The day of the interview with Qiu Jiongjiong was unusually hot.
Carrying a backpack and wearing the slippers that frequently "appear in the camera", he walked into the 798 Star Space Gallery.
At that time, his paintings were on display in the gallery, as well as some sketches and handwritten storyboards from the creation of "Pepper Ma Tang Hui".
Manuscript of the "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" storyboard
The meticulousness of those handwritten storyboards is astonishing, and the final 179 minutes of "Pepper Ma Tang" meets the audience, and it is difficult to imagine the workload behind it.
For this, Qiu Jiongjiong just felt that he needed to give all the staff a "work instructions" and present all the practical details. He felt that the more meticulous the preparation, the more likely it would be to achieve it, and it seemed that it would make him feel more secure.
He calls his films "handmade films," and he says that "nothing else is a dead end."
I noticed that he was wearing a somewhat faded red rope around his neck, and he said that when he was a child, his family had never taken it off.
And his creation seems to be like the red rope around his neck, tied to the influence of his family.
Houlang movie dialogue Qiu Jiongjiong
Qiu Jiongjiong grew up in a Sichuan opera family, his grandfather Qiu Fuxin was a famous Sichuan opera clown actor, soaked in the troupe, childhood memories almost revolved around his grandfather.
The grandfather in front of the stage was running around touring to rescue Sichuan opera, and the young Qiu Jiongjiong did not understand it, playing with the props of the performance in the background, listening to the plays that he could not understand at that time.
Qiu Fuxin is a famous Sichuan opera artist
"My grandfather influenced me too much."
Unlike his father's strict discipline of Qiu Jiongjiong, he felt that what he gained from his grandfather was a kind of freedom and joy, and even some of it was directly rooted in his personality.
After his grandfather's death, to this day, he still explores his understanding of clowns (clowns in Sichuan opera).
At first glance, Qiu Jiongjiong does not look like a typical painter, but he does have a childlike interest that is different from his own age. Many of his paintings are "reconstructions" of classic figures, all with a kind of "Jiong-style" imagination.
Qiu Jiongjiong's "Sanmao" was inspired by Hitchcock
From the perspective of the identity of independent documentary creators, Qiu Jiongjiong is also a special existence. This is not only in the subject matter of his creation, but also in the way he tells it.
Starting with "The Big Restaurant", he began to record the family video and bid farewell to the closure of the big restaurant. The jumping clip has revealed his slightly provocative and mischievous thinking.
Then to the back of "Rehearsal", "Xuantang Gossip", "Grandma", "Crazy"... He carried a storyteller's mind, trying, in his own words, to find a more eloquent expression.
"Obsession" (2015)
Qiu Jiongjiong's work is undoubtedly "heavy", and the various elements in the film: sound effects, scenes, narrative structure... Everywhere carries his ingenuity, and the manpower consumed is also very large.
In "Pepper Ma Tang Hui", the "lightness" that he explores life and death returns to his own personality.
"Pepper Ma Tang Hui" (2021)
He said, "I want to be a fun and good person in this day and age." ”
This seems to confirm once again the influence of his grandfather in his childhood, and he always emphasized the vitality that attracted him, the life force that existed in the human body, and the relationship between people.
So, how does such an independent filmmaker develop his own creation, and what will he talk about when talking about creation?
Big restaurants and movie dreams
POST WAVE FILM
After Wave Movies: You started painting, but how did you start making documentaries?
Qiu Jiongjiong: I grew up in a theater troupe and have developed a strong interest in these things since I was a child. But I'm self-taught in both painting and film.
Actually the film is difficult to start without resources and a team, but painting is easy.
A pen and a piece of paper can be practiced, it is easy to get started. So I got into this more continuous practice of painting very early on.
But the love for movies has not changed, and I look forward to the day when I can shoot.
Later, in the DV era, all people can shoot things with digital devices.
I used the money I earned from painting to buy a set of equipment, at the beginning it was not to shoot a documentary, it was just when the restaurant in our house was about to close, I didn't think too much, I wanted to record this matter, it was natural to directly focus the camera on the family, capture their vividness and vividness.
Rehearsal (2008)
Later, when I made a drama film like "Pepper Ma Tang Hui", my understanding of performance often came from my understanding of people when making documentaries.
"Pepper Ma Tang Hui" (2021)
I myself like to paint portraits, so I have always used images to express the objects I photograph. It's more like a comic, black, alive, and colorful.
Houlang Movies: You mentioned your initial love of movies, what movies did you like when you first started making things?
Qiu Jiongjiong: The first inventors who liked Chaplin and Buzz Keaton in the silent film era.
But halfway through there were things like Fellini who came into my field of vision, Tarkovsky, Fassbinder, and masaki Kobayashi, Akira Kurosawa, and so on.
Well, there is Xie Jin, when I was a child, I soaked in the troupe to watch movies, until now I feel that Xie Jin is a director worth exploring.
Federico Fellini
The only way I learned on my own was through reading, and I learned directly from these books and masters, and although I didn't know them, they were my direct teachers.
Post-Wave Films: What Does Creation with a Family Narrative Mean to You? Or whether it is your grandfather or your father, what is the deepest influence on you?
Qiu Jiongjiong: The deepest influence is still the environment they brought me since childhood.
I grew up living with my grandparents in the troupe and touring with them when I wasn't in school. Growing up in a drama class, my understanding of the world was built up at that time.
My grandfather was a clown actor in Sichuan opera, and he had that authentic "clown spirit", lively, open-minded and desolate. But he died when I was ten.
"Pepper Ma Tang Hui" (2021)
As for my father, he was brought up by my grandfather, and although he later became a businessman, he was a deep literary youth.
When I was a child, my father ordered a lot of books, and he also wrote a lot of long poems, reflected on his youth, and was very diligent. Working during the day and going home at night to write things, I have established such habits. This habit of life has directly affected me.
When I was a kid he wouldn't let me hang out, and when I was in elementary school, he asked me to draw a four-panel comic every day to tell the day's life because he ordered me a lot of comic books. So both film and art are like storytelling to me.
Houlang Movie: When you wrote the text of the play in the early stages, did you plan to nest the territory you were familiar with in the text, or did you want to base the text directly on top of your hometown? How was your creative idea established?
Qiu Jiongjiong: If it is a documentary, I am still a catcher first, and I used a camera to participate in the scene. This is a process of mutual stimulation, not to use a classic text to directly nest into a local theme or atmosphere.
The Great Restaurant (2007)
I may be observing and describing it with a classical textual mindset.
I have a working grammar, but at the end of the day, it's completely unclear which one comes first and which one comes last. But this grammar has always been wrapped up in local emotions. There is no order at all, but I also hope to do this, that is, there is no four-wheel drive, and it is one.
But I still have a long way to go.
Folklore and the concept of life and death
POST WAVE FILM
Houlang Movie: In fact, "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" is very impressive is the concept of life and death in it, what is your personal concept of life and death?
Qiu Jiongjiong: The life and death and transition in "The Pepper Ma Tang Society" is a flowing water mat, which is full of that kind of fireworks or that kind of alcohol.
"Pepper Ma Tang Hui" (2021)
I would like to add to the influence my father brought me, as well as the amount of alcohol I drank. I dare not say that it is the spirit of Dionysus, because my wine is far worse than my father's, but it is just a love of wine.
I want to put the spirit of the mad Dionysus directly into the "Pepper Ma Tang Society".
"Pepper Ma Tang Hui" is about parties, flowing water mats... This kind of special homely and fireworks party, the parting and party of the people in the film is actually about this.
So I think life and death are actually Sichuan (feelings).
Coupled with the fact that most Sichuanese people are humorous, they will use an "unorthodox" tone to talk about these very serious things.
In fact Chinese imagination of death is also quite secular, very specific, just living in another place. They have exuberant vitality and imagination.
For the other world, Chinese have a set of their own imagination to digest, which is something that affects me deeply.
Houlang Movie: "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" connects the stories of many individual characters into a historical line, how do you examine the coherence of the whole work, because the volume is really huge.
Qiu Jiongjiong: In fact, it uses an axis, about this Huangquan Road to Fengdu.
And then the others are fragments of their memories, and also fragments of looking back at the other side.
They have been through many times and events, but I don't like the so-called violent dramatic conflict.
I like the "four or two strokes" life, so my expression is striving for a lightness. When you look at it, isn't this just living a life?
I gave expression to a mediocre life, injecting that real pain, suffering, crazy simplicity of humanity, or complex humanity into the most everyday life.
But my road is still long, and this is the way I pursue creative.
Houlang Movie: You also mentioned the folklore of this place, in fact, I would like to ask, is this something you are trying to present?
Qiu Jiongjiong: I will be very cautious now to say that I am still an individual.
"Gossip of Xuantang" (2011)
Because the geographical thing is still too vague, it is still too general to give this judgment to the individual, or even to the family.
Some differences will also be seen in Sichuan. As observers all our lives, we need to constantly explore the richness of the individual.
I now feel that people's life is too short, and their ability and energy cannot meet the things they should do, which is a very regrettable thing.
"Tailor-made, frugal and frugal"
POST WAVE FILM
After The Wave Movie: I just saw your scripts and drafts in the gallery, and it seems that the refinement of form has always been something you pay attention to, right?
Qiu Jiongjiong: Yes, for me this (form) is a craft.
The methods I set up, the film shooting needs to use this to execute, but the execution will definitely be more optimized according to the scene.
But I think it's very important to have a particularly solid bottom, especially for us low-cost stuff.
And I especially hate waste, because movies are stained with industry, and I personally feel that it is consumption, symbolizing the excessive expansion of resources.
So I've been thinking about how to use limited resources to do something more in-depth.
It seems to be limited by conditions, but it can be expressed as much as possible to form a set of grammar.
This is an action that I am actively doing, because I think film creation should be "low-carbon", but it is still related to the film genre, after all, I am doing author films. But too much consumption of (industrial) stuff, I think there is original sin.
The shed in "Infatuation"
"Pepper Ma Tang Hui" is too much work, manual film, pure pure by death.
This kind of film does not integrate too many resources, but I really like the state that the poorer the better, but that tailor-made and frugal are made. But the bottom line is that you must satisfy your own artistic pursuits, but it consumes too much manpower.
For example, the entire visual system of "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" is built, and there is no real scene, it is all drawn with one stroke. Sound, from dialogue to motion effects to natural environment sounds, is all done, so the whole thing in "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" is the act of a craftsman making things, very stubborn, very crazy behavior.
Houlang Movie: "Crazy" and "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" seem to use the same props or shooting locations, is it also out of "low carbon" considerations?
Qiu Jiongjiong: Yes, the location is the same, and at the same time, some of the previous props were used, such as the horns that were the horns of "Crazy" that year, and later we repainted them with color.
"Obsession" (2015)
The original intention of making "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" was that I always wanted to make a film about clowns (in this case, Sichuan opera clowns).
And I've always wanted to make a pure drama. "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" is that I want to implement a set of my way of understanding movies, I want to show everyone what I think a good movie should be, so I try to do it according to the standards I set.
Another is because of my grandfather, the earliest "Rehearsal" involved a lot of people, at that time they all fooled me, let me hurry up and shoot a related to my grandfather, Sichuan opera. So you see my later film is Sichuan opera, and the things of Sichuan opera actually have a sense of soul.
Rehearsal (2008)
Although I have never had great confidence in shooting this subject, because I think that kind of vivid field is no longer there, and the wonderful time when people watch dramas or act and live their lives is gone.
By 2016, I moved to Shenzhen, where I lived for three years, when I started writing new scripts, but I never had a particularly good inspiration.
It wasn't until 2017, the 30th anniversary of my grandfather's death, that my dad published a biography of my grandfather with 15 chapters. He asked me to draw an illustration for him in each chapter.
I drew that illustration because I wanted to tell the scene and the people, and at that time I hooked up my desire to create, and suddenly I was very determined, and after doing that painting for more than two months, I thought it was time to make a movie that I wanted to see in my own way.
Houlang Film: Some people will comment on your work, will say that it is too designed or too formal, will they mind such an evaluation?
Qiu Jiongjiong: I don't mind this, the form is my grammar.
For example, I think the characters I'm shooting now have the kind of portraiture I had in the documentary [I made] that year, and I'm particularly heavy.
"Pepper Ma Tang Hui" is from the visual aesthetic point of view, because it is a studio shoot, but also the subject of the performance stage, then I used a lot of shallow depth of field some scheduling.
It's very much like the ones we see in churches or in temples, but in churches, altarpieces are this shallow depth of field with an inner spiritual force. At the same time, the mirror is very similar to a long scroll slowly unfolding.
Manuscript of the Pepper Ma Tang Society
Fun is a must
POST WAVE FILM
Post-Wave Movies: In a previous interview, you talked about your dramatic approach that pays particular attention to distancing. Does this have to do with the influence of your childhood in a theatrical environment?
Qiu Jiongjiong: Very relevant.
Distancing is at the heart of my creative grammar, and there are many such techniques in traditional drama. For example, two people who are not in the same time and space, through the words of the heart, an intertextuality occurs, and finally becomes a relationship that produces dialogue. Some such techniques are also used in "Xuantang Gossip".
"Gossip of Xuantang" (2011)
Now we go to the theater to see a play, in fact, the cost is quite high. But watching a show used to be a normal part of life, including the audience below.
They are actually part of the stage, as the rehearsal book says, they sit in the theater, as if they were sitting in their own living room, of course.
Another one that particularly touched me was the clown (clowns of Sichuan opera), who resembled rigolets or bards. They are a good explanation and existence of the effect of separation.
The Joker is particularly suited to precise humanity, and his face itself is a typical sign of "separation", sadness, ecstasy, evil, and at the same time noble, lowly, righteous, and so on. At its core is a critical consciousness.
Therefore, I think that the core of "separation" is an author's perspective, and the clown is the closest to the author's perspective on the stage, and the closest to this accurate person in terms of human nature.
Post-Wave Films: You just mentioned some of the earlier works, like "Grandma" as a film. I can feel a personal outlook on life in it, including that you have a strong empathy for this character, so I'm actually more curious about the impact this film has on you.
Qiu Jiongjiong: In fact, my films have always had empathy.
The most I did in "Grandma" was about the structure, and then I followed him closely, focusing on his face.
Grandma (2010)
Generally when shooting people, I always feel that I and the other party are in a mirror relationship. I myself regard Fan Qihui as my family, but in fact, we have been together for two years before the opportunity is opened. In fact, I am not very good at doing a group of subjects, I prefer to be a character, for more intimate characters, I will be more certain, I can find different angles.
Grandma (2010)
Houlang Movie: Well, Fan Qihui is very open in front of you.
Qiu Jiongjiong: Yes, because I heard him tell a lot of stories, and then I just shot two interviews, one at his house, one at my house, just two days, and then followed him to shoot at the place where he performed, about eight times, and it was over.
Because starting with Grandma Huang, I was trying to tell a story like this, and then I felt that he was particularly suitable for a funny storyteller that made the audience feel mixed, and I wanted to make such a storyteller.
I'm not the kind of guy who comes and turns on, keeps "ingesting", I only shoot what I want.
For example, when I shoot Fan Qihui, after the previous sentence in the film is finished, the next sentence may be the material two hours later.
Grandma (2010)
I took a lot of notes while watching the footage, and I was a Sony DV, pseudo-HD. I used that machine to shoot from "The Big Restaurant" all the way, and only eliminated it after filming "Xuantang Gossip".
It used to be all tape, the tape was cut with a PC, connected to a wire and connected to the camera, and then the camera disk was rotated, which was very complicated, and our PC memory was very small.
Every day I took the material back and looked at it repeatedly, and then I started taking notes and taking some timecode.
The conditions were not good at that time, and it was a world of difference from now.
You just asked me why I drew that storyboard script, and I actually really wanted to be as specific as possible when you realized it.
Including the first draft of the script of "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" written out 130,000 words, that is, a shooting instruction manual, it is not a simple literary script, there is dialogue, there is a plot, and how the camera moves, what the scene is like.
All I thought about was how to achieve these things in a four-hundred-square-meter shed.
I think implementation is the most important.
Houlang Film: You yourself have a reflection on your creative method and the effect of the purpose of creation. In fact, I also especially want to ask, just like when you reach this stage, how much you may think about a certain mission in this era, or do you think about your vision?
Qiu Jiongjiong: I thought about it, and said that you must cut it (laughs).
Just kidding, in fact, I just want to be a down-to-earth author, to be an interesting author in this era.
It's important to be interesting in this day and age because it's boring, but I want to be a funny nice guy.
The only thing I'm anxious about now is the volume of a work, the intensity of work, and the physical problems.
Because I'm a handmade movie, it's full of body heat, and I'm going to think I'm going to be so dead for how long can I do it?
This is a question that I'm particularly concerned about right now, but I'm constantly writing about it at the same time.
After the Wave Movie: Can you expand on what you said is interesting?
Qiu Jiongjiong: Interesting is complicated, accompanied by suffering.
For example, we face a lot of work and pressure when shooting in the studio, but the artificial things stimulate a sense of temperature.
We need human body temperature, but this thing is definitely painful.
That's pain and ecstasy, which goes back to the clown spirit I just mentioned. So it's not just a leisure or a relaxed state.
Yes, it's a dead end. But it's funny for me, because it's my way of resisting.
Houlang Movie: There will often be some "idle writing" in your films, such as the image of "Cupid" in "Xuantang Gossip", such as Li Longji (god statue) in "Pepper Ma Tang Society", what is the purpose of such a design?
Qiu Jiongjiong: I have always wanted to be an observer, and I have made the final decision based on the individual and the material itself.
In terms of the integration of materials, I want to highlight a benchmark.
This (design) you're talking about is one of the things that I think is very important for documentaries, which is to present an intertextual relationship between the filmmaker and the filmed.
Houlang Movie: What are your work habits like?
Qiu Jiongjiong: When I get up in the morning, after I finish doing the nucleic acid, I go for a walk, and then I come back to write, almost (writing) at one or two o'clock in the middle of the night. Then watch a few fragments before going to sleep.
Reading the script over and over again is time consuming, and I don't get lazy in terms of work intensity, basically sticking to it for 8 hours a day.
If you can't write it, you have to write it, you have to be in front of that computer, you can't leave the scene, I don't believe that you can write something in a café (laughs).
Houlang Movie: Yes, because in the current environment, everyone is discussing, that is, whether this movie is almost gone. Want to ask you about your personal thoughts?
Qiu Jiongjiong: I don't pay much attention to this, including painting, and I don't pay much attention to what contemporary art is like.
Whether the movie will be gone, it is too early to say.
When the camera was invented, some people said that painting was dead, but painting is still active.
People are anxious because technology is changing rapidly, but I just stick to my ways. Like noodles are now machine-pressed out, but I can hand roll out a copy, so what I do is a choice of "tailor-made, frugal by people".
Post-Wave Movies: Last question, you may have been exploring something very experimental in the early days, but at the same time you said that you still want to tell the story in a colorful way. So in the middle of it is how do you find this balance yourself?
Qiu Jiongjiong: First of all, I have doubts about the experimental thing.
I only want to see a transparency, I don't feel that my film is deliberately experimenting for the sake of experimentation.
"The Big Restaurant" may be misleading and experimental, because it was my first time making a movie, I had a confused look, I always wanted to ingest, to capture ideas, and finally it became my bravest film.
But this can only appear in the debut, once some method or something else is formed, it may go in another direction. So now there are people in "Pepper Ma Tang Hui" who also says experiments, but I think this is actually my grammar.
I don't want to do that kind of thing that has a particular sense of distance.
Interview 丨 Cornices
The possibility of images as a medium.
Edit 丨 Cornices Typesetting 丨 Stone Pages
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