembered my father's appearance, and I was able to meet the general in Taiwan, which is also a rare fate. Because there were reporters from CCTV who accompanied them at that time, they left valuable video materials, and later after they were broadcast on tv stations, they also had a strong response. Another thing is that I took in an apprentice Chen Qingsheng in Taiwan, and the scene of the ceremony was on the antique stage after our performance, which was both simple and solemn, both traditional and modern, and the artists on both sides of the taiwan strait present were infected by the atmosphere, and some even shed tears of excitement. In our cross-talk industry, I received Taiwanese apprentices relatively early. Later, with the deepening of cross-strait cultural exchanges, many young cross-talk actors from Taiwan also worshiped famous artists from the mainland as teachers. This is all a good thing, indicating that we cross-talk people are originally the world's family.
△ When going to Taiwan for an exchange performance in 1993, Chen Yongquan (left), Li Jindou (right) and General Zhang Xueliang (center) took a group photo
Jiang Huiming: How many apprentices have you received?
Chen Yongquan: There are only six official apprentices, Liu Chen, Wang Futing, Chen Qingsheng, Yao Fushan, Xue Zonglai, and Zhang Tieshan, of which the eldest apprentice Liu Chen died very early due to illness. In fact, I don't value this very much, and I am not conservative at all, as long as you are willing to learn, I am willing to teach, and I do not need to be paid. Unfortunately, today's young children are not eager to learn, which may be more or less related to some impetuous utilitarianism in the social environment. Moreover, with all due respect, our cross-talk community now lacks an authoritative figure like Zhang Shouchen at that time, so chaos abounds, each saying its own words, and no one obeys anyone.
△ In 1993, when he went to Taiwan for an exchange performance, Chen Yongquan received the ceremony scene of Chen Qingsheng
Jiang Huiming: Your criticism is very sharp and to the point. With your lifelong experience and experience in the cross-talk industry, how do you think we should solve the current dilemma of cross-talk development?
Chen Yongquan: There are two points -- one is to attach importance to basic skills, and the other is to pay attention to creation. Now young actors, the basic skills are too poor, occasionally see their programs on TV, across the screen I am anxious for them ah! Then there is no good work, turning over and over just a few paragraphs, and pinching the head and tail, even if you stuff a new word into it, it is still a superficial article, ah, no pain, no itch. When I was in the qu art troupe at that time, I was in my twenties, and I could already perform more than thirty cross-talks, with traditional and realistic themes, and I could perform for a month without repetition.
Jiang Huiming: Yes. In real life, there are actually many vivid themes and real details, which can be used as creative elements of cross-talk works. Today's cross-talk actors should still sink their hearts, on the one hand, temper their basic skills, on the other hand, create more excellent cross-talk works with the characteristics of the new era, in order to realize the artistic ideal of "seeking pleasure for the people" of several generations of cross-talk people.
△ Chen Yongquan in his later years
After the visit
On June 14, 2021, it was the Dragon Boat Festival, and I deliberately followed Teacher Li Jindou to the hospital to visit Mr. Chen Yongquan. Since assisting Teacher Chen in 2011 to sort out and publish the book "After the Qingmen", there have not been too many opportunities to meet, especially after learning that Mr. Chen was hospitalized, it was more inconvenient to disturb, and it was not convenient to visit due to the epidemic. Teacher Chen was particularly happy to see us go, and as soon as we met, she asked about the recently staged cross-talk drama, indicating that although the old man was in the ward, he was still concerned about the current situation and development of quyi.
Considering Teacher Chen's physical condition, the medical staff has repeatedly advised that it is not advisable to make the elderly's emotions too excited, so according to the interview outline communicated in advance, I only interviewed several major topics in a targeted manner, and some did not go too deep. In fact, whether it is Teacher Chen's life or achievements, there are too many stories worth telling and tasting. Interested readers may refer to the book "Descendants of qingmen - The Autobiography of the Art of The Famous Cross-talk Artist Chen Yongquan" (Cultural Relics Publishing House, October 2011 edition).
Although it is still in the rehabilitation stage, once it is mentioned that he has dedicated his life to the cross-talk cause, the ninety-year-old teacher Chen Yongquan has a clear thinking and tells the story, whether it is the history or current situation of cross-talk, including the inheritance and development of cross-talk, Yi du frankly talked about his views and opinions, for me, it is undoubtedly a rare opportunity to ask questions.
Before saying goodbye, Teacher Chen Yongquan solemnly entrusted us to express our deep gratitude to all the new and old friends who cared about him! And I wish you all a happy life and a smile!
*Interviewer: Jiang Huiming Unit: Institute of Quyi, China Academy of Arts
*China Literature and Art Review Monthly Issue 9, 2021 (View Table of Contents)
Issued: Yang Xiaoxue
Review: Tao Lu
Editor-in-charge: Yi Ping
Note: This article is recommended by the famous cross-talk performance artist Song Dequan, and the copyright belongs to the original author.