When she received the call from the Nobel Prize Committee in Chemistry, Carolyn Bertozzi was sleeping at her home in California. "Seeing that it was a call from Sweden, I knew it wasn't a harassing call." Bertosi told the Beijing News reporter.
It's been more than a month since she won the award, and she can't hide her smile when she talks about the phone call from the Nobel Prize Committee in Chemistry. On the morning of October 5, Beijing time, the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences announced that the 2022 Nobel Prize in Chemistry will be awarded to Danish chemist Morten Meldar and American chemists Carolyn Bertosi and Carl Barry Shaplis for their contributions to the development of "click chemistry" and "bioorthogonal chemistry".
Bertosi, 56, is the eighth female winner in the history of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry, whose main contribution has been the development of the bioorthogonal response that is critical to improving the targeting of cancer drugs. The Nobel Prize Committee in Chemistry said that click chemistry and biological orthogonal reactions have brought chemical generation into the era of functionalism, which will bring great benefits to mankind.
On the morning of November 10, Beijing time, Bertosi was interviewed by a reporter from the Beijing News in the office of Stanford University. When told that he was called a "cool sister" on Chinese social media, Bertosi called himself a "science nerd", "but if I make chemistry cool, it might be more meaningful than winning a Nobel Prize." ”
Earthwired | Dialogue with 2022 Nobel Prize winner Caroline Bertosi
"We sent emails to each other when we got the phone"
Beijing News: It has been more than a month since the Nobel Prize Committee in Chemistry informed you of the award, and looking back at that moment, what were you doing when the committee called you? How did you feel when you learned about the award?
Bertosi: They called late at night California time and I was still sleeping. The phone woke me up suddenly, and I was confused at first. A call from Sweden hit my phone, and it took me minutes to figure it out.
When I learned of the award, I first informed my family. I called my father, my two sisters (Bertosi is the second of the 3 children) and my child was asleep at the time, so they didn't know about it until the next morning. The days have also been busy for more than a month, I have been interviewed by many media, and the schedule has become very full.
Beijing News: You shared this year's Nobel Prize in Chemistry with Professor Schapliss and Professor Meldal, do you have a good relationship with them? Have you been in touch since the award?
Bertosi: Yes, we know each other very well and we have known each other for many years. In fact, the moment we received a call from Stockholm, we emailed each other. We are all very much looking forward to meeting in Stockholm later this year to celebrate.
On October 5, 2022, local time, California, USA, Caroline Bertosi, winner of the 2022 Nobel Prize in Chemistry, was at home. Photo/IC photo
"Launching some drug candidates for the treatment of cancer and inflammation"
Beijing News: The Nobel Prize Committee in Chemistry pointed out that you have taken click chemistry to a new dimension, and the "bioorthogonal chemistry" reaction you proposed can occur without destroying the normal chemical reaction of cells. Can you briefly describe your research work?
Bertosi: My lab invented "bioorthogonal chemistry". We have been working on this since 1996, initially motivated by the idea of developing chemical reactions that can take place in cells, animals, and even human living systems. These were very unusual chemical environments in which very few chemical reactions could be carried out (without destroying each other).
I originally researched this because I wanted to do practical applications related to molecular imaging, more specifically, to image cell surface sugars, and I have long been very interested in the biology of cell surface sugars.
We had the idea of imaging sugar, but that required chemical studies in living systems, but no chemical reactions could be carried out in this environment. So the first thing we do is sit down and try to invent some new reactions. Then we came up with some ideas.
A few years later, Schapliss and Meldal coined the concept of "click chemistry," which shares some features with "bioorthogonal chemistry," which has certain properties similar to "bioorthogonal chemistry," and I think that's why the Nobel Prize Committee in Chemistry merged us in the same prize.
Beijing News: How will your research work help mankind? How to apply it to daily life?
Bertosi: Now, 25 years after the initial work, the reactions we invented have become part of biological research, they have been used as tools to study biological systems, and there are more practical applications in the development of new drugs. For example, there are already some approved drugs, there are drugs that are undergoing clinical trials, and there are even vaccines made with "bioorthogonal chemistry".
Beijing News: What is your current research focus? What are the expectations for the application of "bioorthogonal chemistry" in the future?
Bertosi: We are working on many different projects. Whether in my lab or in other labs, "bioorthogonal chemistry" has become a platform technology. My laboratory applications are mainly focused on new treatments, studying cancer immunotherapy. We have developed a number of drug candidates for the treatment of cancer and inflammation. We use "bioorthogonal chemistry" as a discovery tool, with the help of which we have discovered many fundamental new aspects of biology. If all goes well, we will have many approved drugs.
"I hope more female scientists will win awards in the future"
Beijing News: You are the eighth female winner of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry so far, what do you think this reflects? Does this mean that more women scientists are being recognized?
Bertosi: It's really good sign, and if there are more [women scientists winning], that's certainly better. I think that in this regard, there is a big gap between the discipline of chemistry and the whole society.
There are a lot of great women in chemistry. Throughout my career, we thought a lot of women scientists could win the Nobel Prize, but they didn't. So I hope that more women (scientists) will be recognized in the future.
Beijing News: You mentioned that people often say that you are a role model for women in your lab, but you think more importantly, you are also a role model for men in your lab.
Bertosi: That's true. Especially in 2022, there are a lot of women in my lab who aspire to get a PhD in chemistry and are ready to become scientists. They had their own role models before they met me. But many of the male staff in my lab probably didn't have a woman as their boss.
So for some men, it may be the first time they've encountered a female authority figure at work. I think an important signal is that women can not only pursue careers in science, but they can also become leaders in science, and they can train and train others.
Beijing News: What do you think winning the Nobel Prize means to you?
Bertosi: I don't know yet, because it's only been a few weeks. For now, what it means for me is that I have a platform where people are more willing to listen to me than ever before.
I have a platform where I can have more of a voice, and I hope to use that to do something good for chemistry, like getting more attention to chemical biology, glycobiology, getting recognition for women scientists, and focusing on all the things that I think can expand the field of science so that people who were previously excluded and unrepresented can be included. It would be great if I could give a voice to those who want to get involved in science, chemistry, but don't have the opportunity.
October 5, 2022 local time, California, USA, 2022 Nobel Prize winner in chemistry Caroline Bertosi. Photo/IC photo
"I joined the band because I had fun and wanted to make money"
Beijing News: You were born into a family of scientists, and your father was a physics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. How has your family influenced your pursuit of science? What inspired you to become a chemist in the first place?
Bertosi: My family is very supportive of science. I discovered the charm of chemistry when I was in pre-med during college. I chose organic chemistry as a compulsory course, and I really enjoyed the course, which I found very interesting and practical.
Overall, chemistry is my passion. I fell in love with chemistry in college and was fortunate enough to make chemistry my career. Chemistry has always been good for me (laughs).
Beijing News: You joined a rock band called Bored of Education during your college days, what is the story behind this?
Bertosi: I've always loved rock and other types of music, I joined a rock band when I was in college, I was responsible for playing keyboards in the band, playing some rock and pop music, I joined the band mainly because of fun and making money, that's how I supported myself at that time, and playing music also made me feel better.
However, I don't have much contact with my friends in these bands now. Our drummer was in pre-med, then went to medical school, and the bassist got his PhD in history. Tom Morello, the leader of the band, is now a professional musician and a very successful rock guitarist. (Morello was named to Rolling Stone magazine's "100 Greatest Guitarists").
Beijing News: What we see is that you are very optimistic and positive about life and scientific career. So have you ever been frustrated by a particular study over the years?
Bertosi: Yes, often (laughs). Because scientific research life is always difficult. When we do a scientific study, we try to discover something new, we think we know what the results of the experiment will be, but we are often wrong, and the results we see are often not what we expected. But you have to try to understand it all.
It's frustrating because you don't know what tomorrow will be like and you have to be prepared to make mistakes again. You have an idea, but you may be wrong, and the experimental results may prove you wrong. This is a long-term challenge for researchers, especially for those just starting out in scientific research.
But at the same time, you have the opportunity to discover new things, discover new things that others have never seen or never known, and contribute new knowledge to the world. So it's all worth it.
"Making chemistry cool is more meaningful than winning the Nobel Prize"
Beijing News: We understand that you have a lot of Chinese students and are working with Chinese companies to develop new drugs. How does it feel to work with Chinese scientists and Chinese companies?
Bertosi: Yes, I used to have a PhD student who is now the dean of the School of Chemistry and Molecular Engineering at Peking University, and he is a very good chemical biologist. There are also students who teach at other universities in China, and there are also Chinese students and postdoctoral students who are currently engaged in academic research and related fields in the United States. I'm lucky to have an abundance of talented people from China; Fortunately, I had some amazing Chinese talents in my lab.
Biosciences are growing rapidly in China, and pharmaceutical innovation research is expanding, which is very good news for those in the biopharmaceutical industry who are developing new drugs. It can be seen that China has some cutting-edge work in the field of biomedicine, especially in the field of genetics and new target discovery. So I think if the two governments can find a way to actively cooperate, this is also very important for the scientific field.
Beijing News: Have you ever been to China before? Can you share some stories with us?
Bertosi: I've been to China a few times. I remember going to Beijing and giving lectures at Peking University and Tsinghua University. I remember going on a lecture tour in southern China, like Shenzhen. So I saw different regions in China, and of course the deepest impression was the development of science.
Beijing News: You may not know that you are very popular on the Chinese Internet, and many Chinese netizens say that you are the coolest Nobel Prize winner in history. What do you think about this? What do you want to say to the Chinese audience?
Bertosi: (laughs) I don't think I'm cool, I think I'm a science nerd. But if they think I'm cool, that's great, I'm a little flattered.
I think I'm cool, probably mostly young, right? If (Chinese) young people think a chemist is cool and think a female chemist is cool, that's great. Because in the United States, scientists are not considered cool, young people may be more interested in sports stars, Hollywood stars, and chemists are generally less noticed. So, if I could make chemistry cool, it might make more sense than winning a Nobel Prize.
Beijing News reporter Xie Lian Luan Ruoxi Chen Chao
Editor Zhang Lei Proofreader Li Lijun