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The new house is about the middle of December, the opening ceremony, but as a novice Xiaobai wants to find out most of the decoration links alone these 20 days is definitely not enough, especially I had the idea of self-installation or looking for an engineering team at the beginning, which puts forward higher requirements for my own decoration knowledge storage, so I will probably look at some decoration science every day from August to September, and the main channel is worth buying
It is worth buying as a graphic recording platform, there are a lot of grass planting, stepping on the pit, avoiding the pit article, both short and illustrated, very suitable for the fragmented time to open the look. And you can see different decoration cases, in the process of looking, you can gradually find your favorite decoration style, you can make good use of fragment time and a large amount of information accumulation to gradually form your own ideas. However, it should be noted that there are many soft texts, and when watching, you must also learn to identify advertisements.
Generally speaking, it is a platform for big guys to show their knowledge reserves, the knowledge inside is more professional, and many large paragraphs of text are suitable for being able to calm down and look at it, or when there is a special learning need, such as I want to understand what is called hydropower walking, then I may have a more intuitive understanding of zhihu.
Recommended information is more miscellaneous, I generally in the toilet time will click on, often a few videos will be mixed with a decoration related content, more casual, but the video display is more intuitive. Use the search function alone to see the decoration, then there will be more ads. So I generally rarely take the initiative to learn to decorate on it.
How to choose the decoration form? Self-installed? Renovation teaming? Half-inclusive or all-inclusive for renovation companies?
When it comes to the form of decoration, I have to consider several questions, the first question is, what is my decoration budget? Zhonghai 143 square meters of house, remove the pool and internal and external walls, but also only 110 square meters, how much money per square is more appropriate?
When considering the budget, I synthesized the economic strength of my family, asked a few colleagues who had just been renovated, looked at other people's decoration budgets on the Little Red Book, and went to the whole house to customize ah bathrooms, home appliances, etc. To evaluate their own consumption level, and finally roughly set a 30w budget.
How to allocate the 30w budget is another problem, roughly divided into hard + soft. Recently, there is a very popular saying called "light hard and heavy soft decoration" and I can buy better home appliances and furniture in a limited budget considering the cost of reducing hard decoration. Of course, the meaning of light and hard decoration is not that I want to use very poor materials to reduce costs, I think the light hard decoration is to reduce unnecessary decoration, such as wooden veneer, such as rock slab TV background wall hahahahaha (of course, there is money can be installed, mainly I have no money), the quality of the hidden project must be guaranteed, otherwise the follow-up maintenance is more troublesome.
The second question to consider is, do I have enough taste to put my overall texture (including the whole house tone control, size control)? This determines the necessity of the designer's existence. If you are usually a person who is very good at matching colors and knows exactly what you want, it is very happy to try to design your own nest, but I am not, so I think it is necessary to have a design room to help me think about the layout and various decorations in my decoration process.
After considering these two questions, let me talk about the form of decoration that I understand.
The first is self-loading. Self-installation is to do your own supervision, find your own workers, buy your own materials (including wires, water pipes, electrical pipes, paint putty such as large projects, but also including brushes, white latex, bricks, cement sand and other small materials) need you to know the decoration process very well, know how to most efficiently arrange the connection between different types of workers. And to know where to find these workers, not only to find them, but also to find workers with a reputation, conscience. Another thing that needs to be more proficient is the construction process. This is the key to self-loading. Finding scattered workers I think is easier to fool, and in general (I guess, if not please point out) there is no warranty. Therefore, I need to know this knowledge in the process of supervising the work, and I can better grasp the quality and price of construction.
The second option is the renovation team. This is the form of renovation that I first considered. First, the renovation team has a foreman, which is equivalent to someone who will grasp the construction progress for me, and what should be done next will be reminded to me by the foreman. Second, the renovation team is affordable. Before I closed the building, I compared the general quotation of a decoration company half-package and a decoration team foreman in Ganzhou, Jiangxi (my hometown, in the industry for more than 20 years, with rich experience) (the foreman does not produce drawings, can only measure the house on the spot according to your oral needs quotation), the difference is about 40,000, the decoration company started to quote about 130,000, and the decoration team quoted more than 90,000 (very rough quotation).
Thinking that 40,000 pieces can buy a lot of things, I once very much wanted to choose the decoration team, mainly because the price is not expensive, this foreman is still very real (yesterday I sent a circle of friends at the opening ceremony, this foreman also very sincerely congratulated me on the start of the work)
Why didn't you choose in the end? 1, the property report to the drawings, I think it is troublesome to find someone to draw the drawings (here is indeed lazy)
2. Can I guarantee that I can dictate my own needs? (Definitely yes, but a little afraid of trouble, but also afraid of later ripping)
3, office workers can not often go to the construction site, if there is no drawings, it is best to go to the construction site often to see the situation.
In fact, if I solved these problems perfectly at that time, I was very willing to choose the decoration team, why is forty thousand pieces not fragrant? And I have watched the decoration post for several months, as fine as how to approve putty on a wall, where to hang the net, the way of water and electricity, I can say it. I still know more about decoration, and my mother installed two suites in her hometown last year to find a decoration team... This knowledge does not have to be wasted.
Light typing
Next, let's talk about the renovation company, I put the half package and the whole package together.
The first is to distinguish between half-package and all-inclusive, half-package refers to the decoration company only wrapped accessories (wires, line pipes, water pipes, paint, putty, cement sand, bricks... And labor, the all-inclusive is on the basis of the half-package there are floor tiles, whole house customization (there is no), toilet, lights (some do not)...
Half a package, you can choose the floor tiles ah whole house customization of these main materials, the degree of freedom is higher, and then the quality can also be adjusted according to their own budget; all-inclusive because of the scale effect, it is likely that the whole house will be better than half a package plus their own total cost of buying the main materials, and the designer can design according to the existing all-inclusive content, more harmonious, not easy because we buy the wrong car and overturn. But there is also a problem with the all-inclusive package is that there are fewer choices, and a brand may limit the selection of only a few series to use...
Then let's talk about the choice of renovation companies. I've been to three renovation companies and got three offers. Of course, in the end, I decided which one to choose not only the quotation factor, the overall feeling (by fate), the surrounding influence (this is also very important), the construction process and the choice of materials I have considered.
Why is it said that the surrounding influence, because my colleague and I bought the same community, together to collect the building, in line with the principle of scale effect to increase bargaining power, we try to choose the same store to purchase goods or services, so my colleague's opinion is also very important to me.
The following is a look at these three companies, in chronological order of my negotiations. 1.Ming trench decoration 2.Original taste decoration 3.Wooden language Hui decoration
About 10 months ago I contacted Ming Trench Decoration, first the customer service will send me some of their cases, then choose the case I like, assign the designer, say the need, and then make an appointment. Ming Trench arranged for me is Zhao Gong of Jinshan Lake Store, a very gentle female designer, the overall design style is very warm and clean, for my apartment type from the perspective of practicality, aesthetics and feng shui for a detailed analysis, although in the end did not choose Ming Trench, but I still recommend Zhao Gong. The main feature of the trench should be a high-end line (I can't afford to spend the collective high-end line), the wire used is the Fushe wire, the water pipe is the Weixing high-flow antibacterial pipe, the paint is Fenlin or Dufang, and the decoration materials are probably known to know that these are the top level configurations. Other processes are also as perfect as possible, such as the whole house hanging net, the toilet is with prefabricated board overhead, etc., the overall feeling to me is very rigorous, of course, the price is also very beautiful, the whole house down to more than 12w, this is still I put the Rich Society wire into the premise of golden dragon feathers ...
The second renovation company is original taste decoration. The new store opened near Jiangyu City, close to Zhonghai. The price of the original taste is very good value for money, half package, all inclusive, the selectivity is relatively high. But the original taste is a bit far from where I live now, which also determines that there are some problems with our communication.
First of all, the first time to go, the sales said to help us meet the designer of the Jiangbei store, the result of our big old past, sales took us to see a management bar, I thought it was a designer, I said my needs and ideas, said and found that something was wrong, because the other party felt that they did not want to designer, said that everything can be done, but did not do any records according to what I said, nor did I draw any layout modifications on the floor plan. Later, when I went back, I returned to God, maybe the opposite was not the designer... In the end, it was also found that this is indeed the store manager, not the designer, which is equivalent to a white run. (It's not a waste of money, because there is a gift to enter the store, send me a barrel of oil, thank you!) ）
The second time I went is the designer came, the designer has a lot of ideas, a lot of modified layout points said I am very satisfied, now forget what the designer is called, but I still think he is very worthy of recommendation, including his mobile phone has a lot of his design, really textured, very convincing. Later, I also went upstairs to the exhibition hall, looked at the materials of the all-inclusive package, such as the brand of the tile Marco Polo and Oceano, etc., the wooden floor has the icon and nature, the bathroom has Hengjie, the whole house has the European pie, the bedroom door has TATA, and the price of the all-inclusive package was about 160,000 at the time, and the configuration of the auxiliary materials was also very high, at that time I was very excited, because if the all-inclusive is only 160,000, I am equivalent to at least 120,000 for the purchase of electrical appliances and furniture, the overall pressure is not so big.
Therefore, all-inclusive is still a good choice.
But in the end, why didn't I choose the original taste, the main reason is that I have a good memory, I wrote down 80% of the goods number when I visited the exhibition hall, and then from the original taste, I went straight to Wandian City, and found some corresponding goods according to the goods number remembered in my mind, comparing the price. It is true that all-inclusive is cheaper than self-purchase, but the style you can choose is not the same as what I think, so the overall effect and cost performance are two factors, and I have not set the original taste for the time being.
In fact, at this time, I did not completely reject the above two companies, ming trench let me see the near-perfect construction, original taste let me know the high cost performance, these two are what I pursue, but they are not fully in line with my requirements - good quality and low price hahahahaha.
At this time, my colleague killed out. My colleague is a person who pays a lot of attention to word of mouth, his preliminary preparation work is different from me, I spent most of my time studying the decoration process and various building materials, he is mainly lurking in the major forums (mainly decoration forums) to pay attention to a variety of good reputation of the company, at this time he recommended three decoration companies to me, snail house, wood language hui and what company (sorry to forget), because I was addicted to the trench and original taste at that time, so these three companies I did not go, he first went to the snail house and the trench, and then the feedback is perfect decoration, But all are a bit expensive. So we temporarily positioned the snail dwelling and the ming trench to consider the same batch, and then he went to Mu Yuhui and said that he was satisfied and suggested that I go.
Deng Gong, who docked with me, a young and smiling female designer (I found that I like female designers, maybe female designers know what I am thinking better), Deng Gong's design belongs to the simple one, and is better at using Morandi colors. Of course, the strongest sense of existence in the entire early communication process is the boss - Yang Zong. Mr. Yang himself is the kind of design and construction city, and then he also has a good idea about our layout, and he said that several points are more satisfactory to us. (These decoration companies have different views on the layout of the living room, but I am satisfied, maybe this is the characteristics of people who belong to the pig, easy to meet it haha)
Wood Language Hui's selection of materials: paint Valspar (can reduce the money for the master paint, and then subtract from the Doroth, all for the same level of the series) wire Golden Dragon Feather, water pipe Rifeng orange pipe (said to be the highest end line), the line pipe seems to be Weixing. Putty is Nippon, ceiling is Conafu... Basically belongs to the good choice, in addition to the paint I am really lonely and unclear, but also did not change.
I went to the construction site to take a look at it, but I didn't see the hidden project. However, I still recommend that you must look at the hidden project when you go to the construction site, such as whether the waterproof brush is good or not, how to line the wire and water pipe, how to deal with the place where the strong and weak electricity crosses, these are actually quite important, although I do not understand, it is best to do more homework before going, ask questions when the construction site does not understand, and go home to continue learning where there are doubts, so that it will not be fooled.
In the construction site to see two almost finished, can only say that the brick paste is very flat, the paint brush is good, other really can not see.
Speaking of looking at the construction site, the construction site of the trench I looked at about three or four, really very good, very clean, the line to see is not bad money neat bend, pleasing to the eye, and the site has real-time monitoring, the owner can see at any time, people are very assured.
Speaking of this, the overall impression of Mu Yuhui and the construction process, the selection of materials are almost the same, but when it comes to the construction process, I still interject, the construction of these large companies is very good, the construction process is almost the same, such as the smoke pipe Ah toilet sewer pipe with bricks, such as waterproof brush how high the brush is, such as the whole house hanging net, these seem to be similar. But whether it is really done well or not has a lot to do with the people who build it.
There is a very important person below, Mu Yuhui sent someone to help me inspect the house (yes, yes, I did not sign the contract to go to the white prostitute service), this is the yellow worker who will arrange for me to build after that, the yellow worker is very sharp, we are discussing the layout, he will immediately take out a ruler to show us, where we have doubts, he will immediately draw it out with chalk and explain it to us. In short, people are very realistic, very positive and serious, willing to communicate. Therefore, getting to know the foreman in advance also has some help in choosing a decoration company. The appearance of Huang Gong strengthened my idea of choosing Mu Yuhui, and I was also relieved to be decorated by such a person. (The trench and the original taste have not come to the step of seeing the foreman, so this is not a good comparison)
Here are the prices. To negotiate the price with the decoration company, first of all, to determine the contract addition, this is very important, because many cases of stepping on the pit on the Internet are because of the early stage and the decoration company every negotiation, began to install a variety of additional money, so before signing the contract to pay the deposit, you must roughly determine what you want. For example, how do you do the ceiling, where to do it, do a few squares (the general half package package does not include the ceiling, the original taste half package includes about 20 square meters of ceiling), such as which walls do you want to demolish, which walls to build, and how big bricks are laid in the living room? Whether to tile on the wall, the early stage is not sure about this, and the later addition is added to your doubts about life.
As shown in the picture before signing the contract, my colleagues and my two families went to Muyuhui Decoration to finalize the details of the decoration, accurate to the size of various bricks, the size of the ceiling and the construction process (I asked the whole house network to not mix glue paint and not mix water).
I think there are things that must be communicated when signing a contract:
1. The workers of the decoration company have no insurance, and there is a problem of compensation for accidents
2. Duration issues
3. After the contract is signed, there is a question of the unit price of additional items
4. The contract does not clearly write the process, such as whether the 369 paving of wood grain bricks is added
The above few are not written clearly in the Wooden Language Hui contract I asked additionally, specifically I and my colleagues and two families discussed a contract supplementary document, and the Wooden Language Hui boss jointly reviewed and signed and stamped the Wooden Language Hui official seal. If necessary in the future, I can send the contract supplementary documents to the post for your reference.
I have seen the construction site of the decoration company, learned about the qualifications of the decoration company, and finalized the details of the decoration (it turns out that it was useless to finalize at that time Haha, because of my personal reasons, I have been changing my decoration ideas in the later stage, which led to the designer Deng Gong following us to change the design, and later there were indeed some additions, all because of my personal ideas. This also shows the importance of determining the unit price of the later increase before signing the contract), after talking about the discount (there should be no one who does not talk about the discount), it is to be happy to pay the deposit and sign the contract happily
An important link was just missed, that is, how to determine the area of the decoration package contract?
For example, the apartment type of Zhonghai 143, in fact, the use area is only 110+, but the wooden language hui calculates that it is 130. This is because the area algorithm of the decoration company is different, the wooden language hui includes the external wall area and the air conditioning external machine position (this I really don't know why), and the area of the trench is including the external wall area, but does not include the air conditioning outside the machine, so this is still necessary to confirm it. In addition, after the completion of the wooden language, our family also measured it once, and each item was reviewed with the size of Deng Gongliang, and the error was only 1 centimeter, which was very fair. Then there is the estimation of the area of the outer wall, Mu Yuhui estimated 240mm, our family does not believe in evil, think that the outer wall is not so thick, the Internet searched for the sea actually 300mm, the amount of the scene is actually 350mm, so The wooden Language Hui is still more conscientious in the estimation of the outer wall.
The image below shows the dimensions I measured myself.
Skip the chapter on determining the decoration style, and now let's talk about whole house customization.
Whole house customization I really worked hard, I believe a lot of decoration people also spent a lot of thought here. Mainly including: environmental protection!!! Plate quality !!! devise!!! Price!!! Installation!!!
These are the questions I've been struggling with for the longest time.
First of all, let's talk about how many types of companies I've looked at.
1. Not bad money imported plate (EGGER board, Knossbon) operator
2. Not bad money domestic ceiling (Oupai, Hollyoaks)
3. Domestic good goods yyds dealers
I believe that when not considering the budget, everyone must want to use the best, such as the Egger board that has been in the limelight in the past two years, and the price increase in 2021 has allowed him to transform from a plate into a financial product, and no one thought that frying the plate could also make money. As well as a premium alternative to EGGER boards, Knoss. (There is also Finsa and other prices are almost not mentioned, no in-depth understanding)
The imported plates led by EGGER board are known as The Japanese F4 star environmental protection grade, even the granular plate (the imported plate seems to be dominated by the granular plate) can also achieve polar formaldehyde or even no formaldehyde release, and can be about 2.8 meters high to the top, very in line with the current minimalist design aesthetics. It can be said that there is nothing wrong with it except that you are expensive, but you are the original sin for me.
Imported plates I saw two whole house customization, the first is located in Asia Pacific City Murano customization, the owner is two couples, more enthusiastic. Even if I didn't give a penny, I had already made all my design layouts. Very intuitive presentation of their products. Murano's pricing method is according to the unfolding area, that is, a wardrobe, how many flat doors, how many flat cabinets, how many flats see the light board, how many plates are used in a cabinet, how many door hinges, and how many handles are very accurate. But once I chose the EGGER board, the price could not be lowered, even if I only used the EGGER board as the door and the cabinet with their own plate from the factory, the price exceeded my budget.
The second imported panel whole house customization is located in the Glorious Furniture CBD of Carred International, the owner is a very fast-talking, familiar with the plates in their own shop can no longer be familiar with the people, said a color number he can immediately take out this board, very professional. The first time I went to his house to see the EGGER board, but there were still a few months before the closing of the building, so it was not decided, and the EGGER board cabinet door + domestic cabinet body was not cheap at that time. As a result, when I went again, the price of the Aiguban board increased because of the epidemic and speculation, and the boss was also very helpless. It is worth mentioning that the manufacturer of Cared International is a wenxin factory authorized by EGGER in China, which is more powerful and has quality.
Both companies can do pur and laser edge banding, and the door panels are door to top. Later, the price of the EGGER board increased, I also considered changing to Knossbon, Krader International recommended cabinets are used in Knossbon, there is an activity price, but nothing is included, such as yitong ah drawers and the like are not included, follow-up to add these costs if it is still more than my budget.
Overall, I can't afford to consume imported plates, and the overall exclusion is considered.
The second is the domestic whole house custom ceiling (I sealed)
Opal and Hollyoaks, both quoted to me, both expensive.
The domestic top whole house customization is a package of how much money, including about 20 square projection area of the cabinet, but the price of the cabinet exceeding this area is relatively high, and the overall calculation is almost the same as the imported plate, and the plate is produced by the top domestic plate manufacturers.
After seeing two domestic top whole house customization, I have a new understanding of domestic plates, that is, there is no need to only foreign excellent theory, domestic plates after several years of rapid development, in the multi-layer board, particle board and even some called Hexiang board wood incense board European pine board, has been very good. And even if it is not the so-called European standard, the American standard or the Japanese F4 star standard, in October 2021, the mainland launched a new version of the environmental protection level standard, which has a higher measurement standard for the whole house customization and the environmental protection level of wooden floors, wooden doors, etc.
In China, there is no need to use Chinese plates to say that this Chinese plate is Japan's top standard, I think there is really no need, only Chinese products are really good, Chinese standards will become the world standard, Chinese products can go to the world, do the world's "foreign brands", become the world's industry benchmark.
The above words are the feelings I have after watching a lot of really many whole house customizations, in China, MADE IN CHINA should not become a medium level standard, but really do a good job and become a top level. (This is not an excuse that I can't afford foreign plates, and I sincerely wish mainland plates can go to a higher level)
Today's end introduces the latest environmental protection level launched by the mainland (plus my personal thinking)
Top: ENF level. It is said that even if the plates that reach this level are used in large quantities, they will not be superimposed and cause formaldehyde to exceed the standard
Secondary: E0. Already level with the world level, choosing this in home improvement is very good and the price is acceptable
Level 1: Level E1. Large area use may also have an impact, but for living rooms, shoe cabinets, is a good cost-effective choice. The use of E1 grade multi-layer solid wood panels for cabinets is also a good choice.
Let's enrich the photos of the past few days of work
After taking a nap at noon, I came to talk about how I chose the whole house custom company after seeing the domestic whole house custom ceiling (I sealed) Oupai and Hollyoaks. Opal and Hollywood in my opinion is similar to an integration center, the domestic high-quality plates, high-quality skin (that is, the outer surface of various plates), cutting edge banding technology, design, installation in one, at all levels to do their best, naturally the price is relatively high.
For a decorator like me who wants to use good plates and seal the edges, but does not have enough funds, I can't buy opal and Hollyoaks and the like.
I chose from good plates as the entry point. The top domestic plates are still very good, Daya, Dew River, red cotton, Furen, Fuqing, baby rabbit, etc. are very famous, the companies are also in the plate waterproof fire prevention and deformation prevention and environmental protection and nail grip and other aspects of continuous optimization, so far, choose the top ten brands of plate I think I can be absolutely assured.
The plate brand is selected, and the next is the type of plate.
At first, I really couldn't understand why they were all wooden boards, as well as multi-layer boards, large core boards, fingerboards, granular boards, eucalyptus boards, hexiang boards, wood incense boards, and so many names (solid wood boards were not considered because of insufficient budget), and later found that there was indeed a difference. Let me talk about the difference between these plates from a layman's point of view.
Multi-layer board, should be used so far more plates, as the name suggests, is a thin sheet with glue attached together, at present I have heard of environmental protection grades have E0 level and E1 level. Multi-layer board is more environmentally friendly, grip nail force and waterproof also have certain advantages, the disadvantage is that it is easy to deform, it is not recommended to be applied to the door panel.
Granular board, is to press the wood into debris, and then use glue to press into a board, the original sound is garbage wood chips + a large number of glue composed of garbage products, but in recent years for the management of granular boards more stringent, with glue both the amount and type have a very strict control, so the environmental protection level of the granular board can even reach the top ENF level. The advantage is that it is not easy to deform, the disadvantage is that it is not too waterproof, and it is best not to apply it to the kitchen, balcony, bathroom cabinet and other places that are easy to seep water.
As shown in the picture, the skin attached to the outside of the plate has many colors.
Let's talk a little bit about other plates. Hexiang board, I heard that it is Wanhua Group, with straw crushed plus aldehyde-free glue pressed, similar to the particle board of wood chips replaced by straw, I heard that there is a faint wheat aroma?
The wood incense board, the red cotton board is launched, the whole piece of wood is cut into thin slices like a pencil sharpener, and then the aldehyde-free MDI glue is added, and the rice shape is paved and pressed. I think it's somewhere between a multi-layer board and a granular board.
Large core plate, not touched.
MDF, a plate that will not be considered at all, is similar to being made of powder and glue in my opinion, and I heard that it is not very waterproof.
After talking about the plate, let's talk about how I chose the whole house customization company. Because the quotation of the large top integrated whole house customization company exceeded my budget, I directly looked for which whole house custom small companies were using these good domestic plates. At this time, the baby rabbit came into my consideration. Baby Rabbit is easy to install on the other side of the highway intersection, which is the whole house customization of Baby Rabbit, and the brand of Baby Rabbit is also used. There are also many people around who choose baby rabbit easy to install as a whole house customization.
But!!! The first time I went to think that I was in Wandian City, I was stunned to look for half a day and did not find it, and I was directly attracted by other stores in Wandian City.
The next day, I went to look for it again, and as soon as I entered the door, I was attracted by other stores in Wandian City, for two consecutive days... I didn't find the baby rabbit, and later I heard that this shop was not open in Wandian City.
Then the next Saturday I went to the bunny baby highway intersection, but !!!
I went at 1:40 p.m., the store door didn't open, I called and asked the owner of the baby rabbit, he said they had a lunch break until two o'clock...
I was worried, and when I looked up, I saw that the baby rabbit had five big words written on the side of the big five words "red cotton plate".
Come and go, three o'clock to go to the red flower lake to ride, wait for the baby rabbit lunch break is better to go to the red cotton to see, people are also well-known brands.
Then we went into this house that looked a bit simple on the outside and was also very simple inside the red cotton whole house customization.
(Speaking of which, in fact, I still have an idea, the decoration is actually very fateful, such as I seriously look for the baby rabbit, looking for three times did not go to one time, red cotton actually became the first choice we decided to find a whole house customization company.) ）
Although, I still recommend the baby rabbit, although I have not yet touched the baby rabbit, but my colleagues have installed it is said to be OK.
I feel that there is a long way to go, and I am ready to seize the time to pick up the post, I hope my post can help you a lot!
The author declares that there is no interest in this article, and welcomes reasonable exchanges and harmonious discussions among value friends