The Paper's reporter Cheng Xiaojun
The impression of the Russian director Aleksandr Sokurov has always stayed in the documentary "Dialogue with Solzhenitsyn". He followed the master as if he were a faithful disciple. Of course, this impression may also be an enhancement from his non-fiction works, such as "Russian Ark", "Mother and Son", "Second Hell", etc.
It seems to me that Sokolov did not achieve the ultimate fascination with the relationship between image and philosophy, as his teacher Tarkovsky did. Rather, it is like a skilled craftsman who integrates the various forms of Russian art and finally presents it in a suitable visual language, allowing the audience to rediscover those works. At a time when not only the film, but life itself is moving forward like a hot wheel, such a director who is accustomed to looking back and precipitating is very rare. It was quite surprising to see his name prominently listed in the master class of this year's Shanghai International Film Festival.
Two famous people talk: Russian director Alexander Sokolov (left) and Italian filmmaker Marco Muller
In the master class, the dialogue with director Sokolov was none other than Marco Müller, who has run several international film festivals in Venice and served as a jury member of the Shanghai International Film Festival this year. On the eve of the opening of the film festival, I had the opportunity to interview this promoter of Chinese films to the world, and I learned that he was also the Bole director of Sokolov. Out of admiration for Sokolov, Marco Muller also tried many times to raise investment for his works, and personally served as a producer for two films, "Moro God" and "The Sun". Sokolov's film of the same name, based on Goethe's masterpiece Faust, won the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival, which was Marco Muller's last year as artistic director of the Venice Film Festival.
In 2011, Sokolov won the Golden Lion at the Venice Film Festival for Faust
Talking about this friend who has known him for nearly three decades, Marco Muller said that Sokolov is usually very introverted and does not like to attend public events, so it is really valuable to participate in the master class of the Shanghai International Film Festival through remote video.
Sokolov, on the other end of the line, sits in front of the poster for his work Mother and Son
Sokolov on the other end of the line sat in front of the poster of his work Mother and Son, and the solid youth in "Dialogue with Solzhenitsyn" has become an old man with gray hair, the beard on his mouth has disappeared since I don't know when, and the disciple has been carved by time as a master. Under the auspices of Shayan at the Shanghai Theater Academy, Sokolov talked about his friendship with Marco Muller, his understanding of cinema, the most common images of death in his works, and the new works of newcomers.
Stills from "Dialogue with Solzhenitsyn"
Although the entire master class lasted less than two hours, Sokolov's artistic accumulation was already evident, and it was not limited to Russian art. In the opening greeting to the audience, he mentioned: "Visual arts are very different from other technologies and sciences, and what binds us together is only our love of art." The Chinese poet Wang Wei saw art as an epiphany, a way of thinking about life; in this way, we can achieve mutual understanding through the pursuit of art. I'm sure many of you here are thinking about similar philosophical things. As for the current development of film and the views of Chinese films, he does not intend to blindly praise, but frankly expresses his views.
Alexander Sokolov
【Dialogue】
Ark of Russia blurs the boundaries of time and space
Shayan: First of all, I would like to ask both of you, how did your friendship begin?
Sokolov: The two of us felt like we'd known each other for the rest of our lives. I felt like we were brothers, he was an older brother, I was a younger brother. I would like to quote an old Chinese saying to illustrate our relationship: "The road knows the horsepower, and the day sees the hearts of the people" – our friendship has stood the test of time and people's hearts. When he first extended the hand of friendship to me at my most difficult time, it was still in the Soviet Union, when my situation was somewhat complicated and the work could not be screened publicly. Marco was the first person to push me into the world and allowed my work to be screened at European film festivals such as Rotterdam, Pesaro and Locarno. In this sense, he can be said to be my European godfather.
Marco Mueller in a master class
Marco Mueller: The first thing I want to emphasize is that, in my opinion, Alexander Sokolov's films have a documentary orientation that reinforces the concept of time and space. The first time I watched his movie was like that. That was in a very special situation. In the 1980s, the Soviet Film Association (also known as the "Workers' Association of the USSR") had a committee for the coordination of conflicts, which was responsible for re-translating previously shelved works, most of which were eventually rehabilitated.
At the time, I was the director of the Pesaro Film Festival in Italy, and Andrei Bravo of the Soviet Filmmakers Association would often hand me the works they had rehabilitated. One day, Bravo told me that a young director had made several medium-length works; they were supposed to be documentaries, but tended to be poetic. I immediately expressed my interest, and then I saw the Viola Sonata – Shostakovich, and thus I found Alexander Sokolov.
Poster of the Viola Sonata – Shostakovich
So I immediately decided to take some of his novellas, including Sonata viola, to the pesaro Film Festival in 1984 for world premieres. I also told the director of the Locarno Film Festival at the time: You must pay attention to this young director, who will soon make his first feature film. In 1987, the Locarno Film Festival selected his feature film debut "The Voice of a Lonely Human" to participate in the main competition unit, and won the Bronze Leopard Award.
Stills from The Voice of a Lonely Man
Marco Mueller also tried several times to raise investment for Sokolov's work, and personally served as a producer for two films, "Moro God" and "The Sun". The picture shows the poster of "Sun"
Shayan: Sokolov's "Russian Ark" was shot in a one-shot way, achieved great success around the world, and also triggered a movie-watching boom among Chinese film fans.
Sokolov: As a filmmaker, I have always had an ideal of realizing the idea of the great pioneer Tarkovsky and making a feature film that doesn't need to be edited. As far as I know about contemporary Chinese cinema, many directors prefer to use montage techniques to present stories through editing techniques, but I personally don't like this method very much.
Stills from Ark of Russia
I am very much advocating the sense of freedom of film art, and I do not want to force the audience to accept the work by means of editing. One shot means unity of time and space, which requires a very large shooting location. You may know the Hermitage Museum, the famous place in Petersburg. When I thought about making an unedited film, I naturally thought there, there was no other choice. Because the Hermitage Museum is a treasure trove of art treasures from all over the world, where a film can connect the whole world through art.
It is also important to note that we should look back on the past with a kind of kindness. Sometimes, when we reminisce about the past, we are often reluctant, but I still want to convey a kind of kindness through this film, a kind of gratitude for the past.
Shayan: So, as Sokolov's original Bó Lè and later collaborator, how does Marco Muller view Ark of Russia?
Mark Muller: As I said earlier, all of Sokolov's works illustrate his personal conception of time and space. Arguably, he created a new— and shouldn't say experimental — cross-era film. Sokolov has made a series of short and medium works called "Elegy", and it seems to me that all his works are connected together as a set of grand elegy.
Shayan: The Russian Ark is very free in time, shuttling between ancient and modern times, and in space there is a very surprising scheduling. We're interested in how you're thinking about completing the narrative structure of the film in a one-shot way.
Sokolov: It's true that the film doesn't follow a linear narrative. For film art, the consistency of time and space is one of its characteristics, which is different from other art forms such as literature, painting, and architecture. Time and space presented in Ark of Russia are a whole, and the boundaries between time and space must be blurred and the two must be unified.
In "The Second Layer of Hell", the protagonist has to face the sudden death of his father
Only art can tap into the value of death
Shayan: We can find a very deep literary accumulation in director Sokolov, and his images may be therefore presented with a very unique aesthetic style. May I ask Marco Mueller, when you talk about movies, at what level did he impress you?
Marco Mueller: I think every time he makes a movie, it's a new exploration. He had told me in the past that he thought that cinema was still a baby and needed to be guided; after all, cinema was only a hundred years old, and literature had been precipitated for thousands of years. I don't know if he still holds this view now.
Sokolov: Indeed, Marco and I were always discussing what kind of art cinema is, what stages it goes through, and whether we can even call cinema art. Marco takes the exact opposite view, and we often argue about it.
From an artistic point of view, the film contains huge energy; but from the perspective of content, the film is still relatively weak, and most of the basic things are presented. The movie is like a little naughty teenager, sometimes he may deliberately break the bowls and dishes in the house, or break the furniture, but we don't know what the real purpose of his actions is - personally, the film is in such a stage.
I don't think that cinema as an art has yet accumulated some of the most basic things, its ABC, and certainly not some sacred rules of other art forms. At present, its development speed is relatively rapid, which may be because the director's artistic life is limited, and the audience is also pursuing visual enjoyment. At present, the annual production of films is very large, including Chinese, European, Latin American and so on. I think we need to pursue speed when driving, but in life, we still need to be able to slow down and settle down.
Sayan: Speaking of literature, Sokolov's directorial career has also brought classics to the screen, such as Faust and "Rescue and Protection", based on Madame Bovary. Regarding the transformation of these two art forms, I would like to ask the two of you what they think.
Stills from Faust
Marco Muller: I think I can only talk about the relationship between Sokolov's work and literature. In fact, not only Faust and "Salvation and Protection", but also a considerable number of his works are based on literature. I think it's a kind of re-creation that he has achieved through film. He has always believed that literature is much more important than film, and he himself has adapted the film to provide a new dimension for interpreting literature.
Sokolov: I want to adapt a literary work that must meet several requirements. First, its plot must be very interesting; at the same time, it must stand the test of time; and it must reflect the author's own worldview. Sometimes we think of a film as great, not because it is how it is, but because the literature on which it is based is great. We film directors go to adapt a great work of literature, and a lot of times we are overconfident, because if we can't give it something new, it doesn't make sense. However, we film directors are often such an overconfident group of people.
Stills from Save and Protect
In fact, when I adapted Flaubert's Madame Bovary into "Save and Protect", I didn't want to express much, but only wanted to reflect the tragedy of the protagonist Emma. As for the philosophical thinking contained in literary works, we are afraid that we can only understand it by reading the original works. Compared with literature, film is inherently limited, and it can even be said that it is sometimes insignificant. But through the movie, you can still express people's attitudes towards things and the state of life. For example, Wang Wei, we may not be able to present his epiphany through movies, but we can present his life course.
Shayan: Marco Muller mentioned that you once said, "Art does not only come from life, but also from such a parallel world that is higher than life and independent of life." Can you elaborate on the connotation of this sentence again?
Sokolov: Honestly, I don't remember saying such a philosophical thing. In my personal understanding of art, I think art is always teaching us how to face death, to adapt to such a life end, and to think philosophically.
We can see on screen how a person dies. For example, a group of people will surround the dying person and hold the hand of the person who is dying; we often see the funeral or the permanent farewell to a person in the movie; or the plot of the first night after the funeral, which gives people a very heavy and oppressive feeling. Then, the person will go to sleep and wake up again, it is already a new day. Workers go to work, students go to school, peasants go to work, writers continue to write.
The most important task of the film is to help people wake up and survive in the face of death; it can also help us prepare for death. Only art can show a person's state of imminent death and tap into the value contained in it.
Shayan: Marco Muller and Sokolov have both made a lot of contributions to discovering and nurturing the new forces of cinema, and I would like to ask both of you to talk about this aspect.
Mark Muller: Here I would like to ask Director Sokolov a question. The 2019 Shanghai International Film Festival screened your feature film debut, Russian Youth, produced by you and directed by your student Alexander Zolotukhin. I know you've seen footage from his second feature film lately. Usually, a young director gives everything he has when making his debut. So, in general, the most difficult thing is actually to shoot a second feature film. So, what do you think of Zolotumkin's new work?
Young director Zolotukin's Russian Youth was produced by Sokolov
Sokolov: Marco is quite right, for young directors, the second film is really a very complicated job. I can introduce Zolotukin's second film here, which will soon be complete. The film revolves around a pair of twin brothers who are both studying at flight academy. It tells a more tender story, presenting the fates of two very similar but very different personalities. This work is not a war film, but about the trials of everyday life; it is a film that is completely different from "Russian Youth", and Zolotukin has done a very good job. Many of my current teaching students are also involved in this work.
"Moscow Elegy" with Director Tarkovsky as the protagonist
Shayan: Director Sokolov is very happy to talk to young filmmakers, and there is still a little time left for the audience to ask questions.
Audience: Director Sokolov, you are not from the class of film, you studied history at Gorky University before, but I can feel a very deep oriental freehand charm in your films, and ask how this film aesthetic is formed. Is it by watching a lot of movies, or by delving into the art of painting, or by practicing exploration?
Sokolov: My answer may disappoint you. You mentioned "a lot of movies" and in fact, I rarely watch movies myself. What has a great influence on me is actually the exchange of some art forums that I participated in when I was young, as well as music, painting, traditional folklore, etc. As for the "oriental freehand" you mentioned, I think it may have something to do with my influence on Russian classical literature and the literary works of the 20th century.
Finally, I would like to talk about my feelings about Chinese films at the moment. I think some of the Chinese movies I've seen recently may be too dynamic. Chinese a people who are good at philosophical thinking, but unfortunately this is not very rich in current movies.
Editor-in-Charge: Zhang Zhe
Proofreader: Luan Meng